xypathos

Barring something we don't know about, I imagine you may get in just about everywhere. While 161 is low for a PhD applicant, you'd probably still survive a cutoff and a 164 would be even stronger. You raise the usual question about financial aid that most do. Here's my general advice: (1) MDIV programs almost always provide more and better funding, (2) if you're wanting to do something in BS (or literary analysis), historical, or traditional theology then you're going to need languages and sometimes A LOT of them and that third year can help and (3) given the state of the job market you need to maximize getting into Harvard, Yale, Duke, and Chicago. To a lesser extent Princeton, Union, Vanderbilt, BC, and BU and probably few others. The common counter to the MDIV vs MA debate is that third year is spent taking courses like preaching or internship in a church. Some of this is certainly true but most programs allow students to cater that third year to their interests - they know not everyone is going into ministry. My MA and MDIV colleagues at Vanderbilt were TAing courses at local universities, same at Yale and Harvard. The capabilities in Boston are almost impossible to beat. You can utilize the BTI to take courses at BC, BU, Harvard, EDS, and some othere. Funding for a lot of M* programs tend to hinge on diversity issues rather than academic. This is a tough pill for a lot to swallow but it's the simple truth.

I'm from NC and in the process of wrapping up an M.A. in Theology and wanting to return to my roots in the historical preservation of sacred spaces. I am from NC though presently living in NY for the last year. I love Savannah and Charleston dearly though I know next to nothing about the HP programs in both of these cities, beyond what their websites share. Is anyone familiar with the reputation of the schools? I've largely heard that SCAD's reputation doesn't justify the tuition and expenses but that was for fields outside of historic preservation. I am not sure about Clemson and CoC's joint program though I know alumni of both schools and they love them fiercely. Just putting feelers out there to inquire. It seems the forum as a whole favors UPenn, Cornell, and UMD and I'm wondering if that's indicative of wider feelings within the profession.

http://archinect.com/forum/thread/99292/the-truth-about-boston-architectural-college It's well regarded but exceptionally hard to graduate from.

I have a similar UG background - disastrous Freshman year, better Soph, and then Jr-Sr I kept a 3.9 GPA. I was offered academic fellowships to all of the M* programs I was accepted at. Admittedly it helps that divinity schools tend to have a 50%'ish acceptance rate but also rebounding your final years of UG show that you're adapting well. As long as you apply broadly and explain your situation when needed, you'll do well.

Is anyone familiar with UoF and its reputation? The latest information on this forum, that's reliable, is from 2012 and the site still references "competitive GRE scores" from the old system (competitive scores had a combined 1000, which would probably be 153'ish). Given the fact that I hear very little of the school on here and in general, I already know it's not considered top echelon obviously. All of this being said, I realize that quantifiable numbers only get you past undocumented cutoffs and that "fit" becomes far more important I've been toying around with Magoosh for prepping and it's predicting a 161-166 which will survive any cutoff they have, I hope. I'd prefer a large state school over a smaller private, and since my interests are in technology v. nature and how that plays out in popular culture, Bron Taylor at UoF would make a wonderful fit.

This reply is a little dated but I was raised in Winston and visit 3-4x a year, though I live in the NE now for grad. school. I'm happy to answer questions about the city but if you're from NC and have seen parts of NC outside the ritzy neighborhoods of CH, Durham, and Raleigh - then WS is pretty typical. Downtown WS has quite a bit going on for itself as far as the Triad goes, GSO is coming along but I still prefer WS' vibe. Hanes Mall is pretty standard for your indoor mall - not sure what you're looking for in terms of a mall. If you're looking for high end, which I presume you far from the comment, then your best bet is maybe South Park in Charlotte or headed back to RTP. What specifically are you looking for?

This isn't a "I think I'm depressed, let me turn to a forum with a bunch of anonymous people for help" situation. I've seen psychologists and they're all pretty certain, I'm part of the 1% of the population that gets Summertime SAD as opposed to the far more well known winter variety. I was with some fellow graduate students at a bar licking wounds over finals and sharing summer plans. Most are headed off to do research, vacations, etc - my department isn't big enough for summer courses even for us to TA for UGs so I'll be adjuncting at the local CC. I'm fine with that, in fact I'm super excited about it since its been my experience that summer students generally want to be there beyond needing to fulfill a requirement and with CC students they're all walks of life often taking the course for personal enjoyment. Anyway, my group of graduate friends are all super stoked about summer as most people are. Me on the other hand ... summer is incredibly hard for me, mentally that is. I generally drop 40 pounds or so, up til 2-3Am because of insomnia, and largely just keep checking to calendar to see if it's fall yet. To be honest, I've never run across someone else with Summertime SAD though have been told that while rare (1% as I was told), these individuals on anecdotal evidence seem to more often work in higher education, or so I've been told. Is there anyone else out there and what are constructive means you take to help? My fall back is to go on exceptionally long walks with my dog - 10+ hours in the mountains kind of walks. Anyway, just checking in to see and hope everyone is well.

