2016 Applicants

[slptobe92]

I've seen people on the results board hear from Southern CT State, Gallaudet, and William Paterson over the last few days. I haven't heard anything yet. Should I take that as a no? That's been the pattern lately with other schools for me at least.

[_Deleted_]

For anybody waiting on a decision from Worcester State University - looks like they have finally started sending them out. I received my acceptance today (via snail mail).

Will be declining - hopefully this will help out somebody on the waitlist

[SLPgradstudent]

7 hours ago, racoomelon said:

Oh, so this is consistently a problem? Yeah, they need to do something about that... They can probably move the deadline a bit earlier or practice rolling admissions to avoid drowning in the number of applications. 

I know University of Delaware just opened (or is in the process of opening) a program. But a lot of universities don't have one at all-- I've gone through the ASHA EdFind to look at different schools (and to pass the down time working dreaded reception shifts at my job), and when I look by state I'm always shocked to see the lack of programs in some states. And most of the programs that do exist only offer 25 spots, so you can't get all that many people in. While I would prefer to be in a smaller cohort, those numbers can't make it easy to produce a lot of new SLPs. 

I think @orange23 makes a good point. I know that most people don't pursue PhDs because you only need an MS to practice, and most people probably aren't interested in working as professors. But if you have the large faculty you can have a larger cohort. So maybe more of us need to go the PhD route. 

7 hours ago, EESpeechie said:

I'm not sure what the pay in other states is like but the Cal State professors get paid less than what they could potentially make as a professional which takes any money incentives there might be to becoming professors. I don't believe people should do it for the money but many qualified SLPs won't pursue academia because it's four more years of school to only get less pay (especially if they've got families to support)

@racoomelon, this is not a new problem.  There a too few grad school spots to fill the current need for speech pathologists.  Part of the problem has to do with the shortage of professors, but another aspect is the clinical placements available.  Mostly, SLP's are supervised in a one-to-one model, which means the supervising SLP is only teaching one grad student at a time.  Also, the professors who are already teaching often are "mostly a researcher, but teach some too."  Not to mention that it takes at least 4-7 years to complete the doctorate generally required of professors, without any pay compensation for the extra time spent in school.  And yes, @EESpeechie, they often don't pay as well as other SLP opportunities.  About 28% of full-time faculty openings go unfilled.  This is a systemic problem, not just something a few schools are struggling with.

So that horrendous and obscenely competitive application process we all just went through?  Yeah, that's basically why.

[copaceticbroad]

Don't you think the problem is the small number of programs? The demand isn't quite as high as it is for teachers, but it's increasing and universities aren't keeping pace. Some have even closed (SUNY Geneseo).

Also, professors don't need PhDs. Some of my pre-reqs have been taught by people with doctorates, but quite a few haven't. I get that it would be irresponsible to run a program without any PhDs, but it doesn't seem like doctoral education would make you more qualified to teach this material.

[SLPgradstudent]

11 hours ago, copaceticbroad said:

Don't you think the problem is the small number of programs? The demand isn't quite as high as it is for teachers, but it's increasing and universities aren't keeping pace. Some have even closed (SUNY Geneseo).

Also, professors don't need PhDs. Some of my pre-reqs have been taught by people with doctorates, but quite a few haven't. I get that it would be irresponsible to run a program without any PhDs, but it doesn't seem like doctoral education would make you more qualified to teach this material.

Yes, part of the problem is certainly the small number of SLP programs.

And I'm not talking about teaching undergrad/pre-reqs, I'm talking about teaching at the graduate level.  To my knowledge, many graduate programs require their professors to be PhD level researchers, in addition to teaching (see above article).  You can also read more on ASHA's website:

http://www.asha.org/Students/faq-pursuing-phd/#1

http://www.asha.org/Students/Planning-Your-Education-in-CSD/

I can't actually find anything that says that professors must have a PhD, but that's the sense that I get.  If you want to teach at the graduate level, you have to have a PhD.  And you often can't just teach, you also have to be a researcher.  That's not by any means unique to the field of speech pathology, but it is a problem for the field, due to the shortage of SLPs currently.

[Jolie717]

3 hours ago, SLPgradstudent said:

Yes, part of the problem is certainly the small number of SLP programs.

And I'm not talking about teaching undergrad/pre-reqs, I'm talking about teaching at the graduate level.  To my knowledge, many graduate programs require their professors to be PhD level researchers, in addition to teaching (see above article).  You can also read more on ASHA's website:

http://www.asha.org/Students/faq-pursuing-phd/#1

http://www.asha.org/Students/Planning-Your-Education-in-CSD/

I can't actually find anything that says that professors must have a PhD, but that's the sense that I get.  If you want to teach at the graduate level, you have to have a PhD.  And you often can't just teach, you also have to be a researcher.  That's not by any means unique to the field of speech pathology, but it is a problem for the field, due to the shortage of SLPs currently.

