xypathos

I am looking for something Anglican. I'm not presently pursuing ordination but I want to keep that route open without having to do an Anglican Year later down the road. I am interested in ministry, though specifically higher ed and want to keep the door open for a PhD post-MDiv. Hate to hear that about General but not that surprised. They sent an Admissions Rep to the diocesan convention for NC whom I chatted up about applying to and inquired about financial aid. He was blunt, they had little to none to give out and were frankly "gliding by." EDS sounds nice and all, I don't think I would enjoy an online education. Also, EDS notes on their website that with how the program is setup, it takes five years to complete if you go the distributive learning route. I'll certainly look into Trinity though, a four hour car ride wouldn't be bad at all - I'm currently driving 8 hours one way, once a month to see my fiancee. I applied and was accepted to Union, and was extremely torn between Vandy and them but ultimately it came down to being closer to her. She loved her current job and had no interest in moving to Nashville or NYC so ultimately I settled on what would keep me closer. Thank you both for your suggestions.

Hey everyone, 1st year MDiv at Vandy - as per the title and evidenced from my posts on the forums. My fiancee has decided that she's ready to apply to PhD programs - literally with about 3-4 months left in the cycle, she's going to go for it. That said, I, faculty, researchers, etc have been pushing her to do this for almost three years now and I'm ecstatic for her. Because of her nuanced interests in Critical Disability Studies and Education, it looks like Syracuse is the only program that's acceptable for her work. There are faculty in other universities with loosely related research interests but they've all said with her interest, Syracuse is where she needs to be. This all works out well for her, she's had several articles published with Syracuse faculty, presented alongside them at conferences, etc - they've agreed to walk her through the process. Given her research, publications, degrees, etc - they've said the application is merely a formality and they look forward to welcoming her to the university in the Fall. So...all of that means I need to look elsewhere. There's no program available in Syracuse, so we can check that one off. I'd love to be as close as possible so that worst case scenario, weekend visits are possible. Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School catches my eye as writers I've read over the years have been attached to the school as a student or faculty member. Other than that, I don't know anything about the school other than it's progressive, ecumenical, and has an Anglican Studies program. Outside of Colgate, NYC and Boston are both about four hours away. While I'd entertain Yale for a split second, they rejected me last year so I don't see them changing their mind after a year at Vandy.

The GRE isn't required for the MTS. Having no real academic LORs will probably raise an eyebrow but coming from a large school like NYU explains some of this away. I came from a large school and 2/3 LORs I only had for one class, the other I had for two - so somewhat weak relationships. I don't see your 3.4 being an issue. NYU is fairly reputable and your degree is related to your AOI. I'm sure your travel experience will be a nice bonus but I don't see it helping much for MTS - it won't hurt though, that's for sure.

For what it's worth, the GDR encourages all MA applicants to also apply for the MTS - same courses, profs, etc. It's just a 2 year program with minimal required courses so not much different than a MA. In fact, it's closer to an MA than it is an M.Div, despite being officially in the Divinity School. The acceptance rate for the MTS is somewhere between 30-40% depending on who you talk to in the Admissions Office but unlike the M.Div program, those numbers aren't officially released to the student body.

That's a good question. I know that there are MA students in the GDR at Vandy but I've yet to meet one of them. Going through the course schedules for the last three years, there's on average 5-7 students working on their MA thesis in the Fall or Spring semester so that certainly lends to the idea that it's an incredibly small program. Of the ~12 PhD students I know that did their M* at Vandy, none of them did an MA - they're all MDiv or MTS. Hopefully this helps some.

I think he perhaps meant your program suggestions.

I'd avoid trying to suggest you want to meet with him. Seeing that you've already met once and discussed your application, it comes off as too desperate. That said, still express an interest in the program by all means. As per individual advice on how to best your application, most programs refuse to do this as a matter of policy. Who gets accepted and who doesn't is already a subjective issue and it seems like you're looking for quantifiable advice. It's also just an issue of them often being too busy to comb through an applicant and say "Do X, Y, and Z for a spot." It's also unfair to other applicants.The fact that he said "I hope a spot opens up" speaks to him being unwilling to offer personal advice catered to your situation. Your best bet is to hope that your application has improved and that they have room for someone to study 19th C. American Lit.

