100k debt for IR Masters worth it?

[MaxwellAlum]

With the major caveat that any amount of debt is too much if you can get the same result by spending less, I would say that $30k is definitely manageable.  You can pay that off in 10 years with monthly payments under $350.  It's still a significant amount of money to fork over every month, but assuming you're looking at jobs that pay $50k out of grad school, it's reasonably affordable and is not that much higher than what you'd be paying on an income based plan.  And if you're really motivated and don't have a lot of other expenses, it wouldn't be totally impossible to pay it off faster by making larger payments.

$70k is a lot.  Under a 10-year repayment plan, you're looking at monthly payments of about $800 a month.  That is going to be difficult to afford on $50k in a high cost region.  That's going to get in the way of your financial goals even when your income goes up, unless you're willing to live quite frugally for a long time (I'm talking about roommates and long commutes).  Income-based repayment will probably be the way to go with this amount of debt, so basically you need to be prepared to be paying back your loans for a very long time.  It's not impossible, you won't be destitute (unless Congress eliminates income-based repayment entirely, which is unlikely), but it will impact you for a very long time. 

My sense is that $50k is the very upper limit for student loan debt in terms of what you can reasonably pay back in 10 years on a public service salary (monthly payments under $600), assuming no forgiveness and assuming good financial health otherwise and no major existing expenses.  $600 is a lot of money to pay per month, but you can potentially get that amount down to $500 by making extra payments when you graduate if you're willing to be extra frugal for a little while.  Income-based repayment might still be desirable at this level, but the interest isn't so much that your balance will balloon during your first few years out of grad school. 

Higher amounts are not impossible to manage, but they mean committing a good portion of your income to your student loans for a really long time, so you're going to want to make absolutely certain you're spending it on something worthwhile.   

 

[gelatinskeleton]

6 minutes ago, MaxwellAlum said:

With the major caveat that any amount of debt is too much if you can get the same result by spending less, I would say that $30k is definitely manageable.  You can pay that off in 10 years with monthly payments under $350.  It's still a significant amount of money to fork over every month, but assuming you're looking at jobs that pay $50k out of grad school, it's reasonably affordable and is not that much higher than what you'd be paying on an income based plan.  And if you're really motivated and don't have a lot of other expenses, it wouldn't be totally impossible to pay it off faster by making larger payments.

$70k is a lot.  Under a 10-year repayment plan, you're looking at monthly payments of about $800 a month.  That is going to be difficult to afford on $50k in a high cost region.  That's going to get in the way of your financial goals even when your income goes up, unless you're willing to live quite frugally for a long time (I'm talking about roommates and long commutes).  Income-based repayment will probably be the way to go with this amount of debt, so basically you need to be prepared to be paying back your loans for a very long time.  It's not impossible, you won't be destitute (unless Congress eliminates income-based repayment entirely, which is unlikely), but it will impact you for a very long time. 

My sense is that $50k is the very upper limit for student loan debt in terms of what you can reasonably pay back in 10 years on a public service salary (monthly payments under $600), assuming no forgiveness and assuming good financial health otherwise and no major existing expenses.  $600 is a lot of money to pay per month, but you can potentially get that amount down to $500 by making extra payments when you graduate if you're willing to be extra frugal for a little while.  Income-based repayment might still be desirable at this level, but the interest isn't so much that your balance will balloon during your first few years out of grad school. 

Higher amounts are not impossible to manage, but they mean committing a good portion of your income to your student loans for a really long time, so you're going to want to make absolutely certain you're spending it on something worthwhile.   

 

This is very helpful! From my limited loan experience, I agree with the 50k assessment. My ideal (besides 0) is <$30,000. Now I just have to keep in mind that I have to budget in tuition plus all the random fees, food, rent, expensive as hell textbooks, flights, transportation, etc and maybe just a little bit of beer money  

[ZebraFinch]

40 minutes ago, doglover5 said:

Seconding this question. I'm pretty excited to have a 60% funding offer from my top school and when I first received the offer I thought great, I'm all set. But after looking at the school's tuition + estimated costs I'll still need to take out around $70,000 in loans. That seems high to me, but this is the best offer I've gotten.

