RANT: In terms of applications, what we wish schools did better.

[khigh]

31 minutes ago, turtleducks said:

I think that depends on the testing center. I was allowed to be pretty relaxed when I took the GRE. Had my shoes off, put my feet on the crossbar under the desk, crossed my legs, had my feet up on the chair, was hanging halfway out of the chair at one point. Certainly some testing centers are staffed by prison wardens though.

I wish I  would have known prior to going to the testing center how much they were like entering prison or going through TSA before I went. It was unsettling and made me very nervous walking into the testing room after I was wanded AND patted down. I'm not going in there to look at the nuclear codes, just to take a test, so why the need for a full-scale pat down? I made the mistake of putting the pencil down on the wrong side of the desk and got motioned to move it, which was a further distraction.

I did okay on the verbal (161) and poor on the quant (147) and okay on the writing (5.0), but I would have done better if I wasn't worried about being touched or scolded excessively. I will never go to that center again. If I need to take the LSATs again (my score is a few years old), then I will drive 2 hours to another testing center. 

[mk-8]

14 minutes ago, khigh said:

I wish I  would have known prior to going to the testing center how much they were like entering prison or going through TSA before I went. It was unsettling and made me very nervous walking into the testing room after I was wanded AND patted down.

I’m pretty sure they were more thorough here than when I’ve gone through TSA. I suppose they have certain guidelines they’re supposed to follow and some of them do/don’t with certain amounts of flexibility. I just really hope I never have to take it again. 

[a_sort_of_fractious_angel]

2 hours ago, turtleducks said:

I think that depends on the testing center. I was allowed to be pretty relaxed when I took the GRE. Had my shoes off, put my feet on the crossbar under the desk, crossed my legs, had my feet up on the chair, was hanging halfway out of the chair at one point. Certainly some testing centers are staffed by prison wardens though.

I'm an otherwise horrible applicant with a fantastic GRE score (even did pretty well in the math part, but strangely not especially great in the essay part) so this actually cheered me up a little... Thank you for the link to look into. With that said, even I agree the GRE is stupid and terrible and a detestable ripoff and should be axed. I don't know how ETS execs sleep at night.

But holy shit: "Chinese applicants appear especially challenging to many American professors, who report that they “seem alike” and hard to distinguish, when the admissions process is designed to do just that. One humanities professor told Posselt, “How do you compare six students from China, who all have the same last name?”" WOW.

You're right @turtleducks about the test location - I did the GRE both outside of Philly and in Richmond - the Philly one was scary. Richmond one was playing Katy Perry and had candies. Total opposites. 

And no problem! I'm still trying to suss out how the GRE works since my scores are not fantastic (165/144/4.0 & 163/144/5.0 - future applicants, you can SEND TWO SCORES FOR THE PRICE OF ONE TO MOST SCHOOLS!) and the test is totally a ripoff (fun fact, my one math score was me hitting "C" each time and one was me trying to do the math) but it definitely has weight within whatever holistic approach is used. 

Dude - I don't even know what to say to that sh*t. It's like ... REALLY? SERIOUSLY? Who would (even anonymously) make any statement like that! Why. Please, leave. Go elsewhere. 

[Yanaka]

1 hour ago, a_sort_of_fractious_angel said:

You're right @turtleducks about the test location - I did the GRE both outside of Philly and in Richmond - the Philly one was scary. Richmond one was playing Katy Perry and had candies. Total opposites.  

I heart this!

[clinamen]

5 hours ago, a_sort_of_fractious_angel said:

(fun fact, my one math score was me hitting "C" each time

This is literally me lol. I just did not do the math, I didn't see a point in wasting my time/energy on it. Of course, I freaked myself out over the last month or so thinking my abysmal math score would somehow tank my application but that hasn't been the case  I don't have a stellar verbal score either, so I'm not convinced that the GRE does, in fact, determine a successful or unsuccessful app. 

[posts]

I took it twice too and the people at the first center were also a lot scarier. The lady there who metal-detector-wanded me with no expression whatsoever on her face is who I was thinking of when I said "prison warden".  

