MA Rank Importance

[Scarlet A+]

How important is rank at a Masters level? As long as I'm active in conferences, publishing, and finding a big name mentor, does MA rank really matter that much to get into a wonderful PhD program later on?

I visited University of Alabama and fell in love. At least one funded conference a semester, Trudier Harris as a mentor, cheap living with a nice stipend, and my partner got in fully funded as well. But then a few days later I got accepted to Purdue, and while I've booked a flight to go see my options, I can't tell if considering turning down Purdue (and it's high rank and English Lit tenure-track rate) is ridiculous. On the other hand, I feel like Alabama has valued me from the beginning, and Purdue might pigeonhole me into 19th century, when I'm not sure that's what I want to do. To make matters worse, Purdue means breaking up with my partner, and while I value my future more than my present happiness/sacrifices, I can't tell if Alabama would seem so appealing without knowing I'd have the perfect life with my partner there, including being each others support systems and getting 1.5 pups. 

Basically, I know rank is essential in PhD for tenure-track jobs, but how important is the rank of the MA university to get into those great PhD programs? 

[Ramus]

6 minutes ago, Scarlet A+ said:

does MA rank really matter that much to get into a wonderful PhD program later on?

No. I did my MA at Bama and ended up at Ohio State. One of my peers in the program made the leap to Yale. The lower ranking of the program wasn't an impediment to either of our PhD applications. 

7 minutes ago, Scarlet A+ said:

Trudier Harris as a mentor

If you do anything with Af-Am and/or 20C lit, having T. Harris on your side is a major plus. (So long as you can keep up with her demands, which are high.) One of her mentees at Alabama just landed a TT at the University of Florida (yes, you read that correctly). 

[Scarlet A+]

1 minute ago, Ramus said:

One of her mentees at Alabama just landed a TT at the University of Florida (yes, you read that correctly). 

I know! I met with her when I visited. I also met another student who attended a conference in China and then received a job offer from there (which he accepted). 

[CarolineNC]

I have friends in my current program (UNC CH) who have MAs from both Purdue and Alabama. I don't really think MA rank matters as much as what you do during your MA. I got my MA from Kansas, which isn't a particularly prestigious program, but I did OK. 

Also, one of my closest friends here is the one who got her MA at Purdue, and I just want to emphasize how much she hated it there and how much she said the area sucked. I've driven through West Lafayette and can't say I was exactly charmed either. This isn't to say that Purdue isn't a great school and that lots of people don't enjoy its environs, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway. Hope this doesn't piss any Purdue people off! 

Oh, and also, I know 2 people who have worked with Trudier Harris and they're crazy about her. She has helped them out a lot, apparently, and is just wonderful in general. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by CarolineNC

[Dr. Old Bill]

44 minutes ago, Scarlet A+ said:

I visited University of Alabama and fell in love. At least one funded conference a semester, Trudier Harris as a mentor, cheap living with a nice stipend, and my partner got in fully funded as well.

...

I feel like Alabama has valued me from the beginning, and Purdue might pigeonhole me into 19th century, when I'm not sure that's what I want to do. 

Even putting aside the SO factor (which is potentially vital), I think these above sentences alone give you your answer. Go with your gut instinct. it's obvious that you're "feeling" U of A's program, and you just can't ignore that.

The bigger question of whether MA rank matters or not is open to debate, but as others have already said, it really doesn't seem to be much of a factor. Having strong recommendations from people whose work is known and respected might be a bit more important, and it sounds as though your potential mentor at U of A is a bit of an ace in that regard. It sounds to me as though you don't need to overthink this one -- go with U of A, be with your partner, and be happy!

Completely FWIW, I turned down my waitlist offer at U of A's Strode program yesterday, and I was a little sad to do so. I also got a good vibe from their program (and the Strode DGS Michelle Dowd has been wonderful to communicate with), and probably would have been happy there too...and that would have been for a Ph.D., in which rank probably does matter a bit more.

[brontebitch]

2 hours ago, Old Bill said:

Strode DGS Michelle Dowd has been wonderful to communicate with

Michelle Dowd is AMAZING - my undergrad mentor (Julie Eckerle) and her have done a lot of work together. Just wanted to second this! I have heard great things about Alabama! 

