"Safety" Schools?

[NowMoreSerious]

I've been around the Ph.D. application process for 3 years now *I heard myself saying this in a cowboy accent, for some reason*. (My significant other applied 2 years ago, I applied last year, and several friends of mine applied this year). For the past three seasons, I've been on Gradcafe and one of the things (I think) that we've learned is that there's no such thing as a "safety" school anymore.

It isn't that some schools aren't more difficult to get into than others, but that all schools are difficult to get into, and the process seems to be pretty random and full of inconsistency and chaos. And it doesn't seem to be getting any better.

Which is why it's perplexing to me that this term "safety" seems to have made a comeback this year. I might be overstating, but both in this Literature board, and in the results page, I see it more times than I ever have in the past two years.

I don't know what to make of it, but I just wanted to point it out to see if anybody had any opinions on the matter.

[purpleperson]

There are a few schools I applied to that I think I have a better chance at than others because 1) they are lower ranked, 2) one of my advisors explicitly said she thought I had a better chance at them than at the more prestigious schools, and 3) the lower-ranked schools that publish GRE minimums are in line with my low(ish) GRE score.  But I really don't use the term "safety" school, not even in my head, because I don't think of them as safety schools.  Honestly, I don't think I'll get into them.  I hope, but I don't think...I'll get into them.  Furthermore, something about the term "safety school" implies that you don't really want to go there but you'd consider it if that was the only place you got into.  For me, these "safety" schools I applied to (or, as I said is the way I refer to them, "lower-ranked schools" I applied to, are places I prefer over some of the higher-ranked ones.  There's a school I applied to that's in the 90s on the rankings, and I'd rather go there than to some schools I applied to that are in the 40s.  

 

Since I've only been around the PhD application process once (this year), I haven't noticed a rise in the usage of the term "safety" school.  However, I would say that almost every time I have heard someone use it on this board, they've put quotes around the word to show that they know that there is no such thing, or if they don't use quotes, they still follow up to say they don't believe it really is a safe school but only so relative to the other schools they applied to.  

Edited January 28, 2014 by purpleperson

[Zissoupy]

The concept of a "safety" school is silly and naive. There is just no such thing.

[cheeks]

It's also super arrogant. 

 

"My top schools where I want to apply to are Oxford and the Sorbonne. But my safety's Harvard."

[Katia_chan]

I could be freakishly wrong, but it seems like we have a lot of first time applicants this round.  There are a couple people around who have done this before *raises hand resignedly*, but it seems like a lot of applicants I've seen are first-timers.

 

Now, that doesn't make much of a difference, but it's less time they've spent hearing the GC "NO SAFETY" mantra.

 

It's going to sound like I'm mocking new people, but I'm totally not.  Just that you learn from haunting this place  season after season.  And who knows. I might be wrong about the ratios completely.

 

...Or, alternatively, this year's applicants have a hell of a lot more confidence than I ever have.

[rhetoricus aesalon]

Thinking "safety school" immediately takes me back to high school, when gearing up for undergrad applications always included that one state school that sent you the admit letter before you even applied--where tobacco lawsuit money was being thrown at you to attend and you still prayed you didn't have to.

 

A safety school connotes that if you have a pulse and graduate, you will get in. This doesn't exist in grad school. 

 

And thinking so is pretty dangerous: what happens if you don't get into your safety school?

[shortstack51]

I've been through the process a couple of times and I use the term "safety." I agree that it can come off arrogant, so maybe I'll avoid using it, but I use it to denote schools that I have a statistically better chance of getting into based on where my MA is from, my scores, etc. and based on the suggestions of professors. When I applied the first time, I was told by undergraduate professors to specifically pick "safety" schools and have a good mix of top tier, mid-level, and "safety". Of course, the process is totally random and chaotic, as has been stated, so I don't expect that I'll be getting in anywhere. I'd be ecstatic to get into one of my "safeties." Every school that I don't think of as a safety is pretty much a reach because of how competitive the process is.

 

But I agree that the general usage of "safety" can be pretty arrogant and/or naive. Maybe I ought to pick a better word for "schools I think I have a better chance of getting into out of the 11 I applied to." Any suggestions?

