Would you consider leaving your spouse behind?

[robot_hamster]

I was asking on here about the things I need to be aware of if I do decide to pursue a PhD immediately after my MS. I am still undecided, but it would have to be a decision that I make soon since I would have to apply this coming fall. Anyway, my husband is still working on his undergraduate degree. He's been going to school on and off for many years (longer than I have even known him). If he were to buckle down and go full time so he could finish, it would still take him 3 years to get his Bachelors. I have been told by several people (including professors at my current school) that I need to go somewhere else if I want to pursue a PhD. Basically, there are much better programs out there than the one there and it is better to have some diversity in your education (my bachelors and masters will be from 2 different schools, but in the same city). So I have 3 choices: wait 3 years to apply for PhD programs, apply for the PhD program at my current school, or apply to PhD programs in other locations within the US. Many of you are probably wondering why my husband doesn't just transfer. He is unwilling to transfer because he is afraid all of his credits won't transfer and his program is also one that is not offered everywhere (so it's not like he can just go anywhere). So my question is, how many of you would be willing to leave your spouse behind in order to pursue your graduate degree? I just can't imagine not seeing him all the time. He might not even be able to afford to come visit me on holidays, depending on how far away my program is. The situation makes me questions what is more important. It is sort of ironic since it was us getting married that allowed me to go to school in the first place (I finally qualified for financial aid). But now that I am in grad school, it is the thing that is holding me back.

Edited May 25, 2011 by robot_hamster

[repatriate]

robot_hamster, I think you are really hitting on it in your last sentences. This really sounds like something you need to work out with your husband in terms of what is important to each of you. What are you and he each willing to give up--proximity, education, career, relationship? What's going to make you happy and satisfied will depend on your own values and priorities. How much will you be hurt if, after you finish the first year of your PhD far away, your husband decides it is too much to be apart but he is not willing to move? Is this something that might happen? Would you quit your PhD program and go home? If you don't pursue a PhD now and end up waiting many more years for your husband to finish, will you resent your husband or will you be able to see it is as a choice that provided you with something more valuable than a degree?

As to leaving a spouse behind, I did that--but only for a year, with three visits. Yeah, I hated not seeing my spouse, but I knew it was temporary, and definitely shorter than a PhD. Our relationship is also fairly calm and independent--we haven't fought in years, and we we can remain close even when doing our own things most of the time. Those things may not be necessary for successfully living apart, but I do think they made it easier for us.

One thing to consider is that living apart will cause you will each discover new patterns, habits, and personality features that will help you live alone. In short, you will each change a little bit. For example, I took to watching TV on my computer in bed to help me fall asleep. This was hard to do once I got back home and was sharing a bed again, and I had to get used to a different way of sleeping again. But we also both became more outgoing and talkative because we didn't have each other to rely on as much. Some people find these changes upsetting. When you live with your spouse, and they change a little day by day as you see them, you grow together, and it doesn't seem sudden. But when you see your spouse after five months, and they are doing new things you never saw before and talking more, etc., it can make you feel alienated from the person you thought you were closest to and knew the most. On the other hand, you can be pleased to see your spouse thriving (or sympathetic and supportive if they are not). How would you and your respond react to these kinds of changes in each other?

I really wish you and your husband the best in this decision. It sounds like a truly stressful and difficult situation. I hope that you will find the solution that fits you both best.

Edited May 25, 2011 by repatriate

[WornOutGrad]

I'll try to say this without blasting anyone else, because I believe that it is to each their own, but I wouldn't think once of leaving my spouse behind in a million years for grad school. In fact, it is that kind of dedication I'm seeing in other people that is making me stop after my masters degree. I wouldn't even give up my girlfriend for this program (though we are doing the Long Distance thing right now... but if I had to choose her or this, I'd choose her in a heartbeat... we've been together for 7 years BTW). While my career is important, I'd rather settle for less (hopefully not too less) in the career area than sacrifice my soul mate for this.

I think that's what really scares me the most about Grad School, and academia in general. I really see people who seriously debate things like this, and for me, it's a no-brainer. That doesn't mean that one is better than the other, but I also realize that if people are that willing to give up something so special in order to succeed in academia (or that they would even consider it), than I have no chance in competing against them for funding... and frankly, I don't even want to try. They will be happier with science, and I'll be happier with my wife.

