what would you do if you found out your colleague attempted suicide?

[Quantum Buckyball]

The school's counseling center / mental health support system is not just for people directly suffering from depression, anxiety and other mental health disorders. At least at my school, they also are there to support those who work with and/or may be affected by people such as Person A as well.

 

In my opinion, I think if you want to do anything further to help Person A, you should definitely go talk to the counseling center and seek their expert advice. Even if you two are not friends and given your history, it's not realistic that you will be this person's support system, it still sounds like you are not sure what to do next and also you might be in a unsafe or uncomfortable situation. Since you are asking for help/advice, I would recommend that you talk to the experts at your school who are probably much better equipped to help you determine what to do next than us random people on the internet!

 

Edit: To clarify, I am saying that if you want to talk to anyone at all about this, either because you are concerned for Person A or because you are concerned for yourself, I think the best people to talk to are your campus counseling center / mental health support center. If you want to stay out of it completely, that is probably fine too since it sounds like they have already started talking to the mental health center. My suggestion to go to the health center is not to "report" Person A, but to get help for yourself if you are concerned about what to do next. Their answer might be nothing at all, but my point is that if anyone knows, it would be them!

 

I checked out the center's website the other day and it seems like they have a link where I can submit a ticket anonymously, and I have told my PI that I didn't feel comfortable to be around Person A late at night in the lab due to previous encounters. I don't need this kind of stress, research is stressful enough. 

[Quantum Buckyball]

Then there's nothing for you to do. The person is actively under the care of mental health personnel. Unless there is a direct threat to you or someone else, there's no one for you to report it to. 

 

If there was a direct threat to me, which have already happened before (three times), what would be the best way to handle it? call the cops?

[St Andrews Lynx]

Person A being suicidal and Person A threatening you are two separate issues. 

 

First, I would talk to the university's mental health center. There are probably policies in place to handle this sort of situation and it might be more useful to talk to them than the police. The police are who you talk to if you want to get a restraining order or if Person A is waving a knife in your face. 

[TakeruK]

I checked out the center's website the other day and it seems like they have a link where I can submit a ticket anonymously, and I have told my PI that I didn't feel comfortable to be around Person A late at night in the lab due to previous encounters. I don't need this kind of stress, research is stressful enough. 

 

What do you mean by submitting a ticket anonymously? Again, the purpose of all of us suggesting the mental health center is not to report Person A and it is not to simply let them know about Person A (as you said, they already do). 

 

I suggested seeing the mental health center for you to get personal advice on how to "handle stuff like this". So if submitting an anonymous ticket means you can get anonymous online help (perhaps through a chat app or anonymous email), or if that is how you set up an appointment to come in person to speak with an expert then that's great.

 

Otherwise, I think if you feel that you need help with the stress and/or the situation, the best course of action is to go to mental health / counseling services yourself. Remember that the experts there do not solely help people with disorders, they also help people who work with people with disorders. At my school, 20% of the entire student population has been to the mental health center at least once. They are there to be a resource for students in situations such as yours!

 

---

 

And if there is a direct threat to you, you should follow emergency procedures on your campus. This might mean calling 911 but at most schools, we are supposed to call Campus Security instead. They can contact the police for you and also lead the authorities to your location (as telling the 911 dispatcher you are in Building X of Campus Y might not be very helpful to them). 

Edited June 17, 2014 by TakeruK

[DerpTastic]

Are you more worried that Person A will do something to hurt himself/herself or someone else? You mention both, but it's unclear which you are really worried about. If it is the first, I don't think there is much you can do. They are already seeking help and have apparently started medication. It doesn't seem like Person A is in denial about his/her issues.

 

If you're worried about someone suicidal being dangerous, I wouldn't connect the two that closely. Just because a person wants to hurt him/herself generally doesn't mean he/she wants to hurt others. 

 

I know you said you have other reasons, but that one in particular can be something many people assume.

[Amelorn]

This person is in their own private hell.  Emphasis on "hell".  Person A's illness may prove to be "terminal" mental illness.

 

This person is under the care of mental health professionals.  Since you are uncomfortable around this person (not unreasonably), talk with your PI about trying to keep as much distance between yourself and Person A as possible.  

[Quantum Buckyball]

Person A got into a huge argument with one of the grad students in our lab today, it was bad, bad enough that another grad student had to step in and tell the Person A to back off in an unfriendly tone .

 

In addition, I definitely noticed there were a lot of verbal "clashes" between Person A with two undergrads and another grad student today during group meeting, I felt like I was watching a drama TV show LIVE.   

[St Andrews Lynx]

...If I'd recently attempted suicide and was put on antidepressants/entered into therapy, I think some of my inter-personal skills would get kinda icky, too.

 

Most of your posts seem to follow the logic: "Person A is an asshole...and now they're acting suicidal."

