27 replies to this topic

[wtncffts]

So, I've recently learned that a former student of mine (as a TA) is a candidate in the federal election up here, and has some chance of winning and becoming an MP (Member of parliament). Keep in mind, I had him in 09-10 and he's still a student at that university. I have absolutely nothing against the kid; he was one of the better students in the class. But since learning of this, I can't shake the feeling that I've had off and on many times, mostly when hearing about people I knew in school (not close friends but acquaintances) who seem to be working their dream job or succeeding in what they want to do.

The feeling essentially is that I'm terribly unsuccessful and going nowhere, always in the process of getting there, but never arriving, that things, events, the world is just passing me by and I've missed whatever opportunities I may have had. I don't think it's jealousy or envy at all, in that I have absolutely no desire to run for office or to do the various other things which have sometimes prompted this feeling. That is, I'm not thinking "I wish I was in their place", but rather something like "I wish I could be succeeding as they seem to be". It is completely irrational and absurd, but it gnaws at me.

I know by any standard I'm doing well and doing what I want to do; I have an MA and will be entering a PhD program in the Fall. Still, I've been in post-secondary education now for almost 9 years, will have four or five more, at least, and have not accomplished anything I've wanted to accomplish (at least it feels that way), and seeing people of my age and younger seemingly accomplish so much has this terrible effect on me. Maybe it's also, at least this time, because I've been rather idle and unproductive the past few months while working on and then waiting for applications and results, and so I kind of feel like I'm stuck in mud. Whatever psychological neurosis is screwing with me right now, I really hope I can get over it soon.

Anyone had similar feelings? I have acknowledged how ridiculous all this is and completely accept that there are no reasonable grounds for me to feel this way, so there's no need to say it. I guess I'm kind of just hoping for some reassurance that I'm in a good place and really am going somewhere, and that others sometimes experience such absurd feelings in reaction to perceived success of others. However, if you do want to call me a whiner and other, worse, things, have at it. Maybe I do need a kick in the butt to be rid of this.

[emmm]

Well, I can't say I ever thought much about what I had accomplished compared to others. Rather, I felt that I had made choices that had, ultimately, left me in a place I didn't particularly want to remain in. Typical stay-at-home mom story -- put aside my goals to deal with raising kids. Now the kids are teens taking college classes. I felt that I had had my opportunities in life,and that I had chosen a different path. I wasn't really sure what I could do now. I was really afraid it was "too late" for me -- my hard-earned credentials were now all outdated, I didn't have much in the way of work experience, etc. Fortunately, I started taking classes and met great people who advised me not to let age, time home, or any other "excuses" keep me from whatever it might be that I wanted to do. So now I, too, am going to be starting a PhD program in the fall, and I am super excited (and more than a little terrified). I'm sure it's going to be challenging, but I have a great support network in place now, and it feels like the right thing to be doing and the right time to be doing it. Don't focus on the past -- you can't change it. You still have time to accomplish great things.

Edited by emmm, 28 April 2011 - 05:58 AM.

[therealwinster]

Wow. Both the posts have been such eye openers.

@wtncctfs

That wasn't whining and no, you don't need a kick in the butt. I say this from some of such similar instances that I came across when I read about some professors and scientists and their grad experience. It's not gonna get over just like that, and it's a natural call - the way we have natural call for hunger or thirst. Maybe it all rises from a certain emptiness. The last sentence, I should say very carefully. I guess it's just time to explore. And find out some pursuit or engagement that allows you to be in useful for the world outside. I don't mean to imply isolation, I just want to say that any means by which you feel of use and help to the society/others will always fight that emptiness and the feeling of being terribly unsuccessful. Like I said, they're just a natural call. Instead of thinking of that feeling as a whine or imperfection, think of it as a call for action.

[latte thunder]

I feel you.


I constantly fo through facebook to see where classmates are... I try to pretend like it's motivating me to be better, but it does make me feel like a failure sometimes! It's bad when you see someone else achieve their dreams but the worst is when someone is doing everything YOU want to do!