At the second place, they were no-nonsense about the regulations, but they treated me like a normal person and smiled sometimes so it was overall not bad.

I got 162Q/170V/4.5AW the second time, after putting in some considerable effort to bump up the math score. Too bad it probably won't do me much, if any, good. Ripoff!

Edited February 1, 2018 by turtleducks

[Yanaka]

5 hours ago, clinamen said:

This is literally me lol. I just did not do the math, I didn't see a point in wasting my time/energy on it. Of course, I freaked myself out over the last month or so thinking my abysmal math score would somehow tank my application but that hasn't been the case  I don't have a stellar verbal score either, so I'm not convinced that the GRE does, in fact, determine a successful or unsuccessful app. 

I did that too. I alternated between hitting the same letter, and trying to guess and follow my “gut feeling.”  I tried to do it the right way, though, but I prepared only two months prior to taking the exam, and I quickly realized that the math part was going to take me ages. Not because I had to remember old stuff, but I had to LEARN new stuff!! Nope. I gave up after two weeks of including math in my studying, and got a 13- something. Even the stuff that I thought I was okay with I didn’t understand. Such a cruel exam to have people like me take. I tried hard at school, I had a tutor and then we did baby math when I was in high shool, but nope. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Yanaka

[mk-8]

2 hours ago, Yanaka said:

I did that too. I alternated between hitting the same letter, and trying to guess and follow my “gut feeling.”  I tried to do it the right way, though, but I prepared only two months prior to taking the exam, and I quickly realized that the math part was going to take me ages. Not because I had to remember old stuff, but I had to LEARN new stuff!! Nope. I gave up after two weeks of including math in my studying, and got a 13- something. Even the stuff that I thought I was okay with I didn’t understand. Such a cruel exam to have people like me take. I tried hard at school, I had a tutor and then we did baby math when I was in high shool, but nope. 

One of my profs who went to Chicago said he Christmas treed math, so I did too. I was in the 20something percentile. I’m not even really that bad at math (not that you’d believe it, lol). 

Edited February 1, 2018 by mk-8
Realized 2something didn’t look like 20 something. Math y’all.

[Yanaka]

27 minutes ago, mk-8 said:

One of my profs who went to Chicago said he Christmas treed math, so I did too. I was in the 2something percentile. I’m not even really that bad at math (not that you’d believe it, lol). 

Hahahaha!!!! I was in the 6th percentile, I am extremely proud to have had a better math score   #shook

well our methods sure didn’t work out!

[nichts]

I see it as a public service to applicants outside the humanities.

[gordian]

I know it's unrealistic, as a lot of acceptances attach personalized pdfs and such, but I'd love it if every school just sent out a mail merged email to all accepted students at one time. Looking at the results page and seeing schools come in in waves is so painful!

[ArcierePrudente]

2 hours ago, mk-8 said:

One of my profs who went to Chicago said he Christmas treed math, so I did too. I was in the 20something percentile. I’m not even really that bad at math (not that you’d believe it, lol). 

As a Chicago applicant, this makes me feel much better. I'm also pretty good at math, but when you lock me in a fluorescent-lit cubicle farm for 6 hours, throw a thousand 'not-to-scale' isosceles triangles in my face, and tell me I forfeit my score if I get up to use the bathroom outside of a predetermined window, I'll call my 156 a victory, thanks. 

[ayasofaya]

I'm going to double down on TRANSPARENCY.

The program may have a "holistic approach" to reading applications and may not have hard minimums for GPA or test scores, but they do have the numbers from the applicants they have accepted in recent years. You have the data, so publish it.

Some programs publish the GRE scores and GPA of their median 50% and median 80%. This is a courtesy that should be standard of all schools, and you're doing a disservice to your applicants by telling them you "welcome applicants" with a 300 GRE because that's the "gate" when you know well and good 80% of applicants score between 315-340. The GRE costs over $200 and the decision of whether or not to retake is a stressful one, especially if you have no idea where your score falls in the mix of what is typically admitted.

[renea]

4 minutes ago, ayasofaya said:

You have the data, so publish it.

