Applying for Fall 2014

[music]

FWIW, I visited a number of schools last month and every single one told me they do take GRE into consideration for the exact reason CP3 said - they get so many applicants they are just looking for any reason to cut people. The other common reason for their use was when it came down to the final 10 or so candidates and the AdCom are finding it hard to pick. A notably high or low GRE could stick out at that point. Makes sense. The other warning I got was that if GRE scores are out of line with the quality of the rest of the application, red flags will go up. And since you're obviously going to need a great application to get accepted, that does imply that you're going to need a good GRE in order to avoid questions being asked about the legitimacy of your app. But every school without exception said that their priorities are writing samples, LoR and SoP, roughly in that order, and the rest come a long way behind.

Got mine on August 22. Feeling ok about verbal, and mostly just angry every time I try to study maths.

[Kand]

I would agree... the GRE seems to be a last resort if there are too many strong applicants. More specifically, I would say that if you at least scored decently on the Verbal and AW, you shouldn't get too worried. I personally did kind of average (160 V, 143 Q, and 4.0 W).

I'd like to think that your publications and conference presentations on the CV are a hell of a lot more important than how well you prepped for a standardized test that has little bearing on your ability to do graduate music research.

[CP3]

FWIW, I visited a number of schools last month and every single one told me they do take GRE into consideration for the exact reason CP3 said - they get so many applicants they are just looking for any reason to cut people. The other common reason for their use was when it came down to the final 10 or so candidates and the AdCom are finding it hard to pick. A notably high or low GRE could stick out at that point. Makes sense. The other warning I got was that if GRE scores are out of line with the quality of the rest of the application, red flags will go up. And since you're obviously going to need a great application to get accepted, that does imply that you're going to need a good GRE in order to avoid questions being asked about the legitimacy of your app. But every school without exception said that their priorities are writing samples, LoR and SoP, roughly in that order, and the rest come a long way behind.

Got mine on August 22. Feeling ok about verbal, and mostly just angry every time I try to study maths.

This is great information, thanks!! The field of music is subjective. One professor may love someone's application, while another doesn't. Portfolio, writing samples, LORs, SOPs, these are all subjective. Even your GPA is subjective. A low GPA at a high level institution is better than an average GPA at a less prestigious school.

 

The GRE is the only non-subjective element of the application. People will tell you that the GRE is used to evaluate your capability to perform in Grad school. WRONG!! Does a geometry formula have anything to do with writing a 200 page dissertation in grad school? Maybe if you are an engineer, but keep in mind, the math on the GRE is not college level math. Doubtful that is used by any math or engineering major at the grad school level.

 

My whole point is that the GRE is used on an imaginary scale: Good score, the scale tips one way, bad score, the other way. Its true that the GRE is low on the list for the adcomm, but don't be fooled by people that tell you the GRE doesn't matter. They WILL look at the score, and with 300 applications piled up on the table, a low score will probably make it's way to the recycling bin 

[Kand]

I wouldn't get too down on the GRE scores CP3. My GRE scores aren't perfect either, but every other aspect of my application will leave no room for doubt that I'm serious about research and have already demonstrated a capacity to both present and publish.

[music]

The GRE is the only non-subjective element of the application. People will tell you that the GRE is used to evaluate your capability to perform in Grad school. WRONG!! Does a geometry formula have anything to do with writing a 200 page dissertation in grad school? Maybe if you are an engineer, but keep in mind, the math on the GRE is not college level math. Doubtful that is used by any math or engineering major at the grad school level.

 

Disagree to some extent. A poor GRE score implies a lack of willingness to study for the test (since I'd say anyone willing to truely put in a lot of time can do well enough), which is indicative of work ethic and, ultimately, strength of desire to go to grad school. I'm guessing there are a lot of seemingly pointless and/or less than enjoyable hoops to jump through during the process of getting a PhD alongside the fun stuff, and being able to apply yourself to succeed in such circumstances is a skill demonstrated aptly by getting a decent GRE score. For example, some of us will need to study for more language exams than we might feel is necessary during our PhD career (not me, but say an Americanist doing ethno, who in some schools would need three additional languages...). The study process involved there would probably be similar to that required to do well on GRE maths. I guess the more I study for the test, the more I appreciate what a good way it is of weeding out a lot of applicants with minimal effort. Which is certainly making me work a lot harder.

[CP3]

I agree with this statement. 