I think the more logical way to look at it is: "Person A has a lot of mental health issues...which makes their behaviour seem assholish."

[fuzzylogician]

...If I'd recently attempted suicide and was put on antidepressants/entered into therapy, I think some of my inter-personal skills would get kinda icky, too.

 

Most of your posts seem to follow the logic: "Person A is an asshole...and now they're acting suicidal."

I think the more logical way to look at it is: "Person A has a lot of mental health issues...which makes their behaviour seem assholish."

 

^ I agree with this. Regardless, though, I think it's clear now that your PI must be aware of the situation. Therefore, I think the wisest thing to do is to stay away from Person A, but be sure to know what resources you have available to you in case you actually feel threatened by Person A. (Though, as others have mentioned, just because they have mental health issues does not entail that they are violent. But it doesn't hurt to know these things.)

[Quantum Buckyball]

^ I agree with this. Regardless, though, I think it's clear now that your PI must be aware of the situation. Therefore, I think the wisest thing to do is to stay away from Person A, but be sure to know what resources you have available to you in case you actually feel threatened by Person A. (Though, as others have mentioned, just because they have mental health issues does not entail that they are violent. But it doesn't hurt to know these things.)

 

you're right, I think my PI might be fed up with Person A soon because Person A was asking me a lot of random questions during my research presentation and most of my coworkers look very annoyed...

[Scarf in the wind]

I would talk to the person, and try to help them out. But, that's just who I am.

[spectastic]

nevermind. I would just stay out of it. this fellow sounds like a lot of baggage

Edited June 19, 2014 by spectastic

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Buy him a shawarma and talk about your feelings. Or go halves on a shawarma. 

[Sigaba]

Buy him a shawarma and talk about your feelings. Or go halves on a shawarma. 

 

Gnome, this thread is on a serious topic.  

 

I think it is time for you to stop thinking/acting/behaving like an undergraduate and to stop treating this BB like it is a club house. I think it is time for you to turn up your situational awareness and know when it is time to dial down the snark. As a graduate student, you're going to be evaluated by a different set of standards than what you've encountered thus far. In graduate school, you will find that there's a stark difference between being liked and being respected. At present, you seem disinterested in the latter and I think that's a mistake you need to correct right away.

 

Your classmates and your professors are going to make judgements about you.  Those POVs are going to inform how they support you (or not). I think that you probably are intelligent and resourceful enough to overcome the unfavorable judgements of the former. However, professors do play favorites and they tend to do so subtly. That is, in the event you rub a fellow graduate student the wrong way, you'll know it but if you rub a professor the wrong way, you won't. For example, a professor can offer unfavorable remarks about you in a departmental meeting, tell other graduate students that you're bad news, write "coded" evaluations and recommendations that say one thing but really mean another or find ways to damn you by praising others.

 

In the event you encounter a graduate student who is troubled and/or disruptive, you may be judged by your comportment and your conduct. That is, if you're glib and snarky, professors may laugh along with you while concluding that you're not someone on whom they can count. Conversely, if you treat serious subjects in an appropriate manner, you may generate trust and inspire a higher level of confidence in one or more professors who then decide to mentor you.

 

My $0.02/NRN

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

Gnome, this thread is on a serious topic.

I think it is time for you to stop thinking/acting/behaving like an undergraduate and to stop treating this BB like it is a club house. I think it is time for you to turn up your situational awareness and know when it is time to dial down the snark. As a graduate student, you're going to be evaluated by a different set of standards than what you've encountered thus far. In graduate school, you will find that there's a stark difference between being liked and being respected. At present, you seem disinterested in the latter and I think that's a mistake you need to correct right away.

Your classmates and your professors are going to make judgements about you. Those POVs are going to inform how they support you (or not). I think that you probably are intelligent and resourceful enough to overcome the unfavorable judgements of the former. However, professors do play favorites and they tend to do so subtly. That is, in the event you rub a fellow graduate student the wrong way, you'll know it but if you rub a professor the wrong way, you won't. For example, a professor can offer unfavorable remarks about you in a departmental meeting, tell other graduate students that you're bad news, write "coded" evaluations and recommendations that say one thing but really mean another or find ways to damn you by praising others.

In the event you encounter a graduate student who is troubled and/or disruptive, you may be judged by your comportment and your conduct. That is, if you're glib and snarky, professors may laugh along with you while concluding that you're not someone on whom they can count. Conversely, if you treat serious subjects in an appropriate manner, you may generate trust and inspire a higher level of confidence in one or more professors who then decide to mentor you.

My $0.02/NRN

You seem to have it all figured out. Edited June 19, 2014 by Gnome Chomsky

[fuzzylogician]

You seem to have it all figured out.

