Rants, Venting, and Speculation

[prtrbd]

Why would Notre Dame call two people and then stop?

I'm going nuts.

[thehegeldialectic]

1 hour ago, Pythian said:

It's hard to look beyond academia if it has been the central structure of one's life.

Yeah, I looked beyond academia and found long hours doing something I don't care about for little pay. I chose to return to doing something meaningful.

Edited February 27, 2018 by iunoionnis

[kurumetarou]

On 2/26/2018 at 12:12 AM, iunoionnis said:

Well, if you really want this, it might be a good idea to look into a terminal M.A., if you don't have an M.A. already. It's becoming more and more standard for people to get M.A.'s before Ph.D. nowadays. 

I agree with you, but I already got an MPhil, though not from a prestigious US institution so maybe it doesn't mean jack for the adcoms. Getting into a funded MA doesn't seem much easier than getting into a PhD program. This application season has already left me broken financially, so a self-funded program isn't within consideration. Maybe if I win a lottery I will try.

1 hour ago, Pythian said:

Coming out of undergrad, I had a similar mindset as @ kurumetarou , but now being a year out of school, and working at a job that I enjoy, I feel I can approach my goals in academic philosophy more lucidly than I could have a year ago.

Many students go into college right out of high school, and apply for grad school their senior year. For many people, their senior year at college is 16 unbroken years of being in the education system. It wouldn't surprise me if students experience something similar to stockholm syndrome. It's hard to look beyond academia if it has been the central structure of one's life.

I graduated a few years ago, and had been in the job market for some time. Took me some effort to even find a dead-end job (apparently no employer wants a philosophy student here) with no hope of doubling my salary even if I work there for 20+ years. Counting the factors of inflation and rising cost of living, I would say my prospect is very dim. Frequently changing jobs gives one a bad rep, and job interviewers can be very mean about that. That being said, it's time for me to look for another full-time dead-end job now, so that I won't end up being a janitor for the rest of my life. Not that being a janitor is anything wrong - it's among the least replaceable jobs when AI hits the market, and the janitor from Scrubs is kinda cool too -  but I would't exactly call it my dream job either.

Edited February 27, 2018 by kurumetarou

[thehegeldialectic]

4 minutes ago, kurumetarou said:

it's among the least replaceable jobs when AI hits the market, 

I was following you until this part. What movie is this from? 

[kurumetarou]

18 minutes ago, iunoionnis said:

I was following you until this part. What movie is this from? 

Recently the media has been spreading this idea that AIs are eventually gonna replace jobs that are easily automated. Judging from the limited functionalities of contemporary robot vacuum cleaners, I would say it will be a long time before janitors are replaced.

[Pythian]

12 minutes ago, iunoionnis said:

Yeah, I looked beyond academia and found long hours doing something I don't care about for little pay. I chose to return to doing something meaningful.

I am not you, so I can't speak to your experience, but if having a job in academia is the only possible way for you to feel you are doing fulfilling work, then I would find that a little worrying if I were you. If anything, it seems to indicate a strong dependence on an institution that is impersonal and unreliable.

Based on the wording of your statement, it is ambiguous as to whether you have actually been outside of the academy. Just like getting into a cool pool, the water is a lot warmer once you get used to it (and after you've been swimming around for a while, getting out of the pool seems like the cold part!) It might take a lot of work to find a meaningful job, but probably not as much work as graduate school.

48 minutes ago, prtrbd said:

Why would Notre Dame call two people and then stop?

I'm going nuts.

Not everyone reports their acceptances publicly. Perhaps there were a few more that are undisclosed, and the rest are going out tomorrow?

[thehegeldialectic]

19 minutes ago, Pythian said:

Based on the wording of your statement, it is ambiguous as to whether you have actually been outside of the academy. Just like getting into a cool pool, the water is a lot warmer once you get used to it (and after you've been swimming around for a while, getting out of the pool seems like the cold part!) It might take a lot of work to find a meaningful job, but probably not as much work as graduate school.

