Grad school makes me want to kill myself

[Eigen]

There are times grad school wasn't as bad - like when I accidentally do my work correctly. Then I feel smart and useful for about half a second. And heck, even though I likely can't afford it and it will cause my grades to plummet even more, I am actually looking forward to going to New York in October...mostly because I can see the few people in class I like talking to, and I can go to some cool stores and do some familiar sight-seeing, but it's a start.

And honestly, lack of time to to things or be around others is only from my own experience. My program is pretty jam-packed because it's made for working people - basically cram a whole semester into 4-10 days so people can go back to their jobs without getting fired. I digress.

WornOutGrad, people here think I am a substandard member, student, and human being because I hold a different viewpoint than them, but I truly only speak from experience and I do try and not allow my resentment and bitterness show through in all my posts (sometimes it does). But within much of my griping are really just some realistic and practical words. No one sees that, though, because I've been labeled high-school-style as an abnormal emo who should not be taken seriously. It's kinda cute.

Anyway, this isn't about me, this is about you. Grad school will drain you in every sense of the word, and if you don't like being there, the effects will worsen ten-fold. For those who are head over heels (this phrase doesn't even make sense, but you understand what I mean) about being grad students, the sacrifices and loss of money and time and such are all worth it and may make you feel accomplished at the end of the day. I still stand by my suggestion of slowing down to part-time or taking classes online (if possible) to maybe lift some of the burden. I think that may allow for enough wiggle room in your day-to-day schedule to pursue what you want without losing out completely on a social life. Or if need be, take a break, catch up on things in real life, and really sit down and think about if you are getting more out of grad school than it's taking away from you. People have already said that, but I do concur with those sentiments. I'm sure that is wrong, though, since I am just too unstable in the head to offer advice on anything.

No career (or time spend pursuing it) is worth it is if's going to destroy you. I hope you're able to find whatever answer is right for you. (hugs)

You say you're just speaking from your experience, but then you generalize.

Grad school does not drain everyone in every sense of the word, nor does it have to. Sacrifices have to be made, but the number and severity varies hugely based on the program and the individual- sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself and say you won't make the sacrifices that are being asked of you.

Since you are in Art, and the OP is in the sciences, some of your suggestions (part time, classes online) are less applicable, since lab work is the primary component of their work now, something that can rarely be done part time or online.

I think the better advice to Wornoutgrad is to just start scheduling time into your schedule for yourself, and making sure you take it. Put in a solid 8-10 hours of work, and then stop. Turn it off. Spend time with friends, skype with family. Or, work longer days for a few weeks and then take the time off to go home and visit. Have confidence that you're putting the time into your work, and that when you do you can put time into yourself as well. For your continued sanity and productivity, nothing is more important than making sure you have enough time to keep yourself going.

[ktel]

WornOutGrad, people here think I am a substandard member, student, and human being because I hold a different viewpoint than them, but I truly only speak from experience and I do try and not allow my resentment and bitterness show through in all my posts (sometimes it does). But within much of my griping are really just some realistic and practical words. No one sees that, though, because I've been labeled high-school-style as an abnormal emo who should not be taken seriously. It's kinda cute.

We don't think you are a substandard member, student or human being, but you are allowing yourself to live a substandard life.

No career (or time spend pursuing it) is worth it is if's going to destroy you. I hope you're able to find whatever answer is right for you. (hugs)

Maybe you should take your own advice.

[Mal83]

I'm following ktel and calling "bullshit!" on this. As evidenced by your posts on this website, your grad school experience has been depressing, but it's because you *don't* want to be there and have spent the majority of your grad school experience bemoaning trite things that are ubiquitous in grad school (you have to maintain a B average, etc). It's impossible for you to state that "it is depressing, even if you want to be there." You have no idea what it's like to enjoy grad school, and unless you change your attitude, you never will.

Just have to echo what a few have said already, JustMe, do you think you're in any position to be giving advice to anyone who is actually interested in grad school or has any kind of investment in it? This isn't meant to be rude or condescending, I'm asking out of curiosity. If you never wanted to be there from the onset and haven't found any redeeming qualities in something that should be your choice to do or not do then what can you offer someone who is very torn between leaving and staying? It's only depressing because you hate being there and won't do anything to get out, not because it's inherently soul crushing. I just don't think your characterizations are at all fair, accurate, or indicative of the average experience. Do the other people in your program share the same sentiment? Probably not or they wouldn't still be there. Your perspective/mindset is particularly miserable and not of appreciation for grad school for very specific reasons and therefore not all that applicable to the average experience or advice seeker. You have to understand that on some level. No one around here has even suggested that you're substandard in anyway, especially in terms of being a human being, that would not be OK for anyone to do. But based on everything you have revealed about yourself in this forum, it is clear that you're not in a position to offer any kind of encouragement or support other than "get out before grad school kills your soul." The admonishment directed your way is a result of the constant stream of negatively that flows from you in regards to grad school, which is still a little baffling being that this is of course a forum dedicated to the positive nature of it.

