Too unstable to succeed?

[Catria]

I am writing about possibly dropping out of a physics PhD program (at the University of Minnesota) after one semester. (A little early in the program, I know) At the beginning, I was overconfident about my own ability to finish the program, I thought I was the same as everyone else in my class, I thought that, since past students at my level of ability could graduate from that very department, I could do so as well. As much as I would like to think that it isn't an indictment of any lack of ability on my part (until proven otherwise), I am candid in saying that the issue I am about to describe could have happened anywhere else (e.g. Notre Dame) and that the triggers would happen again.

It may well be that people within a range of personalities (how wide however, I don't know) may be more suitable for a PhD program than I was, but I had a nervous breakdown when I got last week's assignments back: 16/25 and 21/30 in classical physics and statistical mechanics respectively, and the worst part was that both assignments were on material that were undergraduate-level to me. I told myself that the only solace will come when the coursework will be over, that is, about two years from now. Perhaps 16/25s or 21/30s would feel less painful if the rest of the class struggled to similar extents and/or these assignments were about new material (however, a 8.5/10 in advanced quantum mechanics, in comparison, is heaven, and I actually got that grade), but underperforming in an assignment covering undergraduate material would make me feel that my place in that graduate program was proof of past ability at best.

I often hear about impostor syndrome, but as much as I would take credit for my past successes, I feel that my skill may have vanished since I last had any significant measure of success (being a finalist in a student scientific poster contest) in my field. But I know better than to blame my TA duties for this.

I usually feel better about poor positional performance if my absolute performance was satisfactory, or about poor absolute performance if my positional performance was satisfactory. But someone has to be at the bottom of the class for a given assignment and it happened to be me for that particular classical physics assignment. Nervous breakdowns of that type will happen again, and I think my emotional instability in the face of homework assignments will finally prove to be the one item that renders me unable to complete the program. For this reason, I do not feel I am cut out for a PhD program, despite past research experience telling me that research would probably make me feel better than coursework, thanks to the coursework bottleneck.

P.S.: I feel as if the assignment due tomorrow will ultimately decide whether I will stay in the program or drop out...

[rising_star]

Wait, is this your first semester? Definitely do not drop out yet. You need to find a therapist to talk to if receiving a homework grade is causing a nervous breakdown. I mean that in 100% seriousness. Call the student health center and make an appointment to talk to someone ASAP. Next, talk to the professor about your homework and find out what specifically they think you need to improve upon in order to succeed in the class. And finally, keep in mind that grades are semi-meaningless in grad school, especially at the PhD level. Good luck! Keep us posted on how things are going.

[TakeruK]

Don't drop out yet! Especially not because of homework assignment grades!

Adjusting to graduate school is hard. Everyone in your program used to be near the top of their undergraduate program. This is a tough change and I just want you to know that a lot of students feel something similar as you. You're right that it's not quite "imposter syndrome" in the sense that we normally hear about it. This is a little different, but also common in academia, I believe.

You mention that you are afraid you are no longer improving or even losing your skills. And you come to this conclusion because you have had successes in the past but they are not happening now, in graduate school. This is a feeling that is common to many students. One of the things about academia is that we often equate success/productivity with some sort of product or shiny thing, like a paper, an award, or a high mark in a class. I think it's important to move beyond this mindset, especially when you move away form coursework completely and it's all 100% research. You will get to that shiny thing eventually but it will take some time. For some students, they had always been near the best so the shiny thing wasn't as hard to get to. Now, the shiny thing will take longer to get to but that doesn't mean your skills have diminished. Instead, it just means you are now being challenged at a higher level and the shiny thing is harder to achieve! 

These are long term things though. For the short term, rising_star made some very good suggestions to keep yourself healthy and how to take action to improve on future assignments. It's a cliche but graduate school really is a marathon and it's important to find and build a good support network to help you through the tougher times.

