Time off between undergrad and grad?

[Ilikekitties]

Two of my profs are recommending that I take 1-2 years off between undergrad and grad. I'm a senior in undergrad and they recommend that I look into Peace Corps or Americorps. Any suggestions? What kinds of people can make it through the PhD without burnout and without taking time off? I will also be applying to 12 grad programs this fall, so will either of these programs be a reason for a grad program to defer me?

[gingin6789]

I wonder why they're specifically recommending the Peace Corps or Americorps for you.  What program/major are you applying for? Really, the kinds of people who can make it through PhD without some kind of burnout might not even exist; we all reach a burnout or breaking point in grad school, but it's a matter of whether your passion outweighs those breakdowns/whether those breakdowns aren't too tremendous to keep you from pushing on.

How do YOU feel about continuing on to grad school right after graduating? You also said you're a senior: are you graduating this December, or are you graduating in May?

12 programs is a lot, in that you'd have to write 12 SOPs, get 12 LORs from three profs, etc.  As for your question, what do you mean by grad programs deferring you because of Americorps or Peace Corps? My friend worked for Americorps in undergrad, and, if anything, working for them helped her get some of her application fees waived (which is super handy since they're usually at least $75 a pop).

Best of luck to you! Sorry for having more questions than answers, but I'll be around to keep up the conversation!

 

[Ilikekitties]

I'm not sure why they are recommending PC/AC, mostly AC though. I'm applying for mostly PhD programs in anthropology. I'll be graduating in May.

I'm ambivalent about starting grad school right away. What is more important to me is whether or not I would be able to support myself financially. I do love school though. I'm applying to 12 programs because I want to increase my chances of admittance. I'm also in a program that will allow me to use fee waivers (I'm low-income/first-gen).

Edited October 8, 2015 by CostaRita

[dr. t]

Professors usually advise people to take time off in between undergraduate and graduate studies so that students can mature, get some real-world experience, and figure out what they really want to do. If you're planning on applying to twelve programs, I suspect your professors are most concerned about the latter, i.e. that you're more interested in the idea of going to grad school than you are in the actual subject you want to research. Remember, the purpose of graduate school is to get a job, and so where you get in is way more important than whether or not you do.

Deferrals to PhD programs are not usually granted barring exceptional circumstances. 

[fuzzylogician]

It's not just a question of being able to make it through school without burnout, but also a question of getting some perspective. Going from high school to undergrad to grad school without doing anything else means for some people not having a clear idea of what it means to work a full time job, earn a "real" salary, or even what minimum wage can buy you these days. For many undergrads, the first time they will have looked for an apartment, gone to the DMV, applied for a job, etc. will be after graduating, but you don't do (some of) these things as a graduate student. So at least in part it's just a matter of knowing what's out there and interacting more regularly with people outside academia. Personally, I think this is very important, and I would advise everyone to get some more experience before committing to more school and a fairly narrow career path. One more year won't make a big difference if you choose to go back to school, but if you discover another passion, it could make all the difference in the world.

[Ilikekitties]

One prof mentioned that I should know what it's like to be an adult outside of school. She said that I'm intellectually very mature for a BA, but I could mature socially from having more life experience.

Edited October 8, 2015 by CostaRita

[Ilikekitties]

I think that if I get any opportunities for next year, whether they be Fulbright, Americorps, grad school, full-time job, etc, I think that the most important thing for me is the question of whether or not I’ll be secure enough to be financially independent. I have cousins who are years older than myself and they’re still living at home. I love my parents and all, but I can’t do that. So I do think that my decision will come down to benefits and whether or not the pay  will be high enough to support myself for the specific location. It’s not so much that I’m hell-bent on going to grad school right away, but if I happen to get in with full funding and a nice stipend, it may be a good decision financially over whatever I could get for a job. We’ll see. I’m trying not to think about it until I have options to choose from. I want to apply for as many things as I can because I want options. If grad school falls through, I won’t be super bummed as long as I have something that will prevent me staying in my parents’ house. 

An uncle of mine asked me if I would be moving back home because he thinks it’s a smart choice. He has two daughters and a son between the ages of 22 and 27 - the 27-year-old nurse is broke living in her apartment and the 22-year-old college grad/nurse is broke living in an apartment with her boyfriend. The 24-year-old college grad/engineer is living at home and is much better off financially. That scares me.

