zblaesi Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Philosophers of religion are unlikely to get jobs. There is not much of a demand. That's the point, I believe. Which is why my friend has a good strategy. He's doing metaphysics that is highly related to cosmological arguments, but his papers aren't directly related to philosophy of religion. He can trick a program into hiring him, get tenture, and then spend the rest of his career publishing on philosophy of religion. Genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattDest Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) He also suggested that Notre Dame has this reputation of producing "philosophers for Christ," which migh play a role in the hiring process. Again, I could be 100% wrong - just throwing it out there. FWIW, this is the general impression that other philosophers I have talked to about this issue seem to have. You can even see this crop up in response papers (see Churchland's response to Plantinga's EAAN, for example). It seems to me that this is also the case, given how many people they accept from Biola. Edited February 25, 2014 by MattDest TheVineyard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zblaesi Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) FWIW, this is the general impression that other philosophers I have talked to about this issue seem to have. You can even see this crop up in response papers (see Churchland's response to Plantinga's EAAN, for example). It seems to me that this is also the case, given how many people they accept from Biola. I have sympathy for the philosophers of religion out there. I actually got into philosophy because of philosophy of religion. But you need to distinguish what is fun/interesting in the present from your ultimate endgame. That's my opinion, anyway. This might warrant a separate thread for those into philosophy of religion. Edited February 25, 2014 by zblaesi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I don't know if that is true, but I've talked with Rasmussen in the past, and he was struggling in the job market. Having said that, his focus was on philosophy of religion - so it might work differently for someone who is specializing in, say, metaphysics or something. However, I know a grad student at Rutgers who is very into philosophy of religion, and his reasoning was to focus on a non-religious specialization to increase the probability of getting hired out of college. Presumably, he can shift gears into philosophy of religion later once he has secured a position. This guy has expressed major pessimism over the education quality of Notre Dame, I think mostly because some of its biggest names recently retired. He also suggested that Notre Dame has this reputation of producing "philosophers for Christ," which migh play a role in the hiring process. Incidentally, I attended the Plantinga retirement ceremony as a freshman in community college, and I considered referencing it in my statement of purpose or to my letter writers. You know, to paint this impression of extracarricular passion for philosophy. Eric Schwitzgebel advised me against it for the reason that philosophy of religion is looked down upon. I personally don't know what the climate is like at Notre Dame, and I'm just going by hearsay. But it's probably worth taking into consideration. It couldn't hut to look into the placement record and/or contact some recent graduates from the program. Again, I could be 100% wrong - just throwing it out there. Food for thought. There seem to be three points being made: (1) Philosophy of religion is looked down upon. Even if this is true, I don't care. I'm not particularly interested in the philosophy of religion. (2) Notre Dame isn't as good now that several big names have retired (Plantinga, e.g.). Fair enough. Obviously, this is unfortunate, but it's probably not reason "to avoid Notre Dame like the plague." A lot of programs lose stature; a lot of programs (re)gain it. There's a far bit of fluctuation. (3) Notre Dame is reputed to produce "philosophers of Christ"; and admissions committees don't like that. It doesn't surprise me that, by and large, admissions committees wouldn't like that. But it'd be a damn shame if they overlooked the candidate's qualifications simply because he went to a school that happens to produce many Christian philosophers. (For the record, I'm not a Christian.) Anyway, this is an interesting discussion. I also noticed that there are many Biola grads at Notre Dame, MattDest. But I think we're probably jumping to conclusions when we say that Notre Dame should be "avoided like the plague." philosophia14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zblaesi Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Anyway, this is an interesting discussion. I also noticed that there are many Biola grads at Notre Dame, MattDest. But I think we're probably jumping to conclusions when we say that Notre Dame should be "avoided like the plague." To be clear: I was being hyperbolic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 To be clear: I was being hyperbolic. Well, whatever. You think it's not a great program to go to. All of this matters a lot to me, since I've been admitted to Notre Dame (and now Indiana) and need to figure out what to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zblaesi Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Well, whatever. You think it's not a great program to go to. All of this matters a lot to me, since I've been admitted to Notre Dame (and now Indiana) and need to figure out what to do! Yeah, but my thought is fairly superficial. I never even considered applying to Notre Dame primarily because it seems to fall far