Venting Thread

[FEB]

20 hours ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

Same thing happened for me at Western Ontario. Does anybody pay to get the premium features? I wonder if they are worth it. 

I don't think you need to pay for premium. You can kind of figure out the "role" and "university" from the blurry text. (Possible "roles" include "Graduate Student", "Faculty Member", "Undergraduate", and some others.) And the university name should be easy to figure out, in conjunction with the location.

Here's mine. It's easy to see that the university is "University of California Los Angeles". I'm not exactly sure what the role is. But I'm guessing it's "Department Member"?

[Ibycus]

2 hours ago, FEB said:

I don't think you need to pay for premium. You can kind of figure out the "role" and "university" from the blurry text. (Possible "roles" include "Graduate Student", "Faculty Member", "Undergraduate", and some others.) And the university name should be easy to figure out, in conjunction with the location.

Here's mine. It's easy to see that the university is "University of California Los Angeles". I'm not exactly sure what the role is. But I'm guessing it's "Department Member"?

ENHANCE

[753982]

I was leaning towards doing an MA, but this application process has me thinking that if I get a PhD offer I should definitely take it.

[Duns Eith]

1 minute ago, 753982 said:

I was leaning towards doing an MA, but this application process has me thinking that if I get a PhD offer I should definitely take it.

Yes. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Don't do an MA if you have an offer for a PhD with funding: even at an unranked school, do the PhD. You may get an offer, you might get shut out. You definitely would be out $800-$2,200 + a ton of stress just for another chance. Not worth it.

[eigenname]

4 hours ago, Dialectica said:

How has nothing happened yet? This is ridiculous. 

Anyone willing to act as a liaison for us? One could contact programs and ask when they plan to release decisions (whether that be acceptances, waitlists, or rejections). 

Saw that you applied to USC and MIT - me too! They should be out by now but it's basically deafening silence...

[Ibycus]

How I feel while waiting to hear from three-quarters of the places I applied: 

 

[mano]

still haven't heard back from UCLA. anyone in the same boat?

[Sam Anscombe]

7 minutes ago, eigenname said:

Saw that you applied to USC and MIT - me too! They should be out by now but it's basically deafening silence...

 

USC isn't too late (they've released on February 23 and February 24 in past years, but earlier the last two years). Last year, MIT made their initial phone calls on Wednesday, February 24th, which is the latest they have released decisions since 2012. And since 2012, the first decisions have always been released on a Wednesday (except for one year). I would be surprised if no one heard from MIT by the end of the week.

But, I could be wrong since this cycle is full of surprises with Pittsburgh (which at least has a pretty big range of past release dates, to be fair), Toronto, and Indiana all being quite late. We can only hope that there will be an influx of decisions in the near future. 

[eigenname]

13 minutes ago, Sam Anscombe said:

USC isn't too late (they've released on February 23 and February 24 in past years, but earlier the last two years). Last year, MIT made their initial phone calls on Wednesday, February 24th, which is the latest they have released decisions since 2012. And since 2012, the first decisions have always been released on a Wednesday (except for one year). I would be surprised if no one heard from MIT by the end of the week.

But, I could be wrong since this cycle is full of surprises with Pittsburgh (which at least has a pretty big range of past release dates, to be fair), Toronto, and Indiana all being quite late. We can only hope that there will be an influx of decisions in the near future. 

Just saw a USC acceptance via phone on FB ... whelp. 

[Nichi]

Regarding USC: I also saw the phone call. Only one thus far, so my hope still burns.

Regarding PhD vs MA: Yeah, I don't see much of an advantage to going for the MA first if your goal is the PhD unless you can't get into a PhD program.

Also being in one PhD program for awhile and then trying to move up is a valid move. _{(Though I'll note in case any admissions people are reading this that I have no intention of doing so...but I'm guessing top 20 programs aren't worried about that anyway....)}

[To φ or not to φ]

17 hours ago, Turretin said:

Yes. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Don't do an MA if you have an offer for a PhD with funding: even at an unranked school, do the PhD. You may get an offer, you might get shut out. You definitely would be out $800-$2,200 + a ton of stress just for another chance. Not worth it.

But what if it's an MA program with a fantastic placement record? 

[Schopenhauerfanboy]

18 hours ago, 753982 said:

I was leaning towards doing an MA, but this application process has me thinking that if I get a PhD offer I should definitely take it.

I'm in favour of doing an MA first unless you get a really attractive PhD offer. 
Main reasons:
1) Meaningfully expanding your network of contacts through being affiliated with 3 institutions instead of 2. 
2) There's some MA-specific federal scholarships (at least in Canada) that can make you a lot more competitive for PhD programs.
3) More time to improve your C.V. and writing sample (unless you're exceptionally precocious and have a top-notch sample by the end of undergrad) -- I had one of my undergrad papers published in a peer-reviewed journal, but it still wasn't --to my judgement-- good enough to compete with the samples of people who've done an MA.
4) Gives you more time for language study (especially 2-year, funded MA programs). In the second year you literally only have TA duties and the thesis to write, so there's ample opportunity to improve on a reading language.
5) Professionalization through presenting at conferences, involvement in student government, and so on. 
6) Get letters from professors who are considerably more well connected than your undergrad profs. 