Finally, just to share a story with some advice for our field: I came into my PhD program with a Masters degree and one of the first courses I took was the exact topic of my Masters thesis work. I was working with other students on the first problem set and there was a question that I thought I knew how to do because I had an idea on how to approach it based on my Masters work. But it was all wrong! I missed some very fundamental issues that you would learn in a beginning undergraduate physics class! And one of the other students pointed out a very simple solution that clearly shows they truly understood the concepts where I didn't. That was a really sucky experience and I felt terrible about myself and my ability. But I tried to learn from it and eventually it turns out there were things I knew that the others didn't and by the end of the school year, we all learned that most of us felt the same way as me in the first few months. My advice would be to be patient and give it time. Also, in physics type programs, it's almost essential to work with your classmates on the assignments. In the classes I took, there was usually no spread in the grades because we all worked together to come up with the same solutions (following class and university policies of course---we discussed approaches together but wrote up our own work so the differences in grades was only due to how well we wrote up each approach).

[GeoDUDE!]

if you get the minimum GPA required for your PhD program no one will ever know and the only one who might care is yourself. 

[Catria]

if you get the minimum GPA required for your PhD program no one will ever know and the only one who might care is yourself. 

Except that I am concerned about this particular course, the one whose assignment due today will probably decide whether I'll stay or not, making me unable to meet the minimum required GPA...

[rising_star]

Except that I am concerned about this particular course, the one whose assignment due today will probably decide whether I'll stay or not, making me unable to meet the minimum required GPA...

How can one homework assignment due at the midpoint in the semester be the determining factor in your grade in the course? Is this assignment worth >50% of your final grade? Take a look at your syllabus because you might be putting more weight on this homework assignment than it deserves. Also, you seriously need to talk to the professor of the course. You may be able to redo part of the homework or previous work in order to boost your grade. No one wants grad students to drop out in their first semester, especially not mid-semester over something like a problem set. That you are willing to act so rashly just reiterates why you need to talk a professional psychologist or therapist ASAP and before you do something like drop out of your program.

[Psycherd12]

I am writing about possibly dropping out of a physics PhD program (at the University of Minnesota) after one semester. (A little early in the program, I know) At the beginning, I was overconfident about my own ability to finish the program, I thought I was the same as everyone else in my class, I thought that, since past students at my level of ability could graduate from that very department, I could do so as well. As much as I would like to think that it isn't an indictment of any lack of ability on my part (until proven otherwise), I am candid in saying that the issue I am about to describe could have happened anywhere else (e.g. Notre Dame) and that the triggers would happen again.

I am also at the University of Minnesota and experienced similar things when I started my graduate degree here last year. Call SCS (student counseling services) and schedule an appointment ASAP. Tell them it's a crisis and they'll fit you in right away, otherwise you'll have to wait a few weeks. Their mental health services are what kept me in my program.

[Catria]

How can one homework assignment due at the midpoint in the semester be the determining factor in your grade in the course? Is this assignment worth >50% of your final grade? Take a look at your syllabus because you might be putting more weight on this homework assignment than it deserves. Also, you seriously need to talk to the professor of the course. You may be able to redo part of the homework or previous work in order to boost your grade. No one wants grad students to drop out in their first semester, especially not mid-semester over something like a problem set. That you are willing to act so rashly just reiterates why you need to talk a professional psychologist or therapist ASAP and before you do something like drop out of your program.

It's actually a chain of things, which will have the aforementionned consequences if left unchecked. If I do poorly on problem sets, I lose motivation fast enough to throw me off-balance, especially if tests cover the same material as said problem sets.

[fuzzylogician]

It's actually a chain of things, which will have the aforementioned consequences if left unchecked. If I do poorly on problem sets, I lose motivation fast enough to throw me off-balance, especially if tests cover the same material as said problem sets.

First, let me repeat what others have said: make an appointment with someone at mental health services ASAP. If five different people are telling you your reaction is worrisome and you should get some help before you do anything rash, trust us that there is something to it. What you wrote here are not the words of a person who is in a position to make a decision about dropping out; they are the words of someone who took a wrong turn somewhere and could use a hand getting back on track. You owe it to yourself to do that, so you know that whatever decision you make down the line will have been made for the right reasons. 