outside my areas of interest, so I know very little about the department beyond hearsay. But the impression of Notre Dame that has been painted to me is at least worth considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yeah, but my thought is fairly superficial. I never even considered applying to Notre Dame primarily because it seems to fall far outside my areas of interest, so I know very little about the department beyond hearsay. But the impression of Notre Dame that has been painted to me is at least worth considering. Right, well the impression is not without some logic to it. Anyway, thanks for your insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zblaesi Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Right, well the impression is not without some logic to it. Anyway, thanks for your insights. No problem! Good luck Oh, and someone should consider making a separate thread for this. It's sort of an interesting topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhD applicant Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Shit you guys are bumming me out, my sample was on religion... I guess I'd rather know this stuff. But I agree that it is off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zukunftsmusik Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Interesting discussion worth having. You guys can discuss what you'd like here since I don't have any moderating powers, but now we have almost a whole page of waitlist-irrelevant stuff in a waitlist thread. I would prefer we take stuff like this to PM or a separate thread so those of us eagerly awaiting waitlist news and movement don't have to wade through a whole page non-pertinent discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjpcampbell Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'm also a UT Austin wait-lister with an AOI in mind/metaethics hoping for an offer. I'm also currently wait listed at Duke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stressedout Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Just look at ND's placement record. It's abysmal over the last several years. Regardless of whether or not it's due to the Religious/Christian stuff, it's worth thinking about placement alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platonist Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'm also a UT Austin wait-lister with an AOI in mind/metaethics hoping for an offer. I'm also currently wait listed at Duke. Congratulations. Could you give more information about the notification of Duke waitlist? How did you get the notification (email, website, or other means)？ Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Wait listed at Wisconsin-Madison! Hooray! Gnothi_Seauton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVineyard Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Wait listed at Wisconsin-Madison! Hooray! Don't you know how this game is played? You get the notification, and then you tell us how+details. Only then are you allowed to Horray Edited February 25, 2014 by TheVineyard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zblaesi Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Waitlisted at UW-M. I would be happy to study under Shafer-Landau (while probably trying to show that moral realism is incorrect). Quant_Liz_Lemon, TheVineyard, philstudent1991 and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilbert's timequake Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Waitlisted at USC, Arizona and UT Austin. Wonder the chance of getting off those lists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platonist Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Congratulations to zblaesi and Hilbert's timequake. Edited February 25, 2014 by Platonist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattDest Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Waitlisted at Wisconsin, I'll be turning it down soon. Congrats to those on the list and good luck! humean_skeptic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVineyard Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Waitlisted at Wisconsin. Live possibility for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar_scene_gambler Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yay! Waitlisted at GSU. I shouldn't be so excited about a waitlist, but I can't help it. AcademicX 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottagecheeseman Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Yay! Waitlisted at GSU. I shouldn't be so excited about a waitlist, but I can't help it. I know the exact same feeling when I was waitlisted at UVA! Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Structural_Realist Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Waitlisted at UW-Madison. Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectivityofcontradiction Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Would any one like to venture a guess as to how confident/worried one should be if they are informed they are on a wait-list, but not told that they are near the top of said list? This is the situation I am in with two schools, both of which I'd love to attend, but I am not sure what the chances are that I''ll make it off the WL. In my mind, a reasonable estimate for the number of students on a 'short wait-list,' which is what most schools seem to keep, would be in the 8-12 range, or even smaller. But, then again, we can see from the results page that wait-list numbers at various schools are high, even though all of us that are 'waiting' are told the lists are short........ Oh the stress.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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