adollarninetynine

lol no you didn't kid

Why are you so upset? What he said are facts plain and simple. No need to blow a gasket over this. You just proved my point. Let's not forget about drop outs? You are seriously using that as your evidence for your assertion? What is next, a link to Wikipedia showing HKS alumni who are famous? Seeing how you are going to be going to a public policy school try to remember correlation, causation, and sample size. Rich kids? What rich kids? What kind of personal attack is that? I am not rich at all. These are the kinds of irrational responses that I am talking about that show immaturity. Your HKS degree is not going to do anything if you can't even spout out words that make any kind of sense. Actually, a big part of HKS is the social aspect. Networking is the main way to get the best jobs, and the social aspect is the reason why the HKS brand is strong. If you are going to a professional school to "learn in the classroom", you are sadly idealistic. Also it is "I could not care less".

As a HKS student, it is unfortunate but HKS is indeed at the bottom. I think it comes from the fact that HKS is the easiest by far to get into compared to HBS, HLS, and undergrad. The students with the top grades and academics go to HLS, the students with the top personalities and career achievements go to HBS. The students with mediocre grades and work experience go to HKS (relatively). As a dual degree student, I met a lot of smart HKS students with fine achievements but there were also a ton of students who were immature and unimpressive intelligence wise. This happened far less at my other program. You would be kidding yourself if you chose HKS over HBS if you got into both and wanted to pursue a career in public service. Applicants need to understand that a top MBA program like HBS will get you to where you want to go in public service faster and easier over HKS. Lastly, the assertion that people used HKS as a backdoor to HLS or HBS is absurd. I don't know where that came from because those programs would not be impressed nor would care that you went to HKS. There is a reason why HKS admits 100% of students from HBS and HLS while the other two do not give any bump to HKS students.

I am in the MPP program in one of the fellowships (don't want to get anymore specific since it would be easy to out me) and currently about to finish my degree. Shoot away.

This is exactly what I am talking about. So full of entitlement and presumptuousness. You bashed a school and now you are saying that Harvard needs a reality check because they wouldn't give poor little old you a scholarship. This is considering the fact that you didn't even apply to see if they would give you money. If you have $50 K in debt from undergrad while coming from a poor family, you made some bad calls friendo. You say you are not a whiny high school kid, but there you go again. Seriously, who still says stuff like "I don't want to be around people like you". You are mad because I just stated my opinions and you can't respond in a rational manner without turning to personal attacks? You really think everyone at WWS will be to your liking or everyone at HKS are "people you don't want to be around". These kinds of sweeping generalizations are very illogical. Lastly, what was the point of the Park Ave. reference? Are you trying to humble brag in the same way you humble bragged about your nonexistent connections to HKS and that you would have been admitted 100%? Just makes you look more irrational if you would have been admitted 100%. MPPgirl, you are right in that everyone has a right to apply where ever they want. I was just responding to this person because they were bashing a school by calling them "assholes". I wasn't happy with everything about HKS, but bashing a school for something like that is a bit harsh.

You know you wouldn't be happy because of a school's financial aid policy? I am all for criticizing HKS's lame financial aid program, but that kind of overreaching statement seems like pure bitterness. Like the poster above me said, every school operates to make profits. It is just that HKS is more honest about it. WWS's program is great and probably the best of its kind but there is a reason why they only have a class of about 60-70. I am sorry but you reek of entitlement judging by your statement that HKS is "the asshole" because you don't think they would give you money. No school owes you anything especially if you didn't even apply. This goes double when you are applying for a professional graduate program. Also, what the hell is living with your heart and passions? You can't live without your heart because of school debt? So you only want to serve the public only if you have little debt. You sound like a high school teenager applying to undergraduate programs.

It won't increase your chances that much. After all, you are still the same applicant you were this cycle with no improvements in work experience, grades, test scores, or recommendations. The only thing added would be an additional degree that top MBA programs wouldn't really care about. Even HLS students don't receive a noticeable boost at HBS. Same with UPenn Law students at Wharton. The only way you are getting in since it seems like you got shut out this cycle is significant improvements to your work experience or test scores if they are low.

