Applying for Fall 2013

[hiroshiman]

I was sent a scedule of events for this campus visit to Northwestern, and I figured some of you may be interested as to what this interview entails.  The first day is taken up by a class that we can sit it on, and then a lengthier colloquium. The second day we have several campus/library tours, and information meetings with the director of graduate studies. At the end of day 2 seems to be the main event - 6 back to abck 30 minute interviews, with each of the musicology faculty in turn, followed by a reception with all faculty/applicants. The final day is just breakfast and Q&A sessions.

There are also several optional events mixed in - dinner with current students, and a Chicago Symphony Orchestra concert.

[musicmage09]

I was sent a scedule of events for this campus visit to Northwestern, and I figured some of you may be interested as to what this interview entails.  The first day is taken up by a class that we can sit it on, and then a lengthier colloquium. The second day we have several campus/library tours, and information meetings with the director of graduate studies. At the end of day 2 seems to be the main event - 6 back to abck 30 minute interviews, with each of the musicology faculty in turn, followed by a reception with all faculty/applicants. The final day is just breakfast and Q&A sessions. There are also several optional events mixed in - dinner with current students, and a Chicago Symphony Orchestra concert.

Wow! Six 30min. interviews! Best of luck! Let us know how it goes. All in all it seems like a nice trip!

[Karajan]

I was sent a scedule of events for this campus visit to Northwestern, and I figured some of you may be interested as to what this interview entails.  The first day is taken up by a class that we can sit it on, and then a lengthier colloquium. The second day we have several campus/library tours, and information meetings with the director of graduate studies. At the end of day 2 seems to be the main event - 6 back to abck 30 minute interviews, with each of the musicology faculty in turn, followed by a reception with all faculty/applicants. The final day is just breakfast and Q&A sessions.

There are also several optional events mixed in - dinner with current students, and a Chicago Symphony Orchestra concert.

 

Sounds fun! Northwestern is pretty organized: last year, there were few schools I visited where I had to organize my own schedule!  The schools that are more organized about prospective student visits really stand out in the end. 

[mochabear]

As much as it pains me, I must face the reality that I may pull a Detroit Lions and go 0-10 this season. I've done some research, but I want to hear that y'all have to say about back-up schools? Does anyone have any experience with Catholic, LSU, or Kentucky's PhD Musicology program?

[musicmage09]

As much as it pains me, I must face the reality that I may pull a Detroit Lions and go 0-10 this season. I've done some research, but I want to hear that y'all have to say about back-up schools? Does anyone have any experience with Catholic, LSU, or Kentucky's PhD Musicology program?

Really I think its to early for you to assume you've struck out. You still have plenty of programs to hear from. I am not familiar with any of those "back up" programs but I would really take a look at the faculty and make sure there is someone who would work with your interests. Secondly, would you be happy going to any of those schools? Furthermore, the job market for musicologists is so competitive and you should weigh whether those programs will get you to where you want to be (this is no reflection on these programs. I just know nothing about them).If I strike out I would rather wait til next round and try again. But I understand your feeling of wanting to get in somewhere. If it makes you feel better then apply, but I wouldn't assume defeat yet! You can't give up! I'm sending good luck your way!

[CP3]

As much as it pains me, I must face the reality that I may pull a Detroit Lions and go 0-10 this season. I've done some research, but I want to hear that y'all have to say about back-up schools? Does anyone have any experience with Catholic, LSU, or Kentucky's PhD Musicology program?

I pretty much have the same thoughts as Musicmage09. I don't know those programs, but it sounds like they wouldn't make you happy in the long run, nor land you a good job down the road.  (maybe they are good schools??)

 

I'm in the same boat, I had 2 swift rejects a few weeks ago, I have 6 left to hear from, most of which are stretches. I have been beating myself up lately, thinking "I should've applied to less competitive programs." But why would I spend all of that time and MONEY applying to schools that don't interest me.

I don't think I could handle going to a school for 4-5 years that I am not that interested in. I REALLY want to get in this year, so I am contemplating applying to a few more "safety" schools, but I don't think a PhD from a little-known program would do any of us any good down the road.

 

If you look at the faculty profiles at many schools. a lot of them received their degrees from top-notch programs. For instance, my former professors received their degrees from Northwestern, Berkley, and Peabody. Of course, some people become very successful after studying at a safety school.

 

It's a tough decision that some of us have to make, right now I'm leaning towards waiting it out, and if I don't get in anywhere, I will try again next year rather than frantically submit more apps to safety schools.

 

GOOD LUCK!  