There are some other doctorate degrees that allow teaching at the grad level as well.  (CScD, PhDs in related subjects like linguistics, possibly doctorates in education, etc etc)

[jazspeaks]

I've also heard that part of the reason for the small number of students admitted to the programs has to do with the availability of clinical practicum sites and funding.  Insurance companies won't pay for non-certified SLPs and that makes it hard to find clinical sites for grad students.

More programs are definitely needed.  There's only a postbacc program available in Alaska.  If I don't want to do distance learning, I have to move out of state.

[Puffer Fish]

Man, I really, really hope Pittsburgh gets a lot of applicants who go somewhere else this year...they're my last and only hope. T_T 

All the waiting is wreaking havoc on my patience!

[SpeechieM]

1 hour ago, Puffer Fish said:

Man, I really, really hope Pittsburgh gets a lot of applicants who go somewhere else this year...they're my last and only hope. T_T 

All the waiting is wreaking havoc on my patience!

I'm going to be rejecting my acceptance to Pitt because of the cost and distance so I hope it helps you!

[MangoSmoothie]

On 3/20/2016 at 8:52 PM, copaceticbroad said:

Don't you think the problem is the small number of programs? The demand isn't quite as high as it is for teachers, but it's increasing and universities aren't keeping pace. Some have even closed (SUNY Geneseo).

Also, professors don't need PhDs. Some of my pre-reqs have been taught by people with doctorates, but quite a few haven't. I get that it would be irresponsible to run a program without any PhDs, but it doesn't seem like doctoral education would make you more qualified to teach this material.

 

@copaceticbroad Yes, professors in this field generally do need PhDs, according to the Standards for Accreditation.

http://www.asha.org/uploadedFiles/Accreditation-Standards-Graduate-Programs.pdf

This is for graduate programs, not undergraduate programs, but graduate programs need to have sufficient faculty with doctoral degrees in order to be accredited by ASHA.

• 2.1 All faculty members, including all individuals providing clinical education, are qualified and competent by virtue of their education, experience, and professional credentials to provide academic and clinical education assigned by the program.
  
  ...Academic content is to be taught by doctoral-level faculty except where there is a compelling rationale for instruction by an individual with other professional qualifications that satisfy institutional policy.
   
• 2.2 The number of full-time doctoral-level faculty in speech-language pathology, audiology,and speech, language, and hearing sciences and other full-and part-time faculty is sufficient to meet the teaching, research, and service needs of the program and the expectations of the institution. The institution provides stable support and resources for the program's faculty.
  
  ...This number must include research-qualified faculty (e.g., PhDs). The program must document that the number of doctoral-level and other faculty is sufficient to offer the breadth and depth of the curriculum, including its scientific and research components, so that students can complete the requirements within a reasonable time period and achieve the expected knowledge and skills.

In order for a program to be accredited by ASHA, they need to have doctoral faculty, and clinical doctorates do not meet the qualifications either. A PhD in another field is sometimes sufficient it seems, however. Some classes can be taught by professors without doctoral degrees, and ASHA doesn't regulate undergraduate/prereq instruction. The small number of programs is affected by the need to have sufficient PhD faculty on staff to get an accredited program, and there's a decent shortage of PhDs in our field. So yes, according to ASHA, you do need a PhD to teach this material. PhD faculty are experts in their fields. They're (regrettably) not always the best actual teachers, but they have a depth of knowledge about their fields/areas of study that others don't, even practicing SLPs.

One program I was accepted to last year was cited for non-compliance by ASHA for not having enough PhD faculty, and they were at risk of being put on probation for it because of the high number of graduate classes being taught by non-doctoral faculty. In my graduate program, all of my classes are taught by those with PhDs, except the ones that are directly about practicing, such as our on-campus practicums, and classes about providing services in the various environments.

Short version: Yes, the number of SLP graduate programs is directly affected by the number of PhDs in the field, and ASHA takes their standards for accreditation very seriously.

Edited March 21, 2016 by MangoSmoothie
formatting

[Jolie717]

On March 19, 2016 at 4:27 AM, SLPgradstudent said:

It's crazy how every year, grad school entrance is so insanely competitive and schools know that, and yet, the next year, they're overwhelmed/unprepared by how many applications they receive.  This year doesn't seem to be the exception, it seems to be the trend.  I think we should all commit, once we're all SLPs, to working to solve this problem we have of such a tiny bottleneck, for such an important field.  The need exists, the jobs exist, the grad school spots do not.  If we don't change things, who will, right?  (Or is this just my lack of sleep talking?)

Now that I've had some time to think about it, be very careful what you wish for!  Supply and demand, know what I mean?  ?