Makes sense from a certain perspective, but I don't understand why you would not at least apply to see if you received any merit aid even if HKS is a cheapskate in that area. Sounds like if HKS gave you significant aid and you got in it would still help you with your career goals if you put aside your pride.

This is spot on. It is way harder to get into top MBA programs than HKS. The caliber isn't even close. This is not to say that HKS students aren't capable, but they do not have the work experience to compete with top MBA students and they do not have the academic credentials to compete with top law school students. Unfortunately, the last part of this quote is credited. The difference in quality between my law school classes and classmates and HKS students and classes was huge. But you cannot take away from HKS because it would be hard for any program to not be looked down upon when you are next to HBS, HLS, and the college.

This is common knowledge at every single top law school that the only thing that matters is your LSAT/GPA. Yale and Stanford are the only schools that require top softs and you still have to have the LSAT/GPA to get in. By softs I am talking about Rhodes Scholars and other prestigious softs or military service. Getting into HKS is not one of them unfortunately. The dude in the blog got into Yale because he had the proper GPA/LSAT plus valuable work experience or something that set him apart. Trust me, him getting into HKS was not a major factor for law school admissions purposes. Why would it be easier to get into a school where the standards are way higher than HKS? HKS is hard to get in by MPP/MPA standards, but in comparison to HLS/YLS and HBS, it is vastly easier to get into. Also, the term "Harvard material" is a joke. A HLS student is not the same caliber as a Harvard Master's student in the school of education. I am sure HKS may help if you are applying to a lesser law school outside the top 14 or so, but it won't help you at the very top. If you don't believe me, just do some research on google on law school forum boards.

No it won't be any easier. HKS, although a top MPP/MPA program, is nowhere near the level of HBS and HLS. Usually it is the opposite way around where YLS and HLS Law students come into HKS without breaking a sweat. Law school admissions only looks at your GPA/LSAT, and the business school has no incentive to admit HKS students since it is the more prestigious program. FYI I am doing the dual degree program with HKS and one of the law schools you mentioned.

I think you guys are not giving yourselves enough credit. They are not that obsessed with high test scores or GPAs. Looking at past admission cycles, they really do look at the whole package. Unless you have abysmal scores, you are not going to be out of the running at all.

do you seriously need me to explain why the harvard kennedy school is not on par with harvard law school or harvard business school? lol...

an education at SIPA or HKS is not even close to the quality and opportunities available at the respective business schools and law schools. you are kidding yourself if you think so.

i would say the SOPs of posters on this board would tend to be on the right side of the curve. the fact that posters here check this page often and have come here for advice on applications shows that people here are a self-selected group of top applicants.

my friend just got admitted to Harris as well with 15K

lol if you actually think syracuse is better than WWS and HKS, you are in for a rude awakening. people from syracuse always bring up the #1 US news rankings to justify their decision to "choose" maxwell over WWS/HKS (they got rejected in truth). maxwell, although it is a good school, is nowhere near the top of the list when it comes to elite MPP/MPA programs. i have yet to see anyone who has turned down WWS for maxwell or has chosen HKS over maxwell with funding between relatively equal.

even though columbia has more lay prestige, i would go with the nyu mpa. from all accounts, columbia's standard mpa is a cash cow to the fullest and i would have to assume that its environmental mpa would be even worse seeing how new it is. if you are worried about name value, i would not worry too much. within the industry of public service, wagner is well respected. of course you should make this decision after you receive funding information, but if you get an equal amount of money, you should go to wagner.

as smith said, if you want cheap prestige, apply for a masters in east asian studies or any liberal arts masters at harvard or columbia as long as you don't mind paying out of your butt. however, i think i know what you are going through in terms of asian people not recognizing anything but ivies+stanford but i find it hard to believe people in your field would not know what schools in their area is good. for example, one of my friends went to michigan for law school (he was chinese) and although lay people there did not know how good michigan's law school was, the lawyers there knew and he did not seem to have a problem finding good work. on the other side, i also had another friend who got a master's in east asian studies from harvard who would get "wows" from people on the street, but had tons of trouble finding proper employment because insiders knew that her degree was useless and took anyone with a pulse.

