SIPA

[Revolution]

The reason is that at schools like Tufts or SAIS, the university as a whole invests a lot in those schools while at SIPA the university pretty much ignores it and does not deliver the quality you would expect at Columbia University. SIPA's program in international affairs is more respectable within the school but just go to SIPA's website and take a look at the employment statistics. When you factor in the fact that the school manipulated the data as best as it could and it still looks that bad, you know something is off. It doesn't mean that SIPA won't take you where you want to go. I have a few friends who went there who now work at the World Bank and all the good stuff. But in comparison to Fletcher, SAIS, WWS, or HKS where the school invests money and tries not to make it second fiddle, you will need to be sure you have good work experience and know how to network and find jobs on your own. Other than that, it is a great experience and you will learn a lot. Unfortunately, the point of professional school is to get a job.

 

 

This is 100% right. It's the reason I did not apply to SIPA even though it was on my list. I talked to several alums as well as people in industries of my interest, and they all said similar things about SIPA and told me to not go there. They said great things about SAIS and HKS however.

 

The PRIMARY point of any professional program is to get the job you want coming out. If you fail to do that, you have wasted your time and money. The classes are of secondary importance.  

[mrpapagorgio]

This is 100% right. It's the reason I did not apply to SIPA even though it was on my list. I talked to several alums as well as people in industries of my interest, and they all said similar things about SIPA and told me to not go there. They said great things about SAIS and HKS however.

 

The PRIMARY point of any professional program is to get the job you want coming out. If you fail to do that, you have wasted your time and money. The classes are of secondary importance.  

 

It might be the primary point for some, but not for all candidates. Many candidates will have their exit opportunities lined up before they join the program - the purpose is professional development or intellectual interest...or other!

[Kadisha]

Since GU uploaded their MSFS results for some but did not send emails for some reason I decided to check my SIPA application.

 

What I saw almost gave me a heart attack.

 

 

 

We look forward to working with you! 

 

 

Submission Status: Not Submitted

 

At the beginning I thought I did not even apply because my application wasn't submitted for some reason. Then I realized it was just them getting ready to upload the decisions. Hopefully we'll hear something tonight. If not then Monday it is. I'd personally like to use the weekend to make a decision. If SIPA gives me no financial aid it's going to be between SFS and ESIA. 

[mrpapagorgio]

Since GU uploaded their MSFS results for some but did not send emails for some reason I decided to check my SIPA application.

 

What I saw almost gave me a heart attack.

 

 

 

 

At the beginning I thought I did not even apply because my application wasn't submitted for some reason. Then I realized it was just them getting ready to upload the decisions. Hopefully we'll hear something tonight. If not then Monday it is. I'd personally like to use the weekend to make a decision. If SIPA gives me no financial aid it's going to be between SFS and ESIA. 

Same message for me too.

[soaps]

Since GU uploaded their MSFS results for some but did not send emails for some reason I decided to check my SIPA application.

 

What I saw almost gave me a heart attack.

 

 

 

 

At the beginning I thought I did not even apply because my application wasn't submitted for some reason. Then I realized it was just them getting ready to upload the decisions. Hopefully we'll hear something tonight. If not then Monday it is. I'd personally like to use the weekend to make a decision. If SIPA gives me no financial aid it's going to be between SFS and ESIA. 

 

They addressed the "not submitted" thing in a blog post. Doesn't have to do with them uploading decisions... it's just a design fluke they can't fix: http://blogs.cuit.columbia.edu/sipa/2012/12/24/rehash-an-oldie-but-goodie-whats-my-status/

[adollarninetynine]

It might be the primary point for some, but not for all candidates. Many candidates will have their exit opportunities lined up before they join the program - the purpose is professional development or intellectual interest...or other!

 

This is true as well. Like I said, if you have a job lined up SIPA will be great as long as you don't mind the likely six figure investment. If you already have a job lined up, I don't see why you would go to a school that gives you financial aid unless you really love SIPA.

[mrpapagorgio]

This is true as well. Like I said, if you have a job lined up SIPA will be great as long as you don't mind the likely six figure investment. If you already have a job lined up, I don't see why you would go to a school that gives you financial aid unless you really love SIPA.

I don't quite understand this - you don't understand why you would go to a school that gives financial aid IF you really love SIPA?

[brooklyn11]

Oh man I just saw this looking at these forums for something else. I graduated SIPA in '09 and you guys seem to be dying for info so here goes.

