Fall 2014 applicants??

[purpleperson]

Here's some stuff I've heard about the admissions process.  I have a close friend who is a Sociology professor (Person X) at a university in my city (actually, the same university where I did my M.A., although I'm in English and have nothing to do with her field, nor she in mine.)  Anyway, she's a relatively young professor; only 40 now (looks about 34), been a professor since she was 33 or so.  She recently told me about how they choose people.  And another person I know (Person Y), who is in English and once served as a grad student helper in the admissions process, has corroborated that there are similarities.  

 

Person X told me that they take all the applications and group them by GRE scores.  So, something like, all the scores 90th percentile and above get put in a pile, all the scores 80th percentile to 89th percentile get put in a pile, all the scores 70th percentile to 79th percentile get put in a pile.  She kind of intimated to me that 70th percentile was her department's minimum, that below that doesn't necessarily get a chance.  She said they go through all of them, that at the PhD level, just out of respect for the work people put into applying to PhD programs, they look at them all.  She said that people in the 70-79th percentile range do still have a shot, as long as their other stuff looks good and their recommendations are strong.  

 

When I recently emailed Northwestern, they implied that they would look at applications with scores that are below their "typical" candidate (even pretty far below their "typical" candidate), but that they are going to be looking to see if the other stuff can offset the low GRE or not.  So I'm thinking maybe other schools have the same philosophy as what my friend says her department does.  They'll give you a shot, but your other materials have to counter-indicate the low GRE. 

 

Person X also told me that who your letter writers are does matter...a lot.  She says that often they (her department) give greater weight to letter writers they know.  In other words, if, when you are talking to your letter writers and they say things like, "Apply to _____ (such-and-such place).  I know people there" -- that's your letter writers' way of saying that you'll have some extra clout at that place because he/she knows people there who will then say, "Oh, James Martin is recommending this person...we know and respect Martin, so....hmmm...we'll definitely consider this applicant."   It's not a sure-thing, of course, but I have heard from my friend (Person X), plus other people that the department just knowing your letter writer and respecting him/her...matters.   

 

She also says, if you can, get letter writers who are full professors.  Less weight is given to assistant professors.  Although in the end, a strong letter from an assistant professor is better than a lukewarm one from a full professor.  However, if you have a choice between two professors, and you think both will write very strong letters for you, but one's a full professor while the other is an assistant prof, go with the full professor.

 

Person X also told me that they (the department), because they go through this year after year, even get to where they know what different letter writers are like.  She says that some letter writers' recommendations have little weight because "they just always write good letters for everybody."  

 

I think it boils down to that writing sample and SOP, though.  I've heard from some other woman on the Chronicle of Higher Education message board that rec letters in general matter less than people think.  She says that there's a lot of "puffery" in recommendation letters, and that adcomms know it, and that they don't necessarily believe everything they're reading about the candidate anyway.  Grades are inflated, letters of recommendation writers -- because most profs are nice people who want to help others and want to do right by them  -- often write about applicants in a way that is more great than they actually are.  Not saying people aren't awesome, but letter writers may spin applicants more magnificently than is deserved, at least at their current stage.  Whatever the case, I think, in the end, the writing sample matters a lot and so does the SOP.  

 

Given all this, I'd say try to apply to places where your letter writers say they know people (and that also fit your interests and where you want to be in general).  

Edited November 2, 2013 by purpleperson

[purpleperson]

Also, I would agree that the choices can be a little arbitrary.  Admissions committees have the luxury of choosing people based on their own little quirks and preferences.  Of course, they're looking for quality candidates who fit.  But after they have enough quality people who fit well enough, the final choices can be based on their little quirks and preferences.  So if it comes down to a choice between you and another person, and y'all two are about equal with writing sample, SOP, scores, etc, the admissions committee could make their decision based on something as simple as, "I think it'd be neat to have a person from Texas.  We haven't had anyone from that region for a while."  And then you (the not from Texas person) are just...out.  

