marXian

I wouldn't worry about it. It's 0 credits and doesn't affect your GPA or your ability to graduate. I think even if there were a serious question about it, particularly with the school you've already been admitted to, they would probably ask you for an explanation. But I highly doubt anyone will feel the need. Typically, the primary reason that admission is provisional is because the school wants to make sure you actually graduate. They can only confirm that with official transcripts that show your degree posted. Sounds like you're graduating regardless of this little transgression, so I really wouldn't worry about it.

@cdbaca Yes, I would over-emphasize the importance of fit when it comes to continental v. analytic-leaning departments. It may be true, as Lux says, that a department like Princeton can "accomodate" you with an interest in continental philosophy, but even still, if you're not interested in Hegel or Nietzche (or German philosophy in general for that matter) and lean more toward the French side of the continental tradition, you will probably be frustrated. PhD work is specialized, so just becuase there are people interested in philosophy that is related to figures you're interested in (i.e. Nietzsche as a predecessor to Derrida), it doesn't mean that you'll be able to do a lot of work with those figures--you'll probably hit some road blocks. Of course, there are creative ways around this such as bringing in a reader from another institution, but how much leeway that gives you is really going to depend on the specific institution and faculty. If you like Derrida (or Wittgenstein, or Gadamer, or whoever) find faculy who do work with those people or who are really interested in taking on students who want to do work on those people (as in my case). Also, in terms of the job market, it's absolutely true that university jobs are scarce. But I don't think that necessarily limits you to only looking at top ten or top 25 programs. There are more factors than that. Getting in, even at an unranked program is extremely competitive. Way, way, way more people get rejected than accepted. I'm blown away by how many people apply to Fuller Seminary's PhD and get rejected--it's unranked and has very limited funding (I work with the Admissions office here). If you apply to second tier programs and get in somewhere AND they offer you money, there's really no reason not to go if you're really passionate about doing PhD work. The other thing to remember is that even people coming from those types of institutions can struggle to find work, so if you're weighing options, funding I think has to be one of the biggest factors. In my case, I got into NU and Claremont (MA philosophy/PhD Religion). NU offered me full funding plus a very competitive stipend guaranteed for five years. CGU offered me 25% per degree. Even though CGU is ranked and NU isn't (in religion specifically), there was no way, for me in my situation, that I could turn down that offer from NU. Some schools (Marquette for instance) give full funding to some but not others and are expensive to attend without funding. All of that should go into your decision, not just a school's ranking. Of course, f you have unlimited money, then go wherever you like! Another factor to remember as far as the job market goes is that attending a seminary for your PhD could potentially shut doors in terms of jobs at public/secular institutions. Many religion departments still cringe at the thought of a degree in Christian theology from a seminary. This of course doesn't apply to places like Princeton, Yale, etc.--just in considering second tier, unranked schools. If you go to a secular religion department, you'll probably be able to do the exact same work and write the same dissertation, but your PhD will make public/secular schools much more comfortable. The opposite certainly can be true (a PhD from a more liberal/progressive school shutting doors at seminaries/Christian universites, etc.) but I think those schools are more open to hiring progressive PhDs. I have a cousin who works in administration for Biola University here in California, and he said that they love to hire people from secular/progressive programs--the caviat is that you have to sign their statement of faith, haha. The type of institution at which you're thinking of teaching should definitely affect your decision. Finally, if you expand your idea of the type of teaching job you'd be willing to take following your PhD, the outlook might be a lot better than you might think when you finish. I'm not necessarily talking community college work (I've done it--it's tough.) There are a lot of private high schools, for instance, who pay A LOT for people with PhDs. It's certainly not a prestige booster and maybe won't help to improve your reputation in the academy, but if you're doing a PhD just for your ego, you're definitely going to end up being disappointed no matter where you end up teaching. It's usually possible to get a temporary teaching job like that and move up to a university later. Obviously some people here might see things differently--it's a good idea to weigh all the advice carefully, so posting this was smart!

I had not heard that either until this thread. Maybe there's no merit to it... Balatro, where did you hear this?