My list could go on, but I see a lot of value in doing an M.A. before the PhD, unless you get into a program that you'd be happy to get into at the end of your MA anyways..

[Big Ariana]

18 hours ago, Turretin said:

Yes. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Don't do an MA if you have an offer for a PhD with funding: even at an unranked school, do the PhD. You may get an offer, you might get shut out. You definitely would be out $800-$2,200 + a ton of stress just for another chance. Not worth it.

Idk, I think it depends on what your background in philosophy is, the placement record of the MA, and what your goals for admissions are. If you went to a school with a graduate program in philosophy, took more than the minimum required phil classes for the major and got what you believe to be solid letters from at least moderately established faculty, then it's probably wise to believe that an MA won't help your chances a ton.

But if you went somewhere, say, where taking graduate-level courses wasn't an opportunity, then right off the bat there's a question mark on your file as to whether you can handle graduate level coursework. This doesn't mean that just going to any MA guarantees a better offer. But you might think that going to Tufts, NIU, UWM something in that caliber and maintaining a 4.0 will give you a very significant leg up in at least that one respect. And if you go to a two year program, it's hard to imagine your eventual writing sample won't be greatly improved, and your personal statement more focused, etc. 

The placement records of schools in the 30-50 range of the PGR are significantly better than a lot of the unranked programs, at least for most specialties. If you're concerned about the placement record of the unranked PhD program you got into, then even if you don't think an MA is going to get you into NYU, you might still think that the tangible advantages that come from doing well in a good MA will make you a much more competitive applicant for schools with better placement records.  

An important question is, do you think you will excel at the MA? Hopefully you do and hopefully you will, but a lot of the students at these places are applying to the same programs, and most don't already have offers from (unranked) PhD institutions, so there's good reason to think that playing it safe is preferable.

[Duns Eith]

53 minutes ago, To φ or not to φ said:

But what if it's an MA program with a fantastic placement record? 

Where are we talking? Tufts? NIU?

Let me deflate some of this. It isn't like Top-30 is a reach (top-5 are lotteries), but if you get an MA then top 5 is a reach (there is no lottery). Rather, the benefits of the MA are largely covered by @Schopenhauerfanboy; but odds are, if you could get into a top-10 school after an MA then you were something special before the MA to begin with.

For example, I got into several MA's in the first round, waitlisted at a PhD and rejected at another. But someone else, quite comparable, actually, applied to 3x as many programs (a lot more PhDs) and got a funded PhD offer. I bet if I had applied to more places I would've simply been admitted to a PhD program the first round. Well, live and learn.

12 minutes ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

I'm in favour of doing an MA first unless you get a really attractive PhD offer. 
Main reasons:
1) Meaningfully expanding your network of contacts through being affiliated with 3 institutions instead of 2. 
2) There's some MA-specific federal scholarships (at least in Canada) that can make you a lot more competitive for PhD programs.
3) More time to improve your C.V. and writing sample (unless you're exceptionally precocious and have a top-notch sample by the end of undergrad) -- I had one of my undergrad papers published in a peer-reviewed journal, but it still wasn't --to my judgement-- good enough to compete with the samples of people who've done an MA.
4) Gives you more time for language study (especially 2-year, funded MA programs). In the second year you literally only have TA duties and the thesis to write, so there's ample opportunity to improve on a reading language.
5) Professionalization through presenting at conferences, involvement in student government, and so on. 
6) Get letters from professors who are considerably more well connected than your undergrad profs. 

My list could go on, but I see a lot of value in doing an M.A. before the PhD, unless you get into a program that you'd be happy to get into at the end of your MA anyways..

I agree, but my standard of "really attractive" would be Top-50 (PGR, english speaking world) with full funding. My guess is that if you're getting an offer at a #40 PGR, then getting an MA first won't change that as drastically as expecting an offer at a top-10. Outside of the top-15, I would say that the differences in quality of program diminish rapidly.

(FYI: I hate these rankings, but they are the closest proxy we have)

[Duns Eith]

I think I will back-pedal and say that "even at an unranked school" was too excessive. If you have a "top ranked" MA offer with full funding (no going into any debt), and you have an unranked program (unranked, even if it is ranked on specialties?) with full funding, then you can go with the MA. You'll likely reap the benefits we've already discussed. But if you've got a ranked school with full funding, I can't think of a program that would beat that out. Like, Missouri should beat Tufts; Arizona State should be NIU.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Turretin

[Schopenhauerfanboy]

2 minutes ago, Turretin said:

Where are we talking? Tufts? NIU?

Let me deflate some of this. It isn't like Top-30 is a reach (top-5 are lotteries), but if you get an MA then top 5 is a reach (there is no lottery). Rather, the benefits of the MA are largely covered by @Schopenhauerfanboy; but odds are, if you could get into a top-10 school after an MA then you were something special before the MA to begin with.

