What is normal in the US?

[courrier]

Hi,

 

I am an art history undergrad in Japan. I have a simple question on a very general topic regarding graduate application:

Do many undergrad students in the US go to the graduate level of the same school? Or do they go to different school?

 

In Japan, many undergrads usually go to the graduate level in the same school, thus knowing the adviser very well before admittance.

I'm just curious.

 

Any comments appreciated!

Thanks,

[GeoDUDE!]

It is normal to go to different schools.

[hj2012]

Seconded what geodude said. Not only is it normal for folks to go to different universities, but there is some bias toward students who do undergrad and postgrad at the same university. Just FYI.

[seeingeyeduck]

I've heard that too, but why is it that there is this bias? What's the basis of it?

[Munashi]

People do it both ways in the US, but as Geodude said, it is more common to go to different schools for undergrad and graduate work.

[maelia8]

It's uncommon to go to the same school, partly because many liberal arts colleges only have undergrad or very limited grad offerings. Often a student literally has to go to another school if they want to pursue a graduate degree at all, and not all schools with grad programs have them for all majors, further necessitating frequent switches.

[gingin6789]

I would have gladly applied for grad school at my undergrad institution, but there were no grad programs in either of my fields (sociology and philosophy).

 

However, a good portion of my grad student cohort actually attended the same institution as undergrads.   

[GeoDUDE!]

Seconded what geodude said. Not only is it normal for folks to go to different universities, but there is some bias toward students who do undergrad and postgrad at the same university. Just FYI.

 

 

I'm not really sure that exists. I havent seen any evidence of it, especially if you go to a top teir school for your undergrad.

[spunky]

I've heard that too, but why is it that there is this bias? What's the basis of it?

 

 

the reasoning i've heard behind this is that if as a student you don't switch schools for graduate school, you're just exposed to the culture of one school and one program. so, for the sake of diversity, you should try and look for a different school.

 

i personally don't see anything wrong with staying in the same school you started as an undergrad but i've also heard that it's 'desirable' for an undergraduate student to switch schools when they pursue graduate school. maybe to get some extra life experience? who knows.. 

[Between Fields]

At the program I'm going to, about half of the PhD students have an MA from the same place they got their BA, myself included. It's pretty rare to go all the way from undergrad through your doctoral work at one place, though.

[hj2012]

I'm not really sure that exists. I havent seen any evidence of it, especially if you go to a top teir school for your undergrad.

 

Agreed -- if you go to a top tier school for your undergrad. But the majority of us who do not come out of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc or other traditionally "top tier" schools. I was specifically steered away from applying to my undergrad institution (a top public school, FWIW) for grad school, because "academic incest."  I think it's good to be aware that this can be a real attitude among some of the older generation of academics. 

Edited July 10, 2014 by hj2012

[bakalamba]

I think in this country there is a big focus on new experiences and networking on a larger scale, which causes the difference between undergrad and grad institutions, and possibly a bias. In my experience, faculty will generally recommend other institutions for graduate study than their own to their undergrads, or even Masters students. I think we have a culture that sees 4 years at one school as enough time to take everything in, and as a preparation for the next institution. And there's also a high level of competition for graduate admissions, which may cause applicants to "trade up" their institutions for somewhere on a higher tier.

 

Certainly there's nothing wrong with doing grad at your undergrad school, and there's certainly advantages: you are well versed in the institution already, and have a chance to form long term and meaningful relationships with faculty. And you'll probably be paying in-state tuition, if that's the case. But there's certainly a culture that prescribes the opposite. Really interesting to see the difference between Japan and USA in this regard.

[seeingeyeduck]

But then what if you're already at a top tier school? Is that the exception?

[bakalamba]

But then what if you're already at a top tier school? Is that the exception?

 

I don't think there are really exceptions here. Just because there's a culture against attending the same school for grad doesn't mean it's a good or bad choice - it depends on the institution and the program. I think "trading up" for a higher tier institution without paying attention to the program, the research fit, or the faculty is a big mistake, in the same way that assuming that your top tier undergrad institution is also the best place to study grad (it may be, but it's not a given).

 

In other words, the "Should I go to another school for grad or stay here?" is only one factor among many that should be taken into consideration, and, imo, certainly not the most important one.

Edited July 11, 2014 by bakalamba

[raneck]

Academic incest is a slightly overblown worry (on the student's end at least). In my experience, the bias against academic incest exists both on the application committee and the post-phd job search, i.e. the grad program at your undergrad school simply won't admit you.  Why would they admit a student that would be have difficulty succeeding after the program?

[RedPill]

It's suggested* to attend a different school from your undergrad. Whether that's the norm? I'm not sure. Would be an interesting study.

 

Maybe everyone is unemployed because they went to the same school as their undergrad

[spectastic]

my alma mater doesn't even take iits own chem eng undergrads for phd

 

 

I was told that the driver is to improve the diversity of its alumni, so therefore the potential network of the department - makes sense to me.

Edited July 14, 2014 by spectastic

[tomkat0789]

My alma mater would take some of its own students if they really wanted to stay or had trouble finding other spots. People were generally encouraged to go other places to get a different interpretation of the field.

[Usmivka]

... because "academic incest."  I think it's good to be aware that this can be a real attitude among some of the older generation of academics. 

Read, "pre-internet profs." I don't think I've met more than a handful fo academics under 50 that say these sorts of things with any conviction. It makes sense to physically travel to somewhere with different people and ideas in a world without rapid transportation and communication, but at a time when we can have committee members half-way around the world by virtue of teleconferencing the rationale breaks down. That said, a lot of admissions committees are made up of senior faculty that haven't necessarily acculturated to this shift.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Usmivka

[spectastic]

My alma mater would take some of its own students if they really wanted to stay or had trouble finding other spots. People were generally encouraged to go other places to get a different interpretation of the field.

yea there were exceptions, but rare.

 

which school

[I am not sure yet]

In my country, it's not a big deal to continue on the same school. I myself did my undergrad and masters at the same place, even the same advisor. But I wouldn't go for a PhD there, even if they had it. I think I've learned enough with my advisor and a different school would be much more productive. 

[TonyB]

I've heard there's a bias against doing everything at the same school, but I've also heard that that's largely a myth. For what it's worth, I know one young lady who is gainfully employed at the local community college (in an administrative role, and has been there for 7 or 8 years) -- she did both her undergrad and grad degrees at Ball State University in Indiana. Most of the people I've spoken to, however, at least did their undergrad and grad work at separate schools, and at least one guy got his bachelor's at Wright State University (Ohio), master's at University of Maine, and his PhD at a school in Salt Lake City. So make of that what you will.

 

Personally, the (perception that there's a ) bias seems to be widespread enough that I'd be reluctant to get my master's at the same school.