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I hadn't really thought about applying to a creative writing PhD program. I was thinking more along the lines of an actual English literature research PhD. I'd love to do a PhD with a creative dissertation, but what would be the job prospects after getting out of that kind of program? Would I be at a disadvantage? Such good info.

Hello, all! I was contacted by a friend from undergrad yesterday who wanted to get back in touch. I recently completed an M.Div. at Vanderbilt and between that any the angry, sanctimonious rants I post on Facebook about the hypocrisy within my faith (with which he agrees), he thought it could be helpful to him to reestablish communication, as he finds himself in that chaotic place between belief (of a Christian variety) and non-belief. Anyway, he asked me how I made it past what seems to be the bumping point for everyone: the Bible. He didn't know how it could be a foundation for one's faith without its inerrancy, yet he couldn't affirm its inerrancy. My own theology of the Bible is a low(er) one, mostly because I am cautious of bibliolatry. I want to recognize the limitations of human knowing, including the fact that human language is insufficient to fully capture God. However, I also want to affirm what we do know (i.e. through science) and not willfully ignore things that conflict with my sacred text while attributing it all to a "test of faith." I don't see a problem with this, but I do see the room for a slippery slope: "How can you not eventually rule out the whole thing altogether?" or "How can you not say Beethoven's 9th or Martin Luther King Jr's 'I Have a Dream Speech' were inspired by God?" I could easily say that Beethoven and MLK Jr were inspired by God, but that to me doesn't mean their works serve as the foundation of the faith. My friend is a philosopher, though, where I was a religion major. He needs something more systematic than a phone call to sink his teeth into. I told him how about in my church (the Episcopal Church) we have the three-legged stool of scripture, tradition and reason that check and balance one another, and so beyond reading I encouraged him to experience the way scripture is used liturgically, etc. so that he's not leaning too hard on one leg. Anyway, all this to say, can anyone recommend some good reads on theologies of the Bible? Most of what I got in divinity school came from online articles that were taken from books, but the theologians and the titles of the articles all run together in your mind when you don't have hard copies. Marcus Borg's Reading the Bible Again for the First Time suits the issue at hand, but my friend is an intelligent fellow and I think Borg targets that book at a lay audience.

Hi, everyone! I've heard that getting accepted into joint programs is difficult and that a lot of universities frown on it. I'm not entirely sure why. To me, the two seem fairly compatible. I think a sound education in literature (i.e. literary theory) and intensive research would supplement one's writing skills. I also think it's easier for people who write themselves to understand literature. That doesn't seem too "out there" to me. Are there any respectable universities that offer joint programs (and don't just do so in name, i.e. the University of Iowa's doctoral program paired with the Writers' Workshop)? I ask this as a person who's always wanted to be a (creative) writer but who also enjoys research and feels his home is on a university campus. I hope my passions aren't mutually exclusive. I know a lot of people say, "You don't need an MFA to be a writer" but I'd love the structure and the feedback. On a side note: I am a Master of Divinity and religion is another one of my passions. I thought I'd pursue ordained ministry but after thoughtful discernment realized literature is the way I want to minister--and far more open to everyone. I think concerns about the economy and job market deterred me from pursuing a career in English more fully but at this point, I'd rather burn out trying to do what I love than doing what I thought others deemed practical. If anyone knows of good religion/literature programs (maybe some C.S. Lewis scholars, hmm? ) I'd be stoked to hear about them. Many thanks!

Hi everyone, I wanted to see if anyone had any experience studying at a master's or doctoral level in the United Kingdom. One reason I'm interested is because I'm an Episcopalian, so studying at theological colleges with Anglican affiliations would be much desired (I'm a total anglophile and might just stay over there if I found I myself at home). Another reason is because I feel called to plant a foot in the Church and a foot in the academy. I think a strong intellectual life and continued education is a must for clergy and Christian theological scholars have nothing to root their studies in without a life in the Church. Perhaps the central reason I'm interested, though, is because I referenced the work of several British scholars throughout my theology, ethics and senior capstone courses during my M.Div. program. My interests center on issues of gender and sexuality, ethics, violence and theologies of the cross. There are scholars on the faculty of Durham University, the University of Manchester and the University of Sheffield with whom I'd love to work. However, I'm not sure the degree to which U.K. doctoral programs differ from U.S. ones or the difficulty in being admitted/finding funding. Any advice or personal experiences would be welcome. Thanks for your time! P.S. If anyone can think of American universities with scholars who share my interests, please don't hesitate to suggest them. I plan on applying here, too, and am happy for any recommendations.