 

I've always been pretty bad with math. I'm afraid that I will score poorly on the Qaunt no matter how much I study. A poor score has nothing to do with my academic ability.

 

Either way, I am going to study as much as time allows (I currently work 45-50 hours a week). Hopefully my efforts will pay off.

 

Some people aren't the greatest test takers, no matter how much time they study. This bothers me in regards to test scores.

[Counterpointer]

English is not my first language so the verbal was like hell for me.

When I first took it, I got embarrassing under 150 in V. Low 150s in Q too. AW=3........

 

That was in October last year, and after 5 weeks, in November, I took it again.

That time, I got high 150s in both V and Q. AW=4.

 

I studied really hard for that 5 weeks, carrying my ipod everywhere I went and listened to GRE vocab CD.

There were also downloadable video lessons which I paid a great deal of $$ for.

Listening and watching really helped. Especially listening-- hence I'm a musician.

Try to take advantage of your technology!

This test is so messed up- I feel like GRE is testing who has the most time for studying it.

If you have so much time that you can memorize 10k GRE vocabs, you'll get almost perfect score in V.

Adcomms know it, but they do want to get rid of applicants who don't put an effort.

However, it is true that you can't do poorly on other aspects of your app because you were studying for GRE.. balancing these two is really difficult indeed.

 

I stupidly tried getting into PhD straight from Bachelors and totally failed, I think I'm going to re-take GRE after my first year in masters (I'm doing 3 year double masters). Just too much to do both application work and GRE at the same time..

[CP3]

I am fortunate to be an American english speaker. I did really well on my practice exams on the Verbal at home, but bombed it on test day. The cold environment of test day was much different from home! 

 

If I can get around 162 on Verbal and the upper 150's on Quant, I would be satisfied. 

[CP3]

Wow, a lot of crickets chirping in this thread..... I guess the GRE talk put it to sleep!!

 

So...ummmm...any new thoughts out there from prospective grad school applicants???

[music]

I'd love to hear what kinds of writing samples people are sending in. Just the titles, or whatever - I'm curious to see what kind of variety there is. Is anyone writing something specifically to send, as opposed to using a pre-existing paper?

[CP3]

My writing samples are music compositions, but yes, I am working on two new pieces that will be performed and recorded in October and November. These will be the primary pieces in my portfolio that I will be sending to schools this upcoming Fall.

[Kand]

I'm still debating on what to submit. Some places appear to want two contrasting papers (one analytical / one historical) while other schools would prefer a chapter from the thesis. I've actually got a fair number of writing samples/conference papers that just need to be looked over and revised a bit more and then it's basically strategizing. I'm sure my advisor will have some thoughts on what exactly to use.

[Karajan]

Submit your strongest papers, whatever the topics happen to be.  

[ameliaj]

Submit your strongest papers, whatever the topics happen to be.  

 

I hope so! I was a performance major in undergrad, so I never wrote a thesis (2 recitals instead). I was planning on submiting 2 samples- One is an analysis paper from a graduate seminar on Mahler (which I am giving a major overhaul), and one is more of a history paper but includes a detailed analysis on Bernstein's first symphony. The second one was submitted by the professor for publication in an archive for outstanding original student research (yay!) so I am more confident about it than the first one.

 

I recently started to worry a lot, however, because neither paper is directly related to the research goals that I planned to give in my Statement of Purpose. My primary area of interest is late romantic german opera and lied, and I was hoping to focus either on Wagner's Operas (I am interested in sketch and genesis studies and performance practice, particulary the earlier ones) or Brahms Lieder (text-music relationship). I am currently working toward a Masters in German, so that I can do a project with a heavy german language component.

 

Are these papers related enough? Do you think I should emphasize my interest in Lieder because that is closer to what I wrote about in the Mahler paper?

 

Also, as a side note, how specific should one be in a statement of purpose? Is it okay to identify a variety of interests, or should one focus on proposing a specific project?

 

Sorry for all of the questions!

[music]

Took my GRE today - so glad that's done. Got respectable enough scores of 165V/158Q. Looking forward to focussing on the bits of the application which I'll actually enjoy now! Umm after I've done my first conference that is...