Edited November 2, 2013 by purpleperson

[Romanista]

She also says, if you can, get letter writers who are full professors.  Less weight is given to assistant professors.  Although in the end, a strong letter from an assistant professor is better than a lukewarm one from a full professor.  However, if you have a choice between two professors, and you think both will write very strong letters for you, but one's a full professor while the other is an assistant prof, go with the full professor.

 

 

This is so frustrating, because the adjunctivization of American academia makes this even more difficult. I took 16 undergraduate courses in English, of which only 4 were taught by tenured professors. Of the 4, 2 were survey and introductory courses, which leaves just 2 advanced courses taught by tenured professors on my transcript. Only 1 of the 4 courses was taught by a Full Professor, who retired and moved out of the country after I graduated so I can't ask him for a LOR even though he's in my field. 

 

If it weren't for this site, I would have no place to rant. 

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Well the whole "needing a letter from a full professor" puts a spin on things. How do you decide between someone that is a full professor that was on your thesis committee, but who you didn't take a class with versus someone who is a lecturer (but at Oxford) who you did take a class with and who has many good things to say. Two of my other letter writers are full professors, so I think I'm going with the Oxford person...

[gatsbysghost]

Well the whole "needing a letter from a full professor" puts a spin on things. How do you decide between someone that is a full professor that was on your thesis committee, but who you didn't take a class with versus someone who is a lecturer (but at Oxford) who you did take a class with and who has many good things to say. Two of my other letter writers are full professors, so I think I'm going with the Oxford person...

 

Two of my recommenders are full professors, and one is a Senior Lecturer. But I had the lecturer for three separate classes, and he is more familiar with my work (and me as a person) than any of the other full professors I could have asked for letters. At the end of the day, isn't it preferable to have a letter-writer who knows you and your work?

[jazzyd]

Well the whole "needing a letter from a full professor" puts a spin on things. How do you decide between someone that is a full professor that was on your thesis committee, but who you didn't take a class with versus someone who is a lecturer (but at Oxford) who you did take a class with and who has many good things to say. Two of my other letter writers are full professors, so I think I'm going with the Oxford person...

 

Obviously in a perfect world all three letter writers would be distinguished full professors who've had you in multiple classes and have read and know your thesis/WS intimately. Now, I'm will to bet for most if not all applicants this is not the case. So everyone has to make some compromises on one or all of those letter writer qualities, bearing in mind that some schools have an inclination for some types of letter writers and that you'll never really know which ones. Which one can speak most fully about your work? That might depend on the class you took with the Oxford lecturer; was it a large class with little writing until the very end? How involved was the other professor on your thesis committee? Did they just read the thesis at the end and sign off on it? Or were they closely involved at every stage of the process and integral in putting the project together? If so, you might want that person to write for you. Because even if they didn't take a class with you, they can still speak to your approach to the research process, your work ethic, etc. that sometimes even professors who have you in class can't write about.

 

Two out of three of my letter writers were still assistant professors at the time of submitting my application (though both of them are now tenured) and I never felt like that inhibited my chances at any school I applied to. However, I'd had all of them for at least one class; one writer I'd had for 3 classes, one writer I'd had for an honors class and mentored my research paper (which later became my WS), and another I'd had for an honors class and other upper level class.

 

So in the end I would still privilege who can write most fully to you as a student over anything, which may be someone you've had a class with or may not be. Another concern with the Oxford lecturer is that even though they're not a full professor, they're also not tenure-track (unless they and English unis just called them 'lecturers'?).

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Which one can speak most fully about your work? That might depend on the class you took with the Oxford lecturer; was it a large class with little writing until the very end? How involved was the other professor on your thesis committee? Did they just read the thesis at the end and sign off on it? Or were they closely involved at every stage of the process and integral in putting the project together? If so, you might want that person to write for you. Because even if they didn't take a class with you, they can still speak to your approach to the research process, your work ethic, etc. that sometimes even professors who have you in class can't write about.

 

So in the end I would still privilege who can write most fully to you as a student over anything, which may be someone you've had a class with or may not be. Another concern with the Oxford lecturer is that even though they're not a full professor, they're also not tenure-track (unless they and English unis just called them 'lecturers'?).