I have a HS friend, who was two years younger but one grade below (and I was already a grade ahead, so this tells you how young she is!). She went to havard and has since started her own non-profit! A non profit thats dedicated to her traveling the world on a whim to "bring awareness." This year she's been all over the US, Jamaica, vietnam, laos and thailand.


She JUST turned 22 last week. SO super jealous. All the time.


I have a few classmates that have titles like "director" or "senior partner" ... am I supposed to be there at my age?

I feel like I'm not only behind, but that I'm not even in the race! I don't even know where in the race I should be right now!

[lyonessrampant]

I feel like this sometimes too. I think we all do. I went through a small bout of depression about this a while back. I'm older to be starting a Ph.D. program (though not with teens! I so admire the second poster's story!!!), and through, well, just life and personal situations took 5 years to get my (multiple) BAs, then a year off, then an MA, then three years off, and I'll start my Ph.D. next fall. I have been involved in speech and debate for, well, over a decade, and some of the people I competed with (my own age) from high school are already doctors and have beautiful houses and lots of money. Some of the people I competed with in college got into the very top programs in their fields, even though I feel I am as strong of a candidate (may just be ego , and, both worse and great, some of the kids I've coached when they were in high school went to fabulous schools and will be at the same point on the academic track as me. At the same time, I'm enormously proud of them! Anyway, I've come to the realization that we all take our time to get where we want to be. Some people maybe "luck out" (or work or whatever) and get there faster. Some of us learn lots of other lessons along the way and have other "life" experiences that perhaps these younger success stories don't have. Anyway, try to find things you've done that you're proud about, things that aren't easily quantifiable on Facebook or something. I have an amazing partner and he, in many ways, is my success story (that sounds lame and antifeminist but I don't mean it like that). We have a great dog, I have amazing friends, I get to work with great students, I've climbed Kilimanjaro, I've had amazing travel experiences, etc. These things aren't tangible so much as "I held office at a young age. I graduated from Harvard. I make $250 K a year, etc." BUT these individual experiences, in my opinion, do as much if not more than those other things to make life meaningful. Remind yourself why you're lucky, what you've loved about your life, and it will give you more energy to start your Ph.D., work through it voraciously, and continue to succeed in your life (at least that's what I've been doing). Best of luck!

[90sNickelodeon]

It's hard because what I want is to be successful. I want a good job that pays well so that I can be financially independent. That's all. Yet it seems like I have to keep going to school in order to make that happen. Quite frankly, I have been in school all my life with only two years as a break. I feel like I need to grow up, put on the big girl pants and just get out there and work. But it isn't happening. I'm already burned out in my graduate program. I'm not even sure that this is what I want to be doing (personality-wise, I feel like I might have made a bad decision). But the thing is, I don't even know what I'm passionate about. Well, I do know what I like but a ) I'm not good enough to teach it b ) it doesn't make any money. So I understand where you are coming from. At least you have some idea of where you want to go.

[dudedolittle]

It's your life: Live it the way you want to live it and just keep your eyes on your goals.

[newms]

wtncffts, on 28 April 2011 - 05:01 AM, said:

So, I've recently learned that a former student of mine (as a TA) is a candidate in the federal election up here, and has some chance of winning and becoming an MP (Member of parliament). Keep in mind, I had him in 09-10 and he's still a student at that university. I have absolutely nothing against the kid; he was one of the better students in the class. But since learning of this, I can't shake the feeling that I've had off and on many times, mostly when hearing about people I knew in school (not close friends but acquaintances) who seem to be working their dream job or succeeding in what they want to do.

The feeling essentially is that I'm terribly unsuccessful and going nowhere, always in the process of getting there, but never arriving, that things, events, the world is just passing me by and I've missed whatever opportunities I may have had. I don't think it's jealousy or envy at all, in that I have absolutely no desire to run for office or to do the various other things which have sometimes prompted this feeling. That is, I'm not thinking "I wish I was in their place", but rather something like "I wish I could be succeeding as they seem to be". It is completely irrational and absurd, but it gnaws at me.