[loganondorf]

4 hours ago, CarolineNC said:

Also, one of my closest friends here is the one who got her MA at Purdue, and I just want to emphasize how much she hated it there and how much she said the area sucked. I've driven through West Lafayette and can't say I was exactly charmed either. This isn't to say that Purdue isn't a great school and that lots of people don't enjoy its environs, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway. Hope this doesn't piss any Purdue people off! 

I want to chime in here as an alternative opinion! I got my MA from Purdue as well, and I couldn't have had a better experience. I found West Lafayette cute and, relative to other towns its size, didn't feel that it was too sleepy.

This isn't to undercut or challenge CarolineNC's friend's experiences -- I'm sure a person's response to West Laffy and Purdue is a matter of personal taste and expectations. Just wanted to prove that it's possible to love it there!

[Scarlet A+]

I know I sound sappy about U of A, but I really need help being practical about this. The decisions I make about my education now will affect me for decades, and I don't want to make the more comfortable decision based on a relationship that has no guaranteed future. I have to make sure that I am picking the school because it is what's best for me academically, not emotionally. I'm strong, I can take it. 

I visit Purdue next week, and they have one of my favorite authors reading when I'm there (Margaret Atwood)! I didn't realize what a perfect fit Alabama would be for me until I visited, so I'm giving Purdue the same shot. 

That being said, I am a very Type A personality sometimes, and I made a table of the pros and cons (link at the bottom). 

I need unbiased advice, and I can't get that anywhere but here. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IJthHiD1e2tk7bNZGmc0wz4yn87i_PlQtv-0Ba2UCaw/edit?usp=sharing 

[Dr. Old Bill]

30 minutes ago, Scarlet A+ said:

I know I sound sappy about U of A, but I really need help being practical about this. The decisions I make about my education now will affect me for decades, and I don't want to make the more comfortable decision based on a relationship that has no guaranteed future. I have to make sure that I am picking the school because it is what's best for me academically, not emotionally. I'm strong, I can take it. 

I still stand by my above comments, and I don't think any of the other comments on this thread go against the "academic effect" aspect. But if you want a bit more absolutist advice (which is still, frankly, only advice)...

There are no "rankings" for M.A. programs. Remember this. No, seriously...remember this. Take it off your pro-con list, because it's completely irrelevant, as is the tenure-track information for Purdue -- that would matter if you were applying to their Ph.D. program, but you're not. When you ultimately apply to Ph.D. programs in a couple of years, you will be judged primarily on your WS, SOP, general fit with the program, and the other usual suspects that you encountered during this cycle...not so much what institution you are coming from (within reason). Neither U of A nor Purdue are unknown programs with unknown faculty, so they're essentially "equal" in a lot of ways. And so, all things being equal, why not go with the place that feels right? Feel really IS a legitimate consideration. You'll do better work if you're happy and feel supported (irrespective of the SO question). And your main POI is clearly a rock star who has been very generous with her students.

It really feels like you're trying to think of M.A. programs in the same way as you would think of Ph.D. programs, and since your long-term plan is to apply to Ph.D. programs, you can't use the same criteria to judge. You need to treat the M.A. as an intermediate step in which you can get acclimated to the level of study / writing required at the graduate level, and to make good connections with people who can help shape your future direction as a scholar. An M.A. will broaden and deepen your knowledge-base so that you are better equipped to ask more complicated questions, and go down a more nuanced path when considering Ph.D. programs. Ideally it will give you some teaching experience, and ideally it will introduce you to different academic possibilities. 

The bottom line is that you shouldn't be considering rank when choosing between the two programs. Your pro-con list seems to favor U of A, and your gut reaction is in favor of U of A. I don't think you should overthink it too much beyond that.

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Old Bill

[JessicaLange]

As an IU Hoosier, I feel compelled to agree that Purdue sucks lol. But, I'm glad you asked this question, because I've been wondering the same thing. My acceptances have big differences in rank. It was even more difficult because they're in the same city so it's more or less the same out of school experience. But, when I really looked at the programs, the lower ranked school fit my needs better (and offered more aid). Ultimately, I realized that choosing a school that will help me grow is the most important part. Rank is sort of irrelevant if you're not doing your best work or studying what you want to study. From what you've said, Alabama seems to offer the best program for you. So, visit PU and see how it feels, but Alabama seems like the right choice.