 

You know, I think Sigaba is not alone here. I am saying this is a regular poster here and not as a moderator; your replies signal that something is not right--I like the way Sigaba put it, maybe it's a lack of situational awareness or a lack of a desire to be respected. Someone came here with a serious question about how to deal with someone suicidal and possibly violent in their lab. I can't think of many things that are more serious than that. You took this as an opportunity to banter and make fun of the OP, more than once in this thread alone. Other times you have used crude language and made jokes that might be common in the 8th grade but should not be on a forum that is dedicated to grad school life. You've got to know that what you wrote here is not helpful to the OP. This time you were not successful in derailing the thread (yet, maybe it's happening now), but sometimes you are. I just find it very upsetting as someone who's been posting here for several years and has stuck around because I feel that sometimes what I say can help others. I feel like your distractions counteract this overall good that the community has to offer by alienating people, discouraging them from asking serious questions, and making it harder to find useful answers among the banter and useless posts. You may think you're funny and entertaining, and maybe you are, but I assure you that others see you in a less positive light. There is a time and a place for everything and you seem to not know what that is. 

[spectastic]

to be fair, it was never established if Person A was really mentally ill, or just a pain in the rear who got knocked off the high horse.

[fuzzylogician]

to be fair, it was never established if Person A was really mentally ill, or just a pain in the rear who got knocked off the high horse.

 

If you were actually concerned about that, you could bring it up and we could have a discussion about how to identify someone who is in a fragile mental state or how not to misclassify someone in this way. I don't think anyone would object to a reply whose content is basically "I think you are misinterpreting the situation," with some explanation of why you think that. Are you doubting that the OP was serious, or are you saying that this lack of "established" evidence is in your eyes an invitation to derail the thread? You know, sometimes it's ok not to have an opinion about something or not to participate in a discussion if you have nothing useful to contribute.

[spectastic]

yes I was being facetious, probably not the most appropriate response. but honestly how much more usefulness do you expect to generate from this discussion 

[Guest Gnome Chomsky]

I guess nobody cares that the OP said everyone in his/her office was acting like Person A didn't exist while Person A is basically on suicide watch. I guess that's acceptable for academics. I don't take most of the ridiculous stuff I read on this site that seriously because I've lived in the real world. You don't systematically alienate someone on suicide watch. If you had any balls (sorry feminists), common sense and social skills, you'd make an attempt to talk to Person A. I've been around suicidal people before. I did it. Lots of times they just want someone to talk to. One of my bunk mates in basic training was on suicide watch and me and the guys would take him around and be social with him. People post the most ridiculous stuff on here and everyone acts like it isn't ridiculous. In another thread, someone was asking why someone would hold onto their high school diploma if jobs don't ever ask you for it. Same reason why people walk during graduation even though it isn't a requirement. This shit is not rocket science. Sadly, some of you are rocket scientists. 

[fuzzylogician]

I don't take most of the ridiculous stuff I read on this site that seriously because I've lived in the real world. 

 

I've read you say that so many times. Due respect, you don't know what other people's situations are like. Not everybody likes to share intimate details of their lives, but that doesn't mean they don't have a valid point of view. There is a life beyond just you and your experiences, but you seem completely unable to accommodate that. It's surprising to me; since you often like to remind the community that you've had more than your fair share of "real life" experience, is it so hard to imagine that some others may have less experience and therefore may ask questions about things that you find obvious or trivial, or make decisions that you think are clearly wrong? I'm sorry, personally I just find overt disdain for others' questions off-putting. There are ways to tell someone that they are asking the wrong questions or are seriously misguided and there is no need to ridicule anyone, even if you're completely definitely absolutely sure you're right and they're wrong. You may know a lot, but you really don't know it all.  

 

(And you'll notice that I purposefully ignored the "but there is another thread that's really a joke" because that's distracting from my point about this thread.)

[RunnerGrad]

Coming in late to the discussion.

 

It isn't good to feel uncomfortable or unsafe in the lab, but if the person is struggling with depression, a lot of their behaviour is likely due to that fact.  Further isolating the individual isn't likely to help them.  I'm not a mental health professional, however, and I'm not in OP's shoes.  I have, however, had friends struggling with depression or with other mental illnesses (eating disorders), and they tend to need patience and understanding, not isolation and shunning.

[seeingeyeduck]

I just wanted to clarify - has this person actually verbally threatened people? And with what?

If it's violence, then I'm all for being understanding of someone's depression but that doesn't sound like simply depression. Someone of authority needs to make it clear to them that threats are not acceptable, mental health issues or no. If they are simply depressed, I would suggest being patient and trying not to judge but if they threatening to hurt themselves or others then it is time to engage the mental health system at the university because that is more than anyone in the lab can handle. I know for a fact that at the larger universities there is a way for staff to report alarming behavior.

If it's not at that level of threatening, I would just try to stay out of it. Unless you know what is going on in their head or are close to them, whatever you say may be taken the wrong way. Don't judge but don't let them get away with not doing work either. Depression is hard but not an excuse to act badly or screw up others' work.