Venting Thread

[Duns Eith]

47 minutes ago, ApplyingToGradSchools said:

 

Both of you make great points as to the randomness of the application process, but I do think such points shouldn't undermine a general predictability concerning the way schools make decisions. Similar to how one can distinguish a grade A paper from a grade B paper, so too can one distinguish different types of applicants from the select pool. For e.g., what makes paper 1 an A paper might be its clarity coupled with an original response, whereas what makes paper 2 an A paper is its organization and its ability to draw upon interdisciplinary research to back up a thought that is not their own. 

As for the details of the application; the point I was trying to make is that if what one would call a strong (questionable) profile (excluding the GRE scores) cannot getting into a T20, then what else is required? There seems to be something missing, and some of your suggestions have been fit, randomness and more. However, there seems to be reasonable grounds to question that such considerations are the leading factors. Even in this year's applicant pool, there have been individuals who have received multiple offers to many T10 programs. It doesn't seem random.

I sympathize.

But here's the issue: when you cut off the bottom 80%, your applicants start looking pretty dang similar. They all have great GREs, great GPA, great letters of recommendation, and the writing samples differ so widely but not much with respect to quality. Personal statements vary, but they show more clearly your goals and personality -- these really help to indicate fit within a department.

Regarding randomness:

If you have 50 people rolling dice, there are some who roll boxcars (get a bunch of offers at top-ranked programs), some who roll 7's (the most common result: a few offers, a waitlist, and plenty of rejections), and some who roll snake-eyes (get shut out). So, of course if you have more than 50 people with excellent applications and they are reporting on TGC and other places, you're going to hear of those rare cases, the exceptions. For example, a few years ago someone applied to only 10 programs and they were all top-10 programs, PGR, and got offers from all of them. Unlikely, though conditionally probable perhaps, it is statistically bound to happen eventually.

For this reason, it seems random or arbitrary, and this is not very much unlike the market as well. A VAP position may get over a hundred applications, and the search committee is forced to ask, "Who of these dozens of extremely qualified applicants do we reject? How can we reject such excellent applicants for the job?!" I have an anecdote from a professor regarding this exact situation.

And it blows that it feels, and likely is, not insignificantly random.

This is not in any way saying that the applicant pool in general is random. I'm talking about after you've effectively reduced the pool to the top 20%.

_{(50 people rolling dice is to represent crudely the top 20% across programs)}

47 minutes ago, ApplyingToGradSchools said:

But the question I had initially asked is: what is your take on asking the programs in which one has not been offered admission, for their advice on how you can improve your application? Or what could you have done differently in order to ensure entry into the program?

Go for it. The worst they can say is "Buzz off"

Edited March 6, 2017 by Turretin

[hector549]

11 minutes ago, Turretin said:

I sympathize.

But here's the issue: when you cut off the bottom 80%, your applicants start looking pretty dang similar. They all have great GREs, great GPA, great letters of recommendation, and the writing samples differ so widely but not much with respect to quality. Personal statements vary, but they show more clearly your goals and personality -- these really help to indicate fit within a department.

Regarding randomness:

If you have 200 people rolling dice, there are some who roll boxcars (get a bunch of offers at top-ranked programs), some who roll 7's (the most common result: a few offers, a waitlist, and plenty of rejections), and some who roll snake-eyes (get shut out). So, of course if you have more than 200 people applying to programs and we are reporting on TGC and other places, you're going to hear of those rare cases, the exceptions. For example, a few years ago someone applied to only 10 programs and they were all top-10 programs, PGR, and got offers from all of them. Unlikely, though conditionally probable perhaps, it is statistically bound to happen eventually.

For this reason, it seems random or arbitrary, and this is not very much unlike the market as well. A VAP position may get over a hundred applications, and the search committee is forced to ask, "Who of these dozens of extremely qualified applicants do we reject? How can we reject such excellent applicants for the job?!" I have an anecdote from a professor regarding this exact situation.

And it blows that it feels, and likely is, not insignificantly random.

This is not in any way saying that the applicant pool in general is random. I'm talking about after you've effectively reduced the pool to the top 20%.

Go for it. The worst they can say is "Buzz off"

I think this makes so much sense. If I've learned anything from reading many, many old threads on this site, and from my own application process, it's that different members of admissions committees weigh different aspects of an application differently. If you've strived to make every aspect of your application as strong as possible, all that's left is to apply as widely as you can afford (with respect to programs that are a fit for your interests), roll those dice, and hope for the best. And if you get snake eyes, roll again next time.

Edited March 6, 2017 by hector549

[Nichi]

On 3/5/2017 at 7:26 PM, ApplyingToGradSchools said:

My GRE scores were terrible (154/144/4.5), but could this really have outweighed all other aspects of my application? 

There is the randomness factor involved, but I wouldn't discount this. For two reasons.

One, I've heard of applications being more or less tossed from the start if the GREs are bad. When there's a ton of applications to read through, easy ways to cut out the apparently unqualified are always tempting. 

