Fall 2014 applicants??

[champagne]

ETS just sent me an email to remind me that I'm taking the GRE on Saturday 

If it's the General test, do not sweat it. The verbal section (the only one that matters much for English graduate programs) is kind of a joke as well as the AW section. Just stay calm and maintain good time, and you should be fine.

Edited September 12, 2013 by champagne

[toasterazzi]

Yeah I'm not super worried about it. It's just my overall hatred of standardized tests that makes me annoyed lol.

[repentwalpurgis]

I don't get it, but I didn't do great on the GRE reading comp section at ALL.  A percentile a bit lower than 75%.  I received a 5 on AW.  I'm working my way through the Manhattan prep books now, but like....I feel really late in the game to be retaking and I'm still getting at least one question wrong on each section I practice.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong anymore and I have little to no confidence when it comes to standardized tests.  Like everyone else, I'm also working on my writing sample, SOP, I teach 30 hours a week, and I still need to sit down with my letter writers...  *cries*

[repentwalpurgis]

Ugh, I just wanted to add this...but when I went in to do the GRE, AW was the section I studied the least...which is to say, barely.  This isn't about the GRE, but about confidence.  I simply didn't care how I wrote...but it came out just fine.  Do I need to apply the same attitude to the rest of the test?  To everything, my apps in general?

[champagne]

Ugh, I just wanted to add this...but when I went in to do the GRE, AW was the section I studied the least...which is to say, barely.  This isn't about the GRE, but about confidence.  I simply didn't care how I wrote...but it came out just fine.  Do I need to apply the same attitude to the rest of the test?  To everything, my apps in general?

Obviously, this can have adverse side-effects, but I've found throughout my entire life that having a general "not-give-a-fuck" attitude about standardized tests has served me pretty well. I would give at least 3.2 more fucks about the rest of my application, but standardized tests feast on people that psych themselves out while taking them. Worrying about the score you're going to make isn't going to improve the score you're going to make. Trust in your ability to think with agility and speed. Trust in the preparation you've done beforehand.

 

Que sera sera and all that.

[repentwalpurgis]

Obviously, this can have adverse side-effects, but I've found throughout my entire life that having a general "not-give-a-fuck" attitude about standardized tests has served me pretty well. I would give at least 3.2 more fucks about the rest of my application, but standardized tests feast on people that psych themselves out while taking them. Worrying about the score you're going to make isn't going to improve the score you're going to make. Trust in your ability to think with agility and speed. Trust in the preparation you've done beforehand.

 

Que sera sera and all that.

 

This.  Thank you.  Made me feel a lot better. 

 

I guess lately I have been reevaluating the way I've always regarded school - since grad school in itself seems to take an ounce or more of "Okay, you need to just calm down and let this thing BE."  For some reason I have small confidence in my abilities even though my numbers in undergrad came out on top.  In some extent this actually pushes me to work my ass off, but in other ways, it's explicitly detrimental to my progress. 

 

Anybody else feel this way?

 

Gonna spend the rest of the day working hard on my writing sample (which is actually, in some regard, dare I say FUN because I'm showcasing my research.  That's the number 1 reason why I'm doing this crazy process, right?) instead of worrying about redoing this scam of a test.

[Postmoddities]

Thanks for the info! And I love your use of Tina Fey here ; ) ...no funding is definitely a deal breaker. 

I might give them another chance. I went to UW for undergrad and have known many people in the graduate programs there, as well as having faculty mentors at my MA school who received a PhD from them and people from my MA program who went there for PhD. I was actually advised to apply there myself but I would prefer to go somewhere else. About the funding- sure you might not TA the first year but there are numerous other work opportunites at the school during the first year, as well as fellowships. I have lived in Seattle for about 7 or 8 years and it is an amazing city to live in (although it is really expensive but everywhere is nowadays right ). So yeah I might revisit their website or something, you never know. Oh btw for my MA I went to a different school in WA and was fully funded, so there are other schools in the Pacific NW area that might be a good choice too for people who are thinking about moving to this part of the country. (Although as we know UW is one of the best so yeah there is that too...but there is also U of O and there is a chance there for funding in the first year I think).