I know by any standard I'm doing well and doing what I want to do; I have an MA and will be entering a PhD program in the Fall. Still, I've been in post-secondary education now for almost 9 years, will have four or five more, at least, and have not accomplished anything I've wanted to accomplish (at least it feels that way), and seeing people of my age and younger seemingly accomplish so much has this terrible effect on me. Maybe it's also, at least this time, because I've been rather idle and unproductive the past few months while working on and then waiting for applications and results, and so I kind of feel like I'm stuck in mud. Whatever psychological neurosis is screwing with me right now, I really hope I can get over it soon.

Anyone had similar feelings? I have acknowledged how ridiculous all this is and completely accept that there are no reasonable grounds for me to feel this way, so there's no need to say it. I guess I'm kind of just hoping for some reassurance that I'm in a good place and really am going somewhere, and that others sometimes experience such absurd feelings in reaction to perceived success of others. However, if you do want to call me a whiner and other, worse, things, have at it. Maybe I do need a kick in the butt to be rid of this.

Hey, I have high school classmates that have PhDs/MBAs from schools like Harvard, MIT etc. Many of my former classmates are MDs and lawyers. I know at least 1 is currently a post doc and 2 have been Rhodes Scholars. And here I am beginning my scientific career by starting my PhD. I've felt like you before in thinking that I haven't accomplished much in life, but you know what? I have a lot of life experiences that they don't have because of the choices I've made, such as teaching high school for a few years. Also, I've found that comparing myself to them just doesn't help me at all, so I've decided to just focus on me and what I'm doing with my life and how I can contribute to making the world a better place. The schools I went to growing up were very competitive, so it took me a while to realize that life isn't a competition - we're all going to the same place. Just do the best you can with what you've got.

Edited by newms, 29 April 2011 - 02:49 AM.

[Amalia222]

I think most everyone goes through these kinds of feelings. As a writer, feelings of insufficiency are like old friends. You read about people who write a novel at 15 years old that becomes a bestseller, and you think: "seriously?" :-)
But I try not to base my life's happiness on outside acheivements. It doesn't matter so much what other people think you have or have not done with your life, but what you have accomplished on a personal level. Which is to say--are you happy?
I put off my career to travel the world, and I do not regret that decision for a moment. I could have slaved away at a desk, and I might have had a book published by now, but I didn't. I chose instead simple happiness. In my opinion, you should worry less about the external things---what other people think, especially--and worry about your own internal growth as a person. I may never have a bestselling novel; I may never publish another word; but if I am happy in my life and my job I really could give a rat's ass if I make a bestseller list or if I win some literary award. Those things would be nice, but they aren't essential to my feeling of self-worth.

Often, when I have these feelings that I am "going nowhere", as you say, the culprit is usually stagnation in my life. Things have become routine; my job is no longer exciting, my relationships have lost their spark. It's then that you have to think about shaking things up. Take on a new project, find something that excites you. Don't stress about whether or not you are going anywhere, and think about whether or not the place you are needs a refresh.

And that's my 2 cents.

[HandsomeNerd]

my biggest moment was when in the theater, watching The Social Network. i think around the time Zuckerburg got Facebook up and running, I had just dropped out of college and was bumming around aimlessly through life.

the most intense "wow i'm a failure" moments i get are when i find out someone wildly successful is in, around or below my age cohort (+/- 2 years).

[switch]

I went to the same high school as Mark Zuckerberg but I'm almost his mom's age and I have not finished my PhD. FML.

Other fun facts:

Peter Orzag went to same high school. Samantha Power went to same college. My former college roommate is married to a former ambassador.

[Bobbi]

latte thunder, on 28 April 2011 - 04:46 PM, said:

I feel you.