Two, similarly but less severely, the scores are often seen first and color the rest of the application. Even if unconsciously, the applicant with the low score is likely going to be read less charitably. Of course many schools have some sort of anonymization in the reading of other pieces of the file so this wouldn't be a factor for them. At the same time, standardized tests are used in large part because things like GPA and how well your letter writers compare you to your peers will be total variable on how your program is. (Granted, if you're going to a T10 program then perhaps this isn't so much a worry for you as it is for people from no-name schools.)

[Coconuts&Chloroform]

Well, I solicited a decision from NYU, from which I presumed I was rejected, and was told that decisions were ongoing and would be released by mid-March. So for all those of us still waiting, there's a chance.

[Dysexlia]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

Well, I solicited a decision from NYU, from which I presumed I was rejected, and was told that decisions were ongoing and would be released by mid-March. So for all those of us still waiting, there's a chance.

I want to upvote you but I ran out of upvotes today!

[eigenname]

16 minutes ago, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

Well, I solicited a decision from NYU, from which I presumed I was rejected, and was told that decisions were ongoing and would be released by mid-March. So for all those of us still waiting, there's a chance.

I don't know - wait lists and acceptances both seem to have gone out. My guess is that they don't want people all soliciting emails from them like the last few years (one guy solicits, everyone else starts doing it - probably gets annoying for them). Maybe I am just pessimistic One can always hope! 

Edited March 9, 2017 by eigenname

[Coconuts&Chloroform]

7 minutes ago, eigenname said:

I don't know - wait lists and acceptances both seem to have gone out. My guess is that they don't want people all soliciting emails from them like the last few years (one guy solicits, everyone else starts doing it - probably gets annoying for them). Maybe I am just pessimistic One can always hope! 

Well, I was told that decisions were ongoing, not just that decisions would not yet be released. So if this phrasing is deliberate, and they're not lying, then I think they must still be making some final decisions. Or so I hope, anyway.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Coconuts&Chloroform

[eigenname]

1 minute ago, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

Well, I was told that decisions were ongoing, not just that decisions would not yet be released. So if this phrasing is deliberate, and they're not lying, then I think they must be still making some final decisions. Or so I hope, anyway.

We only have to wait a week anyway  I hope someone hears good news! 

[JurisPrudence]

1 hour ago, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

Well, I solicited a decision from NYU, from which I presumed I was rejected, and was told that decisions were ongoing and would be released by mid-March. So for all those of us still waiting, there's a chance.

Thanks for checking. I choose to take them at their word. Best of luck to all!

[pandabearfz]

Hi guys,

Congratulations for those who have already been accepted!!!!!

This season I have already received seven rejections and there are eight remaining. However, seven of the remaining programs have already sent out acceptance and/or waitlist so that I thought I can only get rejections from them. So it seems like there is no hope for me in this season. 

But I have a question and I wish to hear what you guys say. There is one program that I am very interested in. But the PhD acceptance and waitlist has already been sent out. It even sent out several MA acceptance, though unfunded. I was wondering is it possible for me to ask them to consider me into their MA program? If so, what is the suitable time to ask? (Since no rejections for both PhD and MA has been released.) 

Thank you very much and best wishes for all of you!

[sleepingsusurrus]

Alright, Tulane... it's 9 am in Nola... 

[753982]

Hoping Rutgers sends out rejections today. 

[Franzkafka]

9 hours ago, pandabearfz said:

Hi guys,

Congratulations for those who have already been accepted!!!!!

This season I have already received seven rejections and there are eight remaining. However, seven of the remaining programs have already sent out acceptance and/or waitlist so that I thought I can only get rejections from them. So it seems like there is no hope for me in this season. 

But I have a question and I wish to hear what you guys say. There is one program that I am very interested in. But the PhD acceptance and waitlist has already been sent out. It even sent out several MA acceptance, though unfunded. I was wondering is it possible for me to ask them to consider me into their MA program? If so, what is the suitable time to ask? (Since no rejections for both PhD and MA has been released.) 

Thank you very much and best wishes for all of you!

It is suitable. I did that two years ago and was accepted into two MA.

[Duns Eith]

If you are going to, send such notice right way. The adcomms would prefer to have that information on the front end, but they may run out of offers already. So make sure they know you are willing to be considered for each.

[duran0]

On 3/5/2017 at 5:26 PM, ApplyingToGradSchools said:

My GRE scores were terrible (154/144/4.5), but could this really have outweighed all other aspects of my application? 

I'm not in philosophy, so hope it's OK to interject -- but these scores are so low that they definitely outweigh other aspects of an application. I'm a PhD student in the humanities who served as grad student rep for the admissions committee in my department last year. A GRE score under 200 - especially if the overall GPA is as middling as yours - is a huge problem because of the risk that the Graduate Division would reject the applicant for crucial division-wide funding. Top programs have enough applicants with high GRE scores that there is absolutely no reason to take this risk (especially in this financial climate!). Our university has a T20 philosophy program and while I can't say for sure, I imagine that they are beholden to similar funding limitations when it comes to GRE scores. 