[aGiRlCalLeDApPlE]

Yeah I'm not super worried about it. It's just my overall hatred of standardized tests that makes me annoyed lol.

That makes two of us

[practical cat]

ETS just sent me an email to remind me that I'm taking the GRE on Saturday 

I hope it went well!

[toasterazzi]

I hope it went well!

 

I think it went fairly well. I felt like the verbal section was easier overall than I expecting, and I did better on it than I did on the one practice test I took. The math was about what I expected *shrugs* lol.

[guinevere29]

You sound like you could be me. Except you're doing better since you're actually already on your way to a degree. Hope it's going well!

 

"Medieval" breaks down so much I generally talk to other medievalists about their specific interests, but in a sea of English majors it generally stands for pre-1500 literature. Every time I explain what I do to others -- that is, that I study pre-1500 British literature -- I have to add the caveat that about 75% of what I study isn't actually written in English. I get strange looks for that one, followed inevitably by, "Then how is it English?"

 

It always suprises me that they don't attempt to narrow down the medieval field a little more, if only for the purposes of describing what you study within the larger scope of medieval literature. I probably know more about some random periods like the Victorian era than I do about the 14th and 15th centuries. My one piece of advice to you on applicaitons is to make sure you do your research on specific faculty members interests within medieval. For example, I expressed a strong interest in ancient Germanic texts and philology and not coincidentally the school I am currently attending has some star facutly members in that specific area. If I was looking to concentrate on Chaucer, I might not have been accepted even with the same crudentials.

 

I don't get it, but I didn't do great on the GRE reading comp section at ALL.  A percentile a bit lower than 75%.  I received a 5 on AW.  I'm working my way through the Manhattan prep books now, but like....I feel really late in the game to be retaking and I'm still getting at least one question wrong on each section I practice.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong anymore and I have little to no confidence when it comes to standardized tests.  Like everyone else, I'm also working on my writing sample, SOP, I teach 30 hours a week, and I still need to sit down with my letter writers...  *cries*

 

I'll echo Champagne's thoughts on this; I would retake it if you can, but if not don't get too distraught.  I also was unable to improve my score on the reading comp question no matter how hard I tried. I got to the point where I would get all of the vocab questions right and still consistently miss two or more reading comp questions. The thing to remember is that the type of thinking those contrived reading comp questions test is the opposite of what English PhD programs are looking for.  If you can prove that you can think outside the box and support your claims in your writing sample and personal statement, that will be more of an asset to you than a top GRE score.

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

 The thing to remember is that the type of thinking those contrived reading comp questions test is the opposite of what English PhD programs are looking for.  If you can prove that you can think outside the box and support your claims in your writing sample and personal statement, that will be more of an asset to you than a top GRE score.

 

I wish this were true, but I feel like that's not the impression that I'm getting from university websites. I haven't seen many places explicitly list scores that they want from the writing section, but I have seen tons that have minimum scores for the verbal section (and sometimes combined scores). And, it seems the scores that they want are in the 90th percentile. For some of you that might not be an issue, but for me, it's nearly impossible for me to get a score that high and I think that it will matter in their decisions for letting me in or not. 

 

I'm surprised that some people (and guinevere29 I'm not necessarily pointing at you here) are making it seem like your scores are not that big of a deal. Or others are saying not to stress about it--I get that stress isn't going to make things better, but am I the only one who thinks that the GRE is an important factor?

 

For example, at Columbia they say that they want scores in the 90th percentile. They have 600 applicants a year; you can't tell me that they're not weeding people out by numbers alone. There's no way they read all those applications to see if someone else has something spectacular to override the importance of scores. 

 

I guess I'm just cynical. 

[repentwalpurgis]

It can be easier than believing that all the hard work and effort you put into college and your applications might be overridden by those stupid numbers...  
 

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Right, I get that everyone is trying to be supportive, and I'm not trying to counteract that. I guess what I am hoping for when people post about how hard the GRE is, that someone would give some tips on how to do better or something instead of just saying that the GRE doesn't matter. I just feel like if I take the attitude that it doesn't matter, then I'm not going to do as well on the test. But, if I study my ass off and keep trying, then maybe the score will change a bit. 

