Dating non-graduate students

[wildviolet]

I'm currently dating a local professional who is not a graduate student at my university!

 

He's a little older than me and originally from a foreign country, although he's been here for more than a decade. Not sure how much these characteristics may factor into my situation...

 

He knows I'm in graduate school for a PhD but doesn't really ask about it. And I guess that's a blessing! But, I kind of want to talk about my life's work. He's in a profession where I don't think you could get too passionate about it--he probably never brings work home or has to think about it after he leaves work. But I'm pretty much constantly thinking about my dissertation, even if it's unconscious (you know those moments when you suddenly have eureka moments in the shower or upon waking?).

 

So my question is: what is your experience and opinions about this? I'm not exactly bothered by it, but... on the other hand, I feel like a big part of who I am is what I do and choose to study in graduate school.

 

If it helps, we are in the early stages of dating and getting to know one another. I've asked him whether he enjoys his "work" (not "job"), and he says he does, although he's been at his present company for a while and is considering moving to a different location to spice it up.

 

Thanks!

Edited March 3, 2015 by wildviolet

[iphi]

Talk to him about it. Tell him exactly what you just told us here!

[fuzzylogician]

I don't think I could have dated someone in grad school who didn't ask me about school and what I do. I mean, it's what I *do*. It's where I spent most of my waking hours, what I'm hoping to do as a career. If a guy doesn't want to know about that, he is ignoring a very important aspect of me. I'd bring it up. If he didn't ask for whatever reasonable reason but is interested once you tell him it's important to you, then no problem. Otherwise, I'd be very concerned. It's already complicated to be with someone who doesn't really get it. I don't think I could be with someone who didn't care.

[St Andrews Lynx]

Next time you meet and he asks "How are you?", give him a short anecdote from your grad school day as part of your reply ("Oh, I was busy editing the final draft of my manuscript for publication for most of today"). Them give him space to ask a follow-up question. 

 

And of course, show interest in his professional life - ask him what is it you do, how did you get into this career, what other jobs have you done in the past, etc. People usually match interest with interest, in a conversation. 

[rising_star]

I talked about grad school like I'd talk about a job when I was dating a non-grad student. Ironically, in the final part of my PhD when I was dating another grad student, I talked about grad school a lot less. Not sure how to explain that other than perhaps dating someone that's in a completely different field whose work I don't understand toward the end of my PhD. But, I also think it's unreasonable to date anyone and expect them to be super-interested in the minutiae of my job, whether that's grad school or something else.

 

Congrats on finding someone to date, wildviolet! I guess this means we can ignore your online dating post?

[shadowclaw]

I'm married to someone who didn't go to college at all. He joined the marines right out of high school, and I met him shortly after he finished. He does take somewhat of an interest in what I do. He asks me about what I'm doing in class, and when I was collecting data for my thesis, he regularly asked about what field sites I visited and what birds I saw. Generally speaking, though, if I go into much detail his eyes start to glaze over. He's really not into biology.

 

We talk about his job, too, which honestly isn't too exciting to me. He does tell me some funny stories, though. The bottom line is that we do talk about each other's work, though not in too much detail. I don't see any reason that graduate students should only date other graduate students (or even anyone involved in academia). I do agree, though, once you establish that you want to talk about your work, he should be willing to talk to you about it. If not, well I don't know then. It's up to you to decide.

[1Q84]

I've been with a non-graduate student for a number of years now. I find it comforting to sometimes come home and be out of academia. I also like getting advice from a non-academia mindset whenever I'm feeling a little myopic in my own view. I also like to hear about his industry (design/tech startup/advertising) to widen my own perspective about "the real world." I feel like generally it's a good balance.

 

In general, if I start telling him stuff about cultural theory or something, usually we'll debate and argue so I don't tend to do it too often unless I'm feeling feisty. 

[wildviolet]

I talked about grad school like I'd talk about a job when I was dating a non-grad student. Ironically, in the final part of my PhD when I was dating another grad student, I talked about grad school a lot less. Not sure how to explain that other than perhaps dating someone that's in a completely different field whose work I don't understand toward the end of my PhD. But, I also think it's unreasonable to date anyone and expect them to be super-interested in the minutiae of my job, whether that's grad school or something else.

 

Congrats on finding someone to date, wildviolet! I guess this means we can ignore your online dating post?

 

LOL, yes, I suppose we can now ignore that post (although I did have a 21-year-old junior at the university email me--I told him that he seemed like a "good kid" and "good luck" on his studies!).

[wildviolet]

I'm married to someone who didn't go to college at all. He joined the marines right out of high school, and I met him shortly after he finished. He does take somewhat of an interest in what I do. He asks me about what I'm doing in class, and when I was collecting data for my thesis, he regularly asked about what field sites I visited and what birds I saw. Generally speaking, though, if I go into much detail his eyes start to glaze over. He's really not into biology.

 

We talk about his job, too, which honestly isn't too exciting to me. He does tell me some funny stories, though. The bottom line is that we do talk about each other's work, though not in too much detail. I don't see any reason that graduate students should only date other graduate students (or even anyone involved in academia). I do agree, though, once you establish that you want to talk about your work, he should be willing to talk to you about it. If not, well I don't know then. It's up to you to decide.