I constantly fo through facebook to see where classmates are... I try to pretend like it's motivating me to be better, but it does make me feel like a failure sometimes! It's bad when you see someone else achieve their dreams but the worst is when someone is doing everything YOU want to do!

I have a HS friend, who was two years younger but one grade below (and I was already a grade ahead, so this tells you how young she is!). She went to havard and has since started her own non-profit! A non profit thats dedicated to her traveling the world on a whim to "bring awareness." This year she's been all over the US, Jamaica, vietnam, laos and thailand.


She JUST turned 22 last week. SO super jealous. All the time.


I have a few classmates that have titles like "director" or "senior partner" ... am I supposed to be there at my age?

I feel like I'm not only behind, but that I'm not even in the race! I don't even know where in the race I should be right now!

That's why I deleted my Facebook.

[wtncffts]

Thanks everyone for sharing your stories and comments. I think I feel quite a bit more positive now, as I think I have some good ideas for research which I'm excited to start on. I've always wanted a career in academia, and I'm temperamentally an observer rather than an actor, so I think I will just have to get used to this occasional feeling that other people are succeeding in doing things in the world while I 'sit back' and think about it all.

(Of course, I'm not saying that being in academia precludes one from activism and whatnot, just that I personally have to accept that I'm not going to make my mark in the 'real world', and that what I hope to do as a career has intrinsic value; I know it does, but it's sometimes hard to remember that.)

[Zouzax]

This is a great topic. I, too suffer from feelings of self-doubt or semi-failure. At the age when many people are finishing their Ph.D programs, I'm going for a second Master's. Like another poster said, I feel like I'm pursuing pursuing pursuing without ever really achieving my goal.

But then you have to think of everything else. I have a B.S., a post-bacc, and a Master's under my belt. I've lived in several places throughout the world and learned 5 languages. I've met and had the joy of teaching some wonderful students. I've broadened my horizons and have seen things my HS friends will never see.

This is going to sound really cliche, but in the end, life really isn't about money or other material things. It's about experience and the journey that you've taken. When I remember this, I'm so happy with the things I've done so far, and I can't wait to find out what I'll experience next. Don't worry, it'll get better!

[UnlikelyGrad]

One thing I learned as a stay-at-home mom--you can't compare anyone to anyone else.

I had a son who learned to read at age 2 1/2. Then I had a son who could not make any sense out of reading at all until age 7. The obvious conclusion to draw is that son #2 was always lagging behind in the reading department, but noooooo...he went from 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds. (To be more precise, he went from stumbling through the 1st grade reader to reading Tolkein in 6 weeks.) The fact that he started late is not a handicap to him at all, now that he's in high school. In fact, I think he reads more deeply and thoughtfully than his older brother.

I like to think about myself the same way. Yeah, I'm a bit late out of the starting gate, but I can catch up to all the young'uns--and pass them. (And I'm ahead of them in one department: I don't have to worry about when in my academic career it's best to have children...)

[psycholinguist]

UnlikelyGrad, on 05 May 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

One thing I learned as a stay-at-home mom--you can't compare anyone to anyone else.

I had a son who learned to read at age 2 1/2. Then I had a son who could not make any sense out of reading at all until age 7. The obvious conclusion to draw is that son #2 was always lagging behind in the reading department, but noooooo...he went from 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds. (To be more precise, he went from stumbling through the 1st grade reader to reading Tolkein in 6 weeks.) The fact that he started late is not a handicap to him at all, now that he's in high school. In fact, I think he reads more deeply and thoughtfully than his older brother.

I like to think about myself the same way. Yeah, I'm a bit late out of the starting gate, but I can catch up to all the young'uns--and pass them. (And I'm ahead of them in one department: I don't have to worry about when in my academic career it's best to have children...)

What a great post! Nifty kids, too.