#2 It may be that Duke is shutting down their ThD, but I don't know if it's because of the caliber of student. Fuller just hired Tommy Givens out of that program (he's still ABD), and he's literally brilliant. He's been at Fuller for two years now, and he's probably replaced (or is close to replacing) Marianne Meye Thompson as the favorite NT professor at Fuller--and he's only listed as an instructor because he hasn't defended his dissertation yet! I can't say enough good things about the guy. No one knows who he is right now outside of Duke and Fuller, but I'm positive he's going to make a big impact in the next decade. #9 Are you talking about Kevin Hart? There is no David Hart at UVa (at least not in the Religious Studies department.) I was at AAR in San Francisco last year, and the UVa people were AWESOME. Really fun to be around. I also spoke with Kevin Hart on the phone in the fall, and we talked for about 30 minutes about the program, my work, and my application. He was nothing but friendly and extremely helpful. I don't know anyone at UVa, so I obviously can't speak to his teaching, but what your saying would be incredibly surprising to me if true.

I'm not sure if you're looking to get into an MA program or a PhD, but I'll tell you what I know about PhD programs (which will probably translate to a school's MA assuming it has a terminal MA program). First and foremost, go onto websites of schools you've heard about and do some reading. Only you can really know what's going to spark your interest and what sounds like a good fit. Doing that kind of leg work is vital so you don't end up applying to a program that's just going to reject you outright because your interests don't line up. My experience in research programs this last year is that religion/theology departments are really open to philosophy (or any interdisciplinary study for that matter) and many have special tracks that are designed specifically for interdisciplinary interests. I contacted probably 20 schools and ended up applying to 10. Syracuse is a good program. I emailed back and forth with the DGS and a few other faculty this fall; all were very helpful and kind. I didn't get in, haha. Btw, Caputo no longer teaches there; he's emeritus (retired). So he's affiliated, but he's on the lecture circuit primarily now. I've been very interested in him as well the last few years. If you have the cash, Claremont Graduate University has a fantastic theology/philosophy faculty. Ingolf Dalferth would probably be someone up your alley. They have a program where you can earn an MA in philosophy along with your PhD in religion. Virginia is arguably the best religion department in the country. Kevin Hart is someone you'll want to connect with. It's one of the most competitive programs to get into, but Hart and the DGS, Paul Jones, were very helpful in giving me some insight into crafting my statement of purpose, and I think their advice helped me get into Northwestern. If you get into the MA though, you wouldn't be able to stay for the PhD (their MA program is terminal and doesn't lead to the PhD at UVa, but would probably give you a really good shot at getting in somewhere else just as good.) Marquette has at least one theologian deeply invested in postmodern philosophy (D. Stephen Long). The Jesuits are all about philosophy though, so you really can't go wrong at a place like Marquette or even Duquense for that matter. Both of those schools offer funding; Duquense's is guaranteed for 5 years for PhD students. Drew University has Catherine Keller, someone you should probably read anyway if you haven't already. Northwestern regularly accepts both undergrads and graduate students into its PhD program. The reason I chose Northwestern (aside from the full funding package) was that they have a unique program they call "Clusters." Each PhD student has the option to choose to be a part of an interdisciplinary cluster where you take courses in that interdisciplinary subject with students from different but related fields who are also interested in it (i.e. African Studies, Gender Studies, Classics, etc.) There's a Critical Theory cluster with classes in the literature, German, philosophy, and history departments that fall under it. The philosophy and religious studies departments at Northwestern have a great working relationship, and the philosophers I met when I went to visit in March seemed genuinely excited about my work and about me taking classes from them while I'm there. One last bit of advice is to be careful to make sure the faculty at the schools you're looking at are interested in continental philosophy if that's what you're doing. I've been working on an MA in theology at Fuller Seminary the last 2 years, and while I have a really great relationship with the primary philospher here (Nancey Murphy), she's heavily invested in the analytic tradition and really doesn't understand people like Caputo at all (because Derrida, et al. are a total mystery to her.) If you go to a Catholic school, that probably won't be an issue.

Hey all, I came out for a prospective weekend about a month ago. If you've never seen the campus, it's beautiful. I'm from California and had never seen any of the great lakes (I guess sort of like someone from the midwest having never seen the Pacific?) Anyway, I found out from people in my department that grad students (at least in the humanities) very rarely live in on campus housing because it's more expensive than other options and not as nice. It seemed like most grad students live in south Evanston or Rogers Park. My feeling is that Rogers Park is probably where you'll get the most bang for your buck. The areas off of the Thorndale, Granville, Loyola, and Morse El stops are nice. There's a NU shuttle service that runs from the Loyola stop directly to campus. It's also possible to take the El, but there's one transfer from the red to the purple line, and if you miss the train, you could be out on the platform for 20-30 minutes. So in the dead of winter, that could be a huge bummer. It's also possible to ride a bike (about 15ish minutes according to one student.) Most people I talked to did not have a car. They lived near El stops or the NU shuttle and used those or rode their bikes when it was warm. Some apartments don't have parking included, so you would have to pay extra for street parking. Some people I talked to even came with a car and decided to get rid of it after a month or so. Costs of places in Rogers Park range from about $700 to as much as $1500 and more. You can get a one bedroom, 600sq ft place for $750/mo, but there are places as big as 1500 sq ft for $1100/mo (which is an amazing deal, so that's certainly not the norm.) Also one note about The Apartment People: It's a free service BUT, I've heard they're pushy. Since they live off of commission, they want you to sign a lease asap. One girl I talked to said her guy was super annoyed when, after seeing one place, she wanted to keep looking--like he was mad she wasn't just taking the first place. Other people had either heard similar things or had similar experiences.