 

I'm not sure what you're *meant* to say in your SoP but I'm just being totally honest with how defined my current research is. My potential dissertation topic is pretty specific, but I have strong secondary interests which I'll talk about. In terms of writing samples, I intend to explain in my SoP why I selected the ones I sent, and how they relate to my research. Being a performance major I totally get how frustrating it can be to have a limited choice of papers to choose from :/

[CP3]

Took my GRE today - so glad that's done. Got respectable enough scores of 165V/158Q. Looking forward to focussing on the bits of the application which I'll actually enjoy now! Umm after I've done my first conference that is...

 

I'm not sure what you're *meant* to say in your SoP but I'm just being totally honest with how defined my current research is. My potential dissertation topic is pretty specific, but I have strong secondary interests which I'll talk about. In terms of writing samples, I intend to explain in my SoP why I selected the ones I sent, and how they relate to my research. Being a performance major I totally get how frustrating it can be to have a limited choice of papers to choose from :/

fantastic! Good job on the GRE scores!! I'm taking the test at the end of September, took it last year and BOMBED it! 

 

Right now I am researching good ways to approach the SOP. Last year I spent too much time delving into my past, rather than putting the primary focus on my current projects. Hopefully I can score well on the GRE and produce a concise SoP. Right now I am playing the juggling game: GRE, SoP, portfolio, researching grad programs and working a full time job. I'll be glad when the applications are done!

[music]

fantastic! Good job on the GRE scores!! I'm taking the test at the end of September, took it last year and BOMBED it! 

 

Right now I am researching good ways to approach the SOP. Last year I spent too much time delving into my past, rather than putting the primary focus on my current projects. Hopefully I can score well on the GRE and produce a concise SoP. Right now I am playing the juggling game: GRE, SoP, portfolio, researching grad programs and working a full time job. I'll be glad when the applications are done!

 

Thanks! I was a little disappointed with the quant, since so much of it was geometry which is my weakest part, but happy with verbal.

 

That's brave of you to juggle all parts of the ap at once. I am taking on one at a time since I'm in my final year of college, double majoring in musicology and performance, and also have 12 violin students plus school academic music teaching. There isn't room in my brain for any more than one bit of the ap process at once. Visits done, programs picked and GRE taken, now it's on to SoP while writing my conference paper. Hopefully by the time school starts back in mid-September I'll only need to clean up my two chosen writing samples and get LoRs. It'll still end up being a mad rush though, right? 

[kccur]

Submit your strongest papers, whatever the topics happen to be.  

 

This is what I've been told (both by profs at my institution as well as those at others) as well. I was a little bit worried about sending two Ravel papers, since he's been most of what I've been writing about for the last two years, but was told that it's better to send better work than more variety. That said, I've got a pop music/cultural studies paper in the works, so hopefully that'll pan out. 

 

Can't believe it's already application season again, I feel like I just got over my PTSD from masters applications two years ago. Siiiiiiiigh

[music]

Do any MA programs offer the possibility of full funding? Had a look, found none, thinking that if my shockingly optimistic choice of schools all reject me I might be better off getting an MA here in the UK...or to put it bluntly, I'd have no choice.

[Kand]

So I've been thinking about this recently... since a lot of programs have page limits in their online document submission programs, is it appropriate to upload just the text of the paper without the bibliography/cover page/etc. so you can save space?

[Counterpointer]

Do any MA programs offer the possibility of full funding? Had a look, found none, thinking that if my shockingly optimistic choice of schools all reject me I might be better off getting an MA here in the UK...or to put it bluntly, I'd have no choice.

As far as I know, Indiana University's MA is pretty good. (I went there for undergrad) Everyone gets 96.5% tuition remission, free Health insurance and stipends. Of course, it's only MA.... they don't give you 20k/year like in PhD.. After you pay all the service fees and 3.5% of tuition, I think you get just under 9k/year. If you're very savvy, you can probably live off on that. Bloomington is pretty cheap place. If you get a summer job, you'll be just fine. (you CAN work outside of campus if you're international and you've finished one academic year)

 

University of Memphis offers full tuition remission+7000/year stipends. I'm assuming that all the admitted musicology applicants get TAship. 

I don't think there's any school that would offer 20k/year, but there are some pretty good offers, if you look for them.

 

I'm not a musicology person so it sucks for me, but there seems to be many places that offer pretty good $$$ for successful MA musicology students. Penn State offers either 7k or 14k/year for being TA. Look into well-known public universities. Make sure that it is a very large university, where they need TA. 