Second, there is no such thing as skills vanishing! You are being challenged, and it may perhaps take you longer than others to adjust and succeed in this class. Or, maybe it's even true that this class is hard for you and/or is not your thing. So what? There will be other classes you excel at. A PhD is NOT about being successful in all your classes. It's about doing research. 

Do NOT drop out before even completing one semester. Do NOT give up. Get help. Talk to the professor about possibly redoing the assignments or doing something else to up your scores. Ask what specifically you can do to improve your work. Absolutely no one wants you to psych yourself out so much that you drop out over grades in a first semester class. Do it before it gets any worse, because I guarantee you that your professors want to help, they just don't know yet that there's a problem. If you have an advisor, consider talking to him/her about how to cope with this class and with the stress of graduate school more generally. If you have friends or senior students around that you trust, talk to them, too. As TakeruK says -- and this is very important -- EVERYONE has these moments. Adjusting to graduate school takes time, and everyone at some point will compare themselves to others and feel like they are not doing enough. Seriously, this is so common I have already ranted about it on the gradcafe multiple times. I don't want to do it again here so I will just say this briefly: everyone struggles with something. Everyone sometimes feels like they are not doing as well as everyone around them. Even the most successful people out there have these moments, and believe it or not, they also compare themselves to you. You have to give it time. You have to trust that you were admitted into your program because you absolutely CAN do it. And you have to seek help, because doing it all alone isn't always the best solution.

[Catria]

Second, there is no such thing as skills vanishing! You are being challenged, and it may perhaps take you longer than others to adjust and succeed in this class. Or, maybe it's even true that this class is hard for you and/or is not your thing. So what? There will be other classes you excel at. A PhD is NOT about being successful in all your classes. It's about doing research. 

Do NOT drop out before even completing one semester. Do NOT give up. Get help. Talk to the professor about possibly redoing the assignments or doing something else to up your scores. Ask what specifically you can do to improve your work. Absolutely no one wants you to psych yourself out so much that you drop out over grades in a first semester class. Do it before it gets any worse, because I guarantee you that your professors want to help, they just don't know yet that there's a problem. If you have an advisor, consider talking to him/her about how to cope with this class and with the stress of graduate school more generally. If you have friends or senior students around that you trust, talk to them, too. As TakeruK says -- and this is very important -- EVERYONE has these moments. Adjusting to graduate school takes time, and everyone at some point will compare themselves to others and feel like they are not doing enough. Seriously, this is so common I have already ranted about it on the gradcafe multiple times. I don't want to do it again here so I will just say this briefly: everyone struggles with something. Everyone sometimes feels like they are not doing as well as everyone around them. Even the most successful people out there have these moments, and believe it or not, they also compare themselves to you. You have to give it time. You have to trust that you were admitted into your program because you absolutely CAN do it. And you have to seek help, because doing it all alone isn't always the best solution.

Except that grades in coursework, along with written comps scores, will (partially) determine what advisors you may have access to for research... research may feel so distant to me now, but if I stayed, I will have to live through at least two years (and that's assuming no retakes of coursework whatsoever, which probably will happen, if only that one course) of that sort of nightmares.

If I drop out, however, my understanding would be that I should never attempt to earn a PhD ever again, because I know the issues will resurface at one point until the end of the coursework.

Plus the primary things other people in the program would compare to me by now would be my transparency in the face of hardship and, to a lesser extent, how I seem to start homework before everyone else does. Classmates, senior students seem so opaque about that stuff... and my professors have been of little help thus far beyond the specifics of the assignments themselves, including their underlying material. They said that they weren't good resources for non-academic troubles caused by assignments.

[fuzzylogician]

What we are advocating for is not two more years (or even one more semester) of suffering, but that you seek out professional help to get you to a place where you're not in this existential crisis anymore. Your professors are indeed not mental health professionals, but Psycherd12 gave you the information above about who to contact at your school. 

[GeoDUDE!]