Yes! I have no understanding of why data isn't published when it's available. Programs want to claim that these things don't factor into decisions, but data is telling and when all the applicants being accepted have 4.0s and 168s upward on the V gre score, it might help me know if this is a reach school I want to invest an application in. 

[khigh]

13 minutes ago, renea said:

Yes! I have no understanding of why data isn't published when it's available. Programs want to claim that these things don't factor into decisions, but data is telling and when all the applicants being accepted have 4.0s and 168s upward on the V gre score, it might help me know if this is a reach school I want to invest an application in. 

The only way I've been able to tell is by watching the acceptances on the survey on gradcafe. Apparently, I'm on the low end for this cycle. If I would have known that, I don't think I would have applied.

[khigh]

3 minutes ago, jpbends said:

It's also important to note though that gradcafe is going to attract certain types of people! By just looking at the results posted on gradcafe, I would have thought everybody scored at least 167/160/5.5, and that can't be the case... can it?

The U publishes "ranges" from their applications and matriculation. I'm in the middle of the range, but one starts getting anxious when they haven't heard anything.

[renea]

4 minutes ago, jpbends said:

It's also important to note though that gradcafe is going to attract certain types of people! By just looking at the results posted on gradcafe, I would have thought everybody scored at least 167/160/5.5, and that can't be the case... can it?

True, but if the program only accepts 5 people and you have a few years of data on gradcafe showing 2-3 people each cycle with 167/160/5.5, are we really supposed to think that is a coincidence.

We can speculate all day long though, the point is that if some of the data (that is already available to departments) was shared, we could be the judge of whether or not we feel we want to take the risk and apply. 

[ayasofaya]

10 minutes ago, renea said:

We can speculate all day long though, the point is that if some of the data (that is already available to departments) was shared, we could be the judge of whether or not we feel we want to take the risk and apply. 

Or risk wasting $200 on a GRE retake, since thats one of the factors you can still manipulate to give you an edge in the months before the application date (unlike GPA or work experience).

I had a 160V/156Q which is borderline for my comfort applying to my program. The program lists no ranges, just says "we have no minimum and we look at everything." How is that supposed to help me decide if its worth it to retake for a 160Q 320 total? I bit the bullet and paid for a magoosh account and retake. I scored 162V156Q. Now I'm even more anxious than before. Even if i get in, I'm going to think about the $350 I could have saved because my original scores were fine.

At the end of the day, I don't care about the profiles you're "willing to accept." I only care about the types of profiles you do accept.

Edited February 1, 2018 by ayasofaya

[AnxiousNerd]

Instead of just posting the research being done in your department, maybe also mention whether or not the research team is accepting new students. I shouldn't have to email every university to ask if the algebra team is accepting students, but I don't want to give you my $80+$27+$10 for you to tell me I'm not a @$^#%&% fit!

Also! Why do you need my CV if I have to also just type everything out! Some of my applications asked me to list every math class I have taken, the professor, the course number, the TEXTBOOK USED, and TWO IMPORTANT TOPICS COVERED. IT WAS HELL. Your ass knows damn well what I covered in differential equations (hint: differential equations)

[khigh]

11 minutes ago, AnxiousNerd said:

Instead of just posting the research being done in your department, maybe also mention whether or not the research team is accepting new students. I shouldn't have to email every university to ask if the algebra team is accepting students, but I don't want to give you my $80+$27+$10 for you to tell me I'm not a @$^#%&% fit!

Also! Why do you need my CV if I have to also just type everything out! Some of my applications asked me to list every math class I have taken, the professor, the course number, the TEXTBOOK USED, and TWO IMPORTANT TOPICS COVERED. IT WAS HELL. Your ass knows damn well what I covered in differential equations (hint: differential equations)

It's even worse when you have been talking to a POI for months, even having coffee with them and being invited/attending symposium and consortium meetings with them...and you apply...and they don't tell you they are planning on retiring in the next few years and don't know if they will be taking anyone. 

