Post-Acceptance Stress & Misc. Banter

[sebastiansteddy]

Hmm. All this talk of money makes me worry about my (currently only) offer. How do people feel about partially funded MA programs? Let me clarify, the first year is partially funded, with promise of full funding the second year (with a 2-1 teaching load). Is it worth it to do a program funded as such? 

 

So. Much. Anxiety.

 

I really think it depends on your situation. I attended an unfunded MA that was very inexpensive, but I had no debt from undergrad. I really wanted to attend this MA program and knew that it would provide a valuable experience. I am much less in debt now than most of my friends who have not gone on to grad school. I learned a lot while doing my MA, and I am very glad I did it. That being said, there is no way I'd attend a PhD program where I'd have to take on more debt. 

 

But just think about it, and see if it's right for you.

[Fishbucket]

So, you'd prefer to not eat so you don't fall into a cliché? I'm in agreement with the idea of following the money when you can do so, but that's not a good option for everybody, and not everybody even gets offered "big" money to follow. Food stamps are there for a reason, and it shouldn't be embarrassing to take advantage of them if you need to. 

 

No, what I was saying is I'd like to make enough money that I don't qualify for foodstamps. I'd like to not need government welfare assistance in order to get a graduate degree.

[Fishbucket]

True. All else equal, money is definitely a big factor to consider, perhaps the deciding factor. But--perhaps--future job prospects is an even more important factor. 

 

The truth is, the best programs with the best placement records tend to have the best resources available for their grad students. They aren't generally the ones paying poverty wages. The standard funding package at top-10 schools is $20-25k plus summer funding and no teaching until at least the 2nd year.

[ErnestPWorrell]

And in terms of the definition of poverty, for a single person an income of $12,000 is the poverty line. If you're in a couple with no children the level is $15,000. So based purely on the numbers, the UT-Austin stipend is poverty wages.

 

I know a couple of UT-Austin English PhD students who live, at least in part, off loans even though they're "fully funded." I also know that at least some UT-Austin PhD students seek additional (on top of their English department job) employment through the university in order to make ends meet (tutoring, TA'ing for other departments, etc.) But that's not to say that everyone lives off loans or that everyone works multiple jobs. I can say that the UT-Austin PhD students I spoke to told me that they felt as though both loans and familial financial support are hush-hush topics among the people in their program. I can't comment to how the Austin situation compares to other English programs.

Edited February 27, 2013 by ErnestPWorrell

[dazedandbemused]

I know a couple of UT-Austin English PhD students who live, at least in part, off loans even though they're "fully funded." I also know that at least some UT-Austin PhD students seek additional (on top of their English department job) employment through the university in order to make ends meet (tutoring, TA'ing for other departments, etc.) But that's not to say that everyone lives off loans or that everyone works multiple jobs. I can say that the UT-Austin PhD students I spoke to told me that they felt as though both loans and familial financial support are hush-hush topics among the people in their program. I can't comment to how the Austin situation compares to other English programs.

 

See, this is interesting. I believe you've said at one point that UT was your dream program, right? I know someone said something about cognitive dissonance earlier, but considering that so many people seem to have turned down better offers to go to UT, knowing the financial possibilities, I have a hard time believing that that is the case. I really can't wait to find out what seems to draw people to it so strongly. Fit and atmosphere are basically synonymous for me, because I need a lot more than world-class academics to be happy; like Swagato said, I want my future program to be full of people and things that I can feel personally connected to. I don't know if either of my schools can do that, but if one of them can that's where I'll be going, regardless of the money.

[ErnestPWorrell]

See, this is interesting. I believe you've said at one point that UT was your dream program, right? I know someone said something about cognitive dissonance earlier, but considering that so many people seem to have turned down better offers to go to UT, knowing the financial possibilities, I have a hard time believing that that is the case. I really can't wait to find out what seems to draw people to it so strongly. Fit and atmosphere are basically synonymous for me, because I need a lot more than world-class academics to be happy; like Swagato said, I want my future program to be full of people and things that I can feel personally connected to. I don't know if either of my schools can do that, but if one of them can that's where I'll be going, regardless of the money.