Hi, everyone! I am looking for joint MFA/PhD programs and thought I'd invite your recommendations. My top two choices at this point in time are Cornell and University of Iowa/Writers' Workshop. The Writers' Workshop is important to me because Flannery O'Connor went there and she is a great influence on my own work. I'd like to be for the Episcopal Church/Anglican Communion what she was for the Catholic Church (setting a high goal--I know). My main interests include religious literature and LGBTQ literature. I also have interests in British literature, Russian formalism, magical realism and children's literature. I also wanted to ask if my graduate GPA (3.58 for my Master of Divinity degree from Vanderbilt) would sink my application from the get-go. My faculty assured me that since it was a top university in the field of religion that that was actually a GPA to be proud of but I doubt it would appear that way to an outsider. I was, however, awarded "honors" over an A for all four classes in which such a grade could be received as well as on my master's thesis. Any advice for getting into these programs? Help a self-conscious, sometimes overly pessimistic brother out. Many thanks for doing so!

Well, I wouldn't mind a foot in the Church and a foot in the academy. I guess I'm thinking this way for a couple of reasons: 1) I have heard from countless professors that the job market for individuals with degrees in English is horribly small and as a result have been focusing on additional areas I am passionate about. 2) I have become deeply aware of a problem with circularity in the academy. English professors help create more English professors. The same problem often rises with regard to theology, but because there is a connection to the Church there is a better opportunity for theory to engender praxis. I think in my heart of hearts I was hoping that admissions committees would view my desire to see my learnings bear real, tangible fruits in the world outside of the ivory tower (especially the Church in my case) as a good thing. I wasn't expecting to learn that English faculty/admissions committees want everyone to stay primarily within the academy with the job market the way it is, just creating more English scholars to fight for ever-decreasing space within English departments. I would have a real interest in teaching literature classes at a seminary or divinity school, though--and I would definitely like to publish. But I'm someone who needs to get his hands dirty. I have a heart for social justice and fighting for the wellness of the underprivileged. I think reading and writing are wellsprings of empowerment for marginal communities, but you don't tend to find them within the academy. I don't know who we're helping if English scholars remain a somewhat detached and exclusive community. I hope that made sense. It's 2am here and I've lost my senses at this point.

I am grateful for your response. I didn't take anything you said as an insult, which may be in part due to your courteous statements about how you did not intend for it to be received as such. I am a horrible offender when it comes to sending text messages that come across as sour so I am well aware how distorting technology can be! I have several friends in doctoral programs for English and they have often told me their programs tend to be populated by atheists and agnostics. I thrive on diversity and would be perfectly comfortable amongst them, unless I were to suffer direct attacks for being a person of faith (I find that the rhetoric from some atheists often sounds so similar to infuriating rhetoric from fundamentalists). I may check into some divinity schools. It may be the case that religious literature programs for those entering into ordained ministry/theological academia are offered by seminaries, divinity schools and graduate departments of religion rather than English departments. However, I thought my MDiv might be a boon when applying to English programs because I doubt many other applicants would have one (and I know some schools appreciate interdisciplinary interests!). I'll keep up the research and maybe seek additional advice from former English and religion professors. Thanks so much for your help!