(Yeah, that's my problem. The good: I realised at the age of 17 what it was I wanted to study in college; I was 21 when I knew I wanted to go to grad-school; I'm now 23 and between an MA and a Ph.D. in a field I love love love love love. The bad: the last time I wasn't single was when I was 20, and I can't be bothered to actually go out there and get into the dating-scene since a) I'm happily single; b) I'm really darn picky; and c) I'd prefer to start with friendship anyway. So it's anyone's guess when something'll happen with someone [of compatible gender and orientation], let alone when I'd be having to decide whether to have children sooner or have 'em later. Marriage? Kids? Yeah, those sound good, but the details are a little nebulous at the moment. * laughs *)

[noodles.galaznik]

Wow, everyone has such amazing stories! I think everyone goes through stages where they feel terribly inadequate. It's really hard to not look at our colleagues and former friends and peers and compare ourselves and our accomplishments with them. It's a tough feeling to shake, but just remember this: sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're not. That's the way life goes. In the end, it really only matters what you've done and if you're happy with your life. And who knows--there may be people out there envying you!

[rising_star]

psycholinguist, on 19 May 2011 - 03:20 AM, said:

What a great post! Nifty kids, too.

(Yeah, that's my problem. The good: I realised at the age of 17 what it was I wanted to study in college; I was 21 when I knew I wanted to go to grad-school; I'm now 23 and between an MA and a Ph.D. in a field I love love love love love. The bad: the last time I wasn't single was when I was 20, and I can't be bothered to actually go out there and get into the dating-scene since a) I'm happily single; I'm really darn picky; and c) I'd prefer to start with friendship anyway. So it's anyone's guess when something'll happen with someone [of compatible gender and orientation], let alone when I'd be having to decide whether to have children sooner or have 'em later. Marriage? Kids? Yeah, those sound good, but the details are a little nebulous at the moment. * laughs *)

psycholinguist, you sound like me! Seriously. Except that I don't really care much about having kids.

To answer the original question, I think we all feel unsuccessful at times, particularly when our grants go unfunded, our papers get rejected, and we're slaving away for hours and days on a project that doesn't actually work out. But that's pretty much how it goes, right?

[sol7intakt]

Zouzax, on 05 May 2011 - 06:41 PM, said:

This is a great topic. I, too suffer from feelings of self-doubt or semi-failure. At the age when many people are finishing their Ph.D programs, I'm going for a second Master's. Like another poster said, I feel like I'm pursuing pursuing pursuing without ever really achieving my goal.

But then you have to think of everything else. I have a B.S., a post-bacc, and a Master's under my belt. I've lived in several places throughout the world and learned 5 languages. I've met and had the joy of teaching some wonderful students. I've broadened my horizons and have seen things my HS friends will never see.

This is going to sound really cliche, but in the end, life really isn't about money or other material things. It's about experience and the journey that you've taken. When I remember this, I'm so happy with the things I've done so far, and I can't wait to find out what I'll experience next. Don't worry, it'll get better!

So, so true! Thanks for such inspirational words. I constantly have feelings of semi-failure and doubt as well. I have to remind myself all the amazing experiences I have had. It's not about the money or prestige or the debt I have. I could engage in endless worrying and self-deprecation but that would not be true to the rich journey I've had the pleasure of taking. Thanks for this great post and topic.

[gellert]

UnlikelyGrad, on 05 May 2011 - 07:19 PM, said:

One thing I learned as a stay-at-home mom--you can't compare anyone to anyone else.

I had a son who learned to read at age 2 1/2. Then I had a son who could not make any sense out of reading at all until age 7. The obvious conclusion to draw is that son #2 was always lagging behind in the reading department, but noooooo...he went from 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds. (To be more precise, he went from stumbling through the 1st grade reader to reading Tolkein in 6 weeks.) The fact that he started late is not a handicap to him at all, now that he's in high school. In fact, I think he reads more deeply and thoughtfully than his older brother.

I like to think about myself the same way. Yeah, I'm a bit late out of the starting gate, but I can catch up to all the young'uns--and pass them. (And I'm ahead of them in one department: I don't have to worry about when in my academic career it's best to have children...)

This post was really inspiring. Thanks so much for sharing your story!