[hiroshiman]

Don't give up yet! We still have lot's of time to keep our naive hopes up. A "safety" school isn't necessarily a bad option. CU Boulder is such a potential choice for me. I believe grad school is what you make of it - the more effort you put in, the more you will gain. There are some good faculty fits for me at CU (an important factor in any school, be it top notch or safety) and I love Colorado. I also have work as an orchestral musician here, and teach adjunct at a different, nearby University. The "quality of life" factor would be high for me, something you should consider in your choice.

That said, in speaking with the chair of my department, he urges me to go somewhere more prestigious simply because of the current job market. Just to give an example, at the University where I currently teach, we are hiring 2 tenure track musicology professors and we had just under 200 applicants. The first of 6 finalists is here today, in fact. If you go to a school with less name power, you will have to work harder to distinguish yourself from the pack (we do have one of our finalists coming from CU Boulder, I should say).

Just because I figure everyone would be curious - we had applications from all over the place, including Central and South America. The 6 finalists got there degrees at UNC Chapel Hill, Univ of Illinois (Champagne), Columbia, University of Toronto, CU Boulder, and Duke.

[CP3]

Don't give up yet! We still have lot's of time to keep our naive hopes up. A "safety" school isn't necessarily a bad option. CU Boulder is such a potential choice for me. I believe grad school is what you make of it - the more effort you put in, the more you will gain. There are some good faculty fits for me at CU (an important factor in any school, be it top notch or safety) and I love Colorado. I also have work as an orchestral musician here, and teach adjunct at a different, nearby University. The "quality of life" factor would be high for me, something you should consider in your choice.

That said, in speaking with the chair of my department, he urges me to go somewhere more prestigious simply because of the current job market. Just to give an example, at the University where I currently teach, we are hiring 2 tenure track musicology professors and we had just under 200 applicants. The first of 6 finalists is here today, in fact. If you go to a school with less name power, you will have to work harder to distinguish yourself from the pack (we do have one of our finalists coming from CU Boulder, I should say).

Just because I figure everyone would be curious - we had applications from all over the place, including Central and South America. The 6 finalists got there degrees at UNC Chapel Hill, Univ of Illinois (Champagne), Columbia, University of Toronto, CU Boulder, and Duke.

Yeah, my main professor studied at Berkley. He told me last year to make sure I apply to some "safety" schools. He also told me a degree is a degree. Then again, later on when I showed him which "dream" schools I wanted to apply to, he told me "oh, those schools would be better for your future career."

 

Who knows!? I've had people tell me that a doctorate is all that matters. Others say a doctorate only matters if it comes from a Big Name School. I had a current PhD student tell me on the phone several months ago "Don't even bother applying to "safety" schools, if you don't get into a Big Name school, try again next year. A less-known school won't get you anywhere."

 

I think this subject would be a great thread in another forum. 

[Karajan]

Congrats to the Harvard ethno acceptee and musicology wait-listee! 

Edited February 12, 2013 by Karajan

[musicmage09]

Others say a doctorate only matters if it comes from a Big Name School. I had a current PhD student tell me on the phone several months ago "Don't even bother applying to "safety" schools, if you don't get into a Big Name school, try again next year. A less-known school won't get you anywhere.

 

 

I was told the same thing. Originally, I had a long list that included back up schools. Then I was reminded about the competitiveness of the job market for our field. My school hired a new professor this year, and I was able to observe some of the selecting process. All of those offered interviews came from big name schools with the exception of one who was never even interviewed because the job was offered to someone from a big name school (the school was afraid the professor would take an offer from another university). Not that you can't make it with a degree from a lesser known school (especially if its a big school in your field). Certainly if you win big prizes or have a distinguished record it can be done. I suppose I am inclined to believe that the opportunities/ resources/ environment for success are general more available at very prestigious universities/programs, and certainly level of expertise/ experience/ accomplishment is expected when you graduate from these programs. I was told not all doctorates are equal. I was also told that I should only go into this field if I could think of no other way to live my life because the job market is so competitive, and that receiving a degree from a less prestigious school would only make it harder to stand out when the job hunt begins.

Edited February 12, 2013 by musicmage09

[SunnyComposer]

Oops, sorry CP3 -- I didn't mean to flag you as a bad reputation... I just joined yesterday and thought I was hitting the "reply" button... hope I can fix that...

 

Anyway, I meant to say that I went with the same approach last year, only applying for big-name schools.  It's a risky business, and one that requires a thick-skin, because you have to be willing to keep at it for a few years if they don't take you the first year.  There are so many variables, that it just doesn't come down to your submitted materials, I've heard... that it has a lot to do with timing and where you'd fit in with the crop that year.  Kudos to you for doing that.  I hope it works out better for you than it did me.   (That's why I went for some back-up schools this year!)