If you look at the financial aid page on their website, you can find all of the tuition info you'll need. I don't think there's a difference between international and domestic tuition. There are always grants, scholarships, etc., that you can apply for. I also know that CGU has an excellent record of placing their doctoral students in local community colleges beginning in their third year as they finish out their programs. So there are certainly options, though none are guaranteed. Don't know if this will make any difference, but I'm declining their offer, as I've officially accepted at Northwestern. CGU was offering me 50% tuition, but I don't know if that will necessarily go to anyone, be spread around, go to someone on the wait list, etc.

Yeah I hear you on that. They offered me 50%, which I guess is really the most anyone ever gets. I've heard that maybe one or two admits a year get full funding, but that could be myth for all I know. The only thing is that, for me, they would divide the 50% between each degree program (25% for the MA in philosophy, and 25% for the PhD in religion.) So... it would still cost me about 60k just in tuition to do the course work for both programs. Their course listings look AMAZING, but since I have an offer with full funding and a stipend elsewhere, I have to turn CGU down. They offered my friend 31% toward the PhD in Philosophy of Religion/Theology, and he got that notice a day or two after his acceptance. I would definitely expect to hear about funding in the next couple of days. I'm waiting until after I visit Northwestern this weekend to turn down the offer. But they'll probably pass my funding on to others once I do.

No one (except me!) has really asked about UVA, but I emailed Paul Jones on Monday just to make sure I'd been rejected (and I had). So if anyone else checking here is wondering, he said UVA sends out 'rejection' offers, but they are extremely rare and happen late in the term (May-ish). They've already made their initial 11 offers (you wouldn't know by looking at the results survey) and they've formed their wait list, so if you haven't heard yet... it's not going to be good news. Looks like I'm headed to Evanston!

I got an acceptance email with funding info on Friday for the joint MA/PhD philosophy/religion program. A friend of mine got his acceptance email on Monday (PRT) and found out about funding today. Not sure if they spread out the acceptance emails or what. But they've started notifying people of their acceptance for sure.

Publishing a paper is always a huge advantage but not required for getting in, especially to an American program. If you can work with a professor to write an excellent writing sample--something potentially publishable--that will still go a long way. I would also suggest that what you choose to focus on in the paper should perhaps depend on the location of the school (Europe v. U.S.) The reason is that European programs are going to want to see an actual dissertation proposal with you application in addition to a writing sample since their doctorates (for the most part) are purely research based degrees (i.e. no formal coursework.) So writing a paper with a professor could help you articulate a strong proposal and give the university an idea of what sort of dissertation you'll write. In the U.S., programs want to make sure you still have something to learn from them. Every program is different, but my experience in talking to professors is that they don't want to necessarily accept someone who is already at the dissertation stage because admit to their program is expected to take course work for their degree. U.S. programs want your dissertation to be shaped by your coursework. So you wouldn't necessarily need to worry that your writing sample reflect exactly what your dissertation work will focus on, but it could still help you formulate your statement of purpose. For me, my POI at Northwestern told me my writing sample was what made me stand out immediately and ultimately led to my acceptance, so I would tell anyone to not underestimate the importance of the writing sample.

