Ethics_101 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Okay, here's the deal: I was recently admitted into my dream program with 5-years of guaranteed funding. However during the application and interview process I knowingly withheld information about two previous [failed] attempts at doctoral studies. While I have justification for withdrawing from both of these programs, I chose to withhold this information because I knew it would hurt my chances of being considered and/or admitted. At the end of the day, what graduate program would want to admit a student who withdrew from PhD studies not once but twice?!? I know this was a highly unethical decision on my part and for this reason, I feel that I should simply decline their offer of admission to avoid any embarassment in the future. [Note: This is the ONLY program I applied to this year]. However since this is my DREAM program, part of me wants to say and do nothing, and hope the Graduate School doesn't find out. After all, don't admission offices track students through the National Student Clearinghouse and know where I've enrolled in the past before making an offer of admission? Wouldn't they see that I didn't declare univeresity X & Y on my application? Yet another part of me feels like I should send an open letter to my POI, the department's admissions committee, and/or the Graduate School and explain the poor decision I made in the application & interview process. At least they'd have all the information I should have provided from the start, and can make an informed choice on whether to accept me or not. Any thoughts or advice what I should do?
wannabeaphd Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Did you send the department transcripts from these two previous PhD schools? Are they listed on your CV or any other material (GRE score reports, letters of rec, ect)? If not, then you may indeed be in ethical violation and the new department can (and may well) oust you if/when they find out. However, if any part of your application mentions them, but you don't specifically mention the previous schools, I think you'll be fine and I don't think you really need to mention the attempts at this point. rowlf and 123student 1 1
123student Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I stick to ethical perspectives on this one, and say you should either own up about your 2 previous withdrawals to the program that admitted you, telling them everything and seeing what they tell you back, or decline admission altogether. You basically lied to them by presenting yourself as someone you are not 100%; this is true even if you are now an awesome student perfectly suited to their program. Trying to rationalize it or shift the blame onto someone else or onto some system--such as the National Student Clearinghouse or the adcomm's possible failure to check you out any more than they felt they needed to in the spirit of good faith in which many human affairs operate--is just a cop-out to sugar-coat the situation. All this may sound harsh, but what you did is bump out a qualified, honest candidate for whom this program is also a DREAM program and is also the ONLY one he/she applied to this year. For you to accept the offer of admission under the false pretext you presented disgraces the academic integrity that all the rest of us bust our tails for. R Deckard, GRAPEFRUITS, Overtherainbow and 4 others 6 1
dntw8up Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Academics do not tolerate academic dishonesty. When you signed your application you agreed that you answered all questions truthfully. Your lie will inevitably be outed, either by technology, which makes it easier to investigate when suspicions arise, or by gossip among academics in your field at conferences where grad students' names and faces are introduced to the field at large. If you aren't outed until after you receive the degree you can expect the university to rescind the degree, and to inform local press that it has done so, because universities like to pay lip service to preserving their integrity. Nothing pisses academics off more than cheating, and they derive a special satisfaction from flogging the dishonest in their midst. Only you can decide whether you want to invest in building a reputation in your field that can be destroyed at an inopportune time, perhaps not until you risk losing the respect of a spouse and children, the peers with whom you work, and your social community. . coffeeplease and Overtherainbow 1 1
margarets Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 I'm curious to know why you would play with fire like this. If you don't confess, this will hang over you for the rest of your career, which is an extremely stressful way to live. If you do confess, you will probably lose the offer. Your credibility and reputation will be shot, and it's doubtful any professors would want to work with you. Whereas you could have just told the whole truth, warts and all, and possibly still gotten the offer. So, what was your rationale back when you made the choice to mispresent yourself?