 

It definitely depends on where you're applying as well. Some places really do care less than others--they even explicitly state it on their websites. For example, one place I looked at (I can't remember which one, sorry), said that they intentionally will not list the average GRE scores of people who are accepted because they don't think it should matter. That's compared to Duke, which says that if you have a combined score of below 1200 (old test numbers) then that is "unusually low" and you would have to explain yourself. What explanation would even be sufficient? "I'm a bad test taker." "I was sick that day." "This test is a bad determiner of my skills and you shouldn't judge me by it." Blah.

[id quid]

It always suprises me that they don't attempt to narrow down the medieval field a little more, if only for the purposes of describing what you study within the larger scope of medieval literature. I probably know more about some random periods like the Victorian era than I do about the 14th and 15th centuries. My one piece of advice to you on applicaitons is to make sure you do your research on specific faculty members interests within medieval. For example, I expressed a strong interest in ancient Germanic texts and philology and not coincidentally the school I am currently attending has some star facutly members in that specific area. If I was looking to concentrate on Chaucer, I might not have been accepted even with the same crudentials.

 

I've been choosy on that, definitely. I happen to live close to Stanford, and I love Stanford, but I can't apply there because what little medieval faculty they have is late medieval and completely out of the realm of my specialties, which trend toward Anglo-Saxon/post-Conquest philology and paleography. On the other hand, my alma mater has a fantastic faculty for my specialty, which is a little sad since it is my alma mater and there are arguments about whether diversity in academic training is important enough to avoid staying at the same school even if the faculty is the best. 

 

I've been following the route of checking the sources from my thesis and following the faculty back to their schools to give me a sense of where to start. It, unsurprisingly, leads me to the same few places. Even if the wider understanding of medieval doesn't make room for deeper specialty, departments have identifiable trends. Hallelujah for small mercies!

 

Now to find the magical department that not only has my specialty, but has support for the other topics in English and non-English fields where I have an interest but not a strong academic purpose!

[jazzyd]

The thing is, worrying about the GRE is probably the least productive thing you do if you have a score that you feel reflects your best possible performance (on this specific test). 

 

If schools cared as much about GRE scores as they did about the WS and SOP then they would have hard limits right on the admissions page - something to the tune of "Unless your score is in the XX percentile, don't even bother". And some schools do... but I'd be willing to bet the majority of Top 50 programs do not. For the schools that do, it's up to you to weigh the cost of the application with the strength and fit of the program.

 

I just know that I spent so much time agonizing and stressing over my scores, only to speak with acquaintances who had gotten into prestigious Top 5 programs with lower scores. There's a reason why it's more difficult to find hard data on accepted grad student profiles for students in the humanities than for say law school or med school. You as an applicant are so much more than a test score and there are great programs out there that realize this.

[omensetter]

Right, I get that everyone is trying to be supportive, and I'm not trying to counteract that. I guess what I am hoping for when people post about how hard the GRE is, that someone would give some tips on how to do better or something instead of just saying that the GRE doesn't matter. I just feel like if I take the attitude that it doesn't matter, then I'm not going to do as well on the test. But, if I study my ass off and keep trying, then maybe the score will change a bit. 

 

It definitely depends on where you're applying as well. Some places really do care less than others--they even explicitly state it on their websites. For example, one place I looked at (I can't remember which one, sorry), said that they intentionally will not list the average GRE scores of people who are accepted because they don't think it should matter. That's compared to Duke, which says that if you have a combined score of below 1200 (old test numbers) then that is "unusually low" and you would have to explain yourself. What explanation would even be sufficient? "I'm a bad test taker." "I was sick that day." "This test is a bad determiner of my skills and you shouldn't judge me by it." Blah.

 

 

Hey Bunny. I scored a 170 on the verbal and did a reasonable amount of study to get there. I did maybe an hour a day of study (for all the sections) in the month leading up to the test, though there were many days where I didn't do any at all. This was over the summer, though, so I'm not sure I'd dedicate as much time to it if I were taking it closer to app season.