 

Thanks for the advice. To answer your questions: the one who was on my thesis committee was basically a reader. He only saw the final draft. But he did have the most insightful questions during my defense and praised my work a lot. 

 

The "class" with the Oxford person, was a one-on-one tutorial/independent study that we tailored to my interests in order to help me form ideas for my thesis. I had to write a paper every week, read 2 novels plus criticism every week, and meet with her for two hours of discussion every week (in which she tore apart my writing and asked me questions about the reading, etc). It was almost like a mini-defense every week. Very intense. Awesome experience. And she loved my writing and our conversations. 

 

As far as what being a "lecturer" means over there--I have a feeling it's very similar to American standards. She just finished her PhD at Oxford and is now teaching there. So, it's not a great position, but it's still Oxford. Given that I already have two other recommendation writers who were a part of the thesis process, and who I also took two classes each with, I think I decided that maybe a different perspective would be good. 

 

Now the question is whether or not she'll be able to do it, and if so, how do I tell the other recommendation writer that I no longer need his letter? I really don't think he'll mind (actually, I think he'll be relieved), but how do I phrase it?

[abitstartled]

Sorry to change the topic a bit, but I was wondering if anyone would be interested in doing a SoP swap. I'm applying to mostly American Studies programs.

[champagne]

I mapped out my deadlines earlier this morning, and my stress level increased by ~1,068.32%.

 

I suppose seeing the actual dates made me realize that less than a month from now will see my entire academic career judged by several someones I've never seen before.

[repentwalpurgis]

Retaking the GRE this Thursday, and on Friday, I came down with....bronchitis.

 

Hacking my head off.  Since ya can't bring in ANYTHING to the testing room, I am seriously considering wearing a shirt made...of towel material...for my nose.  Good grief.

[ktlynnjoy]

I was miserably sick when I took the lit GRE...the proctor took pity on me and brought me a box of tissues. XD

 

Hope you feel better quickly >_<

[Swagato]

It'll soon be a crucial time for many of you. Good luck!

[repentwalpurgis]

I was miserably sick when I took the lit GRE...the proctor took pity on me and brought me a box of tissues. XD

 

Hope you feel better quickly >_<

That's good!  Seriously hoping for the same sympathy from the proctor.  Otherwise, this is going to be a nasty experience.  Sucks, though - how much better this test would go with my beloved green tea.....

 

It'll soon be a crucial time for many of you. Good luck!

Thank you!!!  Feeling it already....probably why I just got sick!

[smellybug]

Yes, best of luck, everyone. You will make it out alive, even though it might not feel like it now.

Edited November 5, 2013 by smellybug

[BattyBoy]

Gave the GRE last week -

 

Had a cold, they made me empty my pockets &

trash all my tissues but they do provide you with tissues,

so filled up me pockets

 

All the very best & do well

 

Yes, you'll be brain dead after about thirty nanoseconds. 

[Katia_chan]

I mapped out my deadlines earlier this morning, and my stress level increased by ~1,068.32%.

 

I suppose seeing the actual dates made me realize that less than a month from now will see my entire academic career judged by several someones I've never seen before.

 

It's a horrifying realization, isn't it?  I keep having mini panic attacks, and where the hell did October go?  I was going to have everything so neatly finished and packaged by the end of it.  But suddenly it's November and nothing's ready and nothing's done and oh my god.

 

Ahem.  Anyway.  Good luck to everyone else suffering.

[repentwalpurgis]

It's a horrifying realization, isn't it?  I keep having mini panic attacks, and where the hell did October go?  I was going to have everything so neatly finished and packaged by the end of it.  But suddenly it's November and nothing's ready and nothing's done and oh my god.

 

Ahem.  Anyway.  Good luck to everyone else suffering.

Good luck Katia!  I edited this whole post after whining and moaning about the GRE and who wantsa hear about THAT anymore................I need a confidence booster, but whatever.  It's crunch time! (anybody else feeling positively insane???)

 

GOOD LUCK TO EVERYBODY!!!