I'm recently graduated from Vanderbilt University with a Master of Divinity and am considering next steps. I'd love to find a PhD program in religion and literature. However, I'm unsure whether I should pursue a PhD requiring a more academic dissertation or one with a creative dissertation. Several professors have encouraged me to enroll in a program for creative writing but I know a degree isn't required in order to publish, so if it is more vocationally sound to pursue the academic degree perhaps I should. My end goal is not to become a full-time tenured English professor. I am recently confirmed in the Episcopal Church and intend to use the next few years immersing myself in the life of the Episcopal Church before entering the ordination process. I would love to teach English adjunct, but my main desires are to a) write fiction from within the Church teach my parishioners about religious literature and help them plumb the theological and philosophical depths of literature c) enhance my own and others' practices of lectio and scriptio divina. My interest areas include: * British literature * French literature * Russian literature * Existentialism (especially Christian existentialism) * Magical realism * Anglican authors (especially C.S. Lewis and T.S. Eliot) * Children's literature * LGBT literature Here are some questions I have for your consideration: - Would a PhD requiring an academic or creative dissertation be preferable for an aspiring priest/fiction writer? - Should I consider an MFA over and against a PhD? - Are there any universities someone with my background, goals and interests should consider? (I would love a program that is well thought of but also am interested in one with good funding) I am most grateful for any advice you may offer. Thank you.

Hi everyone, I've recently graduated with my MDiv (Master of Divinity) from Vanderbilt and am considering options. Since undergrad, I've been drawn to the areas of English and religion (I majored in English, writing, philosophy and religion and minored in global studies). I feel deeply called to ordained ministry but am seeking to root myself in a progressive diocese for several years before starting the ordination process. Several of my theology professors encouraged me to enroll in an MFA or a PhD in English program in the meantime, so I thought I'd seek the advice of my peers. I would like a career that allows me a foot in the Church and a foot in the academy. I would also like to assist my future parishioners and audiences outside the Church in plumbing the depths of texts outside canonical scripture (i.e. Dante's Divine Comedy, the writings of C.S. Lewis, and even works that aren't overtly "Christian"). I want to write creatively from a space within the Episcopal Church. However, rather than writing dense theological essays, I find it much easier to lay down my theology by way of the fictional narrative. I want my writings to challenge the easy answers and dogma offered by much of today's Christian literature. I also admire the practices of lectio divina and scriptio divina and want them to make them more accessible for others. My areas of study include Christian social ethics, constructive Christian theology, LGBT issues and existentialism. Anyway, after all this rambling, here are some questions I have: * Considering my vocational goals, would an MFA, a PhD in English literature or a joint MFA/PhD program (I know Cornell has one but am not sure how common this is) be more suitable? * If a PhD program is best, should I seek one requiring a more academic dissertation or a creative dissertation? I would love to hone my creative writing skills but am also aware that one does not need a degree in creative writing in order to do this. * Are there any particular programs that would offer faculty with backgrounds in religious and philosophical literature? Or any in general that would be a good fit? * What programs would offer decent funding? I'd like a respectable program, but considering that I plan to primarily end up in ministry, do not want to get into too much debt. * Would my MDiv and interest in the intersection between religion and literature make me a unique candidate or prove problematic while applying? I know many schools are interested in students integrating disciplines but want to avoid any misconceptions.

Hi everyone, I've recently graduated with my MDiv (Master of Divinity) and am considering options. Since undergrad, I've been drawn to the areas of English and religion (I majored in English, writing, philosophy and religion and minored in global studies). I feel deeply called to ordained ministry but am seeking to root myself in a progressive diocese for several years before starting the ordination process. Several of my theology professors encouraged me to enroll in an MFA or a PhD in English program in the meantime, so I thought I'd seek the advice of my peers. I would like a career that allows me a foot in the Church and a foot in the academy. I would also like to assist my future parishioners and audiences outside the Church in plumbing the depths of texts outside canonical scripture (i.e. Dante's Divine Comedy, the writings of C.S. Lewis, and even works that aren't overtly "Christian"). I want to write creatively from a space within the Episcopal Church. However, rather than writing dense theological essays, I find it much easier to lay down my theology by way of the fictional narrative. I want my writings to challenge the easy answers and dogma offered by much of today's Christian literature. I also admire the practices of lectio divina and scriptio divina and want them to make them more accessible for others. My areas of study include Christian social ethics, constructive Christian theology, LGBT issues and existentialism. Anyway, after all this rambling, here are some questions I have: * Considering my vocational goals, would an MFA, a PhD in English literature or a joint MFA/PhD program (I know Cornell has one but am not sure how common this is) be more suitable? * If a PhD program is best, should I seek one requiring a more academic dissertation or a creative dissertation? I would love to hone my creative writing skills but am also aware that one does not need a degree in creative writing in order to do this. * Are there any particular programs that would offer faculty with backgrounds in religious and philosophical literature? Or any in general that would be a good fit? * What programs would offer decent funding? I'd like a respectable program, but considering that I plan to primarily end up in ministry, do not want to get into too much debt. * Would my MDiv and interest in the intersection between religion and literature make me a unique candidate or prove problematic while applying? I know many schools are interested in students integrating disciplines but want to avoid any misconceptions.