[CP3]

I was told the same thing. Originally, I had a long list that included back up schools. Then I was reminded about the competitiveness of the job market for our field. My school hired a new professor this year, and I was able to observe some of the selecting process. All of those offered interviews came from big name schools with the exception of one who was never even interviewed because the job was offered to someone from a big name school (the school was afraid the professor would take an offer from another university). Not that you can't make it with a degree from a lesser known school (especially if its a big school in your field). Certainly if you win big prizes or have a distinguished record it can be done. I suppose I am inclined to believe that the opportunities/ resources/ environment for success are general more available at very prestigious universities/programs, and certainly level of expertise/ experience/ accomplishment is expected when you graduate from these programs. I was told not all doctorates are equal. I was also told that I should only go into this field if I could think of no other way to live my life because the job market is so competitive, and that receiving a degree from a less prestigious school would only make it harder to stand out when the job hunt begins.

Absolutely. I started out with 15-20 schools on my list. Eventually, I narrowed it down to 10-11. Financially, I couldn't afford all of the fees for December deadlines (there were 6-7 schools on my list with the same deadline). So I had to make a tough decision: Apply to the "safety" schools, or apply to the Big Shot schools with the same deadline. I decided it would be more worth my money (and future career) to apply to the big names. One of those so far has been a rejection, but I feel better about giving that school a shot. 

On the other hand, I achieved a lot at a lesser known school while working on my Masters. Basically, ANY school at the doctorate level will give me better opportunities than my masters program did. BUT, in the real world, a Big Name at the doctorate level=a Big Resume boost. It will take a lot of great awards, publications, references, etc to equal the Big Name on the future job resume.

Fortunately, I was able to find a few Big Name schools that seem to be "safety" schools in music. So, anywhere I get in SHOULD lead me to a bright future in academia. Crossing my fingers:)

[SunnyComposer]

I keep weighing those thoughts as well -- my feeling is, that the big names will certainly get you more interviews, but I also know it's possible to build your reputation and career without them.  And, in the end, getting a job is about being the best fit for the school, just like getting into PhD program.  (Then again, I know the harsh realities too, and am still crossing my fingers for the Ivy leagues.)  I guess we gotta believe we'll end up where we're meant to.  

 

Good luck!

[composser]

Ivy or not, seems to me to be less important in composition. Although some very high percentage of all jobs are taken by the graduates of "big" schools, it is because a lot of times skill and resume coincide. Fortunately, I know many cases where they don't... especially if we think about other countries. Take for example a big school like Princeton. Not many people in Europe will be impressed about you as a composer because you studied at Princeton! Your scores, performances, intelligence, connections, with whom you studied, etc. etc. will certainly matter more.

----

Speaking of Ivys:
U of Chicago, and Harvard have already notified the musicology winners (although Harvard just did that today as we can see on the board). If this year they notify both musicology and composition applicants at the same time, the ones who didn't hear anything yet, should start assuming they didn't get in. I find it is easier to just make up your mind and not kill yourself over it.

 

Cornell should start moving soon, based on previous years. They tend to notify on Fridays, look at previous posters in composition on 2010 & 2011. Columbia is totally random it seems... a stressful situation indeed.

Good Luck to all!

 

Edited February 12, 2013 by composser

[sweetcheese]

Do we know for sure, though, that Chicago has sent out everything? I'm assuming they have, but I'm just wondering if anyone has heard anything negative from them.

[CP3]

Ivy or not, seems to me to be less important in composition. Although some very high percentage of all jobs are taken by the graduates of "big" schools, it is because a lot of times skill and resume coincide. Fortunately, I know many cases where they don't... especially if we think about other countries. Take for example a big school like Princeton. Not many people in Europe will be impressed about you as a composer because you studied at Princeton! Your scores, performances, intelligence, connections, with whom you studied, etc. etc. will certainly matter more.

----

Speaking of Ivys:

U of Chicago, and Harvard have already notified the musicology winners (although Harvard just did that today as we can see on the board). If this year they notify both musicology and composition applicants at the same time, the ones who didn't hear anything yet, should start assuming they didn't get in. I find it is easier to just make up your mind and not kill yourself over it.

 

Cornell should start moving soon, based on previous years. They tend to notify on Fridays, look at previous posters in composition on 2010 & 2011. Columbia is totally random it seems... a stressful situation indeed.

Good Luck to all!