 

Maybe that's a good way to go...he's in accounting. I'm in science education research. Not much overlap!

[wildviolet]

Thanks, everyone! I will try some of these strategies... I think it would be nice for him to have some understanding of my daily intellectual work life.

[Cheshire_Cat]

As someone in accounting now who dated a grad student... accounting is boring.  There really isn't much to say about it.  And when there is then we shouldn't talk about it because it is sensitive financial information of a business or person.  But I wish my ex would have talked about his stuff more.  Even though I had no idea what he was talking about, I found it very sexy when he talked about it, haha.

My dad is also an academic and he would tell us about his stuff all the time, even when we were kids and didn't quite understand it.  It was still really interesting.  Obviously he didn't go into methodologies or anything like that, but he gave us a broad overview of what he was researching and what the results were showing. And sometimes into the weaknesses and strengths of the articles and what the reviewers were saying.

Science education research sounds fascinating, even for me as an accountant, so don't be afraid to talk to him about it.

[wildviolet]

^^ That is hilarious! Thanks for sharing.

[maelia8]

I talk to my parents about what I do in grad school all the time, and even though they don't understand everything, they're always happy to listen I am dating another graduate student (in a completely different field; I'm in humanities and he's in sciences), and I find it fascinating to trade our completely different fields, as well as what he's doing in his 4th year as opposed to what I'm doing in my first year. I also love talking to my sister about what I do and often wax quite poetic, and though she's still in undergrad she seems to find it interesting. I'd go ahead and tell him about what you do at least every couple of day, but keep it broad and not too long, and let him ask questions as he pleases to see what aspects he's interested in.

[victorydance]

I prefer someone who isn't a graduate student/academic. I have plenty of people to talk about my research interests I prefer to have my significant other to be someone I can just have fun and enjoy my free time with.

[music]

Our work probably is no more interesting to anyone else than jobs like accounting/sales/whatever seem to us. If you present your PhD as a job to your SO, expect them to engage with it on that level. We (as a society) tend to assume that people don't want to talk incessantly about their jobs, so your SO is most likely working on the basis that you're fine with that. Perhaps also try not to make the assumption that he isn't passionate about his work, or that leaving work in the office is a bad thing.

 

My SO is not in academia but totally engages with my studies and values them highly, even though I treat the PhD like a job as much as possible. He often asks questions about class and my papers and when they relate to how his own knowledge intersects with what I'm doing, we will chat about it, and he can be really helpful. I actually have to encourage him to talk more about his own job, which I respect and totally want to learn more about, because I think he really sees PhD as a lifestyle and his own job as therefore somehow less interesting.

[ProfLorax]

I'm married to a software engineer; I'm a PhD student of rhetoric. And honestly, I love that my partner is a non-academic. I talk to him about my work constantly, and it's really a great exercise: finding ways to communicate my super niche research interests to someone outside the field. Not to mention, he's actually helped me when I've gotten stuck and needed a new angle. I remember reading the same text over and over again and having nothing new to say about it; I asked him to read a page and tell me what he thought. Our conversation turned into a seminar paper and then into an article. It's wonderful to get an outsider's perspective sometimes!

[TMP]

I've noticed a pattern in my conversations with non-academics who are trying to relate to us in grad school: they connect on the theme of teaching.   If your date has been in school as an undergrad or whatever, s/he is going to be able to *get* it when you talk about teaching and offer more feedback/perspective.  Remember, even as grad students, we do other tasks besides research.

[SymmetryOfImperfection]

Seems like alot of females here.

 

From the male perspective, I'm cool with dating anyone with any job, because I'm a good listener and can get interested in alot of things, and can hold a conversation about things. Grad school in physics doesn't feel too different from my internship at a pharmaceutical plant - there's still corporate boardroom style meetings where we're told to raise our productivity or take customer satisfaction into account.

[wildviolet]

Okay, so here's the thing...

 

I've seen him a total of three times in the past week. The physical attraction is obviously there. But, he says on his profile that someone's intellect is not very important to him whereas I put the exact opposite--I love smart and nerdy guys!

 

I wonder if this is a deal breaker, or if I'm being too picky/unrealistic or need to re-examine what I want/need in a relationship. Everything else is awesome--we seem to have similar lifestyles and values. We're incredibly comfortable around each other. But, I'm not intellectually engaged when I'm with him, and I wonder if that's really necessary. I mean, my work provides me with intellectual stimulation, right? My girlfriends provide me with emotional support. My social dancing provides me with fun, challenge, connection, and self-expression. Maybe it's asking too much for a significant other to provide everything I need/want in life.

 

So, I'm not sure how much more time I should give this guy (truthfully, I only tried online dating for fun and never expected to meet a really nice guy, so if it doesn't work out, I'm happy to go back to my crazy grad school life).

[wildviolet]

Seems like alot of females here.