Edited March 30, 2017 by JessicaLange
something

[erosanddust]

35 minutes ago, Old Bill said:

Take it off your pro-con list, because it's completely irrelevant, as is the tenure-track information for Purdue -- that would matter if you were applying to their Ph.D. program, but you're not.

I agree with what other folks have said — U of A seems to be a much better fit for you, and the "major plus" elements you have listed at UofA will have a greater bearing on your experience as an MA student than those listed for Purdue. For example, your ability to clarify your project (eg. for an SOP), do good work (eg. for a Writing Sample), and build strong with faculty (eg. for references) will all not only create a more enriching graduate experience, but will also be a stronger asset to PhD applications than a slightly higher prestige of one school overall (which, again, is not even program-specific data).

One small note that the quoted section of Old Bill's response reminds me of — the only potentially relevant placement info is placement of MA students into PhD programs. You may have already done so, but you could always reach out to the DGS or a POI at each program and ask about how often their MA students are placed into PhD programs, and which programs they have attended. This sort of data will almost always conceal a lot of contextual information, but it could be helpful to see, for instance, if a program hasn't placed a PhD candidate in years.

[Warelin]

The only con you've listed for Alabama is "Academic: Lower Rank".

As @Old Bill has stated, there are no rankings for MA programs so those rankings are irrelevant.

As a major con you list for Purdue, you list "Potentially only 19th century" and "Happiness: No summer, Low Pay". Does that mean that you'll have no free time during the summer due to teaching or taking classes? If summers are important for you to recharge, then it is something to consider heavily.

Another thing to bear in mind is the cost of living.  Are the stipends at either location enough to cover rent, food, utilities? If not, are you comfortable sharing an apartment with a roommate? Having a significant other helps to lower the cost of these expenses. It also helps you have a support system when things get rough.

It also seems that you seem very excited about Alabama's present but not as excited by Purdue's offerings.

How do you feel about TAing your first year vs being a part of a large lecture or being a writing center tutor?

[a_sort_of_fractious_angel]

Hey! 

I didn't attend Alabama or Purdue, but I do have an M.A. And I agree that "rank" is only useful so far as it gets you - it's mostly an illusion, I think. 

I have a friend from a no-name M.A. program (a school that doesn't have a Ph.D. program in English or a reputable undergrad degree) and they are now at UPenn. I, conversely, got an M.A. at a school that has a great Ph.D. program, found myself a "big name" mentor while there, and had no luck getting into Ph.Ds last year. In short, rank doesn't matter. 

What matters are things such as: (1) is my program progressive or prescriptive? (2) is your future mentor going to support you decisions (academic, non-ac, alt-ac) in a strong way? (3) and, as cheesy as it sounds, how does the program make you feel?

Additionally, geography really matters. I'm from the northeast and I went south - I had culture shock. In doing so, I also went from a super small undergrad to a big ol' grad program. These changes influenced my work, some for better and some for worse. I liked the culture change because I learned things. I didn't love the program change because I realized that I don't function well in a social environment that is intimately related to academics. This may not bother you, but it's worth thinking about. 

I think you're leaning towards Alabama, and if that's true, I think you should go with your gut. You'll learn a tremendous amount while there - and you always have GradCafe to lean on if you feel that you're not progressing. Conferences, papers, exploration - these are key (I think) for successful work in academia, should you choose to go forward with that particular path. 

[Bumblebea]

3 hours ago, Warelin said:

As a major con you list for Purdue, you list "Potentially only 19th century" and "Happiness: No summer, Low Pay". Does that mean that you'll have no free time during the summer due to teaching or taking classes? If summers are important for you to recharge, then it is something to consider heavily.

 

I think their girlfriend is named Summer, though I could be wrong ...

Even though Alabama seems like a good place, I would urge the OP to at least go to Purdue with an open mind. OP, since you're a 19th-century Americanist, have you checked out the work of Chris Lukasik? 