So I realize that in some part the study of religion exists outside of its department - Classics, History, English+ (Lit, Rhetoric, etc), Philosophy, etc. That said, I've in particular struggled finding religious studies programs that meet my specific interests. I would then imagine given my time here at TGC and the questions asked every year, that others are having this problem. I realize websites like gradschools.com bring together sites but obviously for-profit univerisites are often ranked higher, programs with little to no connection to religion are listed, etc. Is there, in everyone's opinion, a need for a directory of specific Religious Studies programs? Perhaps categorized by country, public v. private, historically strong AOIs, etc. Any attempt at a list would need to be curated as professors move, departments shift areas, programs close, etc. After some time expansion into corollary departments would be added. Given the results and forums here, data available through phdstipend.com, and others - it would, I think, be advantageous to pool together resources into a collective front and making the data easily attainable for students.

Is this about Oxford? I know for undergraduates that Oxford admits students but then you have to be accepted by one of the member colleges who will, essentially, educate and supervise you. My history professor did his DPhil at Oxford and the way he described the progress it seemed about the same for graduate students. So maybe?

Syracuse fully funds MA students with no TA'ing obligation. From what I've been told by faculty is that university fellowships are awarded to MA students while TA'ing contracts and funding is awarded solely to PhD students. This way PhD students get teaching experience while MA students can focus on their studies and thesis. All of this being said - Syracuse accepts 1-3 MA students a year, so the acceptance rate is generally <5% - somewhere around 75 MA applications. To echo driving's point - get in and get out. Its beneficial for everyone. If you have full funding and flexibility on time limits, by all means use it! That said, Vandy for example has an extremely limited amount of funding and they make it nearly impossible to graduate in three years without summer courses (which you almost always have to pay for out of pocket). I heard horror stories of the majority of the Div. School student body graduating with 60k+ in student loans from doing an M.Div there.

I think SunshineLolipops is referencing a Carnegie-Caledonian PhD Scholarship, which unless the committee has relaxed requirements I don't see how they'd qualify for it. You must have graduated from a Scottish college/university as an undergraduate and any commencement of any research degree also makes you ineligible. http://www.carnegie-trust.org/schemes/postgraduate-schemes/carnegie-caledonian-scholarships.html#eligibility

PTS, Yale, and Duke have admit rates for the MDiv somewhere around 50%+-. Given your christian undergrad background and presuming it was a regionally accredited college, I don't see that impacting Duke or PTS. Yale though is a little harder to size up. If you feel that your mental diagnosis is relevant to a particular essay question or your personal statement, by all means discuss it. However, do know that discrimination about mental illness exists at every level of society and it's especially true for divinity/seminary schools. Divinity Schools are particularly hard and trying programs, and if you're doing them right, you should be plagued with an existential crisis here or there - it's in these moments that we grow. You will need to have a handle on your condition at all times, and that means meeting with a professional on a regular basis. If/when the time is right, perhaps they'll suggest more informal venues for you to pursue - be it group support and/or meeting with a peer specialist but it needs to be them that suggests it, not you. The second you slip on your counseling, you'll fall - even counselors need counselors. I tried for years to handle my situation on my own and I've soured great friendships b/c of it. You'll be a healthier you with others to help but even then, as I stated earlier - share your mental illness carefully, it won't be seen as a benefit by anyone and the second you stumble, the administration will use it as an excuse that you're unfit to continue in the program. I've seen students excused at VDS and my current program b/c they wrestled with their own demons. Anyway - just be concerned for your own safety before anything else. Don't worry about the GRE, it's a waste of time for the MDiv unless you're applying to HDS and/or Chicago.