 

Personally, if I get in, I'm going to go. I figure I can take out small loans to live on, if need be, and pay those back down the road. That really doesn't bother me. And I like teaching a lot, so the higher-than-average teaching load doesn't bother me. Anyways, I'm almost guaranteed to make more money with my MA (working in the appropriate field, of course) than I will with an English PhD in academia. But I would be miserable. So there's that. In the words of Jay-Z, "What's 50 grand to a mothafucka like me, can you please remind me?" 

[asleepawake]

I remember that UT funds their MFA students crazy generously, so I just checked their website and sure enough, they offer a stipend of 27k. Funding probably comes from different places for each problem, but that seems like an awfully big discrepancy.

 

I had no undergrad loans, so I did take some out to help during my "funded" MA. I think this is pretty common for places with stipends in the 8k to 15k range.

 

No, what I was saying is I'd like to make enough money that I don't qualify for foodstamps. I'd like to not need government welfare assistance in order to get a graduate degree.

 

Well, ideally, yes, of course I agree. Although if you are attending a public school, your stipend is government funding. When we're talking about having options, this makes sense. But if you are planning on turning down an offer because you assume you can't live on your stipend, I just wanted to point out that there is at least a bit of assistance available if your stipend is low enough that you would qualify.

[ErnestPWorrell]

I remember that UT funds their MFA students crazy generously, so I just checked their website and sure enough, they offer a stipend of 27k. Funding probably comes from different places for each problem, but that seems like an awfully big discrepancy.

 

I had no undergrad loans, so I did take some out to help during my "funded" MA. I think this is pretty common for places with stipends in the 8k to 15k range.

 

 

Well, ideally, yes, of course I agree. Although if you are attending a public school, your stipend is government funding. When we're talking about having options, this makes sense. But if you are planning on turning down an offer because you assume you can't live on your stipend, I just wanted to point out that there is at least a bit of assistance available if your stipend is low enough that you would qualify.

 

I dunno about the MFA folks. English students get $27k/year for a 20-hour TA gig, with a good chuck of that money going towards tuition. The leftovers show up on 9 monthly paychecks. 

[Fishbucket]

I wouldn't count tuition remission as a part of pay. The only income that counts is the income you're getting in your pocket.

[GuateAmfeminist]

My husband and I both live off of UT stipends and are able to save money every month and don't have to (and won't ever need, unless some catastrophe happens) take out loans or have secondary employment. What we save over the 9 months would pay for our summer even if we both had absolutely no funding from the uni or another job. It is helpful that if we needed it, we have a good chunk of savings from our three years of teaching. Our parents don't and couldn't help us financially if we needed it. And I can still have Starbucks coffee and little luxuries. It's just common sense budgeting. But that's just my experience and perspective to share with you all. Things would be different if we had a child; I don't think you could live successfully off of this funding in that case without outside help. 

[AurantiacaStella]

My husband and I both live off of UT stipends and are able to save money every month and don't have to (and won't ever need, unless some catastrophe happens) take out loans or have secondary employment. What we save over the 9 months would pay for our summer even if we both had absolutely no funding from the uni or another job. It is helpful that if we needed it, we have a good chunk of savings from our three years of teaching. Our parents don't and couldn't help us financially if we needed it. And I can still have Starbucks coffee and little luxuries. It's just common sense budgeting. But that's just my experience and perspective to share with you all. Things would be different if we had a child; I don't think you could live successfully off of this funding in that case without outside help. 

 

You're saying that you as a couple live off two UT stipends. right? Because that's really a lot different than one person or a couple living off one stipend.

[GuateAmfeminist]

I wouldn't say it's a lot different (you still have take care of the needs of 2 people). It would be like having a roommate since you are sharing the rent (some couples choose to live in 2 bedroom apartments for more space, so they pay more in rent overall than 1 person in a studio). I just wanted to offer a perspective that is different than one that you all are positing: that all UT students live off of loans or their family. Of course, some do, but others don't. Cost of living here is going up but honestly, it's much lower than other places I've lived. I think they should definitely pay us more, but you do have to remember that this is Texas and they hate taxes and the word "public" (not Austin, but Texas legislators).

