Rejected from Ph.d but suggested Masters

[likemythesis]

So I received a slight punch in the gut this morning from my top choice for Educational Psychology. They said I was not selected as a finalist for the Ph.d track but think I'd be a "well-suited candidate" for the Masters program and said to let them know whether to consider me.

 

Part of me is of course bummed, but could this be considered a lucky break? It's better than a straight no, and I'm assuming if I got in I could just reapply for the Ph.d once I finish.

 

Thoughts? Solidarity from any one else who has gotten similar news?

[ginagirl]

Although I'm not in Psych programs, I have gotten similar news. At first I was discouraged, but now I see it as a second chance to prove myself to a great program. My suggestion is emailing the department, expressing your appreciation for the offer to the Masters program, and asking about statistics of Masters students reapplying for the PhD within the department (what percent of Masters students reapply within the department and how many are usually successful). Then you can decide what you want to do given what they say!

[Canis]

Don't do an MA program if your goal is a PhD unless they're willing to fully fund you as an MA student. Wait and re-apply next year for the PhD.

[ginagirl]

I'm unsure if Canis' reasoning is related to your specific field or not, but as my boss says "There is more than one way to skin a cat". If you love the program and are willing to deal with lack of funding to have a better shot at being admitted to their PhD, I don't see why you shouldn't go for it. Waiting until next year to try again is only beneficial if you know you will be able to improve your application. Otherwise you'll end up in the same spot. It's such an individual decision though, and is not one-size-fits-all, by any means.

Edited February 11, 2014 by ginagirl

[ginagirl]

also there is a somewhat relevant discussion going on over here: 

[Canis]

Have a look at Karen article "Should You Go To Graduate School?"

 

The advice I'm giving is based on the idea that doing the MA will add a substantial amount of debt, will take 2 years, and will not actually move the candidate closer to admissions. Unless it's a terminal MA that they want to use for a specific job.

 

Here's an excerpt from the above article to help you think about your motivation for pursuing the MA and the PhD:

 

"Understand that doing the Ph.D., especially in the humanities, is a terribly risky proposition financially. During the years in the program, even if you are “fully funded,” the quote-unquote full funding is inadequate to support most people’s actual expenses, particularly if they have a partner, children, a health challenge, or any other responsibilities.

 

Understand that if you do it, you almost certainly will not get a full time permanent tenure track academic job at the end that will even begin to make back the money you invested into the program. Even if you get a permanent job, the pay scale of faculty is low enough in most colleges and universities outside the elite schools, that you will be unable to pay off your undergraduate student debt or readily meet basic expenses like child care or medical expenses.

 

There is also opportunity cost. While in graduate school you will lose many years in the workforce. You will lose any trajectory toward seniority in any other field you might currently be in. You will experience perhaps a decade of lost wages and lost payment into social security; these losses will follow you through to retirement.

 

Understand that you will not be told the truth about this by anyone in any graduate program to which you apply.

 

If you still feel determined to consider this step, I would advise it be only under the following conditions:

•  You do not have substantial debt from your undergraduate degree, that is to say, debt above $15,000-$20,000.
• You are offered a full funding package that includes tuition waiver, all fees, and a stipend.
• You take out absolutely no new debt to undertake the degree. This means that you must either be prepared to live on a stipend of approximately $15,000-$20,000 a year, have a partner/spouse/family member who can augment that stipend, or work a second job to augment the stipend yourself.
• You go to one of the very best programs in the country, judged by funding available, prestige, and job placement rate. This is not because of elitism, but because only these programs deliver the financial support and connections that give you a fighting chance of a debt-free degree and permanent employment at the end.
• You avoid any second or third tier Ph.D. program like the plague, regardless of what they appear to offer by way of programs in your area of interest. Your Ph.D. will not be competitive for a wide enough range of jobs at the end. Online Ph.D.s are beneath consideration.
• You align yourself, before signing on, with an advisor who is well known, who is at the peak of his/her career (no asst profs, no emeritii), who has recently placed other Ph.D.s in tenure track jobs before you, and who is genuinely and personally invested in your arrival to the program. 
• You understand that the system is entirely hierarchical and productivity-based, and you will be judged by your high-status output (publications in major journals, national grants, high profile conferences, famous recommenders) more than by the inherent “brilliance” of your ideas.
• You approach academic pursuits as a job, not a calling.
• You approach graduate school as vocational training for a job.
• You do everything I say in the column, Graduate School Is a Means to a Job, religiously and without excuses.
• You are under 35, and ideally, under 30. If you fail to find permanent employment within 3-4 years after completion of the Ph.D., this outcome will be far less disastrous if you are still in your thirties and can reinvent yourself for a different career track. The financial stakes for middle-aged people are exponentially higher, the risks exponentially greater, than for younger people."