If you're competitive enough to get that amount of funding, I would say you're competitive enough to get external fellowships, if you're interested.

[doglover5]

9 minutes ago, ZebraFinch said:

If you're competitive enough to get that amount of funding, I would say you're competitive enough to get external fellowships, if you're interested.

It may be too late for this year, but any suggestions? I didn't apply for Rangel/Pickering/Payne because I'm not positive I want to work for the government after graduation, and also I don't think I'm that competitive. I do have quite a bit of international experience that I think helped my applications. Where else should I be looking? I haven't managed to find any other relevant fellowships/scholarships/grants despite researching it for months now.

[ZebraFinch]

2 hours ago, doglover5 said:

It may be too late for this year, but any suggestions? I didn't apply for Rangel/Pickering/Payne because I'm not positive I want to work for the government after graduation, and also I don't think I'm that competitive. I do have quite a bit of international experience that I think helped my applications. Where else should I be looking? I haven't managed to find any other relevant fellowships/scholarships/grants despite researching it for months now.

 If you're not sure about the government, well, I don't know of others that don't have a work requirement with the gov  Maybe the Truman scholarship, but I believe you have to be in your final year of undergrad to apply for that one. 

[VeryCheesey]

15 hours ago, doglover5 said:

after looking at the school's tuition + estimated costs I'll still need to take out around $70,000 in loans. That seems high to me, but this is the best offer I've gotten.

I'm in the same position as you, @doglover5 . Even with the funding I received, my top choice (Ford) would require me to take $60-70k in loans. I have a better offer from Humphrey (about $15k loans, extremely enticing), so I am not sure how to make this decision.

[doglover5]

5 hours ago, VeryCheesey said:

I'm in the same position as you, @doglover5 . Even with the funding I received, my top choice (Ford) would require me to take $60-70k in loans. I have a better offer from Humphrey (about $15k loans, extremely enticing), so I am not sure how to make this decision.

Yeah, I thought the offer I had was great until I looked at their estimated total costs. I have a $30,000 scholarship for $50,000 tuition, but they estimate $25,000 in additional costs for living in DC which seems high to me. Meanwhile, the $16,000 scholarship I have from another school is for only $34,000 tuition so that would end up being a little less in loans (though not much, this school is in DC too). Still waiting on one more result and I'm just hoping they'll offer me a crazy scholarship so I don't have to make this hard decision!

[Guest]

It depends on your debt tolerance level. 

But, it's gloomy both ways these days. I'm currently in Washington DC, and if you wish to work for the government all you hear is "Trump is cutting back on people in the government." During my application process in Spring 2015,  working for the public sector was my main intention.  I was a major idealist during my application process and obtained the international travel experience that people raved about on here, did a few internships in DC, and earned a basic Arabic fellowship. Yet, my job prospects still seem dim for what I 'originally intended' to do in the public sector. I'm looking for alternatives and have shifted more towards cybersecurity (one of my current specializations)and away from traditional IR these days. I finish up my Masters in August 2018. 

At the same time, I'm not going to sit here and say "Get work experience" because some people like myself get our IR/Poli Sci undergrad degrees from no-name schools located in small-towns that offered zero opportunities.  For such people, the military or retail are their only options after graduating. Hate to say that, but it's true. I'm nearly at the finish line with my Masters and will be in massive debt. Do I regret it? No. I have no family/kids at 25, no car, and never cared for a highly luxurious lifestyle. I will  just do any relevant job that accepts me from the private sector for a year or 2 along with some online programs to work my way up in Cybersecurity or computer science in an international context.  