[music]

Awesome info, thanks Counterpointer! Still totally confused about whether to pay a bunch more application fees for programs which don't guarantee full funding. Since I can't get loans or work properly on an international student visa, full tuition plus stipend is the only way I'll go to grad school. These application fees are no joke. Even with just the six I'm definitely shooting for, I'll have shelled out over £1k in total. Plus the £2k I spent travelling to visit schools over the summer. How do people without jobs manage to afford this process??

[CP3]

The price of applications is brutal! Fees, GRE scores, transcripts, postage etc. It adds up real quick. I'm looking at spending around 1500 this year, possibly more.

 

Funding is tricky at many schools. Some offer a guarantee of full funding if you are admitted. Some of them are merit based. Beware though, the schools that offer guaranteed funding usually are extremely competitive and have only several spots available. Half of the schools I applied to last year were like this, and I was rejected across the board.

 

I've been reading a book about admissions and essays. The author makes it clear that you have NO IDEA what your funding will be at most schools until AFTER they accept you. Some schools won't even let you know what the funding package is until after the April 15 deadline.

[Counterpointer]

The price of applications is brutal! Fees, GRE scores, transcripts, postage etc. It adds up real quick. I'm looking at spending around 1500 this year, possibly more.

 

Funding is tricky at many schools. Some offer a guarantee of full funding if you are admitted. Some of them are merit based. Beware though, the schools that offer guaranteed funding usually are extremely competitive and have only several spots available. Half of the schools I applied to last year were like this, and I was rejected across the board.

 

I've been reading a book about admissions and essays. The author makes it clear that you have NO IDEA what your funding will be at most schools until AFTER they accept you. Some schools won't even let you know what the funding package is until after the April 15 deadline.

 

1500 is a lot.. but that's what everyone's paying I suppose.. I'm in my first year in MM theory program. I'm already thinking about Fall 2015...... but I still think I would NOT make a strong applicant by then. I think I'll just go back to my undergrad institution in Fall 2015----to Indiana University. I can get into their MM composition or performance programs with TAships no problem, just that I'm still not a great writer to be a PhD student in musicology/theory. I think I'll just take MM performance while taking some history/theory courses at Indiana University. Perhaps credentials at Indiana will help me. Perhaps I'll be applying to real PhD programs in Fall 2017.... 

 

I'm not going to spend $1000+ on applications when I feel doubtful about my strength as an applicant.. My mistake in the fall 2013 season was not knowing where I stand among other applicants. I was clearly not ready and I bet I'm not alone in doing that. Sometimes it takes a long time to get ready for such a life-changing admissions. Fall 13 was a disaster for me. Now looking forward to Fall 17.. No rush for me this time. 

 

First deadlines are coming up in just over 2 months? How's everyone doing? 

[CP3]

1500 is a lot.. but that's what everyone's paying I suppose.. I'm in my first year in MM theory program. I'm already thinking about Fall 2015...... but I still think I would NOT make a strong applicant by then. I think I'll just go back to my undergrad institution in Fall 2015----to Indiana University. I can get into their MM composition or performance programs with TAships no problem, just that I'm still not a great writer to be a PhD student in musicology/theory. I think I'll just take MM performance while taking some history/theory courses at Indiana University. Perhaps credentials at Indiana will help me. Perhaps I'll be applying to real PhD programs in Fall 2017.... 

 

I'm not going to spend $1000+ on applications when I feel doubtful about my strength as an applicant.. My mistake in the fall 2013 season was not knowing where I stand among other applicants. I was clearly not ready and I bet I'm not alone in doing that. Sometimes it takes a long time to get ready for such a life-changing admissions. Fall 13 was a disaster for me. Now looking forward to Fall 17.. No rush for me this time. 

 

First deadlines are coming up in just over 2 months? How's everyone doing? 

It is a lot of money to spend when feeling uncertain, which is why I am strongly debating waiting another year to apply. I learned last year that I was not as strong of an applicant as I originally thought. Once I gathered all of my application materials together, it became clear that I was at a disadvantage. Nonetheless, I applied. I did not get accepted, but I'm glad I applied, I learned quite a bit from the process.

 

I have been working diligently over the last several months on my application materials, but lately I have begun to have doubts. I don't want to spend so much time, energy and money if I don't feel like I can compete with other applicants. Another year would put me in the position I need to be in financially and professionally. Time will tell. 

 

Hope everyone's applications are going well.