thereal19 Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 This is from 2008, but kinda relevant to this situation...: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/education/10yale.html?_r=1
dntw8up Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) I glossed over the five years of funding part of your post. Certainly if you decide to take the risk and attend, expect the minimum financial hit when caught to be repayment of funding, with interest. Edited March 16, 2012 by dntw8up Brisingamen 1
abc123xtc Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Why have you quit two doctoral programs? Unless you have two very valid reasons for not continuing your education with either of these programs, maybe you need to consider the fact that a PhD program is not for you. I don't want to sound mean, but it sounds like you need to seriously consider whether a doctorate program is where you need to be... AuntyOwl 1
intirb Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Maybe I'm just confused.. but omitting information is not the same as lying. Unless they specifically asked for this information and you failed to give it, there isn't a problem, right? As an example, a personal problem left a blank spot on my CV for a good chunk of time. I never offered any explanation for this time in my applications, but if someone asked during interviews about it (some did, some didn't), I gave an honest answer. It depends very much on your own personal circumstances, but how did you handle the probably very long empty spot on your CV? Did you misrepresent what you were doing during that time, or did you simply not give an explanation unless asked? stablecamel, Overtherainbow, pinkrobot and 2 others 3 2
ktel Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 ^ There's no way he hasn't somehow misled the school if he has not told them about this in any way. Typically you are required to provide transcripts from ALL post secondary institutions attended. If he failed to do so, he has failed to give information specifically asked for. VioletAyame, psychgurl and Overtherainbow 2 1
cynder Posted March 16, 2012 Posted March 16, 2012 Did they specifically ask you at any point of the application wether you have attended any PhD. programs previously and did you lie about it there? If so this may be a big problem. Regardless of the answer to that question I think it best to confess. While it is true that graduate institutions ask for transcripts of all the institutions that you have attended past high-school it is generally NOT required to provide all complete transcripts before being accepted. You should contact the graduate office and provide them with the transcripts from your 2 failed attempts at a PhD. course, how you explain the fact that you didnt provide those sooner is up to you. What they will do with that knowledge is up to them. I dont know wether the consequences for what you did will be as severe as people here have mentioned (since you did not commit forgery of any kind), but I am sure that it will haunt you if you dont sort this out before you start your PhD. course.
psychgurl Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 Maybe I'm just confused.. but omitting information is not the same as lying. Unless they specifically asked for this information and you failed to give it, there isn't a problem, right? As an example, a personal problem left a blank spot on my CV for a good chunk of time. I never offered any explanation for this time in my applications, but if someone asked during interviews about it (some did, some didn't), I gave an honest answer. It depends very much on your own personal circumstances, but how did you handle the probably very long empty spot on your CV? Did you misrepresent what you were doing during that time, or did you simply not give an explanation unless asked? Dropping out of 2 PhD programs is NOT the same thing as a lapse in employment. Each of the 10 applications I filled out required me to list EVERY institution I attended (including transcripts from each). You also are required to digitally sign at the end of every application, stating that all of the information provided is COMPLETE and ACCURATE. I would personally decline the offer...someone else could have the spot that you will probably lose once your program finds out your past academic record. emmm, 123student, AuntyOwl and 1 other 4
rowlf Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) I would not simply turn it down, but definitely disclose this to them before starting. They may react strongly the way most people here have and they may see it the way I do which is in the grey area. Either way, it's better to know that reaction now than to risk them finding out and feeling really tricked. Depending on the unknown details of your situation, I think the severity of your situation may vary. I, for one, did not send transcripts that did not directly contribute to an earned degree. Looking back on it, it would have only helped my application, but it didn't even occur to me that I should send them. It seems like you knew you should have sent them at the time and just made a poor decision. What is done is done and I think you should just do whatever you can to set the record straight. When you tell them, make sure you explain the reasons you withdrew from the previous programs (obviously), why this program would be different, and reaffirm your enthusiasm about this program. Be respectful and demonstrate character, and then just hope for the best. Good luck! Edited March 17, 2012 by rowlf emmm and Overtherainbow 1 1