 

While I know I'm speaking from a position of privilege here, I totally agree with everything everyone else has said re the GRE's importance. I know a few people who got into top programs (like Top Ten) without great scores; there's plenty of anecdotal evidence on these boards that it happens all the time. However, I'm happy to talk to you about how I studied over PM if you want (though I'm no expert!). I have no idea where my 'starting point' was, as I didn't take a practice test until I'd started studying, but when I first looked at sample questions on the GRE website I got basically all of them wrong. It was super frustrating, and demoralising, but it definitely motivated me. I don't know if it's relevant, but I'm an international; we don't really have standardised testing in my country so the GRE was my first experience of it. I probably wouldn't have put as much effort into it if the whole enterprise hadn't been so completely foreign to my experiences in education up until that point.

 

Anyway, all this is really to say: the GRE is stupid and hard and grad programs probably don't care about it all that much if you're outstanding in all other areas, but as someone who happened to do well on (part of) it I am happy to share my experience with you!

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

I think everyone is putting out some good perspectives on this issue. It matters more to some places than to others, and we all don't really know how much it matters in the end. I just don't want to act like it doesn't matter at all, though I really wish it didn't...though, if I'm wishing for things, I wish it didn't exist. ; )

 

Oh, and omensetter, I'll be PMing you shortly! 

[guinevere29]

I wish this were true, but I feel like that's not the impression that I'm getting from university websites. I haven't seen many places explicitly list scores that they want from the writing section, but I have seen tons that have minimum scores for the verbal section (and sometimes combined scores). And, it seems the scores that they want are in the 90th percentile. For some of you that might not be an issue, but for me, it's nearly impossible for me to get a score that high and I think that it will matter in their decisions for letting me in or not. 

 

I'm surprised that some people (and guinevere29 I'm not necessarily pointing at you here) are making it seem like your scores are not that big of a deal. Or others are saying not to stress about it--I get that stress isn't going to make things better, but am I the only one who thinks that the GRE is an important factor?

 

For example, at Columbia they say that they want scores in the 90th percentile. They have 600 applicants a year; you can't tell me that they're not weeding people out by numbers alone. There's no way they read all those applications to see if someone else has something spectacular to override the importance of scores. 

 

I guess I'm just cynical.

 

You are right that a lot of schools do weed people out. If you scored 60th percentile or lower on the Verbal GRE, I would be concerned about getting cut. However, I see a lot of posts from people worrying frantically about their 75th percentile scores, or even their 80th percentile scores, and that's not worth your time or effort no matter what the websites say. Now, lower-end GRE scores combined with other sub par elements of your application lowers your chance of getting in. However, if you've studied and done the best you can do on the GRE, I would not go dropping a grand on a GRE prep course to improve your scores or studying an hour a day at the expense of revising your writing sample or improving your personal statements. Or using that money to apply to more schools!

 

I have more anecdotal evidence than statistical (just talking to current graduate students and department staff), but I have always been told straight up that the GRE is the least important element of the application. I think a lot of people on this forum make the assumption that if you are seriously considering applying to PhD programs, you have looked at your GPA and GRE scores and know that they are at least reasonable for getting into these programs, so I think that's where a lot of this advice is coming from. Someone who has a 75th percentile score with a perfect fit in terms of academic interests and a stellar writing sample will certainly get in over someone with a 170 GRE score and a poor fit. AdComs do understand that it is possible to perform poorly on a standardized test and still be a brilliant writer. That's as much as I've been trying to get across.

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

You are right that a lot of schools do weed people out. If you scored 60th percentile or lower on the Verbal GRE, I would be concerned about getting cut. However, I see a lot of posts from people worrying frantically about their 75th percentile scores, or even their 80th percentile scores, and that's not worth your time or effort no matter what the websites say. Now, lower-end GRE scores combined with other sub par elements of your application lowers your chance of getting in. However, if you've studied and done the best you can do on the GRE, I would not go dropping a grand on a GRE prep course to improve your scores or studying an hour a day at the expense of revising your writing sample or improving your personal statements. Or using that money to apply to more schools!