Catria,

read this : http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/the-myth-of-im-bad-at-math/280914/

Plenty of dumb people finish graduate school (not suggesting you are one). A PhD doesn't mean you are a genius. 

[TakeruK]

Except that grades in coursework, along with written comps scores, will (partially) determine what advisors you may have access to for research... research may feel so distant to me now, but if I stayed, I will have to live through at least two years (and that's assuming no retakes of coursework whatsoever, which probably will happen, if only that one course) of that sort of nightmares.

If I drop out, however, my understanding would be that I should never attempt to earn a PhD ever again, because I know the issues will resurface at one point until the end of the coursework.

Plus the primary things other people in the program would compare to me by now would be my transparency in the face of hardship and, to a lesser extent, how I seem to start homework before everyone else does. Classmates, senior students seem so opaque about that stuff... and my professors have been of little help thus far beyond the specifics of the assignments themselves, including their underlying material. They said that they weren't good resources for non-academic troubles caused by assignments.

I understand that you are feeling like this is now destined but it is not! Yes, what you are saying is true---everything is related to each other a little bit, but it is akin to saying that because you missed one payment on your phone bill, your credit rating is now ruined forever and you will never be able to get a mortgage and thus you'll be homeless in the future. You're really stretching it when you say this next homework assignment will have this much influence! 

To me, what it sounds like is that you are experiencing a lot of self-doubt in your ability to keep up with the program. I think you really need to talk to someone, as soon as possible. Resources as suggested by Psycherd12 would be a really really good idea. A lot of students in universities seek this kind of help. Did you know that 1 in 5 students in the United States have used counseling services to help them through tough times? Graduate schools invest money into these resources for their students for a reason!

Please do speak to someone soon. If you cannot speak to a counselor, is there someone you trust at the current school or elsewhere? I agree that professors are not a good resource right at this moment (but you should talk to them later on in order to figure out what you can do in the future). I made close friends in undergrad and we went to different places for grad schools (or non grad school paths). Skyping or emailing them helped keep me grounded in my first semester of grad school too. I think it's especially nice to talk to someone who isn't a graduate student to help keep everything in perspective. 

At this point, I see how 2 more years of struggling through coursework with this crisis sounds terrible. But there are lots of people and resources on campus that will help you so that you can remove yourself from the crisis and then you will be able to be your full graduate student potential! Let them help you.

[knp]

Here are some small resources I often forget, but might be helpful in getting to the point of picking up the phone and calling the counseling service.

Encouragement:

http://thenicestplaceontheinter.net/

http://calmingmanatee.com/1

• You can refresh for more, although in the past year they've added some ones I find very unhelpful. So start with this one. The amount of time I have spent weeping at a manatee on a screen when life is overwhelming is...a lot. But it helps, so I have no shame at this, and neither should you.

http://emergencycompliment.com/#

Calm:

http://www.calm.com/

http://naturesoundsfor.me/

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/listen-to-the-most-relaxing-song-ever-170097

Not really in either category, but this site works like a good friend that talks you through it, with sort of a neuro- bent to understanding the different responses stress is causing in your brain:

http://www.relaxonline.me.uk/sa1/index.html

Warm wishes! We're just strangers on the internet, but we do care about you.

[GradSchoolTruther]

Talk to someone, but also don't discount leaving the program. It's not worth several years of stress and potential breakdowns if you are struggling. No shame in getting out sooner rather than later if you decide a Ph.D. is not for you..

[Catria]

Being an average student (or somewhat above average at best) in PhD classes really means very little when everyone used to be high-achieving as undergrads. Virtually everyone in my entering year at my current program was a top-20% undergraduate, and about half the people I know were top-10%. (It does feel, in terms of peers, almost as if I was at some top-20 school outside the top-10, which all seem to induce some significant "funnel effects")

Catria,

read this : http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/the-myth-of-im-bad-at-math/280914/

Plenty of dumb people finish graduate school (not suggesting you are one). A PhD doesn't mean you are a genius. 

The dumb people I know that can still finish grad school are, on the other hand, rather hard-working... to various extents of course.