I also had a classmate who originally wanted to work for State. He's graduated and had good credentials. Instead, he's currently working as Program Assistant for this DC thinktank...He plans to stay there for some time, then give the gov. a shot later on.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Guest

[ExponentialDecay]

I don't wanna call anyone out, but I gotta ask, what is this incredible opportunity you imagine you'll have access to once you graduate from one of these programs in massive debt? Because surely, at least once you're in the program, you see a lot of your classmates taking entry-level positions at or below minimum wage that don't quality for PSLF. What's your plan for paying off this debt? Do you have one?

Because these degrees aren't worth 100k in any kind of money, loans or out of pocket, and the attitude (that used to be prevalent on this board) that you need one to go anywhere in this sector is bullshit. In fact, you almost never need a public policy degree these days because it's overly general in every sense: it doesn't confer much of a prestige bump compared to an MBA, and it doesn't teach you any technical skill. If you want to be a technical specialist, be it in cyber security or renewable energy or health, stop fucking around and get a real degree in CS, engineering, epidemiology, etc that will give you deep competencies. If you just want an office job in the public sector, you have two paths: if you really want to shell out $$ for a fancy piece of paper, get an MBA, because it's employable outside of this very narrow slice of the job market, or, if you just want an education that will open doors (which a lot of people taking on debt claim to), get one for cheap at a state U or part time or go to Europe, or... If SAIS or whatever is giving you a full ride, it's not a bad deal: it's a free chance to schmooze around DC. But otherwise, no hell no way.

At the end of the day, this field is about having some substantial experience in a given policy field (through work, academia, or a combination), and public policy degrees are just a starting point. If you have nothing but the piece of paper to show an employer, you'll be stuck in typical office jobs, mostly support roles - and frankly, if that's your situation, I'm not sure what you're spiritedly fighting for. Those jobs aren't any more interesting, glamorous, or useful than their equivalent at Dunder Mifflin. The debt isn't worth even the chance to live your dream.

[irapplicant1776]

4 hours ago, ExponentialDecay said:

I don't wanna call anyone out, but I gotta ask, what is this incredible opportunity you imagine you'll have access to once you graduate from one of these programs in massive debt? Because surely, at least once you're in the program, you see a lot of your classmates taking entry-level positions at or below minimum wage that don't quality for PSLF. What's your plan for paying off this debt? Do you have one?

Because these degrees aren't worth 100k in any kind of money, loans or out of pocket, and the attitude (that used to be prevalent on this board) that you need one to go anywhere in this sector is bullshit. In fact, you almost never need a public policy degree these days because it's overly general in every sense: it doesn't confer much of a prestige bump compared to an MBA, and it doesn't teach you any technical skill. If you want to be a technical specialist, be it in cyber security or renewable energy or health, stop fucking around and get a real degree in CS, engineering, epidemiology, etc that will give you deep competencies. If you just want an office job in the public sector, you have two paths: if you really want to shell out $$ for a fancy piece of paper, get an MBA, because it's employable outside of this very narrow slice of the job market, or, if you just want an education that will open doors (which a lot of people taking on debt claim to), get one for cheap at a state U or part time or go to Europe, or... If SAIS or whatever is giving you a full ride, it's not a bad deal: it's a free chance to schmooze around DC. But otherwise, no hell no way.

At the end of the day, this field is about having some substantial experience in a given policy field (through work, academia, or a combination), and public policy degrees are just a starting point. If you have nothing but the piece of paper to show an employer, you'll be stuck in typical office jobs, mostly support roles - and frankly, if that's your situation, I'm not sure what you're spiritedly fighting for. Those jobs aren't any more interesting, glamorous, or useful than their equivalent at Dunder Mifflin. The debt isn't worth even the chance to live your dream.

Couldn't have said it better myself. These programs are not worth 80k, let alone 100k. The US government is just as happy to hire someone who got their MA from a cheap state school, and in any case that much debt will hinder your ability to get a security clearance.

Edited March 19, 2018 by irapplicant1776

[Nico Corr]

5 hours ago, ExponentialDecay said:

The debt isn't worth even the chance to live your dream.

stop fucking around and get a real degree in CS, engineering, epidemiology, etc that will give you deep competencies. 

These are realizations that I am starting to come to. 