[renea]

On 2/1/2018 at 12:34 PM, AnxiousNerd said:

Also! Why do you need my CV if I have to also just type everything out! Some of my applications asked me to list every math class I have taken, the professor, the course number, the TEXTBOOK USED, and TWO IMPORTANT TOPICS COVERED. IT WAS HELL. Your ass knows damn well what I covered in differential equations (hint: differential equations)

not as common in the humanities, but my husband is applying to math/physics programs and I second this. His CV and transcripts have all his relevant information, and while I understand that some people may not list those things on their cv, perhaps making that part of the form optional (as in, if you do not supply this info, please fill out this form), would be far easier than making him type out every assistantship, class, job, textbook, and skills. 

It's the same for job apps. I remember the last time I was looking for a job and had to fill out those stupid online apps and they make you give them your resume, but then retype all the information on the form. 

 

On 2/1/2018 at 12:45 PM, khigh said:

It's even worse when you have been talking to a POI for months, even having coffee with them and being invited/attending symposium and consortium meetings with them...and you apply...and they don't tell you they are planning on retiring in the next few years and don't know if they will be taking anyone. 

I emailed a DGS about a program this cycle and she emailed me back a brochure (that was not anywhere online) for the program which had all the faculty listed. I talked to a professor later who then mentioned that a professor who I was interested in working with was leaving . I understand that people make decisions last minute or are not aware that they are leaving sometimes (not really the case with people retiring though), but please update the website or brochure. It's not like he was the only faculty I was interested in working with, but had I not known I would have listed him on my SOP and perhaps not have been accepted because of that

[posts]

The extra cynical part of me thinks schools intentionally keep info like GRE cutoffs on the dl so they don't scare away applicants that they can reject to lower their acceptance rates. It's a lot harder to say stuff like "We receive hundreds of applications every year but can only enroll 5" if you don't get a hundred applications that you can just immediately throw on the "no" pile because they didn't get a 169/169/5.5. 

[renea]

15 minutes ago, turtleducks said:

The extra cynical part of me thinks schools intentionally keep info like GRE cutoffs on the dl so they don't scare away applicants that they can reject to lower their acceptance rates. It's a lot harder to say stuff like "We receive hundreds of applications every year but can only enroll 5" if you don't get a hundred applications that you can just immediately throw on the "no" pile because they didn't get a 169/169/5.5. 

See I was thinking the opposite: that they want to keep the gre cutoff quiet on the offchance that an otherwise exceptional candidate might apply in which they would make an exception (I'm thinking in the case of a person with an amazing cv and gpa but with like a 155V gre score when they usually accept only 160V up). While I think this reason is optimistic (nice and noble), I also feel that it misleads the other applicants who applied thinking their gre score wouldn't matter. So I guess, I'm thinking that admissions committees want to keep their options open in case they don't get as many stellar candidates one year or they want more variety of applicants (or so that they can decide whether or not to consider candidate's gre scores). Think about it, why would an admissions committee want less options?

 

Of course, once again I am just speculating. 

[la_mod]

8 minutes ago, renea said:

See I was thinking the opposite: that they want to keep the gre cutoff quiet on the offchance that an otherwise exceptional candidate might apply in which they would make an exception (I'm thinking in the case of a person with an amazing cv and gpa but with like a 155V gre score when they usually accept only 160V up). While I think this reason is optimistic (nice and noble), I also feel that it misleads the other applicants who applied thinking their gre score wouldn't matter. So I guess, I'm thinking that admissions committees want to keep their options open in case they don't get as many stellar candidates one year or they want more variety of applicants (or so that they can decide whether or not to consider candidate's gre scores). Think about it, why would an admissions committee want less options?

 

Of course, once again I am just speculating. 

I think it’s this too. That’s why Berkeley says they “typically” take only 95th percentile plus. If they published them, I’d think there’d be a couple people each year who didn’t do nearly as well.

[ArcierePrudente]

54 minutes ago, AnxiousNerd said:

Also! Why do you need my CV if I have to also just type everything out!

Or ask to attach a resume and then make you effectively re-write your resume in the "Work Experience" section... I want so badly just to type "see attached," but of course I'm too desperate for approval and validation.