I understand that you don't need to be a genius to earn a PhD, however.

Talk to someone, but also don't discount leaving the program. It's not worth several years of stress and potential breakdowns if you are struggling. No shame in getting out sooner rather than later if you decide a Ph.D. is not for you..

I'm almost sure that it will get better once the coursework is over... then again, most students, if they came to a PhD program for the right reasons, will likely feel that way as well. 

[lostongilligansisle]

I hope you are feeling better since last week, Catria, and that you have talked to or will soon talk with a counselor. I got a sense of terror and panic from your post, but it could just be me... because I have been exactly where you are: performing below (your own) expectations in the first semester of a PhD program in physics. I had a lot of doubts well before starting my program, and that played a large part in my decision to quit grad school after the first semester. I'm not here advocating that you quit. I'm here because you wrote this: 

If I drop out, however, my understanding would be that I should never attempt to earn a PhD ever again, because I know the issues will resurface at one point until the end of the coursework.

Please don't believe this! After I dropped out of grad school, I went on to have some interesting jobs and experiences I never would have had, if I had stayed in grad school. In hindsight, I came to realize that I just wasn't ready for grad school back then, and that I was doing it because I felt I had to, to be the person I expected myself to be. Anyway, it changed me a lot as a person, and issues I had then did not stay with me forever.

And guess what? I'm now back in grad school, in a PhD program in chemistry (more diverse job opportunities than physics, IMO), and I love it! Grad school is an entirely different experience this time, in large part because I am a different person. It's possible you could continue to have the chain-reaction problems, even after years, but I don't think it's your unchangeable destiny. I really think a counselor could help you with breaking the "chain" when set backs occur. I think that's one of the reasons I quit -- my thoughts were very much like yours, that it was going to be a downward spiral I could never recover from. Still, I don't regret dropping out then; that was the right choice for me at the time.

You have your own decision to make,  but at least see the semester through, if you mentally and emotionally can, and put off making the decision until after this 1st semester is over and you've had a chance to talk with supportive people about what you are going through.

I don't know what you will decide, but if you do choose to leave your program, don't beat yourself up about it. Look at it this way: many people try and fail doing things far less challenging than what you are doing. Some don't even get the opportunity to try. If you are going to "fail" (whatever that means to you), then you might as well fail trying to do something amazing!

And if grad school doesn't work out for you now, it doesn't mean you can never go back.

Best of luck to you!

[Catria]

And this stat-mech midterm has brought me back to square 1... but, with a 79% (and the average being in the ~80-85% range) perhaps it would be best to withdraw from that particular course rather than the entire program, however. Still I feel I am out of place in a PhD once again...

[TakeruK]

1 minute ago, Catria said:

And this stat-mech midterm has brought me back to square 1... but, with a 79% (and the average being in the ~80-85% range) perhaps it would be best to withdraw from that particular course rather than the entire program, however. Still I feel I am out of place in a PhD once again...

I know that it is not a good feeling to be on the lower side of the average, especially when you have succeeded much more in the past to get here. But, by definition, you know that about half of the class will be below the average. If everyone who was below 80% dropped the course, the average would then shift. Then, would those below the new average also drop the course? Eventually there would only be one student left.

The point of graduate courses is not to be the top of the class. It's not even meaningful to avoid being the bottom of the class. The main goal is to learn important concepts relevant to your research (the amount of such concepts will vary on your research)! 

Have you talked to therapists or other supporters since your first post? If not, please take the time to take care of yourself and do so. I know that you know that ultimately, what is important is what physics you are able to learn and apply to your research, not just relative standings between you and your classmates. But even if you know this, it's hard to live with that mindset, especially since a lot of schooling is all about grades. A good support system can help.

[GradSchoolTruther]

To be more precise, half the class will be below the median. :)

[GeoDUDE!]

Fwiw, my lowest grades in grad school have been in my field of study (earth sciences you study many things, so I've had to take non geophysics courses), I tend to get Bs in my advisor's classes. It might be different in physics programs, but no one really cares about class grades unless you are hovering around the 3.0 mark.... even a 3.2 is not really reason to be concerned. 