For example, I got into several MA's in the first round, waitlisted at a PhD and rejected at another. But someone else, quite comparable, actually, applied to 3x as many programs (a lot more PhDs) and got a funded PhD offer. I bet if I had applied to more places I would've simply been admitted to a PhD program the first round. Well, live and learn.

I agree, but my standard of "really attractive" would be Top-50 (PGR, english speaking world) with full funding. My guess is that if you're getting an offer at a #40 PGR, then getting an MA first won't change that as drastically as expecting an offer at a top-10. Outside of the top-15, I would say that the differences in quality of program diminish rapidly.

(FYI: I hate these rankings, but they are the closest proxy we have)

In my case, I literally just wasn't prepared for applying to PhDs straight out of my B.A. (was getting married, etc), so I just applied to an M.A. program in my hometown. Even after that M.A., I still wasn't prepared, and I only applied to two PhD programs with late deadlines. This year, I'm finally transferring out, and got into a program that the updated PGR places in the top 40, so I am thrilled, but it really took me forever to get here. I hope I'm not an anomaly in taking forever to sort out where I want to go. I like to think it took me so long because I am young (only 25 - first year PhD), whereas many people in my cohort were a lot older, but I know it's just from needing more time to get up to a good enough level. That's why the MA was indispensible for me. 

[matchamatcha]

26 minutes ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

In my case, I literally just wasn't prepared for applying to PhDs straight out of my B.A. (was getting married, etc), so I just applied to an M.A. program in my hometown. Even after that M.A., I still wasn't prepared, and I only applied to two PhD programs with late deadlines. This year, I'm finally transferring out, and got into a program that the updated PGR places in the top 40, so I am thrilled, but it really took me forever to get here. I hope I'm not an anomaly in taking forever to sort out where I want to go. I like to think it took me so long because I am young (only 25 - first year PhD), whereas many people in my cohort were a lot older, but I know it's just from needing more time to get up to a good enough level. That's why the MA was indispensible for me. 

I relate to this.  I started my undergrad in '09 and will be starting my phd in the fall, so it took me a little while to figure this whole thing out.  I also wasn't prepared for a PhD straight out of my BA, but for me, it was because I wasn't initially a philosophy major and had written like 1 essay before switching into philosophy.  I also applied to a comfortable MA in the same institution as my BA.  I don't regret getting to work with the supervisor with whom I worked, I got to explore a topic I had been interested in since grade 11, and I actually learned how to research.  I'm still in shock that I got into Western since it's incredibly well ranked in my specific area (phil of physics), and well ranked overall, but I'd rather it have taken the 8 years that it did than have gone straight into a lower ranked phd and likely failed because I wasn't prepared.

It certainly also helped that MAs are generally funded here in Canada.  Ain't no way in hell that I'd be able to afford dragging this process out if I had to pay for my MA.

[Ibycus]

59 minutes ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

In my case, I literally just wasn't prepared for applying to PhDs straight out of my B.A. (was getting married, etc), so I just applied to an M.A. program in my hometown. Even after that M.A., I still wasn't prepared, and I only applied to two PhD programs with late deadlines. This year, I'm finally transferring out, and got into a program that the updated PGR places in the top 40, so I am thrilled, but it really took me forever to get here. I hope I'm not an anomaly in taking forever to sort out where I want to go. I like to think it took me so long because I am young (only 25 - first year PhD), whereas many people in my cohort were a lot older, but I know it's just from needing more time to get up to a good enough level. That's why the MA was indispensible for me. 

Updated PGR? Is there a newer one than the 2014-2015 version? 

[Sam Anscombe]

1 minute ago, Ibycus said:

Updated PGR? Is there a newer one than the 2014-2015 version? 

Leiter posted an estimate for 2016-17 rankings based on faculty changes. It's linked somewhere on the first page of his blog. 

[Ibycus]

9 minutes ago, Sam Anscombe said:

Leiter posted an estimate for 2016-17 rankings based on faculty changes. It's linked somewhere on the first page of his blog. 

Ah, thanks!

[Coconuts&Chloroform]

Has anyone heard anything from NYU? If past years are any indication, they should start notifying those accepted tomorrow.

[eigenname]

16 hours ago, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

Has anyone heard anything from NYU? If past years are any indication, they should start notifying those accepted tomorrow.

Awaiting any updates with bated breath...

[Glasperlenspieler]

5 minutes ago, eigenname said:

Awaiting any updates with bated breath...

I'm getting ready for my implied rejection lol

[eigenname]

Just now, Glasperlenspieler said:

I'm getting ready for my implied rejection lol

lol me too :| I suppose what I am really waiting for is other people's acceptances...

[Glasperlenspieler]

7 minutes ago, eigenname said:

lol me too :| I suppose what I am really waiting for is other people's acceptances...

Yeah, I think NYU is a long shot for pretty much everyone. But hey, someone's got to get in!