NinjaMermaid Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 I'm sorry, but I see no grey area here. I can't imagine any school having "loopholes" to allow this sort of incident, and even if these did exist, to take advantage of them is highly unethical. My first thought jumps to Marc Hauser and I assure you he started his ethical impropriety off small. You are standing on a very slippery slope. Overtherainbow, R Deckard and emmm 2 1
rowlf Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 I speculate that the poster is in a worse position than he/she would have been if everything was provided up front: that the chances of acceptance in the first place is greater than the chance of there being no consequences to this. Bottom line is that this course of action is not recommended to anyone considering the same actions. To anyone reading this in the future, always be as honest as possible in the application process. If there is a concern from your past, then take the time to explain it in the application. However, this is the position that the poster is in already. I don't think it is helpful to simply liken him/her to every academic fraud. Let's encourage the poster to do the right thing and be strong facing any consequences that may come. Again, good luck coming forward with this. Just think how much better you will feel going forward without this hanging over your head. cynder 1
ANDS! Posted March 17, 2012 Posted March 17, 2012 Wow, no ifs ands or buts about it. The OP misrepresented themselves in the application process. Whereas he/she could have explained themselves in a Statement of Purpose, and how they are now in a position to complete a program, not they have dug themselves into a hole hoping in the next 5-years they aren't discovered. That's no way to live an academic life. R Deckard, Overtherainbow, mallorn and 3 others 3 3
NeuroGal Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I agree with the previous posters. On one hand I can see your motivation for excluding this information, but on the other, it is going to come back and bite you. In my PhD program my world keeps getting smaller and smaller! The same names come up, people know each other, and you start to be known in your field. You want to publish right? What if someone from your old program comes across and/or reviews one of your papers. They mention to someone in your program, "Hey, how is so-and-so working out? They dropped out of the program after one semester when they were here." Is it better to fess up or have your reputation tarnished for the rest of your career? go3187 1
dedicateddan Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 What you did was clearly unethical, though I think declining an offer of acceptance from your dream school would be a waste. There's a good chance that they'd still like you to attend. At the same time, spending several years afraid and saddled with guilt clearly isn't a good option either. I would get in contact with your POI and explain the omission and how sorry you are for it. Your POI will then decide how to proceed with the matter.
TakeruK Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 I don't think it's unethical to omit information that is not specifically asked for. However, to avoid any chance that I get misinterpreted, I want to say that this information (previous schools/programs attended) is almost always directly asked for! So I do think this specific case is unethical, but omission of information in general is not always unethical. This post doesn't really apply to OP's situation, but I wanted to present some balance to the posts here that are, in my opinion, the opposite extreme. That said, even if you signed a digital signature saying that your application information is "COMPLETE" and "ACCURATE". I understood "complete" to mean "included everything asked for in the application", for example I didn't include my CV for the schools that did not request it. "Complete" does not mean it is my responsibility to think of every possible piece of information to attach. For example, in my SOP, I only wrote about my academic plans / goals for the future. I didn't include other goals that could/would impact my academic career, such as my plans to start a family while in a PhD and the fact that I am going to eventually move back to my hometown in about 10 years time, even if I have to leave academia to do it. In all of my applications, I indicated my intents for a career in academia, but during my PhD career, I will be doing things to ensure I am employable outside of academia as well. This probably doesn't apply in OP's case, since there is usually (but not always) a question that asks if you have ever withdrew from a graduate program before. The question about schools attended is almost always worded so that you must include every school you where you were ever enrolled in a degree-granting program, even for just 1 semester. Everyone above has already outlined all the risks of the OP continuing in the program. Don't forget about the non-academic consequences too (financial, family, legal, etc.) To answer OP's question though: In your case, I would consider two options: 1. Write to the graduate school, POI, department, etc. and let them know about your omissions. Explain your reasoning and why you realise now it was a mistake. I would probably start with your POI and department. 2. Give up on this school, forever. You could decline the offer, and apply again to different programs next year. This way, you don't have to tell them your mistake and as long as you don't apply to the same school ever, it's not likely anyone would find out (since it's not likely the school will remember the profiles of every applicant that declined their offer). Even if it is eventually found out, it's unlikely to impact your career since you didn't take advantage of your deceit. Although if you try to run for government office, this kind of information would be very scandalous! Option 1 gives you a chance to still attend your dream program, but it might be really unlikely they will still accept you, since you were dishonest in the first place. Even if they did, you will carry that reputation around forever. What will your references from your PhD program write about you in their LORs? Thus, if I was in this situation, and if I still wanted to go for a PhD program, I would take Option 2. psychgurl, emmm, abc123xtc and 1 other 3 1