Someone who has a passion for their studies doesn't need to hear that higher education will drain them of everything they have inside them. That's over the top, they're looking for ways to figure out what to do to alleviate their anxiety over it, not remove it from their lives completely and forever. And even if WornOutGrad decides to give it up entirely, that's a change that he's willing and able to make for the better. If you made a real effort to do the same you might start to find joy in your life... hey just sayin'

Edited August 3, 2011 by Mal83

[StrangeLight]

some of you may be unfamiliar with wider message board culture. what just me is doing is called trolling.

don't feed the troll. don't respond. it's not sincere.

[robot_hamster]

WornOutGrad - I wanted to respond to this thread again since my first response was so short (wasn't at my computer) and I wasn't sure how serious you were. I just wanted to let you know that I completely understand how you feel. I have been struggling with grad school as well and I even posted about it on here before. I have been depressed and the fact that my program isn't a good fit for me has made things worse. A degree of stress is normal, but depression is not all that uncommon. I am glad to hear that you have been seeing a therapist. Having someone to talk to really does help, or at least it does for me. It seems that you are at a crossroad and you need to make a decision based on what is best for you. I agree with most of what others have said in this thread and I think they have offered very good advice. Everyone in grad school has a different experience and some people find out that grad school just isn't the right path for them. I have decided to stick it out for 2 more semesters to finish my MS. After that, I think I have decided to take a bit of a breather. I can always decide later on if continuing on is what I really want to do. I made the decision that I felt was right for me and my situation. Only you know what if best for you and only you can make the decision that is right for you. I hope things get better for you.

[WornOutGrad]

Wow, that makes me feel a little nervous because of the trollface I have as my pic. With that said, I don't intend on trolling on here.

I really need to hear from people that just because I'm not willing to spend 70-80 hours in a lab each week, or fulfill my advisers PhD ambitions (that she so thruougly expressed to me just today), that I'm not a bad student. I want to get married, have children and enjoy life and I'm seriously afraid that if I go further in my grad studies, that I'll never be allowed to do those things, which honestly mean more to me.

[robot_hamster]

Believe me, you're not a bad student. Your adviser just has expectations that are way too high for the average person. Don't feel bad. And a lot of people are just like you and want to get married/have families. That is one (but not the only) reason why people go to grad school in the first place. They want to have a better life and a better job so they can have a sense of security when they decide to start a family or for the family that they already have.

[runonsentence]

WornOutGrad: it's a sign of strength and insight that you know what you want and can articulate it. Now what's left for you to do is to go after it.

If school doesn't make you happy, then find the path that will—and don't look back. Degrees don't define us.

[Eigen]

Wow, that makes me feel a little nervous because of the trollface I have as my pic. With that said, I don't intend on trolling on here.

I really need to hear from people that just because I'm not willing to spend 70-80 hours in a lab each week, or fulfill my advisers PhD ambitions (that she so thruougly expressed to me just today), that I'm not a bad student. I want to get married, have children and enjoy life and I'm seriously afraid that if I go further in my grad studies, that I'll never be allowed to do those things, which honestly mean more to me.

That's what I've been trying to get across, but let me re-iterate: You can get married, have children and enjoy life while working on a PhD. You don't need to spend 70-80 hours in the lab each week, and if your advisor is too driven, perhaps you should consider finding someone a bit less so- finish your MS with her, look elsewhere for your PhD. Work hard when you're in lab, work reasonable hours (8-10 hours per day, 5 days per week, maybe a few hours on the weekend), and let it go when you "clock out". Sometimes projects will take you outside of your schedule, but it shouldn't be an all the time thing.

At some point, you have to make a conscious choice which is more important to you- your degree and career, or the rest of your life. You have obviously chosen the latter option- so don't feel bad about it. It's the choice I made when I started grad school, and it's worked well for me- my advisor is happy, I work hard the 50-60 hours per week I'm in lab, and I enjoy my hobbies and my family when I'm not. This course doesn't mean you can't be successful, either- I won both outstanding graduate student in my department and an NSF graduate fellowship, so the two aren't mutually exclusive at all.