[likemythesis]

Thanks to both of you for your input. I am definitely going to ask about the stats for those reapplying to the Phd while in the Masters, but I'm also definitely going to have a chat with my mentor and my parental before anything is set in stone. I have until the end of the month to respond.

[ginagirl]

Definitely! It's a big decision and having all the facts and time to digest them is the only thing you can do. Best of luck!

[Canis]

If they're telling you that you have to respond right away - you can always ask for an extension. It's really worth investigating if the MA program is right for you, right for your career and life goals, and making sure it's not just the cash cow for the university.

[likemythesis]

I have until the 27th to respond, which is pretty great. And yeah, I have some dwelling to do.

[PsychGirl1]

I went the master's route (I applied directly to the master's program), and about half our class were PhD applicants who were invited to the the MS program. It was a fantastic choice for me and I am really happy I chose to do it. I'd take a close look at the master's program- visit the campus if possible and also ask to speak to current 1st and 2nd year students- and if it is mentor-based, if that mentor is a really great research fit, if there is a way to minimize costs (ex. commuting from the burbs, scholarships, TA'ing, graduate assistantships within the department, PT RA/RC jobs in the department, etc.), if it's two years, and if you get to do a thesis, then I'd strongly recommend it . If there are things missing from that list, then you'd have to weigh the pros and cons.

 

Good luck!

[iphi]

Ah, I'm guessing you are the UVA entry for Applied Developmental Science? Congrats! I didn't hear from them at all, which was a blow considering I already have a Master's degree!

 

I know I'm a tad late, but I would give you two pieces of advice:

 

1. Just say you want to be considered, then see what your options are after you get a definitive response (admitted or not to MA program). That way you get to make a choice after knowing all your options.

 

2. Do you have any other offers for a PhD? Because if you do (and they're funded) you should probably take them. I know it sucks not being able to go to your top program (of my top 2 one doesn't give good funding - a dealbreaker for me, and the other waitlisted me) but IMO it's not worth the risk of doing an MA - especially if unpaid - and not having any guarantee for continuing for a PhD. Plus, if your MA school ultimately didn't take you on, you'd probably have to repeat a bunch of courses for your eventual PhD, which would be a huge bummer!

Edited February 16, 2014 by iphi

[likemythesis]

Ah, I'm guessing you are the UVA entry for Applied Developmental Science? Congrats! I didn't hear from them at all, which was a blow considering I already have a Master's degree!

 

I know I'm a tad late, but I would give you two pieces of advice:

 

1. Just say you want to be considered, then see what your options are after you get a definitive response (admitted or not to MA program). That way you get to make a choice after knowing all your options.

 

2. Do you have any other offers for a PhD? Because if you do (and they're funded) you should probably take them. I know it sucks not being able to go to your top program (of my top 2 one doesn't give good funding - a dealbreaker for me, and the other waitlisted me) but IMO it's not worth the risk of doing an MA - especially if unpaid - and not having any guarantee for continuing for a PhD. Plus, if your MA school ultimately didn't take you on, you'd probably have to repeat a bunch of courses for your eventual PhD, which would be a huge bummer!