[TakeruK]

12 programs may be a lot, but I don't think it's unreasonable or "too much", if these programs are all good matches for you. As telkanuru says, if you are not focussed in your applications or interests, then some time off might be a good idea to figure out what you want to do!

Whether you can get a deferral depends on the school. My school is pretty generous with deferrals---many students in my department have received one. One student would be the only person in a cohort of one, so they asked to defer for a year. Another student had won an award to travel the world and do various research internships so they did that before attending.

I think what you should do, if you are not sure, is to apply to both Americorps/Peace Corps as well as graduate schools. Once you hear the results of your applications and your PC/AC applications, then you can decide what you want to do. If you choose PC/AC then you can ask the school of your choice for a deferral for PC/AC. The worst that could happen is that they say no, you will have to be reconsidered again against all new applicants next year (not a big deal and maybe they will even keep your application on file for you). But if they agree to enroll you and let you defer your start date, then you won't have to worry about applying to grad schools when you are busy with your PC/AC work!

---

I think your professors might be giving you good advice when they are suggesting a gap between grad school and undergrad. I think taking the time to mature is a good pre-requisite to enter grad school. However, this doesn't mean you have to put yourself in a position where you are broke living in an apartment!

I think it's a very reasonable and smart thing for you to think about financial independence. I lived at home during college so that when I moved out for grad school (and across the country), I was much better off financially than those who moved out for college. I do understand what you mean by loving your family but being ready to live away from them though. However, I only chose to do so because it made financial sense.

When considering grad school, I definitely factored in the pay and the cost of living so that I would be financially stable and independent. This is also why I think you have the right idea by keeping your options open at this time and applying broadly. Applying to grad schools does not mean you have to attend! And as you said, it will also be easier to decide when you have the options laid out---do you want to do grad school for $X per year or would these other opportunities sound better for you? Apply and see

[Ilikekitties]

Yup! Thanks!

[knp]

The thing about the volunteer programs you have listed is, they should let you live on your own without going into debt. Peace Corps should provide housing, and I think Americorps volunteers tend to share apartments between a number of them. No savings, for sure, but independence.

What field of anthropology are you? I wonder if professors might be particularly likely to recommend time off to gain emotional maturity if you intend to enter one of the interview-based research fields, because your evidence will often come from connecting with people from wildly different backgrounds and ages, which is easier with practice.

PS I am pro time off because I am currently at the end of my year(s) off. It was very helpful! I am putting together proposals that are 50x more mature and thoughtful than I could have last year, which would have been 10x more mature and thoughtful than I could have written as a college senior. I'm sure there are other people who wouldn't find it as helpful—I can't guarantee 10x better, let alone 500x—but I in particular only discovered my desired field late in college, so I've spent the past couple years growing into the idea and refining my interests.

[Ilikekitties]

Cultural anthro, so yes, interview and immersion-based.

[zipykido]

Also peace corps provides loan forgiveness if you tough it out for the two years, it's not 100% but depending on your loans, they don't accrue interest during the period and at the end you get a portion wiped away. Also you get a small stipend when you get back if you're going straight back into grad school that's useful for down payment for an apartment or car. I used to work with anthropologist and it seemed like the best thing to is full immersion to see if you like it or not. I think the peace corps can provide a good surrogate for that. Also depending on the location it'll be a good test for whether you're prepared for grad school. 

[rising_star]

I'm not sure why they are recommending PC/AC, mostly AC though. I'm applying for mostly PhD programs in anthropology. I'll be graduating in May.

I'm ambivalent about starting grad school right away. What is more important to me is whether or not I would be able to support myself financially. I do love school though. I'm applying to 12 programs because I want to increase my chances of admittance. I'm also in a program that will allow me to use fee waivers (I'm low-income/first-gen).

If you're ambivalent about starting right away, you're going to have to be really careful about making sure that doesn't show in your applications and in any interviews you do. No one wants to admit someone that's already ambivalent because then there's a higher likelihood that they won't actually ever complete the program, which isn't desirable from the department's perspective. Plus, ambivalence really does often come through in applications, just in small things like your wording and expression of your interests. 