Again, this is just my opinion for my situation. I do not think less of anyone else for their opinion. But I will say this, the thought that academics would even consider leaving a spouse behind to further their studies at this point has shaken me to my core. That scares me even more than the Carreria letter.

[StrangeLight]

conversely, if your girlfriend or your husband or whomever is really your soul mate, then you can easily survive 3 years apart. if you trust each other and you're both whole enough to get through a day to day routine without needing another body next to you, then you'll be fine. it'll suck, for sure. and you'll miss him/her, for sure. but when you do visit, the sex will be awesome. you'll also learn to prioritize your conversations and your gripes. you'll learn to let a lot of small stuff go because it's not worth arguing about when you're miles apart or only have two days together.

i guess i just bristle at comments like "i would never give up my soul mate for my work." you don't have to. moving away doesn't mean an end of your relationship. to be completely fair, i'm projecting from a conversation i had with a friend who is considering breaking up with her "soul mate" because he "insists" on leaving town for 8 months to do his dissertation research abroad (he needs to go, no "insisting" about it). but, anyway... a few years apart does not have to end a strong relationship.

all that said... tell your husband to just transfer. or give up the bachelor's. i don't want to be insensitive, but you said he's been going to university since before he met you. but by going full-time, he'd still have 3 years of classes to complete. was he taking 1 class a semester for 5 years? at that rate, it would take him 15 years to finish the bachelor degree. it would be unfair of him to have you give up or severely hinder your goal of a PhD because he's crawling through a BA and doesn't want to lose those credits. if he's actually thinking of going full-time to finish up, wouldn't it be better for him to do 3.5 years or 4 years at a university close to you than live apart for 3 years because of his fear over transfer credits? even though he's been going to school forever, he is still VERY far from finishing. he may as well start over and live with his wife.

[Eigen]

I know my wife and I will do a year or two apart in the future, possibly more... We're both in PhD programs, she started a year behind me, and her program is a year longer. I'll be working on my post-docs when she's finishing up (2 years or so) and then ideally she can get a post-doc at the same place... If not, it'll be a longer separation than 2 years.

But we've been married for almost 5 years now, and we both are good at writing/calling when we aren't together... I'm not thinking it will be wonderful, but I think we can definitely get through it OK.

[robot_hamster]

I don't feel I would necessarily be choosing my education over my husband. If someone were to give up on the relationship, I don't think it would be me. I did spend some time away from him to do a little studying abroad, but it wasn't anything major (= it wasn't 3 years). I do wonder how he would handle it. It's not like I don't trust him, of course I do. But I imagine it would be hard for him. It would be hard for both of us. I worry that one of us would be tempted to drop out after a year of being apart because we would miss each other too much. I also wonder how my parents or his parents would react. I'm afraid they would think I was being unreasonable or selfish. They can be especially critical at times, unfortunately.

StrangeLight - You're actually being kind of generous.

[emmm]

I've been married for over 20 years, so when I started thinking about grad school I only considered programs that were near home. Of course, I would have preferred having the freedom to apply anywhere, but it wouldn't have made sense for my husband to give up his job and find a new one at this point in his career, and I wasn't willing for us to live apart. If the grad school applications hadn't worked out, I would have tried again (still staying local), and if it still hadn't worked out, I would have found something else to do.

[robot_hamster]

I've been married for over 20 years, so when I started thinking about grad school I only considered programs that were near home. Of course, I would have preferred having the freedom to apply anywhere, but it wouldn't have made sense for my husband to give up his job and find a new one at this point in his career, and I wasn't willing for us to live apart. If the grad school applications hadn't worked out, I would have tried again (still staying local), and if it still hadn't worked out, I would have found something else to do.

I completely understand. I applied at the one and only place close to home that offered my program because I felt I was pretty much stuck where I am. But now that I am half way through a masters, I'm beginning to realize that it isn't a good fit for me. There are better places I could have applied. So that it why I am struggling with this so much. Do I just keep going there anyway (enter their PhD program)? Apply somewhere better and potentially leave my husband behind? Or do I wait 3 years and risk not going back (who knows what will happen in 3 years)? I feel very conflicted about the whole thing and it seems like you can relate to that.