I find separating your work and home life is very important- I almost never take work home with me. If I have a project that I need to work on in the evening, I go back to my office. This makes "home" a space for the rest of my life- I'm not carting around papers, trying to work from a desk in my bedroom, or anything else. When I walk out of my lab/office and close the door, I'm done for the time being. I know a few German grad students that work like this- they come in at 8 or 9, work a solid 8-9 hours and get a lot done, and then they're off. They enjoy their evenings and their weekends, while still getting their work done, it seems to be the norm for them.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Eigen

[ZeeMore21]

That's what I've been trying to get across, but let me re-iterate: You can get married, have children and enjoy life while working on a PhD. You don't need to spend 70-80 hours in the lab each week, and if your advisor is too driven, perhaps you should consider finding someone a bit less so- finish your MS with her, look elsewhere for your PhD. Work hard when you're in lab, work reasonable hours (8-10 hours per day, 5 days per week, maybe a few hours on the weekend), and let it go when you "clock out". Sometimes projects will take you outside of your schedule, but it shouldn't be an all the time thing.

At some point, you have to make a conscious choice which is more important to you- your degree and career, or the rest of your life. You have obviously chosen the latter option- so don't feel bad about it. It's the choice I made when I started grad school, and it's worked well for me- my advisor is happy, I work hard the 50-60 hours per week I'm in lab, and I enjoy my hobbies and my family when I'm not. This course doesn't mean you can't be successful, either- I won both outstanding graduate student in my department and an NSF graduate fellowship, so the two aren't mutually exclusive at all.

I find separating your work and home life is very important- I almost never take work home with me. If I have a project that I need to work on in the evening, I go back to my office. This makes "home" a space for the rest of my life- I'm not carting around papers, trying to work from a desk in my bedroom, or anything else. When I walk out of my lab/office and close the door, I'm done for the time being. I know a few German grad students that work like this- they come in at 8 or 9, work a solid 8-9 hours and get a lot done, and then they're off. They enjoy their evenings and their weekends, while still getting their work done, it seems to be the norm for them.

Great post Eigen, I found it very helpful.

[WornOutGrad]

That's what I've been trying to get across, but let me re-iterate: You can get married, have children and enjoy life while working on a PhD. You don't need to spend 70-80 hours in the lab each week, and if your advisor is too driven, perhaps you should consider finding someone a bit less so- finish your MS with her, look elsewhere for your PhD. Work hard when you're in lab, work reasonable hours (8-10 hours per day, 5 days per week, maybe a few hours on the weekend), and let it go when you "clock out". Sometimes projects will take you outside of your schedule, but it shouldn't be an all the time thing.

At some point, you have to make a conscious choice which is more important to you- your degree and career, or the rest of your life. You have obviously chosen the latter option- so don't feel bad about it. It's the choice I made when I started grad school, and it's worked well for me- my advisor is happy, I work hard the 50-60 hours per week I'm in lab, and I enjoy my hobbies and my family when I'm not. This course doesn't mean you can't be successful, either- I won both outstanding graduate student in my department and an NSF graduate fellowship, so the two aren't mutually exclusive at all.

I find separating your work and home life is very important- I almost never take work home with me. If I have a project that I need to work on in the evening, I go back to my office. This makes "home" a space for the rest of my life- I'm not carting around papers, trying to work from a desk in my bedroom, or anything else. When I walk out of my lab/office and close the door, I'm done for the time being. I know a few German grad students that work like this- they come in at 8 or 9, work a solid 8-9 hours and get a lot done, and then they're off. They enjoy their evenings and their weekends, while still getting their work done, it seems to be the norm for them.

Great post Eigen! It means alot to me! <3

[Just me]

How mature - someone disagrees with you or has a different experience from you and they are nothing more than a troll. Good to see we're all adults here.

I do apologize for derailing your topic, WornOutGrad. I really just do not wish to see you being as miserable as I am if you allow people to coerce you into an academic life you may not even want to have and miss out on other non-academic life experiences as a result. Yeah, I know...I should take my own advice, but sometimes things are truly easier said than they are done. Besides, I have found that many advisers just throw around the need to get more schooling like it's nothing to spend eight more years and $100K more for an even higher degree. Probably because some of them have no idea what kind of work attaining such a degree entails and they think it's little more than going to the store and picking up a new degree like it's a pair of shoes.