 

And why would a couple being living off one stipend (as a choice), other than maybe feeling like one person has to care for a child (which doesn't seem viable)?  Without a choice, unemployment obviously but Austin has a lot lower unemployment than most of the country. At the very least, they could get a job that pays as much as the TA or AI stipend.

[Fishbucket]

I think it really depends on what kind of lifestyle you're comfortable with. I sadly am not the best at managing my finances, and I've never had to live on such a tiny income in my life. During my gap years I made about 3x the UT stipend working in advertising (among other jobs). I enjoy experiencing the life of the city I live in (wherever that city may be), going out to movies, buying nice groceries, being able to eat at restaurants sometimes, in other words having a bit of breathing room after paying rent. I would feel incredibly sad and uncomfortable scrimping and scraping by on less than $1000 a month after taxes.

[Magical Realist]

If I may shoot off on a tangent here...

 

What is the etiquette on accepting an offer prior to a visit to a different school? Basically, my problem is this--some of my schools set deadlines to accept/decline a visit prior to all of my schools getting back to me (which is incredibly frustrating, especially because I can only take so much time off work, and working out the logistics to get to where I want to be is tough). So, I accepted a visit to a school that isn't necessarily at the top of my list. Before that visit, though, I have a visit with my number one choice. My visit there is basically to make sure that the department isn't filled with completely distant advisers and disaffected graduate students. As long as that's not the case, I'm ready to pull the proverbial trigger and forge ahead with concrete plans. (Of course, if it is the case, it's good to have a back-up visit scheduled anyhow). 

 

But I'm wondering what that looks like, since I have a visit after. Should I just wait and accept after the last visit? I know there's really nothing to be gained in terms of accepting a little earlier, but I'm dying for a sense of certainty in my immediate future.

.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Magical Realist

[GuateAmfeminist]

is the department you're not so excited about paying for this visit? i.e. is a ticket already purchased?

[Magical Realist]

Yep--the ticket's purchased and reservations are confirmed. And I guess I wouldn't say it's not so exciting (the faculty, location, etc are all fantastic, but outcomes aren't quite as good as at dream school, and the stipend is pretty paltry, too). 

 

Alas.

[GuateAmfeminist]

I think you would be burning bridges not to go then. and if you get nothing else, it can't help to network. Are you really in a rush to decide after your first visit, though? You have this nice opportunity to compare 2 programs (the second one might be better than the first, as you point out).

[brigadierpudding]

Except it's not.

 

When I was still in undergrad, I was terrified by the prospect of landing a job for only $30k; as it's turned out, I've spent my 20s making around the amount UT pays its grad students! And believe it or not, I've been very happy. I think I manage because of this sort of thing:

 

One thing to bear in mind when comparing funding offers is cost of living:  13k might be enough to live comfortably in one area, but you might be scraping by somewhere else.  While Austin isn't New York city, it's not a small Midwestern town, either.

Regarding going where the money is:

 

Of course, funding isn't the only factor (hence "all else being equal").  Those of us expressing concern about it aren't, I suspect, motivated solely by money (we are, after all, graduate students in the humanities:  what is this money of which you speak?!).  For me, I just want to know that I can live reasonably off the funding without worrying about money or the rising cost of living.  In that respect, UT's funding doesn't seem outright bad, but it does give me pause, something I didn't quite expect from a program with such a stellar reputation.

[Magical Realist]

My desire to accept goes against all logic; I think I'm just in need of an emotional security blanket. It's been driving me crazy to have no idea where I'd wind up come August. I'm pretty plan-oriented, and I've been adrift since Spring of 2012, more or less. 

 

So it's illogical, but I want to begin taking concrete action steps just to feel like I'm making progress towards a goal. 

 

I suppose I should probably practice exercising self-restraint:).

[yellow.wallpaper]

Is anyone going to do a campus visit at UW-Madison?

[Imogene]

Man this funding discussion has been kind of depressing

 

I wanted to share this other online tool that I just found that might be helpful if you're comparing a couple of towns to each other (cost of living, plus other comparisons like crime, climate, etc.):

 

http://www.townhunter.com/townhunter/compare-cities-side-by-side.aspx

[antihumanist]

One thing to bear in mind when comparing funding offers is cost of living:  13k might be enough to live comfortably in one area, but you might be scraping by somewhere else.  While Austin isn't New York city, it's not a small Midwestern town, either.