[lawine]

Just wanted to jump in here:

For undergrad, I double-majored in Russian and IR at an Ivy. I've applied for IR-related graduate programs twice, and while not much on my resume has changed, the funding offers I've received during my second round of applying have increased, in some cases, by more than 100%.

The first time, I applied during my senior year of undergrad for Georgetown MSFS, SSP and Columbia SIPA with the expectation that I would only go if I got Pickering. I did not get the Pickering haha. The only money I got was 50% for SSP, and I wouldn't have been able to continue taking Russian there because their "free language classes" policy does not apply to courses above the 300 level. And I didn't have an extra $600 a semester to pay for classes that wouldn't count toward my degree.

I reapplied this year for interdisciplinary M.A. program in regional studies. I got full-tuition at Yale, Columbia, and Harvard, with living stipends at two of the programs. I will continue to study Russian and start studying an additional language. I can take policy-focused courses at the Kennedy School (if I choose Harvard) or SIPA (if I choose Columbia). And I will have access to the career services center at either of the three universities. No, I'm not in D.C., but I think the other benefits far outweigh this.

TLDR: If you have language skills or a regional focus, applying to area studies programs might be a better bet than generalist IR degrees. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by lawine

[Nico Corr]

38 minutes ago, irapplicant1776 said:

The US government is just as happy to hire someone who got their MA from a cheap state school, and in any case that much debt will hinder your ability to get a security clearance.

Do private sector employers share this sentiment? 

[irapplicant1776]

1 hour ago, Nico Corr said:

Do private sector employers share this sentiment? 

I imagine not to the same extent as the government, but I'll let someone from the private sector answer that question.

[coldbrew5]

2 hours ago, irapplicant1776 said:

The US government is just as happy to hire someone who got their MA from a cheap state school, and in any case that much debt will hinder your ability to get a security clearance.

I have to disagree here. I'm a USG employee and Georgetown grad student, and when it comes to evaluating internship applications, the common assumption is that GWU and Georgetown students can handle whatever work comes their way because their programs are stellar and their professors appropriately prepare them for the field. It's just an assumption, so of course that's not true for everyone. But it did partially influence my decision to apply to Georgetown. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by coldbrew5

[ZebraFinch]

@ExponentialDecay saying it like it is. I couldn't agree more. I want to yell at people when they say they have no work experience but are willing to take on this amount of debt for a chance to maybe improve their job prospects.

2 hours ago, lawine said:

Just wanted to jump in here:

For undergrad, I double-majored in Russian and IR at an Ivy. I've applied for IR-related graduate programs twice, and while not much on my resume has changed, the funding offers I've received during my second round of applying have increased, in some cases, by more than 100%.

The first time, I applied during my senior year of undergrad for Georgetown MSFS, SSP and Columbia SIPA with the expectation that I would only go if I got Pickering. I did not get the Pickering haha. The only money I got was 50% for SSP, and I wouldn't have been able to continue taking Russian there because their "free language classes" policy does not apply to courses above the 300 level. And I didn't have an extra $600 a semester to pay for classes that wouldn't count toward my degree.

I reapplied this year for interdisciplinary M.A. program in regional studies. I got full-tuition at Yale, Columbia, and Harvard, with living stipends at two of the programs. I will continue to study Russian and start studying an additional language. I can take policy-focused courses at the Kennedy School (if I choose Harvard) or SIPA (if I choose Columbia). And I will have access to the career services center at either of the three universities. No, I'm not in D.C., but I think the other benefits far outweigh this.

TLDR: If you have language skills or a regional focus, applying to area studies programs might be a better bet than generalist IR degrees. 

I'm also doing a regional program and am pretty happy about it, but still wouldn't have gotten this degree with no/little funding. I think the general degrees are not the best idea. Also, jealous you got into the Harvard regional program... I didn't apply as I was not willing to move again, but have heard amazing things about it. 