It really depends on the program and your GPA. Do you have above a 3.75 GPA? Have you taken the GRE and are your scores in the 90th percentile or higher? I've done work at the graduate level in two different fields (English and Theology/Religion) and during both when I've spoken to competitive schools about PhD programs, they've said that an MA helps. It certainly can't hurt you--unless you finish with a really low GPA in which case PhD work probably isn't for you. UVA told me (for the religion department) that they don't even really consider applicants coming straight from their BA because they have too many other competitive applicants who are finishing an MDiv or MA at Harvard, Yale, or Princeton. In fact some schools, if they have a terminal MA program, don't allow their MA students into their PhD program. If you're applying to programs that do not have a terminal MA, it may be the case that they don't want to accept transfer units, thus you'll have to do their coursework any way, but you won't get the degree for it. But if you're fully funded... then it doesn't really matter! Before deciding to apply to PhD programs in religion this season, I had been prompted by a professor to consider local MA in philosophy programs as a way to broaden my PhD possibilities. I did some research and talked to the DGS at Loyola Marymount and Cal State LA. Both programs have excellent acceptance rates to good PhD programs, neither school offering a PhD themselves in philosophy. LMU specializes in continental philosophy and CSULA in analytic (though they have continental people and claim to be a department of broad interests.) You can go on those departments' sites and see exactly where people have gone after completing those programs. Hope that helps.

I've seen a lot of "accepted" posts for Northwestern on the survey. Anyone accept their offer yet and planning their move? I've been accepted to the religious studies program. I'll be visiting next weekend. My biggest concern right now is figuring out housing.

I agree with the people above. Good professors write honest letters. Great professors will tell you that they can't write a strong recommendation if you ask for one. I asked 6 potential recommenders and was forward in making sure they knew that if they did not feel they could write a strong letter, I would rather they decline. I think that's something professors are used to and understand. Most of the professors told me in general terms what they would and would not be able to speak to. My interaction with everyone was polite, and in the end it was the most beneficial way for me to go.

What field are you going into? If its a science, there probably isn't as much weight on the AW or V sections...although 2.5, as you know, is definitely not good. If there's time, I would retake it. If you're applying for Fall 2012 (which is what your profile says), then there probably isn't time. Princeton Review has a free test you can take where real people grade your AW section and tell you why they gave you the score they did. It was really helpful for me. The score may not completely destroy your app--it just depends on the schools you're applying to. For some the GRE is just a formality while for others, it's how they make their first round of cuts. Contacting programs directly (as someone in another post said, contact POIs or DGSs not program coordinators) can be really helpful in figuring this out. Most will be honest with you.

I wasn't quite sure where to post this, but it seemed to fit here... I have an offer from Northwestern that I've been sitting on for a month now. Ph.D, full funding/stipend for five years. I'm super excited about it. I still have yet to hear from 5 other schools, 2 of which I would very seriously consider over Northwestern, particularly if there was a similar funding package offered. Here's my question: Assuming I'm waitlisted at these other schools, does it make any difference to admission committees whether or not a candidate for admission has another offer pending? I want to email the DGS's at Syracuse and Virginia (the two programs I'd consider) and ask them if decisions have been made. Obviously, if I've been rejected, this is all a moot point, and my decision will be made easier. =) I'm getting married in August, and my fiance and I want to be able to make a decision asap so we can begin preparing for our move out of California. Does anyone have experience with this?

I think you should really PM the people who have lived in Santa Barbara to find out more. I have family and a few friends there (I grew up in Pasadena, near Los Angeles), and it is a different world. People who are comparing the cost of living and the living experience to other places in So Cal I don't think are helping you out all that much. Rent is probably comparable, but groceries and other "every day" items are more expensive. Don't know if this matters to you, but there are also certain stores (such as Target) that aren't in Santa Barbara--you would have to drive about 30 minutes south of UCSB to get to them. Obviously not a huge deal if you never shop at places like Target or Wal-Mart, but it could be surprising if you're used to having certain stores around. Technically, you'd probably be living in Isla Vista (the small town attached to UCSB) which has all the stuff you'd need (food co-op, etc.), so you definitely could get away without a car. The person who went to UCLA and said you would absolutely need a car of course needed a car since, he/she was living in Los Angeles--COMPLETELY different experience in Santa Barbara. Like I said, talk to someone who lived in Santa Barbara, not just So Cal, because the experience of living in Riverside/LA/SD/SB is going to be totally different.

talific is right. When I got a call from Northwestern for my first acceptance, the DGS made it clear that it was an unofficial offer of admission--the department was recommending me for admission, and assuming everything went well (which I'm sure it almost always does), I would be receiving an official admission offer. Basically, she had to make sure I knew that it wasn't official until I received the letter from the dean of the graduate school. So those above who are worried about having your offer rescinded, remember that chadottir's adviser offered him/her an unofficial admission, not an official one. That DEFINITELY doesn't make it suck any less (really, really sorry to hear about this, chadottir), but US schools are similar in, if nothing else, the fact that an unofficial offer from a POI or DGS doesn't necessarily guarantee admission. If you have an official admission offer from a dean or DGS, it is highly unlikely it will be withdrawn without there being some sort of impropriety on your part. Also, remember that in chadottir's case he/she was contacting the POI trying to leverage a decision (a perfectly reasonable move, btw), which probably elicited a response from the POI that was a little hasty, since chadottir is clearly a qualified, desirable candidate. If your department/POI/DGS is contacting you before you've made any sort of contact post-application, chances are they've done their homework, and they're more than 99.999% sure they can offer you admission.