Also, I want to echo what others have said about the randomness of the process...so random that I feel quite fortunate to have been accepted in the first place!

[Ibycus]

1 hour ago, duran0 said:

I'm not in philosophy, so hope it's OK to interject -- but these scores are so low that they definitely outweigh other aspects of an application. I'm a PhD student in the humanities who served as grad student rep for the admissions committee in my department last year. A GRE score under 200 - especially if the overall GPA is as middling as yours - is a huge problem because of the risk that the Graduate Division would reject the applicant for crucial division-wide funding. Top programs have enough applicants with high GRE scores that there is absolutely no reason to take this risk (especially in this financial climate!). Our university has a T20 philosophy program and while I can't say for sure, I imagine that they are beholden to similar funding limitations when it comes to GRE scores. 

Also, I want to echo what others have said about the randomness of the process...so random that I feel quite fortunate to have been accepted in the first place!

To be fair, a 154/144 is still well over 200. I suppose you meant 300? 

[Dysexlia]

Ok, question for everyone, and I am sure this has been talked about on this forum before, but: how long is it appropriate to wait before soliciting a response from a particular department if you know that others have already gotten responses from them, and you have other offers that you are seriously considering but would reject, if you got into said school?

Edited March 10, 2017 by Dysexlia
typo

[To φ or not to φ]

21 minutes ago, Dysexlia said:

Ok, question for everyone, and I am sure this has been talked about on this forum before, but: how long is it appropriate to wait before soliciting a response from a particular department if you know that others have already gotten responses from them, and you have other offers that you are seriously considering but would reject, if you got into said school?

Not sure what's appropriate but I'm trying to wait until March 15.

[Dialectica]

10 minutes ago, To φ or not to φ said:

Not sure what's appropriate but I'm trying to wait until March 15.

I think that's wise. Around mid-March seems reasonable to me, especially as we are supposed to make final decisions by April 15th, planning the next 5-7 years of our lives. 

[Dysexlia]

19 minutes ago, Dialectica said:

I think that's wise. Around mid-March seems reasonable to me, especially as we are supposed to make final decisions by April 15th, planning the next 5-7 years of our lives. 

Yeah, I am in at Brandeis (MA) and got my notification on Wednesday but they are only giving us 3 weeks to decide which makes me especially nervous because I think I might be on at least 1 invisible wait-list.

I think I am going to wait two weeks, and then just ask everywhere that I haven't heard from.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Dysexlia
added to response.

[Dialectica]

10 minutes ago, Dysexlia said:

Yeah, I am in at Brandeis (MA) and got my notification on Wednesday but they are only giving us 3 weeks to decide which makes me especially nervous because I think I might be on at least 1 invisible wait-list.

I think I am going to wait two weeks, and then just ask everywhere that I haven't heard from.

 

I think that's reasonable. I would even think, given that you only have 3 weeks, that waiting just one week is reasonable. And there are likely a good handful of others sending similar emails, so you aren't alone; I wouldn't worry that it would have a negative effect on your chances of admissions or anything like that. They understand this is a huge decision that is being made under a strict time constraint. 

[sleepingsusurrus]

25 minutes ago, Dysexlia said:

Yeah, I am in at Brandeis (MA) and got my notification on Wednesday but they are only giving us 3 weeks to decide which makes me especially nervous because I think I might be on at least 1 invisible wait-list.

I think I am going to wait two weeks, and then just ask everywhere that I haven't heard from.

 

I think they are asking to let them know what we think in 3 weeks, but they said that we can take more time if we need it. At least that's what my email said. 

[Dysexlia]

58 minutes ago, sleepingsusurrus said:

I think they are asking to let them know what we think in 3 weeks, but they said that we can take more time if we need it. At least that's what my email said. 

Ah! I just re-read my email and you are correct!

Thanks for pointing that out. I did not read it carefully because I was really excited, I think.

That actually solves my problem!

[sleepingsusurrus]

14 minutes ago, Dysexlia said:

Ah! I just re-read my email and you are correct!

Thanks for pointing that out. I did not read it carefully because I was really excited, I think.

That actually solves my problem!

 

Good! Perhaps we will end both end up there. Good luck with your decision making

[Coconuts&Chloroform]

3 hours ago, Dysexlia said:

Ok, question for everyone, and I am sure this has been talked about on this forum before, but: how long is it appropriate to wait before soliciting a response from a particular department if you know that others have already gotten responses from them, and you have other offers that you are seriously considering but would reject, if you got into said school?

There are two relevant conditions here, IMO:

1) It's at least a week into March when you intend to solicit.

2) Decisions were released no later than a week before you intend to solicit.

(1) is satisfied, so if (2) is, as well, I'd say go ahead.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Coconuts&Chloroform