Nobody here can really say what's best for you, though. And believe me, I would be homicidal if I had to spend 50-60 hours a week in school. I'd be in class from about 8-5 (one hour for each lunch and dinner) and in class I'll do...something. Might not even be schoolwork. Sometimes I'd get frustrated as hell trying to think and I'd need to cleanse my palate (and palette) creatively...I might sit for a half hour and just do something for me. Just for fun. No rhyme or reason. In my case, it'd be putting on some good music and making a little doodle. So I can assure you, you're not a bad student because you don't work yourself into the nearest nut house. And I don't think it's so much you wouldn't ever be able to do the things you yearn to do...it's just if you went even further in your studies, you might not be able to do them in the very near future, or do them as efficiently as you'd like to. If you try to do work, school, and family life (marriage, children, etc.) all at once, you may find yourself burning out swiftly and one (or all) of those things being neglected.

Personally, I could have had a job in undergrad (I know, it's not the same), but I chose not to because I knew I could not handle working and school. I did freelance here and there, but even then sometimes I really felt burned out. I think the best thing I could possibly say is if you're happy, or at least happy more often than not, you're doing things right. I'm sorry that's not the case for you now, though. As said, I hope you can find the balance in life that will let you be truly content, whether that's staying in school, taking a break, or going on to another degree. No one but you can make that call, but you know you better than any of us. Sorry for the rambling, though; I hope it made even a little sense.

However, since I am a troll, my opinions are completely invalid.

[ktel]

^ That was the best post I've ever seen you make!

[Mal83]

2nd vote up for Just me...you're on a roll now, before you know it you'll have a + in front of that reputation score!

[WornOutGrad]

Props to you Just Me! I may be struggling, but I want to try hard to enjoy life! Keep your head up girl!

[Zorah]

There is only one answer. Quit school and go back home. There is no need to continue at something that is making you unhappy. Quit.

[long_time_lurker]

Ditto what Zorah said. Family comes first.

I would try to finish the Master's program though because in Meteorology, both from my cursory check now and from when I was interested in it when I started undergrad 15 years ago, you basically need a Master's to get a job. If you only have a year left, let's say, I think you can tough it out if you know come next year you'll be home and done with the experience. There's definitely no need though to torture yourself and do a PhD (or at least not where you are) or to work in some lunatic's lab.

[UnlikelyGrad]

I am going to go along with what Eigen said.

There is really no need for you to be depressed in grad school. Being depressed is NOT a sign that you should quit grad school (I strongly disagree with those who say it is)--it's a sign that you need to change both your situation AND the way you deal with life.

Lousy advisor? Yes, definitely finish your master's and do a PhD elsewhere. Or switch advisors if possible. A bad advisor is poisonous, from what I've seen in those around me. That is an example of changing your circumstances.

Changing the way you deal with life is another way to kill depression. Going to the campus counseling center has helped me. Exercising has helped me. Changing my diet has helped me. Getting rid of toxic people in my life has helped me.

Also, like Eigen, I do try to compartmentalize my life--as much as possible. I do occasionally have to run down to lab to do something late at night (usually just a quick job, 15 min or so, getting something started for the following day), but in these cases I try to take one of my kids with me so we can have a one-on-one conversation. Of course, my advisor is totally supportive of this, as she has the same sort of attitude that I do. Basically, I try to work my butt off while I'm at school, get as much done as possible, so that I can get more done than people who don't organize their time well.

[qbtacoma]

Unlikely Grad, I just got warm fuzzies thinking about you taking your kid to the lab for one-on-one time. I loved spending downtime with my parents like that growing up, and I'm sure your kids will look back fondly on that someday.

[UnlikelyGrad]

Unlikely Grad, I just got warm fuzzies thinking about you taking your kid to the lab for one-on-one time. I loved spending downtime with my parents like that growing up, and I'm sure your kids will look back fondly on that someday.

Aww, thanks. My dad did that with me, so I'm just carrying on the tradition.

[MoJingly]

Aww, thanks. My dad did that with me, so I'm just carrying on the tradition.

Your kids will either love or hate lab work in the end...

I bet they'll love it.

[ktel]

Your kids will either love or hate lab work in the end...

I bet they'll love it.

I bet they'll start off saying they hate it and then grow up to realize they love it. That's what happened to me and rugby anyways. After getting dragged around to games, practices and other events I was adamant as a child that I would never play. Look at me now

[UnlikelyGrad]

I bet they'll start off saying they hate it and then grow up to realize they love it.

Yup. That's exactly what happened to me.

[IRdreams]

Aww, thanks. My dad did that with me, so I'm just carrying on the tradition.

My mom took me to her chem lab when I was a toddler. Though I am not a scientist, I still associate that concrete chemical smell with warm fuzzies. Also, stable removers great snake toys.

[Mal83]

Wow, this thread has certainly done a 180 from grad school makes me want to kill myself to...grad school gives me the warm fuzzies inside. That's pretty cool.