joefc Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 whewwwwww well, your only possibilities: 1 - come clean 1b- come clean, but embellish why you withdrew from those places i dont think i would recommend giving up on it completely without saying that. you may as well, at least, just tell em and see what happens. what have you got to lose anyways? unless youre really sneaky and can get away with it, which if you went to a program in zanzibar you could. it could probaby come up. but what are the details of your withdrawals? were they very, very early? i.e. were you there for a week, said f$#% this place and left? then you dont have a transcript to show anways. but ya, seems your only way out is to confess
juilletmercredi Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I also would not decline the position - I would speak to the appropriate person and tell them what happened. I don't think the appropriate person is necessarily your potential PI, though - I think that is the Director of Graduate Studies (or possibly, the dean of the graduate school, but more likely it's the DGS). You may be surprised at what you hear, but it also depends on what they asked you and how big your lie of omission is on the forms. And when we are talking about lies of omission, we are obviously not referring to life and career plans like moving back to one's hometown. Those are irrelevant and not comparable to this situation.
lalameans Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Forget your past and your guilt for a moment and focus on just one question to make your decision: Do YOU feel that you truly deserve to participate in this program, based on your current potential and dedication in regard to this field? Only you can answer that question, and do not lie to yourself; if the answer is yes, I say GO FOR IT- enroll in the program and put the past behind you. Traditional wisdom would say that someone who failed twice at doctoral studies should not enroll in a Ph.D. program ever again, but there are few exceptions to a rule such as this. You said that you have justification for withdrawing those two times, so if you really believe that and you do not think your past represents a deficiency in your ability to succeed, then I sincerely think you should not feel guilty. In that case, I urge you NOT to confess- accept the offer, but give the program 200% of your effort and dedication in return for the circumstances regarding your acceptance. Remember that if you TRULY will be an asset to this program and to this field, your enrollment will be to everyone's benefit, and nothing in your past will be relevant in the long run. In this case, anyone who found out about your past failures would realize that you really DID deserve a third chance. On the other hand, if you think that you have taken a spot away from someone more deserving, and you have any serious doubts about your ability to succeed this (third) time, then you really should decline the offer. I don't care what anyone here says...if you do enroll in this program and achieve stellar results, it is VERY unlikely that your past will ever matter. The likelihood of people finding out will diminish exponentially with each semester that you excel in the program, and so will the likelihood that they will CARE even if they do find out. These forums are full of so-called "academic saints" who love to go around and lambast others using the terms "academic integrity" and "academic honesty", although if you were to thoroughly examine the history of every move that THEY ever made in the academic world, you will only confirm that nobody is a saint. I am NOT condoning dishonesty in any way, but I have to be truthful, and so I must admit that less-than-saintly behavior is nearly omnipresent in academia in one form or another, even among almost every 4.0 student and world-renowned researcher. Anyone who says that "misrepresentations" equally severe as yours are not common among the big-wigs in academia is simply lying. What I'm trying to say is: do not feel guilty just because the academic world pressures you to feel guilty; feel guilty IF you are accepting a position that you do not truly deserve according to your abilities and dedication. One more thing: remember that if you do confess now, not only will you almost definitely lose your chance to participate in this program, but you will probably NEVER be able to enroll in a Ph.D. program in the future. Make sure that you're okay with that before confessing. Furthermore, don't forget that anyone whom you tell may "snitch" on you with publicity that knows no bounds, and your future career plans may be ruined (even beyond the scope of graduate studies). Edited March 28, 2012 by lalameans Raoliteri, lalameans, elyssareid and 2 others 3 2
cynder Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 The OPs only post on this board and this most recent reply almost make this seem as someones assignment for an ethics class or something commcomm, VioletAyame, Brisingamen and 4 others 6 1
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