From what I understand from faculty at Vanderbilt, they didn't necessarily cancel the ThD. Rather, they merely merged the two programs. From Harvard's site, they list the program size at 63 so this seems likely.

LOM0408, I'm currently a student at VDS - first year in the M.Div program, so if you have questions about social life, the degrees, etc, I can answer them from the prospective of a first year, or refer you to someone. I've done a lot of networking at VDS and the various campus ministry programs, as my focus is in educational chaplaincy. As MarXian noted, the MDiv doesn't require any theological work. At Vandy there are quite a few MDiv students in our class that have no experience with the academic study of religion. The MTS program at Vandy is academic, usually 2 years but there's a sizeable population that do 2.5-3 years for the MTS. About the same for MDiv as well, most do it in the traditional 3 years but a noticeable amount stretch it to 4. Some for year-long paid internships, others to prepare for PhD work and not wanting to apply for a separate ThM so they just stay on for an additional year. Stat wise, you're fine. I've met incoming students with exceptional academic profiles and some that readily admit they did just enough to maintain a 3.0. The fact that you're a non-traditional applicant helps too. Funding is hard to gauge here at VDS. Just about everyone I've come across has at least gotten an Instiutional Grant of $12,000. That said, the more lucrative awards of 75%+ are hard to come by, only a handful are given out. I've come across more MTS students getting 75%+ than I have MDiv students. During our Financial Aid information session during orientation, they noted that the median aid package was 50% of "free" aid - free being their term for money that doesn't need to be repaid. So, it's likely you'll need to take out 20k or so a year to cover the remaining expenses, barring any money you're able to bring with yourself.

From my experience, PhD programs simply ask on their applications for self-claimed competency. Once you're in the program they'll have you demonstrate proificency by a reading exam that they'll set up, or refer you to that relative department for the exam. Coming into my Masters, I claimed limited proficiency in Chinese, Tibetan, and French. Since I am interested in further PhD work in East Asian Religious History - especially at the school I'm currently getting my Masters at, the department strongly suggested I go ahead and take reading proficiency exams just in case I can't further language courses during my Masters, and if it works out as such, my languages are stronger now than what they'll be in say 2-3 years from now. When I inquried, the Department Chair said of the two modern languages (French and German), reading proficiency in one of them is required upon entry into the program. Applicants self notify which language they have proficency in on their application. During the first semester, there will be mandatory opportunities to prove proficency in the claimed language. Should the applicant fail the exam, rather than being removed from the program, they have until the close of the summer between Year 1 and Year 2 to prove profiency. If they're still failing the exam, then they're excused from the program. As per pertinent languages, say Chinese and Tibetan (since my interest is in East Asian religious history), those profiency exams are done during the mandatory interview and campus tour when they invite their strongest candidates to campus. Schools naturally differ with their approaches to languages so it's best to review the schools you're most interested in and/or contact the Department Chair for further clarification.

Who is the faculty member at Vandy in NT that has essentially "closed" the department? Looking back on older threads and even other forums and blog posts, there's posts going back a couple of years, mentioning a faculty member that has made the environment among faculty and graduate students very unfavorable. As an incoming student, I'm curious as to who this person might be. I'm not looking to out this person publicly, but if someone could toss me a PM, I'd appreciate it.

From looking at the department list for graduate courses, the department is very much dedicated to focusing on Christianity. This is certainly understandable given that it's a small Catholic school. Also, if you're wanting to go into HB, you're going to need more than an intermediate Hebrew. So, I imagine you'll be doing an additional M* once you finish with Providence if you're looking for some of the more well established PhD programs.

Where did you hear about this program? I didn't do an exhaustive search but the latest graduate/mention of this program that I could find was in 1997. USC doesn't list a PhD in Religion, though I do know they have faculty in the Sociology department that do religion but that's a different game altogether.

From what I understand, this is because several of the faculty in NT are on sabbatical/leave. I imagine it'll be back to business as usual soon.

That's correct Kuriakos. For students interested in a terminal MA, UNC refers interested students to Duke, or for a cheaper and still quite nice placement record, UNC-Charlotte.