 

I learned an incredible amount at Columbia but there are definitely downsides to be avoided. No one at SIPA will hold your hand. I saw one of my advisors like twice. There are lots of interesting classes and interesting people and a temptation to treat it like undergrad where you try a little of this and a little of that. No one will stop you, but dont do that. Have an idea what your direction you are going and do it.  The concentrations are all different and some are very flexible. I was going for a quant focus much deeper than traditional policy school stuff.  I took classes at Columbia law and the PhD programs in the statistics, economics, political science, and sustainable development departments. It was great and very hard.

 

Career services are worse than awful. Do not talk to them ever. They will try to make you sign up for "informational interviews" and all this other happy bullshit. Just avoid them they have no idea what they are talking about unless you want to work in management consulting. They actually tried to block my diploma because I worked a job over the summer instead of an internship and something was wrong with my paperwork. That said, if you are relying on ANY grad school career services office to get a job you will be disappointed.

 

I worked my ass off first year and got a sweet deal as a TA the second year. If not for that the money would have been rough, but between that and some savings I got out of there with minimal loans. If you are taking out loans, DO NOT live on the upper west side and try to live the downtown lifestyle on the weekends. I had friends who did this and their loans are absurd. Live in Brooklyn or Harlem or Washington Heights. Go to dive bars instead of the godawful places the MBAs go. Otherwise two years will fly by and all that debt will kill you.

 

Speaking of the MBAs, I was shocked to show up at SIPA and find a ton people who couldnt care less about public policy like the asshole on this thread. They wind up with jobs at funds and banks and stuff so I guess it works for them, but seems like a strange choice. There are lots of cool people at SIPA though. Dont worry.  For what its worth, I had signed up for what looked to be some of the more challenging quant courses in the Columbia MBA program and wound up dropping them because they were mind numbingly easy excercises in MS Excel. So MBA is not some kind of gold standard.

 

Finally, as I said you cant rely on career services or your degree alone to get you a job. Talk to people, cast a wide net with applications in the spring of your second year, develop a path of coursework that demonstrates you have learned some hard skills (if your concentration isnt pre-planned), and you will be fine. My only friends that had real trouble getting jobs were those that took random and interesting but unrelated classes and/or spent lots of time "networking" with the B school kids instead of doing their coursework. Or people who decided it was the UN or World Bank or nothing and declined offers.  And this was in '09 when things were even worse than they are now.

 

I'd say message me but i prob wont respond. Sorry. Good luck with the decisions everyone!

[lacanadiense]

@brooklyn11 - didn't even apply to SIPA, but this was an informative post in general.

[JFactor]

Thanks for that great post brooklyn11.

[alf10087]

This thread has been really useful.

 

Up to this point, I'm only waiting for the response from SIPA before I confirm my enrollment to Goldman, but from what I've read, not even with a full ride (chance 0%) SIPA would be a better experience than Goldman. There seems to be unanimity in opinions that the Goldman experience is great and that the SIPA one is not just as good. It doesn't seem like the Ivy League brand and the New York City factor makes up for all the other lacks the school has.

 

Who do you think? 

Edited March 15, 2013 by alf10087

[adollarninetynine]

I don't quite understand this - you don't understand why you would go to a school that gives financial aid IF you really love SIPA?

 

I was politely insinuating that it is stupid to turn down money to be a ivy league prestige whore.

[mrpapagorgio]

I was politely insinuating that it is stupid to turn down money to be a ivy league prestige whore.

 

When you put it like that it's hard to disagree...

[soaps]

This thread has been really useful.

Up to this point, I'm only waiting for the response from SIPA before I confirm my enrollment to Goldman, but from what I've read, not even with a full ride (chance 0%) SIPA would be a better experience than Goldman. There seems to be unanimity in opinions that the Goldman experience is great and that the SIPA one is not just as good. It doesn't seem like the Ivy League brand and the New York City factor makes up for all the other lacks the school has.

Who do you think?

I wouldn't be applying to SIPA if it weren't in NYC, which is where I've been the last few years and where I want to stay. Being here isn't a trivial consideration for professional/career options. I definitely would not put Goldman above SIPA for that reason alone, no matter what the student experience there is like. Quality wise I also don't think there's anything that puts Goldman over the top either, and I feel like there is always heavy east coast school bias no matter what. If you get funding, though, I can definitely understand going for Goldman over SIPA.

Edited March 15, 2013 by soapwater

[Revolution]

brooklyn11,

 

Thanks for the very informative and honest post on SIPA. I think everyone found it very useful.