wow, i feel bad for you man. it is easy to assume organizations will operate efficiently enough to do basic things like sending scores on time and such. you will still probably have some good options despite SAIS so keep your head up.

your best quant score was 670 and you had a score in the 500s and you are confused on why you got rejected from the top two schools? you should not expect to get into any top schools (especially if you have those scores) since the admissions process is a gamble for everyone. you see ppl get into HKS but not WWS and vice versa. bringing up your score probably won't make a difference but you gave them an additional reason to reject you with your scores (which are way below the norm for WWS/HKS) as for WWS, i think you are done with them for life since it is obvious they don't want your profile. as for HKS, you may have a chance in the future, but getting a 670 on the quant section and complaining about why you didn't get in is kind of immature. there are others with better profiles and grades than you that have been rejected so you should not be complaining. this thread reeks of entitlement since you have been offered an 80% scholarship at Fletcher and it still isn't enough for you. i can understand your feelings regarding prestige in asia, but you need to let it go and accept the fact that you are not getting in. you should be proud of Fletcher and go there with enthusiasm.

yes i think we agree on that point. CMU will give OP a good shot at getting intial interviews at firms not named MBB. the only point i was trying to make is that OP would be naive to take out six figures of debt to go to CMU just to get consulting since even the smartest have trouble landing those jobs. and with OP's background, his chance to outshine those others would be slim.

capable does not equal a decent shot.

i am not talking about EVERY consulting job in this case. i was only referring to the consulting jobs (top ones) that will pay a high enough salary for the OP to pay off his six figures of debt. people who either already have consulting/business experiences and are pursuing MBAs have a huge advantage over MPP/MPA students. i am not doubting the quality of students who pursue a degree at WWS/HKS. i am saying students at these schools have tough odds because of their backgrounds. most of my classmates came from public sector/public service backgrounds and they did not have the experience and skills to get through the rigorous interview case studies and such. working on the hill or at a non profit makes it hard to develop some of the skills nedded to pass the case study interviews which is to be expected. even among top MBA students, the competition is fierce. i know i may sound like a douche on the internet but i really am not in real life. i just hate watching people make terrible decisions and waste their lives paying off huge debts. i have no ego and i don't take anything in life for granted. i will be the first to admit that luck played a huge factor in my getting into consulting since i know many applicants and classmates who are smarter than me who failed. the reason i probably sound elitist is becausei am describing consulting firm culture and consulting firms are elitist. that is just the nature of the industry. maybe i am so caught up in this topic since i have seen so many of my friends from school in horrible situations because they were so set on a certain job due to their debt burdens. school name plus resume gets you the interview but from there on out, the applicant is on their own. your friends who didn't come from WWS/HKS succeeded because their skillsets were better than other applicants regardless of school names.

when i said slim chances at a top program, i literally meant top. CMU is a fine program, but it is no WWS/HKS/SAIS and OP will not be attending a top program. soft skills do not get you interviews at consulting firms. i have seen consulting applications ask for GPAs, SAT scores, LSAT scores, and even GRE scores, but i have never seen one that asks for "soft" factors other than work experience. maybe even jaubrey can probably agree with me on this one. why would a firm take someone who cannot create/add value through marketable/practical skills? even if he was "noticed", he would still have to get through a set of difficult interviews depending on which firm he interviews with. a top consulting firm is not going to take a CMU grad with no marketable skills over another applicant from a better school. let me make it clear that i do not think OP has a 0% chance of getting what he/she wants. i think OP has a less than 10% chance. why anyone would gamble six figures on a less than 10% confuses me. i wouldn't even advise a HKS/WWS student to pursue school with consulting in mind from what i have seen on campus. when i said google searches, i meant for the OP to do some BASIC research. even BASIC research on OP's part would reveal what i've been trying to say. regardless, the main thing is that even those who disagree with me or dislike me in this thread seem to agree that consulting will be a ridiculously tough task for OP with his background.