It seems like your foremost concern is money. Well, graduate school doesn't actually pay super well, especially not in anthropology at most places. I guess you might need to figure out how much money you're comfortable with having/making/earning and how much you need to live on. Would you be okay with $16K in Bloomington, Indiana or would it need to be more for you to support yourself financially? (FWIW, Americorps programs in many places have similar pay to grad assistantships in the humanities and social sciences.) If it's more, then you may want to eliminate schools from your list of 12 programs based on the stipend the pay compared to the cost of living in the area.

Finally, I just want to say that you should try not to let fear of the unknown (in this case, what kind of job you might get) drive your life. I know it's hard but it's also really important if you're going to reach the goals you have for yourself.

[leafynotepads]

If I could I would avoid it, unless you aren't completely sure. Life has a way of delaying things.

[Ilikekitties]

I would like to go straight in, but one of my recommenders isn't so sure :/

[otherss]

Another option you could do that might help convince your letter writer and yourself is to apply for the Peace Corps at the same time as grad schools like TakeruK said, but instead of applying to PhD programs specifically you could apply to Masters programs covered under Peace Corps's Masters International program using that professor as a recommender. You'd do a year at a campus then two years somewhere for service then one more year finishing up your degree. Depending on the program you apply to, you might even be able to convert into a PhD degree program. I'd give you what you want in the beginning (kind of) and what the professor recommends. It'd be great for cultural immersion and you might be able to come up with a better more focused thesis or dissertation proposal at the end of it. And that 8K at the end is nice for getting back on your feet when you get back. 

And with the new application system for Peace Corps, you can pretty much pick your country/culture. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by otherss

[Ilikekitties]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[juilletmercredi]

As someone who went straight through from undergrad to PhD I am a huge huge HUGE advocate of taking a few years to do something besides school. Even for students who really really want it and think they are 95% sure they want a PhD. But especially for a student who is ambivalent and really rates financial stability as being a top priority. Graduate school stipends do NOT confer financial stability. It looks that way from the outside, but there are all kinds of caveats. My first stipend was around $32,000 in New York, which sounds like it should be enough to live on, particularly since I was sharing an apartment with another graduate student. It was - just barely. Had I had some kind of crisis or emergency I would've been wiped out. I had friends who did not have summer support and had to run around to try to get that. There's conference travel for presenting, which often takes a bite out of your income (even if your department says they support students, it's often not enough to cover all the expenses for one trip. And often they reimburse you.) There are additional things you need to get that your stipend will have to stretch to cover.

And $32,000 is an extremely generous stipend for a graduate program. I know the anthropology stipends were less even at my same university, and they are quite a bit less at other universities in other locales - even expensive ones. (I think CUNY was paying out around $18,000.)

Let me put it this way...I spent 6 years in my PhD program. I don't regret it, and I have an awesome job (in industry) that I could've only gotten with a PhD in the field I finished in. But people still ask me 1) if it was worth it and 2) if I would do it all over again, and I still don't know how to answer either of those questions (my degree was conferred a year and two days ago). Nothing even particularly bad happened to me during my PhD program - I was funded all the way through at above-average levels, got a couple of papers published, lived in a great city, got married, had good friends...but it's just a really long slog to do particularly if you would be equally happy doing something that didn't require a PhD at all. I had no idea of the kinds of jobs I could do without a PhD; I had no idea that I could get involved with research-related jobs even with a master's degree, and very little actual idea of what a PhD-holding person who wasn't a professor actually did on a day-to-day basis (because I didn't want to go into academia).

So your professors are just trying to encourage you to explore a little bit before you spend 6-8 years earning a degree that you potentially don't need to do what you want: to see if there are any other jobs you really love, figure out all that life stuff that was referenced above and really make concrete decisions about career and research that are filtered through experience.

Also...be easier on those cousins of yours. Sometimes moving back home IS a smart choice. I feel like we're way too hard on our generation; there's no switch that flips at college graduation/age 21-22 that magically helps you find a job that can support you at levels high enough to pay rent everywhere and allow you to save. Being under 30 and broke isn't all that uncommon - and honestly, if you go to graduate school living on a grad stipend, you will probably be 24 and broke, too! I was! It takes time to start earning more money, put enough in savings to be a cushion and build your life up. That doesn't mean you'll be starving, though.