[Eigen]

On the other hand, it's only 3 years. And you'll be able to go visit. Almost half of my department is doing long distance relationships, most work it out so they can go back and visit every 3-4 weeks.

And I assume from your post that when he finishes in 3 years he'll be able to move and join you?

I understand the reluctance at being separated, but it's not like you're going into a permanent separation, or won't be able to see each other quite often.

[robot_hamster]

Probably not every 3 or 4 weeks. We wouldn't be within driving distance, someone would have to fly. Hehe!

[Eigen]

Probably not every 3 or 4 weeks. We wouldn't be within driving distance, someone would have to fly. Hehe!

The ones I'm talking about are 15+ hour drives apart and mostly fly, so it still applies.

Apparently if you book well in advance and frequently, the combination of bonus miles and cheap fairs makes it fairly reasonable. A lot of it depends on how close you are to major airports, though, I guess. It all depends on priorities, what funds you have available, and other things... But it's definitely possible. If you can get tickets that are around $300, you're talking about around $3600 a year... Or around 10,800 over the three years you'll be separated. It's a lot, but could very well be worth it. If your spouse is working, and you have a decent assistantship, and you budget it in, it's certainly doable.

I'll also add that in most cases, you can probably work it out to take a few extended stays at home- there are always times you need to be writing, working up data, etc. I know one friend that has worked out some collaborations at the university where his SO is, so he can take an extra few weeks around Christmas/Summer, and do some work through labs up there. And this is in the lab sciences, so much harder to work from a distance.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Eigen

[robot_hamster]

Tickets for $300? Do those even exist? I've never heard of tickets that cheap! LOL Maybe you're right, maybe you have to live near a major airport (which I don't).

[emmm]

It's hard enough staying connected when we're both living in the same house, given our busy schedules. If we had to fly to see each other ... I just don't see it being a good setup for us. It might be easier to focus on work, though, if you're apart most of the time. If you have no options locally, you're definitely in a tough spot. I don't really have any advice, because I think whether you can handle a long-distance relationship or not is something only you and your spouse can decide. I have known people who managed it successfully.

I feel very fortunate that things worked out for me. If they hadn't, I would have been able to study at a school 5+ hours away, but I don't think I'd have considered that. I might have gone for a masters in a different field at a different local school -- a much less competitive program, so it would have probably been a sure thing (just might have been too expensive -- though I could have probably continued working to pay for it). I looked into various options because I thought it was entirely possible that I wouldn't get in anywhere. While none of the alternatives I came up with was ideal, I was happy to know that there were options.

[IRdreams]

Tickets for $300? Do those even exist? I've never heard of tickets that cheap! LOL Maybe you're right, maybe you have to live near a major airport (which I don't).

My roomate regularly flies to visit her girlfriend from a small airport to another small airport several states away for less than $200. Book way in advance and it is super cheap.

[robot_hamster]

What airline did they use? I went to Southwest's website and picked a date way in advance and the price is still $500. Southwest is usually considered cheap.

[newms]

What airline did they use? I went to Southwest's website and picked a date way in advance and the price is still $500. Southwest is usually considered cheap.

Believe it or not http://www.cheapflights.com/ actually works! I was surprised when I tried it the first time and found some really good fares.

[StrangeLight]

check http://www.kayak.com

it searches most other airline websites and travel search engines at once and pulls up the best fares. you can check way in advance and get email alerts when the fares drop.

of course you wouldn't see flights regularly under $300 if all you ever do is check one or two airlines' fares. i guess you guys don't travel abroad for research? everyone i know lives on these websites checking airfare months in advance.

[StrangeLight]

but i would also still suggest trying to convince your husband to move schools and transfer his credits. i really don't see how 3.5-4 more years of school living with his wife (if his current credits don't all transfer) is worse than 3 more years of school living apart from his wife. he's going to have to realize that in this particular situation, his education isn't the priority; yours is. highest degree = highest priority.

[robot_hamster]

No, we don't travel much for anything. We can't afford to buy plane tickets since we are pretty much just getting by on my stipend and part-time job. Thank you for the suggestions though.

Strangelight - I think I'm going to look around at some other programs to see what schools also offer his program. I currently only have 3 in mind and one of those does not offer his program at all. Maybe if there are more options, he might be more open minded.