[Tweedledumb]

Hmm...I use the word "safety" and this is my first round of PhD apps, but I'm not using it in a way that means I have a better chance of getting in there over another program. I use it kind of like "safety in numbers," like my last application was to a "safety" school just so that I had another application out there. I'm not making a lot of sense, too much caffeine, but I'm not at all confident that I'll get into any program -- so my use of "safety" is just comforting knowing I have 15 apps out there and hopefully one pans out. 

 

*end ramble*

[antecedent]

I've been through the process a couple of times and I use the term "safety." I agree that it can come off arrogant, so maybe I'll avoid using it, but I use it to denote schools that I have a statistically better chance of getting into based on where my MA is from, my scores, etc. and based on the suggestions of professors. When I applied the first time, I was told by undergraduate professors to specifically pick "safety" schools and have a good mix of top tier, mid-level, and "safety". Of course, the process is totally random and chaotic, as has been stated, so I don't expect that I'll be getting in anywhere. I'd be ecstatic to get into one of my "safeties." Every school that I don't think of as a safety is pretty much a reach because of how competitive the process is.

 

But I agree that the general usage of "safety" can be pretty arrogant and/or naive. Maybe I ought to pick a better word for "schools I think I have a better chance of getting into out of the 11 I applied to." Any suggestions?

 

My supervisor used the phrasing "less competitive" to describe those schools, which I think is fair. Even though your fit might be the same for Harvard and SmallState University, and both may have very good programs for your field, Harvard is likely going to be 'more competitive' in that they were probably get more applications than SSU and will also probably have better funding and support. It doesn't mean SSU isn't a good school and that you couldn't do good work there, it's just like shortstack said, you are statistically more likely to get in to SSU than Harvard, though you still might not get in to either. FUN! 

[Gwendolyn]

The concept of a "safety" school is silly and naive. There is just no such thing.

How/Why? My undergraduate school funnels people into a particular nearby program at a larger university. Although the program is not extremely highly ranked or competitive (typically placed in the 90s on USNWR), it has regional name recognition, gives full funding (to MA and PhD students) and thus serves its graduates well. With a foreknowledge of the students from my undergraduate department who have been admitted (their grades, test scores, interests, writing abilities, graduate advisors etc.), I was certain I (as well as my professors) I would get in. Guess what. I got in (I immediately rejected the offer). Nonetheless, for my very specific situation, it was my "safety school." I don't  think there is no such thing as a safety school, but safety schools are extremely relative to one's personal situation/standing. If you have enough knowledge of a program and it's admits, etc. I think you can pretty much gauge your ability to get accepted. Trying to gauge your chances at Harvard, or UVA, or UC Berkeley etc. are far more difficult than Regional State University. Call it arrogant. Fine. It still stands that sometimes "safe schools" exist. 

Edited January 29, 2014 by Gwendolyn

[Gwendolyn]

Notice, everyone on TGC is talking about applying to well-known private or public flagship universities. Nobody is talking about applying to Texas Woman's University or Southeastern Oklahoma State University. That's not to say those schools (IDK if they even have English grad programs) are not great schools, but schools with less name recognition seem to be less competitive which most probably makes them easier to get into. 

[NowMoreSerious]

I think the impetus for my thread was more a caution against a certain type of thinking about graduate school admissions. Sure, literally, as a fact there could be such thing as a safety school in certain situations--though even then I am sure the school you described above rejects people as well.

But I didn't make this thread because people were naming Middle Tennessee State as their safety school. They aren't. They are naming schools in the top 50 at worst.

I was also bringing to light the general irrationality and seeming randomness of admissions. So people should not panic if they don't get into their 'safety' school or think they are getting in everywhere if they get into one of their top choices.

[toasterazzi]

I don't have any feelings one way or the other about the safety school debate really. However, I did just want to chime in and say that Middle Tennessee State is actually one of the programs I applied to hehe. It may not be highly ranked, but it has a lot of professors doing work in areas and teaching courses that interest me. Plus, I love Tennessee and I have a lot of family/friends in the area .