I think you have a really naive picture of what the workforce is actually like. I worked a manual labor job every day from eight to six for two years. I woke up at 5AM every morning just so I could study philosophy for an hour before leaving for work. I would then spend the entire weekend studying. I learned not to waste a single hour, which is what made me so successful as a graduate student. 

 

19 minutes ago, Pythian said:

but if having a job in academia is the only possible way for you to feel you are doing fulfilling work, then I would find that a little worrying if I were you. 

I don't find it worrying. I do find it worrying that you find this worrying. If you are pursuing a job in academia and have no passion for what you're doing, or could find it meaningful to do something else, then go do that. Academia is hard work, pays very little, and you would be making a whole lot more money somewhere else. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by iunoionnis

[lyellgeo]

The only thing I will say is that I think it's a good idea (unless perhaps, one is going to a top 20 program) to be comfortable with the idea of non-academic work before and after graduate school. There is a very significant chance—probably somewhere between 30-60% or higher, depending on the program—that, on finishing a phd, one will simply not find permanent academic employment (regardless of their personal merits and work ethic). That's assuming one even finishes the program, which many students do not, often for reasons outside their control. So, while not commenting on others, it's important for me personally to be entering a phd program with the full awareness that I might be more or less where I am now at the end of it.   

Also, there are many jobs in the private sector that can be meaningful—it's not just an all or nothing choice between philosophy and manual labor. For example, the schedule of my current job fortunately gives me plenty of time to do my own reading and writing, probably around as much as I would get if I were teaching classes full time anyway. (I also feel that it's at least somewhat personally fulfilling, though perhaps not as much as teaching.) One of the major problems of philosophy as a discipline is that it gives students very little guidance on how to navigate the private sector after graduation, resulting in a "academia or nothing" mentality which often just postpones the ultimate problem. 

One last point (although this is more minor), is that I don't really see a hard distinction between private/for-profit work and academia. Academia is a system that, in many ways, exploits and profits off of well-meaning students (primarily by charging them huge amounts in tuition and burdening them with long-term debt). Moreover, universities at all levels are increasingly being run by and beholden to corporate interests. So, I guess my main point is that it's important not to idolize academia, because many of the main problems of the so-called "private sector" are endemic to the academic system at large. 

Edit: adding another recent but relevant essay on this

Edited February 27, 2018 by lyellgeo

[MtnDuck]

11 hours ago, prtrbd said:

Why would Notre Dame call two people and then stop?

I'm going nuts.

Someone in the acceptance/rejection thread said they're not done accepting people and that the early offer was due to a fellowship.

Edited February 27, 2018 by MtnDuck

[prtrbd]

On 2/26/2018 at 8:34 AM, prtrbd said:

Any predictions for who we'll hear from this week?

My dream: Monday, Notre Dame; Tuesday, UNC; Wednesday, Princeton; Thursday, Oxford; Friday, NYU.

So far it's been: Monday, Notre Dame; Tuesday, Princeton; Wednesday, Oxford. Not bad, me. Not bad.

Of course, I haven't gotten in to any of them.

[soproperlybasic]

Wonder if Oxford is done sending stuff out for the B.Phil

At this point, I'd rather just get rejections from my remaining schools so I can move on with my life 

[ThePeon]

Why exactly do most schools wait so long to send out official rejections after acceptances and waitlists? It seems like it would be so easy to just send a mass rejection email to everyone who didn't get accepted or waitlisted immediately after sending out the other letters.

Edited February 28, 2018 by ThePeon

[ThePeon]

Also, not to clog up this thread, but I just the checked the portal and it turns out my Penn application never was submitted. Welp, that's what I get for rushing to fill out applications last minute...

[MtnDuck]

4 minutes ago, ThePeon said:

Also, not to clog up this thread, but I just the checked the portal and it turns out my Penn application never was submitted. Welp, that's what I get for rushing to fill out applications last minute...

I'm with you on that. I managed to never hit submit on my Arizona one somehow...

[prtrbd]

I honestly can't think how I've been shut out this badly. My writing sample must have been awful.

[ArendtYouKidding]

I've been lurking forever, but have finally decided to explicitly ask the things I am hoping someone might know and could ease my mind. So here it goes! Does anyone have any thoughts on....