 

What you said corroborates what I've heard from alums and students as well. You're really going to have to hustle hard to get a job you want since career services is so awful.

 

You mentioned that you shouldn't rely on career services or degree alone to get a job. While that is true at a general level, the on-campus recruiting at a top b-school such as Columbia is SUPERB. From the moment you step foot on campus they really prepare you to get a great job since their very reputation depends on it. You are inundated with campus visits from top companies throughout all industries, and it really becomes an embarrassment of riches. I guess this is where policy programs fall short; there is virtually no on-campus recruiting or visits by private sector companies, so someone who's interested in that space has to spend 2 years hustling like a chicken with its head cut off, just to land interviews.

[lacanadiense]

I guess this is where policy programs fall short; there is virtually no on-campus recruiting or visits by private sector companies, so someone who's interested in that space has to spend 2 years hustling like a chicken with its head cut off, just to land interviews.

 

Why the hell are you even applying to public policy/IR programs? Did you not look into these degrees remotely before submitting applications? I'm sure people getting degrees in clinical psychology and nursing have a pretty hard times getting interviews at private-sector consulting firms. too.

[Revolution]

Why the hell are you even applying to public policy/IR programs? Did you not look into these degrees remotely before submitting applications? I'm sure people getting degrees in clinical psychology and nursing have a pretty hard times getting interviews at private-sector consulting firms. too.

 

 

Calm down chief. I applied to both mba and policy programs in hopes of doing a joint degree since my interests are at the intersection of the two.

[brooklyn11]

There are recruiters from banks, consulting firms, NGOs and everything in between on SIPA campus all the time. Comparing it with B school just doesn't make a ton of sense. Really depends on what you want to do.

I've worked in Policy research almost 10 years - before, during and after SIPA. I feel like I must have worked w an MBA person at some point but can't think of any. Probably because there are always economists around who tend to view an MBA as an expensive networking opportunity and an overly generalist education. It's called policy school for a reason!

Not trying to be a dick but revolutions advice is not accurate in my experience

[Kadisha]

There are recruiters from banks, consulting firms, NGOs and everything in between on SIPA campus all the time. Comparing it with B school just doesn't make a ton of sense. Really depends on what you want to do.

I've worked in Policy research almost 10 years - before, during and after SIPA. I feel like I must have worked w an MBA person at some point but can't think of any. Probably because there are always economists around who tend to view an MBA as an expensive networking opportunity and an overly generalist education. It's called policy school for a reason!

Not trying to be a dick but revolutions advice is not accurate in my experience

 

You're more than welcome to be a dick as a person who actually attends grad school versus some one who has no idea what they're talking about and are spreading rumors based on ignorance.

[123seekay123]

So the consensus is that SIPA's career services is less helpful than at SAIS or Fletcher? 

[Pinkman]

I think the consensus is that at SIPA, you're a small fish in a big pond. The program is huge and the careers service, I'd imagine is stretched thin. Columbia, i gather, dont put enough emphasis into the program so its hardly surprising. The fact that they still have a reasonably solid reputation speaks to the quality of the faculty and curriculum. But as we all know, thats not the whole package one is looking for.

[av260987]

Stupid SIPA! Reading the word 'decisions' in their blog post title gave me such a start! As if I wasn't scared enough to last the weekend.

[campussartorialist]

Stupid SIPA! Reading the word 'decisions' in their blog post title gave me such a start! As if I wasn't scared enough to last the weekend.

"After all these weeks of waiting for news; some of you will be pleased and others… well there is always next time." In fairness, this is partly true. but what a rude thing for SIPA to say to applicants

[onk]

"After all these weeks of waiting for news; some of you will be pleased and others… well there is always next time." In fairness, this is partly true. but what a rude thing for SIPA to say to applicants

Haha - at first glance I didn't think it was rude, but having re-read it, it isn't quite the thing to say when people are spending sleepless nights waiting for a responce!

[tribesdude]

Haha - at first glance I didn't think it was rude, but having re-read it, it isn't quite the thing to say when people are spending sleepless nights waiting for a responce!

 

Same here, when I first read it I was like "oh, ok", but after seeing the post above and reading it again, I agree it was quite rude. However, at the same time, it was a statement of fact, a lot will get in, but a lot will get rejected (and of course some will get listed, which imo is just a nice way of saying you are rejected since the probability of getting of the wait list is so damn low).