Writing a Letter of Recommendation for myself

[tomkat0789]

Hey everybody!

 

I've been gearing up for my first conference this fall, and my adviser asked me to apply for a travel grant. For the application, the adviser is supposed to nominate the student and submit a letter of recommendation for the student.

 

I sent him the stuff he needed (resume, presentation abstract), but in response he asked me to prepare a draft of the recommendation letter. Has anybody had to write a letter of recommendation for themselves before? What's the general structure of the letter and what do you talk about?

[GeoDUDE!]

I hope he is a better advisor in other facets of your degree, because, this is a major red flag. 

 

here is some good advice: http://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/16529/is-it-acceptable-to-write-a-reference-letter-for-yourself

Edited July 14, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[tomkat0789]

He's good, but he is solidly in the "hands-off" side of the spectrum in managing his students. I like the freedom, even if it means I have to do stuff like this occasionally. There's another professor in our department who gives his students a detailed list of tasks at the beginning of every day.

 

Thanks for the link!

[GeoDUDE!]

He's good, but he is solidly in the "hands-off" side of the spectrum in managing his students. I like the freedom, even if it means I have to do stuff like this occasionally. There's another professor in our department who gives his students a detailed list of tasks at the beginning of every day.

 

Thanks for the link!

 

Stuff like that is considered academic dishonesty though.

[Between Fields]

Stuff like that is considered academic dishonesty though.

 

Not really. It's certainly a professional grey area, but not an academic one, especially since he's only asking for a draft. Presumably, he'll read it and tweak it before signing it.

[GeoDUDE!]

Not really. It's certainly a professional grey area, but not an academic one, especially since he's only asking for a draft. Presumably, he'll read it and tweak it before signing it.

 

That is not what academics think at all: I would never want to work someone who asked me to do something like that.

 

from Peter L Clark, professor of mathematics at University of Georgia:

 

 

Is it acceptable to write most of the reference letter and have the prof make minor edits?

 

"No, this is a form of plagiarism and academic fraud. What you pass off as your written word must actually be yours except where you explicitly document to the contrary."

 

Furthermore, it bothers me that you think that  this is not wrong is a huge problem, one you should think about when you are publishing or perhaps even writing recommendations for people in the future. I certainly, would not want to associate myself with anyone who does something like this, even if it is widely spread. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[dr. t]

Cherry-picked voices of dissent aside, this is a fairly common practice in many fields. Professorial time is at a premium, and while I wouldn't endorse the practice outright - it will almost certainly result in a lower-quality letter - I don't see any reason to get hysterical about it. 

 

With respect to the question at hand, I suspect one of the reasons the professor asked the student to write it is because a travel grant isn't exactly a high-stakes endeavor, and a fairly standard letter will do just fine. Just hit the high notes - why this is important, why you're qualified - and the letter should be fine.

 

On the other hand, if you know your adviser tells his students to write their own letters when they're on the job market...

Edited July 15, 2014 by telkanuru

[GeoDUDE!]

Just because something is commonplace does not mean it is ETHICAL. Cheating, lying and stealing happens all the time, does not mean we should do it. If the advisor asked him to apply for travel grants, and is unwilling to write the letter for the required grant, that is just wrong. Furthermore, this isn't a cherry picked opinion. I'd advise you to read the opinions of the stack exchange question. Furthermore, look at who writes the answers: almost all the people who are against this practice are professors. Many of them tenured at top universities in their field. This is a big deal, tread lightly.

 

You wont endorse it, but you certainly are by telling him to do it. If my advisor asked me to do this, I would not apply for the grant. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[Gvh]

Cherry-picked voices of dissent aside, this is a fairly common practice in many fields. Professorial time is at a premium, and while I wouldn't endorse the practice outright - it will almost certainly result in a lower-quality letter - I don't see any reason to get hysterical about it. 

 

With respect to the question at hand, I suspect one of the reasons the professor asked the student to write it is because a travel grant isn't exactly a high-stakes endeavor, and a fairly standard letter will do just fine. Just hit the high notes - why this is important, why you're qualified - and the letter should be fine.

 

On the other hand, if you know your adviser tells his students to write their own letters when they're on the job market...