I say this as someone in a profession where big hiring bonuses were the norm, "travel pay"   (yay, thanks extra 10 miles) added hundreds of dollars in a week's check, offers of $200-300 extra incentive pay were common (on top of salary) if you would work an extra shift.  Work an extra overtime hour or so?  We will give you another $100 on top of double-time pay! 

Those were the days!  I get it - it sucks trying to get into grad school for SLP.  And I do think programs need to expand based on current demand and our extremely large pool of talented and qualified applicants.  

But at the end of the day, we don't want our field to become over-saturated, as my current one has.  It is truly a crazy balancing act - we do need enough SLPs to fill all the open positions.  Too few, and SLPAs are doing work they shouldn't.  Too many, and we become undervalued and underpaid.

Just some food for thought!

[SLPgradstudent]

6 hours ago, Jolie717 said:

Now that I've had some time to think about it, be very careful what you wish for!  Supply and demand, know what I mean?  ?

I say this as someone in a profession where big hiring bonuses were the norm, "travel pay"   (yay, thanks extra 10 miles) added hundreds of dollars in a week's check, offers of $200-300 extra incentive pay were common (on top of salary) if you would work an extra shift.  Work an extra overtime hour or so?  We will give you another $100 on top of double-time pay! 

Those were the days!  I get it - it sucks trying to get into grad school for SLP.  And I do think programs need to expand based on current demand and our extremely large pool of talented and qualified applicants.  

But at the end of the day, we don't want our field to become over-saturated, as my current one has.  It is truly a crazy balancing act - we do need enough SLPs to fill all the open positions.  Too few, and SLPAs are doing work they shouldn't.  Too many, and we become undervalued and underpaid.

Just some food for thought!

You make a good point @Jolie717.  But I think we're far from becoming oversaturated.  It's nice for us now, since we've gotten into grad school and are on the way to those widely available jobs.  But I've heard many stories about way too heavy caseloads, and I think it's important to consider the needs of the populations we serve.  If they don't have access to services because there weren't enough SLPs to hire one for that area, they miss out.  Don't you think that's unfair to that child, or that stroke patient, etc.?  I think we can find a balance, and there's a way to let more SLPs enter the field without becoming completely oversaturated.  Because of the circumstances that have created this problem, I think we're a long ways off from creating the opposite problem.  There are too many factors involved.  What do you think?

[esopha]

This is the meatiest, most interesting discussion I've ever seen on Grad Cafe. I'm so proud of us.

In all seriousness, though, I think there does need to be a balance between increasing the number of schools providing the MA-SLP and oversaturating the field. SLP already has a reputation for being a stable, relatively well-paying career that people can transition into, which is one of the reasons I'm here in the first place. If you think about other fields where that have had this reputation - law is the first that comes to mind - a sudden and sharp increase in the number of schools didn't only devalue the degree. Suddenly there were lots of lawyers with limited experience, student debt, and poor preparation for the field, which is not a good combination. I think the fact that schools are focusing on providing quality education to future clinicians is a good thing. I do hope that programs are able to grow in the next couple of years, but only if that doesn't compromise the level of education that people are receiving, because, like @SLPgradstudent said, we need to consider the needs of the patients.

[Jolie717]

3 hours ago, SLPgradstudent said:

You make a good point @Jolie717.  But I think we're far from becoming oversaturated.  It's nice for us now, since we've gotten into grad school and are on the way to those widely available jobs.  But I've heard many stories about way too heavy caseloads, and I think it's important to consider the needs of the populations we serve.  If they don't have access to services because there weren't enough SLPs to hire one for that area, they miss out.  Don't you think that's unfair to that child, or that stroke patient, etc.?  I think we can find a balance, and there's a way to let more SLPs enter the field without becoming completely oversaturated.  Because of the circumstances that have created this problem, I think we're a long ways off from creating the opposite problem.  There are too many factors involved.  What do you think?

Very true as well - I remember  reading something not too long ago about how the Fresno school district here in California got in trouble.  There weren't enough SLPs, and students who qualified for services were not receiving them.

Esopha makes an excellent point as well.  My sister was one of "the lucky ones" as she went to a top ten law school and was able to secure a great position.  Fast forward eight years,  when she was trying to move into a different area of practice?  No jobs.  My brother-in-law had just graduated from law school (not a top ten) and he couldn't get a job to save his life.  He did some contract work here and there, hated it, and decided law wasn't for him.  While being left with about $150K in student loan debt.  My sister eventually found a new firm that she loves, but it took about three years of job hunting and dead end interviews.  It was very demoralizing for her...

[BamaBelle]

Just got my acceptance to Central Arkansas. Looks like 64 other people got the email as well

[SLPgradstudent]

4 hours ago, esopha said:

This is the meatiest, most interesting discussion I've ever seen on Grad Cafe. I'm so proud of us.