[irapplicant1776]

56 minutes ago, coldbrew5 said:

I have to disagree here. I'm a USG employee and Georgetown grad student, and when it comes to evaluating internship applications, the common assumption is that GWU and Georgetown students can handle whatever work comes their way because their programs are stellar and their professors appropriately prepare them for the field. It's just an assumption, so of course that's not true for everyone. But it did partially influence my decision to apply to Georgetown. 

Certainly GW and Georgetown and the other elite IA schools are excellent, but how many tens of thousands of dollars more in debt are they worth? Getting into massive debt for a graduate degree at a fancy school is not a requirement for working at places like State or DOD. They actually emphasize this in their recruiting. Of course the schools in DC give you the advantage for networking and working/interning while going to school, and their reputation is helpful. But it's not get-into-debt-for-the-rest-of-your-life helpful. 

[lawine]

@ZebraFinch Yes - I would absolutely not be pursuing a regional studies master's degree without the funding. I couldn't afford it (or any degree without funding at this point in my career), and I am reluctant to take out loans. Very grateful to have gotten this aid! 

[16381776]

Not going to repeat what has been already said. I have posted on another forum my thoughts on these degrees HERE. These MA degrees in IR/IA/Security Studies are not practical degrees. They are academic in nature and it will not prepare you for a job. The degrees are not worth the debt. You are better off getting a STEM degree, even an undergrad one, to get a job in the government. Computer science, cyber, information systems, and GIS are in high demand.

[tairos]

22 hours ago, Nico Corr said:

Do private sector employers share this sentiment? 

My impression is: no.  Consulting firms buy into academic prestige cargo cultism to a great extent, because it's part of how they market their services to clients.  The problem for many of us here is that they prize the overall brand name prestige familiar to laymen -- not the arcane pecking order of professional IR programs.

21 hours ago, coldbrew5 said:

I have to disagree here. I'm a USG employee and Georgetown grad student, and when it comes to evaluating internship applications, the common assumption is that GWU and Georgetown students can handle whatever work comes their way because their programs are stellar and their professors appropriately prepare them for the field. It's just an assumption, so of course that's not true for everyone. But it did partially influence my decision to apply to Georgetown. 

I've overheard similar sentiments at my government internship as well; in fact, there was an explicit expressed preference for Georgetown students (which didn't exactly make me feel warm and fuzzy).  I suspect I got the spot largely due to my military experience.  As an aside, it's curious how the graduates of certain programs seem to pool in certain areas.  In my last security-related internship, the office was dominated by GW grads (interns and permanent staff alike).  In my current one, the interns seems to be from Georgetown or American (no GW for whatever reason).  Quirky.  

[MPA/MPP Applicant]

I'm in this predicament as well. Even with $20k funding from Heinz (MSPPM), Harris (MPP), and GWU (MPA), the programs are still $52k, $70k, and $44k per year, respectively, after including tuition and living expenses. As a recent graduate with little savings, I anticipate taking the full amount in loans. How do students expect to manage this much debt? (I expect many students still choose to attend despite receiving little to no aid.)

As a student coming from a low-income background, this decision is hard to grapple with. I am currently based in NorCal (living at home) and the related jobs are limited here compared to DC and NYC. I have also found it hard to find an "entry-level" job in even non-profit work without a master's degree. I wonder if it is worth it to re-apply next year with the hope that I will receive more funding. This is also dependent on me finding some relevant entry-level job in the bay area (since I do not have the funds to move to the East Coast).

If anyone has advice on this, I would be grateful! (though I expect it may be similar to previous posts)

[MaxwellAlum]

12 hours ago, MPA/MPP Applicant said:

I'm in this predicament as well. Even with $20k funding from Heinz (MSPPM), Harris (MPP), and GWU (MPA), the programs are still $52k, $70k, and $44k per year, respectively, after including tuition and living expenses. As a recent graduate with little savings, I anticipate taking the full amount in loans. How do students expect to manage this much debt? (I expect many students still choose to attend despite receiving little to no aid.)