[Zissoupy]

I think we need to he careful about panning certain schools just because they aren't in the top fifty.

As far as the safety school debate goes, I know I have some schools about which I feel much more confident of my chances. For example, I feel better about my chances at Nebraska than I do about my chances at Berkeley. That doesn't mean Nebraska isn't a fab school and that it is "safe" by any means, but it is "safer" for me to be excited about and I won't be as disappointed when I'm rejected. I guess that's what I mean by a "safety" school, if I were to refer to one as such.

As a side note, I am a first round applicant and I know how unlikely it is to be accepted to a PhD program. That being said, I feel confident in my chances. I don't think that others should view me negatively for that. Let us be confident and feel good about ourselves. We haven't yet been around for a couple of application rounds, but that doesn't necessary mean that those who have somehow know better than us how we should feel about our chances. Maybe we are confident for a reason. There is a good chance that won't translate to acceptances, but it doesn't hurt you any for us to be positive about ourselves.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Switters

[NowMoreSerious]

My apologies if anything I said came off as me trying to affect anybody's self-confidence. And I understand that maybe this was not a great time to start a thread with this topic considering that it's probably the most stressful time for applicants.

Good luck to everyone and as I said in another thread I'm always available to anybody if they have any questions about this process.

I've also visited the following schools if anybody has questions: Tufts, University of Minnesota, University of Virginia, UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara.

Obviously, I know UCLA quite intimately, as well.

[jazzyd]

Thinking "safety school" immediately takes me back to high school, when gearing up for undergrad applications always included that one state school that sent you the admit letter before you even applied--where tobacco lawsuit money was being thrown at you to attend and you still prayed you didn't have to.

 

A safety school connotes that if you have a pulse and graduate, you will get in. This doesn't exist in grad school. 

 

And thinking so is pretty dangerous: what happens if you don't get into your safety school?

 

This, too, is what I think of when I hear the term "safety school" (even then, the sister of someone I knew got into Notre Dame but was rejected from a much much less prestigious school in-state). So that's why I back the "no such thing" mantra regarding safety schools and grad admissions. I doubt people who say this (I certainly am not) are in denial that some programs by statistics alone are 'easier' and 'harder' to get into than others because of the sheer volume of applications some schools are getting over others. 

 

What's less important than the safety school or not consideration imo, is whether or not the applicant has applied to a range of respected programs (which exist all along the USNWR spectrum) with a great fit and good placement record. 

[iExcelAtMicrosoftPuns]

"Safety" school.

At least for the MA - I have certainly identified "safety" schools. 

But safetys aren't guarantees are they?  I look at them like safety nets... sometimes you miss the net.

[BostonClem]

My apologies if anything I said came off as me trying to affect anybody's self-confidence. And I understand that maybe this was not a great time to start a thread with this topic considering that it's probably the most stressful time for applicants.

Good luck to everyone and as I said in another thread I'm always available to anybody if they have any questions about this process.

I've also visited the following schools if anybody has questions: Tufts, University of Minnesota, University of Virginia, UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara.

Obviously, I know UCLA quite intimately, as well.

 

I'd like to take you up on your offer to answer questions about Minnesota and Virginia.... When/how were you notified by both of those schools about their decision? What made you turn down their offers of admission? (I'm assuming that you visited because you were admitted).  I don't want to hijack the thread, so if you'd prefer to respond elsewhere/PM me, go right ahead. 

And to respond to the "safety school" debate, I'm definitely of the opinion that safety schools don't exist. Yes, I may be statistically more likely to get into one school over another, but it's still statistically unlikely that I'll get into any school at all. I don't feel confident about a single school on my list, regardless of its rank, even though there are a couple that I just feel a little better about. Duke felt like an impossibility (but one worth shooting for). Some of the others at least feel possible...

[NowMoreSerious]

I'd like to take you up on your offer to answer questions about Minnesota and Virginia.... When/how were you notified by both of those schools about their decision? What made you turn down their offers of admission? (I'm assuming that you visited because you were admitted).  I don't want to hijack the thread, so if you'd prefer to respond elsewhere/PM me, go right ahead. 