1) ThM degrees are for post-MDiv. They're fairly exclusively used to grab an extra bit of coursework before embarking on a PhD. Generally they're done at the same institution as the PhD (though not always) and sometimes they're (or a plain MA) issued to PhD students along the way as they finalize coursework though this seems to be rarer. Now, how theology is approached is entirely dependent on the school you attend. YDS is fairly Anglican/Episcopalian with a smattering of other, Harvard seems fairly well rounded though progressive mainstream, VDS is heavy on Methodism and Presbyterian/Calvinism. So really, you need to identify where you fall theologically and then choose the school from there. Since you went to Brown and studied arts, I'll presume you would find Harvard, Yale, Vandy, and Chicago as acceptable places. PTS and Duke would likely be okay too. More to your concern for what "philosophical theology" is - really it's just an attempt to utilize philosophical tools within the study of theology. That is, it's a theological process that is not only open but adamant that the use of reason and experience is absolutely vital. So yes, it's apologist but really all of theology is to some degree. Philosophical theologians, largely, go where the evidence leads them - as opposed to only using evidence which leads them to where they want to go. Off topic but Vincent Brümmer is my favorite philosophical theologian. 2) All of the top schools have MTS programs, though not all call them MTS. MTS is largely equivalent to an MA from a secular Department of Religious Studies at say Harvard. Both take approx. 2 years to complete and utilize a thesis and/or language studies. Yale calls theirs the MAR (MA in Religion) for example, Vandy uses MTS, etc. 3) No - I've seen people be exceptional students MDiv and MA/MTS/MAR without a single undergraduate course in religion. Most MDiv programs presume zero incoming knowledge for students, whereas MTS programs sometimes prefer at least a tangential relationship, such as history courses. If you're wanting to study theology and you've never taken a religion, philosophy, or history course that might raise an eyebrow but definitely not kill an application. 4) DD degrees are for practicing ministers. They involve courses and workshops to refine their skills as a minister. Usually they specialize in say Homiletics, Church planting, Spirituality, etc. Sometimes schools will offer a D.Min which is largely the same as a DD. The difference is in schools that offer a ThD (Doctor of Theology), the degree is nearly identical to a PhD though the student is usually focusing on a theological problem that is specifically "church related." Harvard use to offer a ThD (now everyone is a PhD), Duke for the time being offers a ThD, ThDs are still common at some European schools. The general rule of thumb has always been: If you know you want to go into the academic study of religion and have NO interest in ministry, the MTS is fine. If you feel that you might want to do ministry (or know you do), then you should get an MDiv. Almost always if you're on the fence and you have the extra year, it's advantageous to do the MDiv. 1) The money is almost always better as an MDiv student unless you can land a prestigious fellowship, and 2) extra coursework = better recommendations and writing sample. As far as coursework is concerned: Yes, if you take the MDiv route you'll have more requirements but your top schools are quite flexible on what satisfies those requirements. For example: Yale, Harvard, and Vandy all either require or strongly encourage doing a year long ministry placement as part of your coursework. For myself, I'm discerning a call to academic ministry so through my school my "Supervised Ministry" placement was TAing undergraduate courses in religion. I have friends at Harvard and Yale doing the same at local schools. YDS, HDS, VDS, Chicago, etc realize that not everyone going into an MDiv is intending to lead a church so they're willing to shape the curriculum to the student. I hope some of this was helpful. Glad to answer more questions or to speak about specific schools. If I cannot answer them I know students and administrators at all of the schools which can, and there's definitely people on this board that can. My biggest suggestion right now is to narrow down a list of schools that you would likely feel comfortable at given the theo-poltico-social leanings of the faculty and staff, but also the ability of the school and you to get to where you want to be.

I'll also add a plug for the services of Thorsten Moritz, a German theologian at United Seminary in Minnesota. He has a two course sequence on German, 1) basic grammar and 2) Modern theological German that he has prerecorded lessons for. We stayed in contact 2-3x a week, on top of the 42 hours of taped instruction. I was able to handle Moltmann and Pannenberg, as promised, with nominal difficulty once I finished the course. I took my German exam this semester and was marked as Exceptional Mastery. http://theologicalgerman.com/Home.html - $500 for both courses or $250 for one. While I was doing theological German, the skills would still be applicable to philosophy.

Have you spoken with Dr. Paul Lim at Vanderbilt? He's certainly engaged with 16th C. long reformation English history and theology. That said, I got the sense from him that he's far more interested in Puritanism than Anglicanism, and thus supervising like minded students. As well, VDS/GDR only accepts one student per field so if they've recently taken a historical or theological student then your chances of acceptance are pretty much nil.

Harvard posts - http://studyofreligion.fas.harvard.edu/pages/completion-and-placement However more and more institutions are not publicly posting specific placements and/or names because of privacy concerns. If you contact the Chair or Department Secretary they're usually willing to share some of the information privately.