I wouldn't worry about financial aid, Windfish (also--is your name a Zelda reference?). When I switched programs, I had no financial aid difficulties as I was covered. I think this is normal for many div schools. In fact, I think my entering class may have broken the record for largest number of students switching degree programs. I think whether or not you have an MDiv (and from a mainline or denominational school) will create a different experience in different environments. While you would be respected for a degree at a top nondenominational school and prove that you can already conduct research and write at excellent levels, it is also the opinion of the theology department at my school that one cannot do theology unless one is rooted in a specific tradition. There are pros and cons in either case and--as I've often discovered--you can analyze and analyze your options, but your heart often does the better job of choosing.

I wholly agree. My one piece of advice for MTS students is to know what area they plan to study from the very beginning. Two years fly by much more quickly than one would expect and, depending on the academic advising at your school, it becomes very easy to come out with a transcript characterizing you as a jack of all trades but a master of none. Many of the MTS students I know seeking a second degree enrolled in courses that simply sounded fun and interesting, but afterward could not point toward a specific trajectory of their learnings. I think taking classes in which there was some common thread or unifying theme would also provide an exceptional foundation from which to begin one's thesis.

I started out on the MTS track (also having intentions to pursue a PhD) but initially switched programs when I discovered A.) the MDiv required more practical application B.) despite the MTS being presented as an academic degree, in today's competitive climate MDiv's tend to be held in higher regard since the degree has been around longer, is more structured, and requires more hours. Most MTS students I know had to pursue a second master's degree, while several of the MDivs got accepted into doctoral programs on their first attempt. I also want to lift up the MDiv because it was in this program I discovered I did not want to continue onward in the academy but instead pursue ordination. In my eyes it is an extremely well-rounded program that enters your heart space and your head space and helps you discern to what realm(s) you are called. From my own experience, I don't think you can diminish your prestige by going to a school within your denomination. I have plans to do so myself. Most theological scholars think it's important both to be able to enter broad conversations on religion while also being firmly rooted in a tradition.

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Hi everyone, As a progressive Christian I'm interested in finding some fiction somewhere between C.S. Lewis and Jose Saramago. I tend to prefer European literature over American (especially British) but, as an example, take Flannery O'Connor who was an ardent Catholic but a staunch advocate of racial equality. Her stories "Temple of the Holy Ghost" and "The Misplaced Person" also question our society's treatment of sexual and religious minorities via Christian symbolism. Anyone have any recommendations?

Hi everyone: As of last month I'm graduated with my MDiv--however, my vocational plans (as they are wont to do) got switched around a bit. I went to div school thinking I wanted to do PhD work and then got bitten by the ministry bug. This final year--after much discernment--I decided that I felt called to the Episcopal Church (instead of the UMC in which I grew up) and am in the confirmation process. This means that I will probably need to get a Certificate in Anglican Studies to place me on the ordination track. I'm thus looking for a job that can pay rent and put food on the table until I complete confirmation and get a glowing enough recommendation from my clergy to advance me into this certificate program. I have not had much luck thus far, despite that my degree comes from a top-ranked university in my field. Likely because a lot of my experience is in the area of LGBTQ rights and my degree is in ministry. I also have experience as an administrative assistant, working in a library and as a chaplain. Any thoughts or advice? Should I look for jobs on campus at my old university? What jobs can I make an MDiv look suited for? Are there any websites that are more helpful than others with job listings? I'm starting to feel the financial pull because--since I graduated in December--I'm on a month-to-month payment plan at my apartment complex and it is blood-pressure-raisingly expensive. You have no idea how grateful I am for whatever help you can provide.