Edited November 6, 2013 by repentwalpurgis

[Datatape]

Yes, good luck, everybody.  I was in your position both last year and the year before, facing down a godforsaken number of applications and wondering how it all was possibly going to get done.  I'm now attending a dream program that I love - you are all brilliant and I know you will do your best.  Just breathe and remember ev-er-ee thang's gonna be all right.  Rockabye.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPjTAFn-l0

[antecedent]

Hey guys!

 

I took my GRE in 2011 and I remember posting here about being unsure about my scores. I did a resit last week (because I'm switching disciplines, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered) and I raised my score in every section - even math! Not by a lot (my math score incresed from 145 -> 150) but still, if I can do it (me, the one who hasn't taken math since I was 17 and hated every second of quant GRE studying) you can at least squeak out a score you're comfortable with. 

 

Good luck to everyone! Make sure to take a break and relax afterwards!

[purpleperson]

I'm working on my Northwestern University "Cluster Statement."

 

Damn you, Northwestern, for wanting people to write Cluster Statements.

 

p.s. later on in February or March, when I get rejected by Northwestern, I'm going to look back on this day in November when I, ultimately in vain, spent hours on a god forsaken cluster statement.

 

Good luck, all.  

[ComeBackZinc]

What in the world is a cluster statement?

[aGiRlCalLeDApPlE]

I'm working on my Northwestern University "Cluster Statement."

 

Damn you, Northwestern, for wanting people to write Cluster Statements.

 

p.s. later on in February or March, when I get rejected by Northwestern, I'm going to look back on this day in November when I, ultimately in vain, spent hours on a god forsaken cluster statement.

 

Good luck, all.  

Are you applying to their comp. lit. program? Cuz I'll soon want to write a cluster statement? Which cluster are you aiming at? Mine is MENA. I'm afraid I'll have to join you later in Feb. or March, who knows?

[purpleperson]

What in the world is a cluster statement?

 

Oh, it's basically a statement which details why you fit in with their interdisciplinary approach.  Basically, aside from your "home" department, you have the option to be affiliated with another cluster/field of study that somehow informs the work and research you do in your home department.  There is the African Studies cluster, Gender and Sexuality Studies cluster, Critical Theory cluster, Classics cluster....and about ten or eleven others.  Ultimately, it's pretty much like getting a certificate in something else.  A little less work is required for the cluster, but many people go all out for the certificate as well.  In either case, you're getting a degree of expertise in a second area.

 

On their application, it says that uploading a cluster statement is optional.  But it would seem that fitting in with a cluster of theirs means to fit in with them in general, so... 

[purpleperson]

Are you applying to their comp. lit. program? Cuz I'll soon want to write a cluster statement? Which cluster are you aiming at? Mine is MENA. I'm afraid I'll have to join you later in Feb. or March, who knows?

 

No, to the comp. lit question.  

 

I'm aiming at the Gender & Sexuality Studies cluster.  There are others that interest me, but I think I'm strongest as an applicant to that one.  

 

Anyway, I started the statement at 1:15 p.m. and I finished about fifteen minutes ago (4:15 my time), so it took me three hours to write the damn thing.   I didn't treat it as seriously as I would an SOP, but close.  I mean, it's of similar importance, I imagine.  I'm about to start their diversity statement.  Northwestern requires so much work.  It's a good thing for them that they're in Chicago (want to be there) and that one of my professors told me I'd be a fool not to apply there, given my interests.  Otherwise, I'd be way too lazy to do all this.  Looking forward to my other applications which are mostly just about fit paragraphs for SOPs!  

 

p.s.  Northwestern even costs more to apply than most other schools.  $95 to most other schools' $50.  

 

Northwestern thinks it is soooo hot or something.  lol.  

 

I forgive Northwestern, though.  I forgive them, especially if they let me in.  

Edited November 6, 2013 by purpleperson

[andromache]

Question: when applying for PhD programs at universities that also offer an MA, is it always appropriate to add in your statement of purpose that you'd like to be considered for the MA if they don't want you for the PhD? Or is this something that you should only do if the program's website specifically instructs you to?