As a student coming from a low-income background, this decision is hard to grapple with. I am currently based in NorCal (living at home) and the related jobs are limited here compared to DC and NYC. I have also found it hard to find an "entry-level" job in even non-profit work without a master's degree. I wonder if it is worth it to re-apply next year with the hope that I will receive more funding. This is also dependent on me finding some relevant entry-level job in the bay area (since I do not have the funds to move to the East Coast).

If anyone has advice on this, I would be grateful! (though I expect it may be similar to previous posts)

We use income-based repayment plans.  Although I was fortunate to graduate with less than $50k in debt, my spouse has over $100k.  Now that we've been in the workforce for five years, our salaries are each in the $90-$100k ranges.  We pay a combined $1,000 a month on our loans on an income-based plan.  It's a lot to pay (it'd be really nice to have that money freed up), but we're still able to save a lot for retirement and for a down payment in a relatively high cost region.  

The problem with taking out so much debt for a public policy/IR degree is that return on the investment is hard to pin down.  It's really just a foot in the door, and it's not the only way to get there.  With the right work experience/internship, nobody is going to care where (or often if) you got your masters.  

Have you considered looking into local or state government jobs?  I live in the DC area, but I work in local government.  There are definitely interesting jobs at the local level, and you are closer to the action in terms of your impact on people.  It could also put you in a better position to get scholarships for a public policy degree in the future.

[Nico Corr]

1 hour ago, MaxwellAlum said:

We use income-based repayment plans.  Although I was fortunate to graduate with less than $50k in debt, my spouse has over $100k.  Now that we've been in the workforce for five years, our salaries are each in the $90-$100k ranges.  We pay a combined $1,000 a month on our loans on an income-based plan.  It's a lot to pay (it'd be really nice to have that money freed up), but we're still able to save a lot for retirement and for a down payment in a relatively high cost region.  

The problem with taking out so much debt for a public policy/IR degree is that return on the investment is hard to pin down.  It's really just a foot in the door, and it's not the only way to get there.  With the right work experience/internship, nobody is going to care where (or often if) you got your masters.  

Have you considered looking into local or state government jobs?  I live in the DC area, but I work in local government.  There are definitely interesting jobs at the local level, and you are closer to the action in terms of your impact on people.  It could also put you in a better position to get scholarships for a public policy degree in the future.

I work for a small municipal government in the DC area as well, and can confirm it gets you a lot closer to the "action" so to speak. Whether the work has put me in a better position to get scholarships I can't say given that my academic and career interests are not closely aligned to my actual work experience. 

 

[elmo_says]

Surprised to see @ExponentialDecay being so critical of these programs, given the flak they gave me for saying something similar on a different thread. They even parroted a reference I made to Dunder Mifflin! How times have changed.

Anyhow, I agree with the majority of these comments - I can't imagine a circumstance in which 100k in loans is worth it to get an IR master's or MPP. If you're actually determined to "make it" in the public or non-profit sectors, these degrees end up hobbling you, or putting you down a very dark financial path that might not seem like a big deal when you're 25 and single and happy to live with roommates...but may seem altogether different when you're 35 or 45 and still paying off these loans. 

@gelatinskeleton's comments about the unexpected expenses that crop up in adulthood and the limits of PSLF are spot on. A few years out of my program, probably 80% of my friends who "work for the government" are actually working for contractors --- this means no PSLF, despite their often middling salaries. And the hiring environment and security clearance process is so fucked right now, that even some friends of mine who got Presidential Management Fellowships never got placed or just gave up on the process all together to do a private sector job.  A few who are really committed to becoming feds are having to work other random jobs while waiting more than a year for security clearances...

These programs are just ludicrously overpriced, there's no two ways about it. They do open some doors though, so for those who can't seem to break into this field without the degree, the best thing to do is work as hard as possible to get some fellowship money.

From my research when applying 5+ years ago, only 20-40% of students typically get scholarships from any of these schools aside from WWS (I called a bunch of them to ask...). Then some additional percentage of people get outside scholarships like Pickering / Rangel or sometimes national scholarships from European or Asian countries. 