One more question: Would it be a good idea to apply to schools anyway just to see if I can get accepted? I hate to apply places and then turn around and say I'm going to wait a year or two. But at the same time, I have no idea if I will even be accepted. I might be working myself up for nothing. LOL

[Lmorgan]

I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing. I work at a small Christian College in Michigan, and we have a number of African men who come from Kenya, Zambia and the like to go to school. Many of them leave a wife and several children behind, often returning only once over the course of their bachelor's degree to visit. For these men, there is a huge payoff when they return to Africa if they graduate. Having been educated in the U.S. gives them alot of credibility back home and they believe it prepares them for ministry. They often use Skype and calling cards to communicate. They love their families but they seem to have a sense of a higher calling. Not sure If I agree or if I would be strong enough to do it. Is the payoff worth missing your kid's first steps? (Not sure if there are children in your relationship or not).

[robot_hamster]

No, we don't have any kids. We have pets though and I think that might be a source of conflict. Neither of us would want to be separated from our animals, especially our dog. She is getting old and I would be heartbroken if she were to die and I wasn't here with her. I think my husband would feel the same way if I were to take her with me.

[Katzenmusik]

I'll be honest -- there is no career or graduate program that could be worth leaving my partner behind for years on end.

Is there a reason you must go directly to the PhD from the MS? Would it not be possible to work a few years in between and let your husband fulfill his educational goal before you move away?

Edited June 2, 2011 by Katzenmusik

[robot_hamster]

I have actually been watching for jobs over the past year. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of options where I live. I see job postings but most of the time they are on the opposite side of the state anyway. I guess my biggest fear is that I won't be able to find employment and I wouldn't be able to pay my student loans. Going directly to a PhD program would at least solve that problem, although it would only be delaying the inevitable. It really seems like we would have to move somewhere else anyway just so I could get a decent job.

[ZeeMore21]

I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing. I work at a small Christian College in Michigan, and we have a number of African men who come from Kenya, Zambia and the like to go to school. Many of them leave a wife and several children behind, often returning only once over the course of their bachelor's degree to visit. For these men, there is a huge payoff when they return to Africa if they graduate. Having been educated in the U.S. gives them alot of credibility back home and they believe it prepares them for ministry. They often use Skype and calling cards to communicate. They love their families but they seem to have a sense of a higher calling. Not sure If I agree or if I would be strong enough to do it. Is the payoff worth missing your kid's first steps? (Not sure if there are children in your relationship or not).

I strongly disagree about this being a "cultural" issue....and I wouldn't go that far in generalizing the immigrant experience. But I will say that sometimes you have to do difficult things, like leaving your family, in order to work toward making a living. I'm sure no one enjoys being away from loved ones, but when it comes down to it, you have to do what you have to do.

In my opinion, I think that it sounds about time for the OP to fulfill her goals and dreams...for the partner to be taking this long working on his degree makes me a little worried he will run out of patience to actually finish it.

Edited June 2, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[KM3]

I wish people wouldn't pass judgement on other people's decisions, somehow implying that they have their priorities out of line by choosing to embark on training that will not only better their own future prospects, but those of their families as well. There are a lot of factors that go into making these decisions and they aren't made lightly or without much deliberation. They aren't "no brainers." I believe each person does what is best for themselves and their families, even if the decision itself can be agonizing to make. There are far too many variable and personal factors for anyone to devalue a person's decision to work towards a higher degree even if it means temporary separation.

No matter who I have talked to, anyone who is not single has had to compromise or make sacrifices to earn a higher degree with a family or partner. My dissertation topic is fairly specialized and I only applied to a handful of programs, the closest of which are six hours from where I live now with my partner. Believe me, I am not looking forward to being apart for a year until she can move with me, but I understand it is the best for me to work forward on my phD and for her to plan her next career move/education move so we can build the future we want together.

I am deeply sympathetic to anyone in that position. As so many have said, it's not about ending the relationship but a temporary separation. While not desirable, it's certainly doable.

OP, I know it seems tough, but think about this long term. What is the best for your financial future together (I would say higher degree) and what about your emotional happiness? Your career has a lot to do with that. No one can tell you what is best, but if this is something you really want to do, I think your spouse should support it and help you figure out a way that it works for you both.

Edited June 5, 2011 by KM3