 

Agreed - from my experience, a lot of people in academia are asked to draft their own letters, and I have heard this confirmed from a number of high-profile profs on 2 continents. This is not just potential grad students but also post-docs applying for their own grants for the first time, professors requiring endorsement for promotion, etc. I also don't necessarily agree that it is "academic plagiarism" - academics are busy people, and often don't have time to study someone's resume/accomplishments and draft a letter from scratch. AS LONG AS the professor looks at it, adds the necessary tweaks, and approves it, I don't see why it is such a bad thing. It's a win-win: the referee gets to prioritize what they want in the letter, and the professor saves (probably) much-needed time. 

[GeoDUDE!]

Agreed - from my experience, a lot of people in academia are asked to draft their own letters, and I have heard this confirmed from a number of high-profile profs on 2 continents. This is not just potential grad students but also post-docs applying for their own grants for the first time, professors requiring endorsement for promotion, etc. I also don't necessarily agree that it is "academic plagiarism" - academics are busy people, and often don't have time to study someone's resume/accomplishments and draft a letter from scratch. AS LONG AS the professor looks at it, adds the necessary tweaks, and approves it, I don't see why it is such a bad thing. It's a win-win: the referee gets to prioritize what they want in the letter, and the professor saves (probably) much-needed time. 

 

Because it expected that it the words written in the letter come from the recommender, unless stated otherwise. Agreeing with the sentiment, making some edits, and shipping it off as your own work is CLEARLY a form of plagiarism.  Even when you paraphrase someone else's ideas, you are supposed to give credit. Unless the letter says "this recommendation letter was written by the student, but as the recommender I full heartily agree with it", then I call foul play. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[Gvh]

Because it expected that it the words written in the letter come from the recommender, unless stated otherwise. Agreeing with the sentiment, making some edits, and shipping it off as your own work is CLEARLY a form of plagiarism.  Even when you paraphrase someone else's ideas, you are supposed to give credit. Unless the letter says "this recommendation letter was written by the student, but as the recommender I full heartily agree with it", then I call foul play. 

 

Well, fair enough; though bear in mind there is a high likelihood that you will be writing your own letter -- at one point or another -- if you chose to stay in academia. 

[dr. t]

Just because something is commonplace does not mean it is ETHICAL. Cheating, lying and stealing happens all the time, does not mean we should do it. If the advisor asked him to apply for travel grants, and is unwilling to write the letter for the required grant, that is just wrong. Furthermore, this isn't a cherry picked opinion. I'd advise you to read the opinions of the stack exchange question. Furthermore, look at who writes the answers: almost all the people who are against this practice are professors. Many of them tenured at top universities in their field. This is a big deal, tread lightly.

 

You wont endorse it, but you certainly are by telling him to do it. If my advisor asked me to do this, I would not apply for the grant. 

 

Can we stop with the histrionics? Writing a letter for an internal grant is a minor piece of clerical work, not a publication.

[GeoDUDE!]

Guess we shouldn't try and be honest in all of our work. 

[bsharpe269]

This would make me uncomfortable too. I wouldnt be surprised if people look for these things in applications even. If an application includes an SOP/cover letter along with the LOR then I think it would be pretty obvious that the writing style and word choices are identical.

[reinhard]

I did it and now I am in grad school. He even sent the wrong letter to the wrong school too. He was supposed to send a letter for my funding and he used that same letter for my grad admission. They are very different letters and I still got in lol

[rachelann1991]

For me, this DOES NOT SIT WELL. I think about myself as a future professor: I would NEVER ask my student to write a letter for me, under ANY circumstances. Maybe this is because I came from a small liberal arts college, where my professors care deeply about teaching and their students (one of them is actually my best friend, and I mean that in the sincerest form), but I deeply appreciated the time and care my professors put into my recommendation letters; in fact, one program actually told me my letters got me in. My three letter writers took the time and care to write a letter based on what THEY thought about me as a future scholar, and I can't wait to help a future student out in the same way; in fact, that's a big part of WHY I want to be a professor: so I can be there for students.

 

Maybe it's not "academically dishonest" by official standards, maybe it is, but I still find it disgusting, and I would refuse to work with any professor who asked me to write a letter for myself, and I REFUSE to become a professor like that. 