Thanks for the insight! I would have LOVED to work directly with Ingolf Dalferth... Interestingly enough, if Northwestern ends up being where I land, I'll be working with Christine Helmer who came to Northwestern. I'm certainly excited about the resources available in Chicago.

Accepted at Claremont Graduate University to the joint MA Philosophy/PhD Religion. Got an email from the program coordinator. I'll be turning this down though since they're only offering 50% tuition and Northwestern is offering full tuition plus a stipend. Would've been fun to do an MA in Philosophy though!

For me, I found that education was a good fit. I started out becoming a high school English teacher, though after finishing my credential, I went straight into an MA program and never set foot inside my own high school classroom. From there, I realized that I could actually write at a high level and the prospect of being able to just talk and write about literature for the rest of my life sounded really appealing. Through the course of my first MA, I realized I wanted to either change disciplines completely or at least become more interdisciplinary (I ended up doing the former). I suppose I could say I've been on an intellectual journey.

I feel like I'm in a similar situation. I have an offer with full funding and a very large stipend for 5 years, but I still want to wait to hear back from a few other schools that could be better for me all around (though I don't know if the funding/stipend offer could be better.) I'm also checking this site obsessively. I've seen only one acceptance from each of the two schools I'm most anxious to hear back from. Then a couple waitlists for those same schools, but everything is really spread out date-wise. A friend of mine got an email notification he'd been waitlisted at one of those too. It really is maddening. I'm hoping that a week or two from now it's all over. I'd almost rather be rejected from the rest of the schools than still be waiting to hear back in two weeks.

I think you're right about judgment especially when I do think my field is somewhere between the academic and the practical. I'm not sure theology is worth much if it can't be applied and directly affect how people live their faith. Also the people who typically want to press the conversation forward are people who are close to me (parents and relatives.) I think other theology/bib studies/Christian scholars would probably resonate with that as well. And I can see how math would be a similar situation.

Dude--not really sure why you're getting so upset. And insulting. Didn't really think what I said warranted that. Clearly we're just not understanding each other, so I suppose I'll take @Semester Photon's advice and politely excuse myself from the conversation.

WannaBeEast, thanks for sharing your story. I too feel as though I came from a somewhat non-traditional background. I went to community college, then a state school. I screwed around for the first 3 years of college and didn't actually figure out that I was good at writing until my senior year. I had been a film major for the first 2 1/2 years, then switched to creative writing, then decided I wanted to be an English teacher. I went through the credentialing process and during that time decided I wanted to get an MA before going on to the job market. I went to another second tier state school for that (although an exceptional teaching institution) and during that time decided I wanted to go into academia and do interdisciplinary work, which, I felt, required another MA. So now I'm finishing seminary. My undergrad GPA is low (3.17), but I have a high graduate GPA in the same field (3.89) and a decent GPA for my second MA (3.7). My GRE scores were modest, but by no means outstanding (V 161; Q 154; AW 5.0). A month ago, I was accepted at Northwestern with full funding and a stipend for 5 years, and I think it was a combination of factors. Northwestern was a school that I actually DIDN'T contact before applying. I had narrowed my list to 6 schools through contacting a bunch of POI's, but as I was applying (I would definitely recommend this), but I panicked and found four more to send applications to. I didn't have time to contact POI's at those schools since it was nearly Thanksgiving, so I felt like I was really just shooting in the dark. When my POI from NU called me, she told me that my writing sample was extremely strong and showed a lot of promise and that my letters of recommendation were excellent as well. In looking at the profiles of her current students (as well as others in the Religious Studies department), I can see that I am the only one who is doing what I want to do (biblical/philosophical hermeneutics). No one else is doing anything remotely related to that, but it's one of my POI's major interests. So the fit, I think in many cases, really can be the most important thing. A professor at my seminary said that the SOP is also one of the most important pieces because so often she'll have some that come across the admissions committee table that either are so broad that the committee has no idea what faculty would take on the student or are so narrow and detailed that they feel like writing back, "Clearly, you have nothing to learn from us. Good luck with your dissertation!" That's a difficult balance to strike, but if you can do it, it can really help.