In all seriousness, though, I think there does need to be a balance between increasing the number of schools providing the MA-SLP and oversaturating the field. SLP already has a reputation for being a stable, relatively well-paying career that people can transition into, which is one of the reasons I'm here in the first place. If you think about other fields where that have had this reputation - law is the first that comes to mind - a sudden and sharp increase in the number of schools didn't only devalue the degree. Suddenly there were lots of lawyers with limited experience, student debt, and poor preparation for the field, which is not a good combination. I think the fact that schools are focusing on providing quality education to future clinicians is a good thing. I do hope that programs are able to grow in the next couple of years, but only if that doesn't compromise the level of education that people are receiving, because, like @SLPgradstudent said, we need to consider the needs of the patients.

I'm really excited that we've actually engaged in a conversation about this!  I'm proud of us too.

1 hour ago, Jolie717 said:

Very true as well - I remember  reading something not too long ago about how the Fresno school district here in California got in trouble.  There weren't enough SLPs, and students who qualified for services were not receiving them.

Esopha makes an excellent point as well.  My sister was one of "the lucky ones" as she went to a top ten law school and was able to secure a great position.  Fast forward eight years,  when she was trying to move into a different area of practice?  No jobs.  My brother-in-law had just graduated from law school (not a top ten) and he couldn't get a job to save his life.  He did some contract work here and there, hated it, and decided law wasn't for him.  While being left with about $150K in student loan debt.  My sister eventually found a new firm that she loves, but it took about three years of job hunting and dead end interviews.  It was very demoralizing for her...

Nursing is a field that seems comparable to SLP in terms of the shortage.  Not surprising, given that the demand for both fields is increasing in part due to the aging baby boomer population.  We definitely do not want to lower the standard of the education or the care we provide.  But I think that it is possible to increase the number of people entering the field who are well qualified.  There are people who apply to grad programs every year that the schools know are well qualified, but they just don't have enough spots.  These are the people that we need to get into the field somehow.  I think there's a long way to go between the current shortage and over-saturation.  I mean we can at least find a way to get more people into the teaching side of things.  28% of full-time faculty positions unfilled?  That's over a quarter.  We gotta do something.

[SLPgradstudent]

1 hour ago, BamaBelle said:

Just got my acceptance to Central Arkansas. Looks like 64 other people got the email as well

Congratulations @BamaBelle!!!  Do you know where you are going to go yet?

[Speechpath18]

Who else got waitlisted for Fredonia?? 

[BamaBelle]

13 minutes ago, SLPgradstudent said:

Congratulations @BamaBelle!!!  Do you know where you are going to go yet?

Thanks!! I don't, and I'm really stressed about it. I'm leaning toward Dallas, but it's the most expensive by quite a bit. I'm also still waiting on Bama and some funding decisions to come through so I can make a fully informed decision. 

[SLPgradstudent]

Just now, BamaBelle said:

Thanks!! I don't, and I'm really stressed about it. I'm leaning toward Dallas, but it's the most expensive by quite a bit. I'm also still waiting on Bama and some funding decisions to come through so I can make a fully informed decision. 

I'm really hoping that we'll hear back about funding this week!  It doesn't affect my decision, but I know a lot of people won't be able to make a decision until they know what the funding offer is.  I hope you get a great funding package from Dallas so you can have an easy decision!

[BamaBelle]

Haha me too!! Thank you!!  Are you definitely going to UMD, or will you wait to see about GWU?

 

[SLPgradstudent]

13 minutes ago, BamaBelle said:

Haha me too!! Thank you!!  Are you definitely going to UMD, or will you wait to see about GWU?

 

I'm going to UMD!  GWU is a wonderful program, but more expensive than UMD since I have in-state tuition.  I accepted my offer to UMD right away.  It's my dream school, and I am so excited to start this fall!

[BamaBelle]

40 minutes ago, SLPgradstudent said:

I'm going to UMD!  GWU is a wonderful program, but more expensive than UMD since I have in-state tuition.  I accepted my offer to UMD right away.  It's my dream school, and I am so excited to start this fall!

Wow that's awesome! It must be so nice to be accepted and able to go to your top choice! 

[SLPgradstudent]

30 minutes ago, BamaBelle said:

Wow that's awesome! It must be so nice to be accepted and able to go to your top choice! 

It feels amazing!  I wish everyone could have this experience, I really do.  I was scared I wouldn't get in anywhere, because I could only apply to 2 schools this cycle.  It was a huge relief to get in.  Even better that I got into my top choice!

[Rorororosy]

35 minutes ago, BamaBelle said:

Wow that's awesome! It must be so nice to be accepted and able to go to your top choice! 

Will you stay in Bama if you get in? 

It is hard to move away from home, especially alabama. ROLL TIDE ROLL!