The M.Div at any of the large schools isn't as "priestly" as you might think it is. Most of them have other options to satisfy say a preaching course by simply taking a public speaking course of some degree, or just simply not making it required. Make sure when looking at the M.Div degree that you focus on the required courses specifically. The added benefits of the M.Div are 1) better funding, and 2) an extra year to do more languages/seminars/etc. Using Vandy as an example. Of the required courses, four don't have a direct tie-in to academic study: the supervised ministry, and the sequence of courses that I'll loosely label as 'Ministry.' Of the 'Ministry' sequence, they offer multiple courses that fulfill those needs so depending on what you feel drawn to study, you do have significant wiggle room there. As per the supervised ministry, I contend that the experience and skill set you'll pick up there will be beneficial to you as a person throughout life because of the diverse population you'll be exposed to. Vandy also gives you quite a bit of wiggle room to decide where you'll serve too.

Extremely small Quaker school that if you're interested in Quaker Studies might be a decent place for a M*. Otherwise, they don't/can't offer anything that far more reputable programs are capable of offering.

Give it a couple more months. We're all recovering from the last application cycle and preparing for the move.

Smoking and/or drinking. The real vice of every PhD student.

I think this to some degree depends on your denomination. Being an Episcopalian, I've met a lot of priests that have a (real) PhD in various fields within Religious Studies or Theology that don't teach, they're full time priests. Seeing it quite a bit among Presbyterians as well. I don't see a problem with it, the Church needs the Academy, so who better to walk that fine line than a highly educated priest? As others have said, in today's market you need a backup plan. If you get a PhD or end up going ABD, what else are you willing/capable of doing?

From what I recall, at the time of application the application fee and first month's rent. There is no security deposit, last month's rent, or broker fee for HUH.

If you're capable of coming up with your own funding, you could maybe get your DGS to let you not TA. Though really this depends on the school. Some offer say 4 years of stipend across the board, guaranteed (Yale, I believe does this). Some only offer say 2 years of stipend (Harvard's CSR for example) but then offer 2 years of teaching fellowships, in which case you're still given the stipend amount (generally) but on the condition that you do the teaching fellowship. While say Vandy requires you to serve as a Research Assistant your first year, then to TA in years 2 and 3 in order to collect the stipend.

Most, if not all, of the big name Div. schools offer an MA that allows you to concentrate in biblical studies. For example, Yale: http://divinity.yale.edu/admissions/bible-concentration A particular nod I'll give to evangelical schools is that some of them really focus on language and some of them do languages REALLY well. That said, as Joseph noted - if you're not Christian, you might find the environment troubling. I don't know how well Fuller, for example, does languages but I've known several students come out of the program that praised it and they were also agnostic or atheist. Joseph's suggestion to look to Harvard, Yale, Chicago, maybe Duke, and I'd add Vanderbilt - perhaps Emory too but I don't know anything about the school. These are great schools to look to. They're feeder schools, well known, and offer generous aid to all of their students.

I felt the same so I looked at the school's faculty and sure enough - almost none of them have PhDs. It looked like three faculty had PhDs - two from McMaster and one from Waterloo. Most simply have a D.Min and almost all of them from Gordon-Conwell.

Again, who cares? There are some people that come from top schools that have spotty scholarship. Graduating from Harvard doesn't save you from having a brain fart and writing something that you may regret or reconsider 20 years later. As scholars we won't 'mature' until a good decade or two until after we've completed our PhD. We're all biased in how we approach our work. Un/fortunately the name of religious studies leaves so much of our work to conjecture and our well-meaning educated guesses. If you're doing historical approaches, then you can say X happened, though scholars may differ on X happening because of Y, Z, or some combination thereof. In other subfields it's much more so open to interpretation. If some scholar interprets the material and concludes "Jesus was divine" and another concludes differently - who cares? We need the differing opinions in the academy, even if we disagree with them - it's how we all grow. While certainly not a hard and fast rule - generally those that hold an inerrant view of scripture don't go teaching at Harvard or other mainline schools. They're more likely to end up at a seminary and that's okay too. Those students attending that seminary, at that point of time in their life, need that scholar and s/he needs them. So no, it's not bad - just different. If reading from scholars that interrupt scripture as inerrant is problematic for you, don't read them or work with them.