Regarding going where the money is:

 

Of course, funding isn't the only factor (hence "all else being equal").  Those of us expressing concern about it aren't, I suspect, motivated solely by money (we are, after all, graduate students in the humanities:  what is this money of which you speak?!).  For me, I just want to know that I can live reasonably off the funding without worrying about money or the rising cost of living.  In that respect, UT's funding doesn't seem outright bad, but it does give me pause, something I didn't quite expect from a program with such a stellar reputation.

 

This is definitely on the table for me: for instance, UC Irvine's offer made me blink, but then I saw they have (surprisingly cheap) graduate housing.  Now, I'm visiting to make sure that it's actually liveable (and that the numbers online are more or less real), but my assumption was initially a 1k/month rent in Southern California.  However, if everything checks out, the budget suddenly really works well.

 

Also, to this person:

 

 

I think you would be burning bridges not to go then. and if you get nothing else, it can't help to network. Are you really in a rush to decide after your first visit, though? You have this nice opportunity to compare 2 programs (the second one might be better than the first, as you point out).

 

Totally agree with your assessment.  There's no reason not to give every school that offers you a trip out a fair shake if you can manage it.  Gives you a feel for the stuff that isn't as easily qualified on a school's website - like what it's like in the city/town, what the people are like (outside of their awesome work, etc), the kinds of people at the program - stuff that doesn't show up until you do.

[Troppman]

Ok, here's a good one:

 

My (new) program has a course-work reduction option whereby you can request to have some of your MA coursework count towards the PhD requirements if you choose to petition and the petition is approved (which is not uncommon for PhD programs from what i've seen). The same goes for language requirements. I have 30 relevant credit hours in my languages, and I can petition to have those stand in lieu of the proficiency test option (which i'm not opposed to doing again, it would just be a waste of time). This might be a silly question, but as someone who hasn't even begun classes there yet, is it in poor taste to inquire about the coursework reduction and language proficiency stuff? In other words, could doing so be considered arrogant somehow--even though this is what the process/option is for? If there is no reason not to inquire, should I call my POI, e-mail the director, or call the department manager? Should I wait a few weeks or even until fall term comes around? Sorry if these are all silly questions. I hope that in asking them someone else's angst can also be soothed.

Edited March 1, 2013 by StephanieDelacour

[katja454]

This might be a silly question, but as someone who hasn't even begun classes there yet, is it in poor taste to inquire about the coursework reduction and language proficiency stuff? In other words, could doing so be considered arrogant somehow--even though this is what the process/option is for? If there is no reason not to inquire, should I call my POI, e-mail the director, or call the department manager? 

 

I was also inexplicably nervous about this. I had arranged to talk on the phone with the DGS at a school that I'm very interested in, and because he seemed very friendly, I felt comfortable asking him about the coursework waiver/exemption. I was nervous that it would seem like - hey, I haven't even started there yet, and I already want to get out of doing things! - but I asked whether students incoming with an MA usually take advantage of this. He didn't react as if it was an awkward question and said that yes, most of them do, since it's a question of getting through your coursework in a reasonable amount of time and getting through the "time sink" surrounding your preliminary exams. I'm sure it's different for different programs, but I just thought I'd share my good experience with the same question! Hope that helps!

[Troppman]

I was also inexplicably nervous about this. I had arranged to talk on the phone with the DGS at a school that I'm very interested in, and because he seemed very friendly, I felt comfortable asking him about the coursework waiver/exemption. I was nervous that it would seem like - hey, I haven't even started there yet, and I already want to get out of doing things! - but I asked whether students incoming with an MA usually take advantage of this. He didn't react as if it was an awkward question and said that yes, most of them do, since it's a question of getting through your coursework in a reasonable amount of time and getting through the "time sink" surrounding your preliminary exams. I'm sure it's different for different programs, but I just thought I'd share my good experience with the same question! Hope that helps!

This is definitely reassuring, and your explanation certainly reflects my anxieties. With four years of promised great funding, in a program that can be completed in four years, I think that it is in my best interest to get to my exams and writing as soon as possible--especially if I have coursework that perfectly matches the sort eligible for the reduction option...