-Why we haven't seen more Arizona acceptances, or know how their waitlist works? I was told I am on a "short waitlist" and it's my only not-rejection so far. 

-Colorado (Boulder) and their process? I believe their were a few acceptances but no waitlists or rejections. 

-Any idea of what UConn might be doing? That's the school I am waiting for, but it seems like they have been pretty inconsistent the last few years. 

Thanks! 

[syn]

25 minutes ago, prtrbd said:

I honestly can't think how I've been shut out this badly. My writing sample must have been awful.

Given the information about your grades/scores and whatnot, I would bet it's far less your writing sample (though it could be) and might be more your letters.  If you do try again next season (should you not receive anything this season), I would encourage you to have a one-on-one discussion with your letter writers and/or find new letter writers.

[prtrbd]

5 minutes ago, syn said:

Given the information about your grades/scores and whatnot, I would bet it's far less your writing sample (though it could be) and might be more your letters.  If you do try again next season (should you not receive anything this season), I would encourage you to have a one-on-one discussion with your letter writers and/or find new letter writers.

I'll admit that I've wondered about my letter writers. Still, they all agreed to recommend me, and out of seven combined classes I took with the three of them I got six As and an A-.

[tmck3053]

2 hours ago, ThePeon said:

Why exactly do most schools wait so long to send out official rejections after acceptances and waitlists? It seems like it would be so easy to just send a mass rejection email to everyone who didn't get accepted or waitlisted immediately after sending out the other letters.

This is just a stab in the dark but I think much of it has to do with jumping through bureaucratic hoops. I got a phone call from one school to let me know I was accepted that was followed up by an email with the funding details etc. but none of the contact so far has constituted an 'official' acceptance. Apparently the official acceptance letters have to be approved by some office at a higher level and it takes a while. I suppose it would make sense not to formally reject everyone until this process had played out successfully, even if it is just a rubber stamp. 

That particular school got in touch with me almost two weeks ago now but hasn't yet sent out rejections.

Edited February 28, 2018 by tmck3053

[shadowyBeing]

Anyone know of anyone waitlisted at British Columbia? I'm curious why—judging from the gradcafe survey alone—they haven't released any waitlist decisions, given that they've released acceptances and rejections. Anyone have a clue?

[kretschmar]

Perhaps an oddly placed word of advice, but be advised, all those headed to visits: be prepared to succinctly and convincingly present your interests and direction, again and again, to all interested parties!

[Cogitodoncrien]

Has anyone on the UC Davis waitlist received an email about how that waitlist is ranked?

[Rose-Colored Beetle]

And now for a good-humored rant.

Does anyone else regret sending out your GRE scores to the masses? I just checked my spam folder, and I have recent emails from no less than seven institutions. This isn't counting all the ones that made it past my spam filter. Why do people think I want a master's degree in library science, social work, education, counseling, international policy, or digital design? What is the Pratt Institute? What in thunder is USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck?

I am dubbing these institutions "vulture schools," since they are apparently waiting for those who are sick unto death after being shut out.

[coffeepls]

14 hours ago, kretschmar said:

Perhaps an oddly placed word of advice, but be advised, all those headed to visits: be prepared to succinctly and convincingly present your interests and direction, again and again, to all interested parties!

Are you visiting Miami U of OH by any chance? I'm heading there next week. 

[lyellgeo]

Awaiting without horizon of the waitlist, awaiting what one does not expect yet or any longer, hospitality without reserve, welcoming salutation accorded in advance to the absolute surprise of the arrivant [admittant] from whom or from which one will not ask anything in return and who or which will not be asked to commit to the domestic [department] contracts of any welcoming power (family, State, nation, territory, native soil or blood, language, culture in general, even humanity), just opening which renounces any right to property, any right in general, messianic opening to what is coming, that is, to the event that cannot be awaited as such, or recognized in advance therefore, to the event as the foreigner itself, to her or to him for whom one must leave an empty place, always, in memory of the hope—and this is the very place of spectrality.

Jacques Derrida, Spectres of Graduate School

Edited March 1, 2018 by lyellgeo