Hi all, I'm about to graduate from divinity school and I'm thinking about all the interest my loans are accruing. It's top-ranked and it's private so it's not particularly cheap. I came with the intention of going to a PhD program but I in no way presently feel ready for that pressure/intellectual endeavor. I'm considering ministry to test the waters for the ordination process (I might pursue an Anglican studies certificate if I get good funding and think ordination is the right way to go). However, I can't help but think that repaying loans needs to be one of my primary concerns while finding the right job. Any former seminarians/div school students have any tips, tricks or advice that might prove helpful?

Any opportunity to read more Beauvoir is an opportunity I will take. I don't tend to read sci-fi literature, but perhaps it's time I delve back into that genre. I was on a Battlestar Galactica kick for a good while (robots that look like humans? space age religious pluralism? yes, please!) and it consumed my life. I've heard of The Sparrow. I think reading your post is a sign I should read it. Tolkien--always welcome.

I try to respond within the week, though this means added pressure as you get closer to the weekend (but hopefully more free time with which to reply). I think in most cases, it depends on the individual's current situation. I used to be an eager beaver with e-mail replies because I had the time and the energy. This semester, my workload has maxed out and I've been less able. Are you early on in grad school? I doubt it will be long before you stumble across professors who take forever to respond--if they respond at all. We have a nice mix of Type A and Type B personalities at my school and it doesn't take long to figure out which professors fall under those categories.

Thanks for your question, Eigen. It's a master's level program but the class isn't in my area of focus and the professor isn't a regular member of my graduate department's faculty, so thankfully I am less concerned than I would normally be about that. I'm a total goober when it comes to classes where the relationship with the professor is important to me, though. I once staggered across campus to my department's building with a skyrocketing fever and the stomach flu just to turn a provide a hard copy of my paper to a professor because I thought it seemed more professional than just e-mailing it as an attachment. Wah wah waaah

So... I've been having some severe health problems this semester (starting fall semester), a symptom of which is insomnia that sometimes prevents me from sleeping at all up to two days in a row. Attendance isn't required on lecture days in one of my classes, let's call it Humanities--only in discussion groups--and I've missed several Humanities lectures due to doctor's appointments as well as hesitance to drive after no sleep. I've been able to attend all of my Humanities discussion groups, I do all the readings so I participate in group discussion eagerly, and I've made high As on all of my papers thus far and a 98% on my midterm, so my absences don't seem to be affecting my grades. However, I can't help but feel slightly guilty about missing several classes. Do you all have classes where attendance isn't mandatory and if so, how do you gauge when absences are appropriate?

I appreciate whatever advice I receive and will take it into consideration. At this point, it's about finances as much as life goals (sad, sad, sad).

Thanks for the suggestions! They have definitely been noted. Also, for those who stumble upon this thread, keep the suggestions comin'...

Hi all, In undergraduate school I majored in English, writing, philosophy and religion. I became a fan back then of the existentialists, especially Camus. I think one of the reasons I love Camus is because he makes his philosophy incarnational through the fictional narrative--not being overly abstract and rhetorical. But I'm not an atheist/agnostic as Camus was. In divinity school, I discovered Flannery O'Connor, who does the same thing but with her Catholic theology--a theology which in many ways is unorthodox but in many others is more orthodox than traditional Catholic theology. Can anyone recommend any other good theologians or philosophers (mainly theologians) who convey their messages via fiction writing? Christian existentialism is of particular interest to me.

It's good to know my stats appear very good. I'm honestly a bit embarrassed about my 3.5 GPA. I wish the four Honors credits were factored into it, but alas--it is not so. I have also considered a PhD program in English/writing (focused on religious literature) or a PhD program in philosophy (existentialism with an emphasis in Christian existentialism) may be easier to achieve since my master's degree is from a divinity school and I hear universities nowadays appreciate interdisciplinary studies. I'm just a little frightened that, no matter what, that 3.5 will show up to prevent me from getting into a top tier school. I think most of this fear is based on a friend who, when she met with a professor to discuss doctoral programs, related her GPA of 3.6 to which he replied, "You're no academic superstar."