 

 

[Ilikekitties]

Thanks so so so much for this!!! I will have some thinking to do when the time comes...

[Dropit]

I think there's a lot of value in taking a year or two off for some people. Like others have mentioned, getting some real world perspective is helpful and it can be nice to get a break from the grind. Not sure I'd mess with Americorps or Peace Corps unless it will have a direct positive impact on your future options. 

[tudor3x8]

I originally applied for grad school (some masters, some PhD) as a senior in college and I am extremely glad that I didn't pursue it (the grad schools all rejecting me also helped...). I probably would've felt overwhelmed/end up dropping. There's a lot of maturing that you get in the real world as well as job experience. You may also be able to truly pinpoint what you want to pursue. For me, I applied because I *thought* I wanted to become a professor/because I thought I had to/because my parents thought I should. Which are all terrible ideas.

Taking time off will give you perspective on what you want, especially if you're not 100% sure or if you're already ambivalent. The grad programs are investing money in you, and they won't want someone who may drop out when they realize that graduate school isn't what they want.

[Ilikekitties]

Thanks for the insight! I got my first grad school rejection already. I hope that I get accepted somewhere, though.

[Opt4theBest]

I agree with taking some time of between college and grad school. I went to a business school for undergrad and seeing all my friends applying for an MBA program right after we graduated, I wanted to do the same, too. However, I couldn't afford it so I applied for job instead. I worked in a private sector for 3 years. Though making a lot of money, I hated it! Then I worked for the UN for another 3 years and I loved my job. Now my goal is more defined and I know what I really want to do. I am now applying for an MSW program. I think taking time off to explore what your desire in life is really is is not a waste of them. Don't forget Grad School is pricy and for most of us, this could be our last degree on earth.

[smallaxe]

I took four years off before starting my MA in Anthropology. I spent time living in two different countries, working a couple different jobs, and ultimately starting my own business. The time I spent abroad has really shaped my research question and I'm one of the few in my cohort not being discouraged from extended field work (I'm planning on 4 months compared to 3-6 weeks for others) because I have already made connections with potential interlocutors and have experience in my field site. I find that professors take me much more seriously now. They know I'm not studying because I had no idea what to do after my undergrad, but that I really want to be there. Also, there is a vast difference between the contributions people with 'life experience' make and those perpetual students make in class. Even my attitude towards studying is completely different than undergrad and different from others in my cohort. I'm a huge proponent of taking some time off!

[Pitangus]

2 hours ago, jamesaly said:

I took four years off before starting my MA in Anthropology. I spent time living in two different countries, working a couple different jobs, and ultimately starting my own business. The time I spent abroad has really shaped my research question and I'm one of the few in my cohort not being discouraged from extended field work (I'm planning on 4 months compared to 3-6 weeks for others) because I have already made connections with potential interlocutors and have experience in my field site. I find that professors take me much more seriously now. They know I'm not studying because I had no idea what to do after my undergrad, but that I really want to be there. Also, there is a vast difference between the contributions people with 'life experience' make and those perpetual students make in class. Even my attitude towards studying is completely different than undergrad and different from others in my cohort. I'm a huge proponent of taking some time off!

I just wrote about this in another thread, but another reason I'm glad I took a year to gain specialized field experience is that I was able to plan and get started on my dissertation research right away in my first year. I knew what sort of projects I wanted to do when I chose the lab, and I already had both the funding and the needed backgrounds and skills. Now I am on track to finish in the recommended time for my program. Others in my lab, and in the program, often end up staying longer because it took them awhile to plan their dissertation and start collecting relevant data.

I would recommend that everyone in my field at least consider getting some additional experience through field work jobs and/or post-bacc internships. Taking time between degrees shouldn't be seen as a negative choice that's for students who aren't "ready" to start a grad program; it's also beneficial for students who are ready and know their research interests and want to make themselves stand out to POIs (who in my experience love when their grad students come in with a lot of field experience and don't need to be taught the skills that are specific to their type of research), as well as make themselves more competitive for external fellowships.   

Edited January 31, 2016 by Pitangus