Presuming this is for M.Div/MTS. If so, there's no more official funding. Now, if you write the Director of Admissions and discuss that it's your #1 spot but you have needs which cannot be met by the 75% offer...then maybe. They do do it but not openly and only for select needs. That said, there are avenues within the university to cover living expenses, part time jobs, etc.

There was a student at Vanderbilt that did his BA in Religion online from APU (American Public University) and was accepted into VDS (M.Div) with 75% funding. Anecdotal but it seems that at least at second tier schools, it's not too much of a hindrance.

Most RS and Theology programs use the notes and bibliography style of Chicago, while sciences use the author-date style of Chicago. Yes, there's two forms of Chicago but not much difference. While Turabian use to be an ever slight deviation from Chicago, that's no longer the case. I *think* Turabian finally gave up and fully merged with Chicago in the latest addition. Like you Averroes, I don't care much for MLA but that's b/c I've been using Chicago for the last 10 years or so.

If it's a yes from Claremont, find some current students. More specifically, find students who would be in your position (financial packet wise) and ask them how they navigated it. It's entirely possible that attending may be a financial possibility. Something that a lot of students don't consider, and it's something places like the H.E. Chron have covered, is that most Ph.D. students in the Humanities still have to take out loans and/or part-time work in order to make ends meet. Its been written out about extensively, my POIs have talked about that reality with me, and most Ph.D. students I've talked with have admitted to taking out loans or picked up a PT job until they pass Comps. and moonlight an UG class or two at the college or somewhere in town.

What's your situation with Claremont, more specifically? Have you heard back from them and waiting on a financial packet?

Transitioning from History to Religion (vice versa, etc) happens but the logistics of it largely depends on the politics of the department. Anecdotal but when inquiring at Syracuse University I was told by several Departmental Chairs that the university will not admit the acceptance of a Ph.D. student that does not have a secular M.A. degree in the field. For example, it does not matter if you have a M.Div or MTS from Harvard, you will not be accepted into the Ph.D. without first doing a secular M.A. specifically in that field. The Department Chair in History and elsewhere confirmed it as well. Local universities from what I've gathered have similar official and unofficial policies. Again though, there are secular universities that have no problem taking in a M.Div or MTS grad, so it just depends. In short, you're really just best served to contact the Chair or better yet the Secretary (my experience - they often know the rules better than most faculty and are often willing to talk more freely) on any potential complications of having a M* in one field while transitioning to another. Some faculty aren't interested in working with someone transitioning fields, not wanting to work with "confessional students," etc.

There have been a couple active over the last year or two. Unfortunately once they find out the financial situation at Claremont for PhDs, they don't bother applying. For the uninitiated, it's a largely self-pay program where students generally pay their way teaching UGs in local CCs or maybe being able to line up a TA position at a nearby university. If those positions cannot be lined up, it's loans - there's very little funding from the university.

If you are looking for an online MA program and being in the military, I'll add that you should consider American Military University (part of the APUS system, http://www.apus.edu/). It's a regionally accredited school and AMU specifically caters to military individuals and their spouses. I know of a Ph.D. student at Syracuse University in History and another in Sociology that did a Masters through AMU, both former active duty officers (Army and Navy as I recall). So while not much, it would seem that their online M.A., at least, didn't hurt them. It's also slightly cheaper at $12,600 tuition for the whole program. Looking at their website, they offer concentrations in American, Global, Ancient and Classical, European, and Public History. They also offer a separate M.A. in Military History.

I can speak some about Vanderbilt, though I was only there for a year before my partner was accepted into a PhD program and it necessitated me relocating. They do offer some full funding + stipend packages but they're quite limited, maybe 5'ish students. That said, every other M.Div student is generally offered a package of 50-75% funding. The funding however really only covers tuition and associated fees (insurance and the like). You're on your own for room and board, most students simply take out federal loans to cover COL fees but given the renting market in Nashville, most students had to rely on a partner to help cover living expenses or hold down a part time job. The student body always has a large cohort of students working in food and income disparity social justice outreach in Nashville, and every semester the Div. School has a class at Riverbend (prison) where div students and prisoners take a class together. The Riverbend course is always wildly popular and most students take at least one course there for the experience. It's a wonderful school but it has some drawbacks unless you want to work in non-profit/outreach or are pursuing ordination as a Methodist minister. Always glad to talk about my experiences there and/or connect you to current students or administrators for answers I can't provide. Looking at the numbers you provided, I think you'll be accepted but a full funding package is unlikely given the students that traditionally receive them.