[bhr]

Oh for goodness sake. This isn't disgusting, or plagiarism, or anything else. I did this as an employer in the past. You ask people to write their own reviews, LoRs, job descriptions, not because you are lazy, but because you want to see how the person sees their own roles/work/potential. I can guarantee that a professor who asks a student to write this letter doesn't just sign the bottom and send it off, but uses it as a base for what they write.

 

This isn't much different than my professors who asked for my CV and SoP before writing letters for me. They wanted to know how I saw my own skills, and how I wanted to represent myself to the adcom, and tailored their letters to match.

[reinhard]

Oh for goodness sake. This isn't disgusting, or plagiarism, or anything else. I did this as an employer in the past. You ask people to write their own reviews, LoRs, job descriptions, not because you are lazy, but because you want to see how the person sees their own roles/work/potential. I can guarantee that a professor who asks a student to write this letter doesn't just sign the bottom and send it off, but uses it as a base for what they write.

 

This isn't much different than my professors who asked for my CV and SoP before writing letters for me. They wanted to know how I saw my own skills, and how I wanted to represent myself to the adcom, and tailored their letters to match.

For my professor, he literally changed two sentences in the letter.

[rachelann1991]

I agree a definite distinction needs to be made: sending a professor a CV or, what I did for my favorite professor, a list of every paper I produced for her for each of the three classes I took with her, helps a faculty member have everything at their fingertips. I suppose a very loose draft of a letter could produce the same affect as the documents I gave to my recommender. However, let's distinguish between a professor using a draft as a springboard for his or her OWN letter versus, as the above poster mentioned, changing a sentence or two and sending it off as written by the student.

[dr. t]

I agree a definite distinction needs to be made: sending a professor a CV or, what I did for my favorite professor, a list of every paper I produced for her for each of the three classes I took with her, helps a faculty member have everything at their fingertips. I suppose a very loose draft of a letter could produce the same affect as the documents I gave to my recommender. However, let's distinguish between a professor using a draft as a springboard for his or her OWN letter versus, as the above poster mentioned, changing a sentence or two and sending it off as written by the student.

 

No, I don't think we have to do that. Once again, this is a letter for an internal grant. Specifically, it is a type of grant which is usually not very competitive and frequently approved very quickly. The letter in this case is essentially a formal professorial nil obstat for the application. A professor's time is limited, and having the graduate student draft up a a letter for him or her to check is a perfectly legitimate way to save time.Similarly, if I need a formal letter of introduction to do work at, say, the Bibliothèque Nationale (a real-life example for me), I will draft the appropriate letter which my adviser will then sign. 

 

If the professor decides this is also a perfectly valid way to send letters of recommendation to job search committees or external grant applications, then that is a significant problem. However, the issue still isn't "plagiarism" or similar nonsense, but rather an adviser who clearly does not care very much about his or her students' success.

Edited July 20, 2014 by telkanuru

[GeoDUDE!]

I am shocked to see that there are academics that think plagiarism is "nonsense" .

Edited July 20, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[dr. t]

I am shocked to see that there are academics that think plagiarism is "nonsense" .

 

Oh you clever scallywag. Truly, you have entrapped me in a web of words. 

[bhr]

I am shocked to see that there are academics that think plagiarism is "nonsense" .

No, we are shocked that someone would be so ridiculous as to call this plagiarism. There's no dishonesty here.

[mandarin.orange]

In a similar vein, how do y'all feel about this scenario -- plagiarism, or no?

1. Student who's been volunteering time in lab helping my analyses, or done research credits, wants letter of rec.

2. I ask for whatever cover letter/statement they're writing for he app, and latest CV. I suss out from student if it's internal thing that I can personally sign and rec will still have weight, or if it's something that should have PI's name (e.g. external internships, grad school app, REU, etc.)

3. I write the letter, which is pretty kickass with use of superlatives and referencing specific work ethic and specific accomplishments in lab, as well as highlighting other qualifications apparent on the CV.

4. If letter carries more weight to be from PI, I reformat onto univ letterhead and put all PI's contact info. I give to him to sign and submit, often following up with reminders (or, telling student to check in with him.)

This has gotten to be pretty s. o p. in our lab. He's not around lab enough to know these students well, so the combo of specific letter + prominent professor in field's signature, optimizes the chances for the student.

[Gvh]

^^ These are realities of academia, not plagiarism.