 

Yeah that is me! Thank you. I went ahead and said to consider me. Since making this post I've received an offer from UT Austin for a Phd and I'm waiting to hear about funding. 

 

(Also congrats on getting into UNC. I'm currently an undergrad there, so I'm always tickled to see people getting accepted.)

[iphi]

Yeah that is me! Thank you. I went ahead and said to consider me. Since making this post I've received an offer from UT Austin for a Phd and I'm waiting to hear about funding. 

 

(Also congrats on getting into UNC. I'm currently an undergrad there, so I'm always tickled to see people getting accepted.)

 

Thanks! UNC was my #1 until I found out that they don't fully fund, i.e. I'd probably have to pay (out-of-state) tuition!

 

Congrats on UT Austin! That's a great school!

[rugox]

Yeah that is me! Thank you. I went ahead and said to consider me. Since making this post I've received an offer from UT Austin for a Phd and I'm waiting to hear about funding. 

 

(Also congrats on getting into UNC. I'm currently an undergrad there, so I'm always tickled to see people getting accepted.)

 

Never say yes to a program just because. You should also never say yes just because it is the only option you have (i.e. having only one acceptance). It is too big of a risk to take on a Ph.D. program when you are not completely happy or sure about your options. Ph.D. programs are a way of life and it would be foolish to just attend it thinking things will work out. It is not so bad to take another year to prepare again if you really want to test your full potential.

[EastCoasting]

Yeah that is me! Thank you. I went ahead and said to consider me. Since making this post I've received an offer from UT Austin for a Phd and I'm waiting to hear about funding. 

 

(Also congrats on getting into UNC. I'm currently an undergrad there, so I'm always tickled to see people getting accepted.)

Congrats! Who was your POI at Austin?

[MsDarjeeling]

Yeah that is me! Thank you. I went ahead and said to consider me. Since making this post I've received an offer from UT Austin for a Phd and I'm waiting to hear about funding. 

 

(Also congrats on getting into UNC. I'm currently an undergrad there, so I'm always tickled to see people getting accepted.)

 

Well now you have options, this is good!  More could come if you haven't heard from everywhere yet =)

[lrbrade]

The same thing happened to me with Johns Hopkins. I applied for the the PhD in Mental Health and was told that I didn't make it but would be a great fit for the MHS program there. I am not sure how to respond to that. It is disappointing. Johns Hopkins is an amazing school but the funding!

[madame]

I did the masters route first and although its a lot of debt I think it was worth it. I knew that if I didn't go back to school I wouldn't have had much more to add to my application when I reapplied in the future. If you know that you can still do things to make yourself a better candidate without going to the masters program then maybe don't do it.

The best advice I got in the program is that the goal isn't to finish, its to get into a PhD program. You can start the masters in the fall and still reapply. Doing something shows youre more serious than doing nothing if this is your only option.

[Guest joshw4288]

I also did/am doing the M.A. route first. I applied directly out of undergrad to both types of programs and will finish my M.A. in May. The M.A. and the substantial research experience, manuscript, and conference talks that has come with it has allowed me options at the Ph.D. level that I do not believe I would have had if I just reapplied the next cycle. Financial considerations aside, going the M.A. route is an excellent choice. Certainly evaluate your current debt and the cost of the program being considered to determine whether it is feasible. I am completing my M.A. at an inexpensive public institution and it has served me very well. That said, it is possible to spend a year or two off being productive in research, giving talks etc. via a job as a research assistant, but this is also difficult to come by and be paid. For me, the M.A. has added substantially to my CV in direct and indirect ways. Additionally, it has opened up applications to places internationally that require an M.A. prior to admission to the Ph.D. program.

[likemythesis]

These are all great perspectives. I ended up being accepted for the Masters, so I at least have a back up plan if something happens with UT Austin that keeps me from going. But this is all great stuff for the next group of people to consider when they start applying as far as which route to take.