And to respond to the "safety school" debate, I'm definitely of the opinion that safety schools don't exist. Yes, I may be statistically more likely to get into one school over another, but it's still statistically unlikely that I'll get into any school at all. I don't feel confident about a single school on my list, regardless of its rank, even though there are a couple that I just feel a little better about. Duke felt like an impossibility (but one worth shooting for). Some of the others at least feel possible...

I'll pm you.

[SilasWegg]

I put this in scare quotes knowing that there really is no such thing. If you've done your research, you know that even lower-ranked schools only accept about 10% of applicants. Also, rankings are completely subjective and tell you very little about a program's relative strengths and weaknesses. If there were such a thing as a safety school, everyone would apply there and it wouldn't be safe anymore.

 

I hope for this thread to start a little conversation about "sleeper" programs; in other words, programs that might be undervalued or overlooked by applicants and the robots that put together the rankings. We are all probably trying to apply to a mix of schools, some reaches and some seemingly less competitive. By sharing our ideas about middle of the pack or even "lower tier" programs we might get some new ideas about where to apply.

 

For instance, I'm putting in applications to Florida (#52), Texas A&M (#59), Temple (#63), Delaware (#63). These programs are all pretty strong in my field (C19 American) and all offer funding. To me, they seem just as appealing as Brown, UVA, Duke and the like. I'd love to know about more schools outside of USN's Top 50 (pointless distinction) that are solid in my field and have good funding opportunities. Also, I'd love to know about other "sleeper" programs in other fields.

 

Let's get this going... maybe you will get some ideas to make some last minute adjustments to your application strategies. You might even get an acceptance to a really great program you had never considered before. There might be some truth to notion that more prestigious programs are more likely to land a tenure track job but, at the end of the day, if you distinguish yourself, it doesn't really matter where your degree is from, right?

[queennight]

This is a great thread idea, I'd love to hear suggestions as well!

[Dr. Old Bill]

Still in the USN top 50, but Brandeis has a very good reputation, yet never seems to get the love it deserves. I didn't apply for various reasons, but Ramie Targoff is one of the better scholars in my field, and it would have been a joy to work with her.

 

From a research perspective, one subtle strategy is to find programs that have reciprocal agreements with more reputable / established programs. A student at Rutgers, for example, can utilize many of the resources at Princeton. Rutgers is obviously no slouch unto itself, but there are many other examples of "lesser" programs affording their students the opportunity to benefit from some of the "better" programs' faculties, research centers, libraries etc. Always worth looking into, at least.

[lyonessrampant]

Schools that belong to research consortiums with the Newberry, Folger, and Huntington also benefit from research resources (both textual and monetary) that most applicants don't think about.  Go to the webpages for those libraries and you can see the lists of schools.  I'm a grad conference organizer for Newberry's annual grad student conference, and getting the opportunity to help plan and organize a large conference, preside over sessions, and edit the resulting conference publication is a great experience I wouldn't have gotten to do if my university weren't a part of that consortium.  Consortium relationships provide additional funding opportunities to go do research at the libraries as well, so schools that don't appear on the USNWR top 50 list may offer better research opportunities because of their consortium relationship.  Here's a link to the Newberry's current members: http://www.newberry.org/center-renaissance-studies-consortium-members

[ComeBackZinc]

I encourage you to do a search of the forum for this topic, as there are several long threads devoted to the idea.

[lifealive]

It's interesting; the year I applied, people were thrilled to get into Florida or UMass-Amherst or something thereabouts. Now I don't see too many of these schools on people's lists here. I don't know if that's because of the way the job market has tightened up or because people who seek out places like Grad Cafe are generally very motivated. But I would encourage people to look beyond the top 20 or 30 or 40. Had I refused to go outside of the top 20, I wouldn't have gone to graduate school at all--or at least not without several rounds of applications. I'm glad I decided to take the chance and go to the program that accepted me rather than apply multiple times to get into my top school. I know someone who applied three years in a row. Eventually they got into their dream program, but they're still slogging through grad school.

 

Anyway, I have recently met people who go to University of Kentucky and University of North Carolina Greensboro, and they've really enjoyed their programs.