@hola2288 - given your self-described profile and the fact that applications appear to be down this year, I would try to examine why you haven't gotten any funding, and then work hard to improve that for the next round of applications. Waiting a year might seem like forever right now, but it will be worth it if you can reduce your loan burden. FWIW, I got money from 5 programs (three top and two second-tier), and I had an OK GPA from a top undergrad, fluency in one foreign language, a few years of solid but not spectacular work experience, no time spent in DC, and a really good GRE.

At the risk of coming off as patronizing...

• Did you have a low GPA? If so, taking some extension courses or local community college courses in relevant subjects could mitigate that
• Did you have a low GRE score? Presumably you had to do OK on the SAT to get into a "fancy" undergrad - study hard and take the GRE again
• Have some people in your network give you critical feedback on your essays - maybe they're not as polished as you think
• Do the same with your resume
• Are you straight out of undergrad? If your time in DC "for work" means "unpaid summer internship"....that's not as impressive as you think. The economy is good. Find a shittily paid job at a local non-profit and work there for a year or two before reapplying. I guarantee you, you will learn a LOT about the world, probably more than you will in grad school tbh

And to give you the perspective of someone who is on the other side of this whole dilemma...

I took out just under 70k (after a 1/2 tuition fellowship, burning through my savings, various part-time jobs throughout grad school, and a little help from my parents), and I can say it had a huge impact on what kind of jobs I pursued upon graduation because I was determined to stay on a 10-year repayment plan. It basically eliminated anything non-profit or local government, and made me unwilling to deal with the vagaries and delays of the federal hiring process (and this was pre-Trump...things have only gotten worse). I entered the private sector, and have been paying off my loans on a 10-year standard schedule, and am only just starting to feel good about my financial situation a few years out after a couple of promotions and a recent job change that came with a significant salary bump. But it's still hard to say it was "worth it", because I'm not actually doing what I thought I wanted when I entered the program, and my loans were a big part of that.
 

[ExponentialDecay]

@elmo_says I don't think I'm being critical of these programs. I'm being critical of the decision to take out 100k to attend one of them. From what I recall of your post, I disagreed with your proposition that only rich international types can afford a career in DC and the many other similarly ridiculous generalizations you made.

Policy masters are useful and teach useful stuff. Some specific policy masters are a pipeline into certain careers, and if you want one of those careers, it's not a bad decision to attend one. It's a bad decision to pay 100k for one because, in the careers they prepare you for, you will never pay that investment back and because it's an investment you never need to make. In the real world, policy or otherwise, your value is in what you can do really well or in who you know. In my view, if you want to learn to do something really well, you should specialize as much as possible in that thing. That may mean a degree, or it may not. If you have a compelling reason for why a policy master's will teach you to do something really well (who am I to know all the use cases?), by all means - but I struggle to see how anything cannot be taught for cheaper. If you want to know people, meet people. Work with people on real deliverables, not as a student in school. The notion that you can't have a career in policy without a policy master's, or without a prestigious policy master's, is bullshit. If anything, people from non-traditional backgrounds - STEM, entrepreneurship, the private sector - are considered more attractive by policy employers than career bureaucrats because they have experience on the other side of the table. They can put themselves in the stakeholders' shoes. When it comes to design, the bottlenecks are often surprising - and not so easy to see unless you're directly affected by them. 

It's also bullshit that these schools don't give out significant funding. If you're competitive, you'll get money. If you aren't competitive at this stage, you will struggle later (a struggle that can be overcome, but do yourself a favor and overcome it ex ante rather than ex post). This is a good lesson to learn early: don't work for free, and don't pay to work. You want to be somewhere where your time and your contribution is valued, because those places will invest in your potential and not just use you and throw you out. This is also why I say don't go even if you can afford 100k out of pocket: education is an opportunity, not a consumable. A place that is interested in paying your way is interested in giving you opportunities (and if you've ever had to fight tooth and nail for those, you will know the force behind that statement).