Anyway, I don't think you should let being waitlisted at Purdue influence your decision too heavily. I have a few friends who turned down a better-ranked program for lesser ones because they felt "shafted" by the better program. Some later regretted letting emotions cloud their judgment. Not that rank here matters (as others have said)--but you don't want to take getting waitlisted too personally.

In any case, both seem like good options. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Bumblebea

[Bumblebea]

OP: Having looked at your list again, I might be more inclined to tell you to go to Alabama. The fact that they're not making you teach your first year but just work as a tutor instead is actually quite nice. It can be very hard to be thrown into being the sole instructor of a class in your first week of graduate school. Plus, Purdue is making you take two classes on teaching comp. Most programs require only one "teaching college English" intro class--not two. Since you're a literature person, that's one less you'll be able to take related to your interests. 

Since this is the one time when you can pick a program and NOT obsess about its rank, I would urge you to go to the program that you think will make you happy. 

[It's_LITerature]

Hi guys,

I want to study Victorian lit, specifically the gothic. I applied to University of Louisville and Purdue for MA. U of L was my fall back. I got in and I should be good with funding, and they have research opportunities and good mentorships with two Victorian professors. I originally was not going to go to U of L but I'm having second guesses. Purdue was my number one choice but I haven't heard back from them.

Do y'all know anyone else who has heard back? Should I still consider Purdue? I'm not in love with U of L but I was very impressed. I didn't do as much research as I should have when looking at programs, and I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.  

[Scarlet A+]

3 hours ago, It's_LITerature said:

Purdue was my number one choice but I haven't heard back from them.

Email Purdue. That's what I did, and that's how I found my place on the wait list, (before I got accepted a couple of weeks later through phone and email). 

[fmd]

OP: I'm a current MA in literature at Purdue. I'm leaving this year to pursue a PhD elsewhere, but I will chime in in support of Purdue's MA program. Every MA student who applied to PhD programs this year got in to at least one of their top choices. Most got multiple acceptances to top-notch programs in their field. The MA program here is great, and you will not be pigeonholed into anything, especially not in your MA. In fact, you're required to generalize.

For finances, the stipend is extremely livable since they raised it. The cost of living here is actually ridiculously cheap. I pay $500/month for a large apartment downtown, near the bars and restaurants. If the stipend isn't enough, extra tutoring and teaching opportunities abound, and I made more than $20,000 this year with my .75GTA. In my experience, it is also trivial to get conference funding.

As for the American lit academics, Purdue also has a very strong American modernism and postmodernism program. It's the home of Modern Fiction Studies. There's John Duvall, Maren Linnet, and Nancy Peterson to take classes from. If you want to go earlier than the 19th century, there's Kristina Bross (but I don't know these faculty members as well), who is widely considered a superstar teacher and mentor. What I mean to say is you are by no means stuck doing the 19th century.

The pedagogical class is kind of a pain, but it's also really helpful and doesn't take as much time as it seems like it will. Of course, you're in the belly of the beast as far as rhet/comp research goes, so you learn from the best.

I would be happy to talk to you about the program more. I'll be at the Margaret Atwood reading, too. If you want to meet for coffee when you get here, I would be happy to discuss the pros and cons with you. PM me if you want to know more.

Edited April 1, 2017 by fmd

[It's_LITerature]

On 3/31/2017 at 11:58 AM, Scarlet A+ said:

Email Purdue. That's what I did, and that's how I found my place on the wait list, (before I got accepted a couple of weeks later through phone and email). 

What did you put in the email and who did you send it to? I emailed Jill Quirks on Monday morning and I said that I'm still very interested in the program and asked about my application status. She replied Monday afternoon with "We are still in the process of making application decisions and will be through April. I’m sorry I can’t be more specific as I know this is a stressful time for everyone." So I don't even know if I'm on the wait list or not. Purdue is my number one choice and if I don't get in, I'll probably take a year off. Should I email the DGS? Should I email Jill Quirk back and ask if I can add further development to my application because since I submitted the application, I've taught multiple workshops, attended an international convention, and received an award for an honor society. I don't know what to do :(((