[Catria]

I would expect the median to also fall within that range (~80-85%). Except that I now rue the day that I first had that crazy idea that I would have what it takes to succeed... now I know I don't (if only psychologically) and I hate myself so much by now, so much so that I even think teaching some kids with learning disabilities would beat my current predicament (I actually thought of that as a backup plan if I gave up on physics as an undergrad since I knew the subject matter would probably play a major role in why I would have been unhappy with it back then)... and Jackson will only make it worse next semester, if I somehow stay beyond this semester.

Also the only thing I could possibly have fooled the adcoms about is the very issue I am complaining about: mental health concerns...

One last thing: is it advisable to be sent back to undergrad-level stat-mech due to the issues I'm having, and the concerns I have regarding the second half of the course?

Edited November 4, 2015 by Catria

[TakeruK]

3 hours ago, Catria said:

I would expect the median to also fall within that range (~80-85%). Except that I now rue the day that I first had that crazy idea that I would have what it takes to succeed... now I know I don't (if only psychologically) and I hate myself so much by now, so much so that I even think teaching some kids with learning disabilities would beat my current predicament (I actually thought of that as a backup plan if I gave up on physics as an undergrad since I knew the subject matter would probably play a major role in why I would have been unhappy with it back then)... and Jackson will only make it worse next semester, if I somehow stay beyond this semester.

Also the only thing I could possibly have fooled the adcoms about is the very issue I am complaining about: mental health concerns...

One last thing: is it advisable to be sent back to undergrad-level stat-mech due to the issues I'm having, and the concerns I have regarding the second half of the course?

First, scoring below the median does not mean that you do not have what it takes to succeed. Everyone in my current cohort (4th year) right now is on track to succeed and by definition, half of them scored below the median. Also, even the students that I knew in the past that did not succeed were not necessarily scoring below the median. Coursework does not matter nearly as much as you are emphasizing.

Regarding undergrad level stat mech, this is definitely over-reacting. 79% in a class with median at 80%-85% is a good score. It is very unlikely that based on this test, you will be asked to be sent back in this way. You should wait and see how the course and semester ends before thinking about what your next steps should be. It is far worse now for you to drop the course than to finish and see what the final mark is. If it's not a passing grade, then you will be able to talk with the professor and advisor to determine the next steps. However, since many classes are scored in a relative way, everything so far sounds like you will be receiving a passing mark (and it will be a strong pass, not a "pity pass"). You are doing well.

[fuzzylogician]

3 hours ago, Catria said:

I would expect the median to also fall within that range (~80-85%). Except that I now rue the day that I first had that crazy idea that I would have what it takes to succeed... now I know I don't (if only psychologically) and I hate myself so much by now, so much so that I even think teaching some kids with learning disabilities would beat my current predicament (I actually thought of that as a backup plan if I gave up on physics as an undergrad since I knew the subject matter would probably play a major role in why I would have been unhappy with it back then)... and Jackson will only make it worse next semester, if I somehow stay beyond this semester.

Also the only thing I could possibly have fooled the adcoms about is the very issue I am complaining about: mental health concerns...

You are having so many negative thoughts, you are pushing yourself into a downward spiral. I absolutely hope you are seeking help from mental health services at your university to deal with it. You can have severe anxiety and be successful, and you can have serious doubts about your abilities and be successful. I repeat, you can be successful. But you have to fight and you have to want to work on yourself and get past this. And you need help to do it. I hope you are getting it.  

[Catria]

On 11/4/2015, 12:58:49, fuzzylogician said:

You are having so many negative thoughts, you are pushing yourself into a downward spiral. I absolutely hope you are seeking help from mental health services at your university to deal with it. You can have severe anxiety and be successful, and you can have serious doubts about your abilities and be successful. I repeat, you can be successful. But you have to fight and you have to want to work on yourself and get past this. And you need help to do it. I hope you are getting it.  

DGS, mental health services both said that the stress was too intense for me to keep taking these stress-inducing courses...