 

I have more anecdotal evidence than statistical (just talking to current graduate students and department staff), but I have always been told straight up that the GRE is the least important element of the application. I think a lot of people on this forum make the assumption that if you are seriously considering applying to PhD programs, you have looked at your GPA and GRE scores and know that they are at least reasonable for getting into these programs, so I think that's where a lot of this advice is coming from. Someone who has a 75th percentile score with a perfect fit in terms of academic interests and a stellar writing sample will certainly get in over someone with a 170 GRE score and a poor fit. AdComs do understand that it is possible to perform poorly on a standardized test and still be a brilliant writer. That's as much as I've been trying to get across.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I definitely agree with what you've said. Though I will say for some of the top 20 schools it might matter more. I don't have evidence of that, but it does seem like their websites indicate that they want specific scores (such as in the 90th or 95th percentile). So, for the places that do list "average" scores or "minimum" scores, I'm going to go ahead and believe that they want scores in that range. On average, those scores seem to be much higher than the ones I already have, which is causing me to freak out. I'm just hoping that even at these places that want certain scores, it's still the least important factor in the application process. 

[peterangelo]

Just to jump in on the GRE debate...

 

I feel the best way to look at it is like this: we know that the GRE scores are factor, but it's not easy to determine how much, and of course with each school differing on their views our job isn't any easier. Sadly, there is no rule of thumb, no black and white way to know what to do about our scores. It comes down to a judgment call. You know that even with low-ish scores you can get into programs, and possibly high-tier programs, and since there's no way of knowing whether or not you'd get weeded out, the only way is to just apply. 

 

I feel like if you have a good CV... as in, conference participation, publications, awards, etc., and a good WS/SoP then you should apply anyway and forget about your scores. 

[toasterazzi]

Just got my official GRE scores last night. I already felt pretty solid about the verbal score, and it turns out I scored a 5 on the writing. This pleases me greatly .

 

We won't talk about the math score...lol...

[BunnyWantsaPhD]

Just to jump in on the GRE debate...

 

I feel the best way to look at it is like this: we know that the GRE scores are factor, but it's not easy to determine how much, and of course with each school differing on their views our job isn't any easier. Sadly, there is no rule of thumb, no black and white way to know what to do about our scores. It comes down to a judgment call. You know that even with low-ish scores you can get into programs, and possibly high-tier programs, and since there's no way of knowing whether or not you'd get weeded out, the only way is to just apply. 

 

I feel like if you have a good CV... as in, conference participation, publications, awards, etc., and a good WS/SoP then you should apply anyway and forget about your scores. 

 

Right. There really is no way to know how they think about the scores. Some places will tell you though---for example, I called Columbia and they straight up said that you should have scores in the 90 (or 95th, I forgot, ha) percentile. So, I'm not sure if I should just not apply if I don't get those scores, but I'll probably apply anyway...

 

Also, I think it's just hard to know what makes a "good" SOP--I thought mine was good last year, and now when I look back, I realize that it was not (hence the re-applying). Same sort of goes for the CV--most people aren't going to have publications and awards, so does that mean that you don't have a good enough CV? 

 

Le sigh. 

Edited September 25, 2013 by BunnyWantsaPhD

[aGiRlCalLeDApPlE]

Just got my official GRE scores last night. I already felt pretty solid about the verbal score, and it turns out I scored a 5 on the writing. This pleases me greatly .

 

We won't talk about the math score...lol...

Congrats! I'm planning on taking it early Nov. Wish me luck. Can I ask a question though; how many words did you attempt to memorize before the test and were most of them on the test? Thanks

[toasterazzi]

Congrats! I'm planning on taking it early Nov. Wish me luck. Can I ask a question though; how many words did you attempt to memorize before the test and were most of them on the test? Thanks

 

Thanks! And I'll definitely be sending you good vibes.

 

I'm really bad at standardized test prep. I was the same way when I took the SAT back in the day. I gathered a bunch of materials, but in the end, I didn't spend a lot of time with many of them. I did read through some of the vocab lists, particularly the root/prefix/suffix ones, in the days leading up to my test. And I downloaded a couple GRE apps on my phone to practice. I didn't memorize a set amount though. I'd say that one of the most enjoyable/beneficial resources that to me personally was the Princeton Review Vocab Minute Podcast. It's a series of 100 or so very short songs about different vocabulary words. They were pretty catchy tunes, and they definitely helped me with remembering some of the words.

 

As for the words on the test, I don't know if this was just my experience, but the words that were actually on the test seemed to be much easier and much more recognizable overall than most of the words that I've seen on the typical GRE word lists. There were only maybe a handful, if that many, that I was totally unfamiliar with.