 

From the male perspective, I'm cool with dating anyone with any job, because I'm a good listener and can get interested in alot of things, and can hold a conversation about things. Grad school in physics doesn't feel too different from my internship at a pharmaceutical plant - there's still corporate boardroom style meetings where we're told to raise our productivity or take customer satisfaction into account.

 

This makes me think that maybe for guys... it doesn't matter what the girl does as long as she's happy with it. Maybe more important things are... her looks, physical attraction to her, her smile, her laugh and sense of humor, the way she makes him feel. These are all the things he's complimented me for... but since he's never asked about my work or any deep intellectual stuff, he hasn't said anything about me being smart... which is something that's very important to me.

[maelia8]

@wildviolet, if that's important for you, then I don't think you're overreacting to be considering whether this is a path you want to go down. I'm a grad student dating another grad student (completely different field), and I love the intellectual stimulation I get from talking to him about research and even just the daily grind of grad school in general. Like you, I really like smart, academically successful men, and the times I've dated men who didn't fall in this category (in my case, a musician, a cook, and an outdoorsman), I felt like something was missing because they didn't really "get" what I do, and I worried about talking about academics too much and sounding stuck-up or superior (these were people who didn't even necessarily go to college). It's all about whether you feel comfortable with him, but if this disparity is making you uncomfortable, feel free to take a step back and reassess.

[wildviolet]

^^ Thanks for that perspective!

 

Sigh. His lack of curiosity about my work/studies is getting to me.

 

I mean, I even asked him about his work--duh, I know what accounting is, but I asked him what he actually does... and he told me about it and how he should sit for the CPA exam to have more work options (but is too lazy to). Um, red flag???

 

I mean, he's got no kids, no major obligations, and yet can't get himself motivated to sit for the exam? What's kind of funny is that on my profile, my personality compared to other women on this dating site is that I am #1 more ambitious than the average woman. Yep. Definitely why I'm in grad school working my butt off to write the best dissertation I can. On my profile, I write that I'm always thinking about... my dissertation! I'm not sure that I'll eventually be compatible with someone who isn't somewhat driven to succeed (c'mon, sitting for the CPA exam must be easier than writing a dissertation).

 

In addition--he never asked me about my work in return.

 

I'm afraid that he's just using me for "cuddling" (which I may not mind too much, actually, since I have absolutely no feelings for the guy).

Edited March 10, 2015 by wildviolet

[rising_star]

If it bothers you already and it seems like it's unlikely to change, then perhaps this isn't a relationship that will last. That's fine. It's okay to have a cuddle-buddy or whatever if that's what makes you happy for the time being.

[ss2player]

^^ Thanks for that perspective!

 

Sigh. His lack of curiosity about my work/studies is getting to me.

 

I mean, I even asked him about his work--duh, I know what accounting is, but I asked him what he actually does... and he told me about it and how he should sit for the CPA exam to have more work options (but is too lazy to). Um, red flag???

 

I mean, he's got no kids, no major obligations, and yet can't get himself motivated to sit for the exam? What's kind of funny is that on my profile, my personality compared to other women on this dating site is that I am #1 more ambitious than the average woman. Yep. Definitely why I'm in grad school working my butt off to write the best dissertation I can. On my profile, I write that I'm always thinking about... my dissertation! I'm not sure that I'll eventually be compatible with someone who isn't somewhat driven to succeed (c'mon, sitting for the CPA exam must be easier than writing a dissertation).

 

In addition--he never asked me about my work in return.

 

I'm afraid that he's just using me for "cuddling" (which I may not mind too much, actually, since I have absolutely no feelings for the guy).

 

Sounds like you guys aren't relationship compatible, and it's better you found this out earlier rather than later! I was stuck in a 3+ year relationship with an unambitious person and it was soul-sucking by the end. I gave her innumerable chances to prove me wrong, but the fact is, you really can't change someone; you have to date them for who they are, not who you *want* them to be.

 

Would you be cool with a FWB with him? You guys have fun and you have no romantic feelings, so maybe he feels the same. Wouldn't hurt to broach it, but definitely tell him how you feel (or rather don't feel).

[wildviolet]

Sounds like you guys aren't relationship compatible, and it's better you found this out earlier rather than later! I was stuck in a 3+ year relationship with an unambitious person and it was soul-sucking by the end. I gave her innumerable chances to prove me wrong, but the fact is, you really can't change someone; you have to date them for who they are, not who you *want* them to be.

 

Would you be cool with a FWB with him? You guys have fun and you have no romantic feelings, so maybe he feels the same. Wouldn't hurt to broach it, but definitely tell him how you feel (or rather don't feel).

 

Thanks... yes, I have learned to accept people for who they are, and I do not want to become some man's "mother." So, it really bothered me that he was 40, had hit a plateau in his career, saw the way up, yet refused (for whatever reason) to pursue his dreams. Leaving my family and everything I had known behind to come to grad school on my own was daring--and I want to be with someone who is just as daring.

 

I don't think I would have time for a FWB with him (besides, I couldn't help comparing him to my ex, and he was measuring up... kind of short.) So, on to the next one, I suppose.