 

According to the board, U of Chicago composition applicants were notified early March last year. (however, only rejections were posted) but yes, Musicology students have already been notified (once again, according to the board). Last year most acceptances for musicology were sent in early Feb, one rejection was sent in early March. Perhaps this means all acceptances were already sent, and rejections are coming early March?? Who KNOWS!!?? It would seem completely absurd to send rejections a month after acceptances (I'm pretty sure U of C doesn't do waitlisting)

[composser]

According to the board, U of Chicago composition applicants were notified early March last year. (however, only rejections were posted) but yes, Musicology students have already been notified (once again, according to the board). Last year most acceptances for musicology were sent in early Feb, one rejection was sent in early March. Perhaps this means all acceptances were already sent, and rejections are coming early March?? Who KNOWS!!?? It would seem completely absurd to send rejections a month after acceptances (I'm pretty sure U of C doesn't do waitlisting)

 

I'm afraid if by the end of this week UofC does not email, I will assume rejection. All evidence points that way.

 

This unless a student from UofC comp. department would like to post in this thread and tell us otherwise... 

[Karajan]

According to my quick research, it seems that, at the top US places (I included Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Berkeley, Chicago, Stanford, Eastman, NYU, Columbia, Penn, but I could've included many more), the following schools were well-represented on faculty: 

 

Ethno

NYU (4) 

U of Illinois (3) 

=Columbia (2)

=Michigan 

=UCLA 

=UPenn 

=Chicago (1) 

=U of Alberta 

=Berkeley 

=Northwestern 

=Wesleyan 

=UC Santa Cruz 

=UT Austin

=Duke

=Indiana 

 

Musicology

Berkeley (10)

Harvard (8) 

=Princeton (7) 

=Cornell

=NYU (5) 

=Stanford 

=Yale 

=Columbia 

=Chicago 

=Eastman (2) 

=Cambridge 

=Oxford

=Brandeis 

=CUNY 

=UPenn (1) 

=Amsterdam 

=Michigan 

=University of Birmingham, UK 

=UCSD

=UNC Chapel Hill 

=Duke 

=University of Pittsburgh 

 

Theory

Yale (9) 

=Harvard (4) 

=Eastman 

Chicago (3) 

=Princeton (2) 

=Michigan 

=Columbia (1) 

=Cornell 

=Berkeley 

=CUNY 

=King's College, London 

=Stanford 

=University of Toronto 

=University of Leeds, UK 

 

Composition

=Princeton (3) 

=Cornell

=UCSD

=Columbia (2) 

=Harvard

=Berkeley 

=Eastman 

=Indiana (1) 

=University of Birmingham, UK 

=EHESS 

=Michigan 

=Chicago 

=UPenn 

 

 

For the record, at Cambridge and Oxford, the most well-represented places on faculty are: 

 

Cambridge (8) 

Oxford (4) 

Princeton (2) 

=University College, London 

=Moscow (1) 

=UPenn 

=Chicago 

=Columbia 

=Harvard

=Berkeley 

=University of Edinburgh, UK 

=University of Exeter, UK 

=University of York 

=TU Berlin, Germany 

[hiroshiman]

For my composer friends here, to lighten your day:

http://cereal-music.blogspot.com/2013/02/how-to-win-composing.html?m=1

[musicmage09]

For anyone applying to Harvard musicology: 3 were accepted. Columbia will not make decisions until after Feb. 19th. Most likely we will hear beginning of March.

[hiroshiman]

Was just rejected by Stanford.

[pdpotter]

Hi all! I'm new on here. I found this website yesterday and have read through the post. Good luck to all of those who have applied and congrats to those who have heard good news. I applied to 8 schools for musicology:

Chicago

Harvard

Yale

Duke

Michigan

UNC Chapel Hill

Cornell

Penn

Is it a bad thing if I have heard nothing from these schools? In other words, is it possible that acceptance letters are recieved at different times? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[mochabear]

Was just rejected by Stanford.

 

Same. I know that feels, bro.

[CP3]

For my composer friends here, to lighten your day:

http://cereal-music.blogspot.com/2013/02/how-to-win-composing.html?m=1

The most hilarious, absurd, but true thing I have seen in a LONG TIME! Thanks for that!! LOL!

[Karajan]

Hi all! I'm new on here. I found this website yesterday and have read through the post. Good luck to all of those who have applied and congrats to those who have heard good news. I applied to 8 schools for musicology:

Chicago

Harvard

Yale

Duke

Michigan

UNC Chapel Hill

Cornell

Penn

Is it a bad thing if I have heard nothing from these schools? In other words, is it possible that acceptance letters are recieved at different times? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

Hi and welcome!  Usually, if acceptances have already gone out from a school and you haven't heard, you've probably been wait-listed or rejected, unfortunately  However, if interview invitations have gone out and you haven't heard, there's still a possibility that you'll get an interview invite -- That happened to me with Columbia last year.