captiv8ed

Jacib, I will take a stab with absolutely no yelling ;)Class stratification education is my passion.
First let me say I am speaking about middle class privilege versus working class. I think that it is easier to envision a cut in lifetime earning potential because university professor is a high status occupation.

Now, as to the way privilege can sneak in:
Have you read Unequal Childhoods by Annette Lareau? It isn't just about networking, its knowing how to navigate and feeling a sense of entitlement (not in a bad way) Many middle class kids are taught these lessons pretty much from birth. I was listening to an interview with Lareau (it was on the achievement gap and how to overcome it) and she was talking about household dinners she sat in on, where professional class parents were using SAT words with their kids just sitting around the dinner table. In her experience, professional class kids are more likely to see their parents act as advocates as well.

Its also important to realize that some folks have to overcome a family background of anti-illectualism. This certainly was the case for me. I sat down with my dad in my senior year and told him I wanted to go to college and he looked over the brochure and said, "How are you going to pay for it?" and handed it back to me. End of discussion. I didn't know anything about financial aid. My best friend was a little more proactive and met with our school counselor. He said, "How much money do you have?" and she said she had about $2000. (which she had saved up from her babysitting jobs). He said okay, it looks like you can afford to go here. He never told her to fill out a FAFSA. She wanted to be a doctor and had planned to be one all of her life. But her family was dirt poor. She shuffled off to the school he told her to go to, which was a heavy duty engineering school. Many of her profressors were from the Middle East and had extremely thick accents, so she quickly got lost in math. Yes, she could have and should have gone to an advisor, but when you are 18 and have spent ten years of your life being molested by your step father, grandfather, and cousin, it can interfere with the self esteem. So when she couldn't do it, she just figured she wasn't cut out for college and dropped out.
Finally, there are studies that have been done about the effect college can have on working class students. Depending on the type of background they are coming from, they can get to this very awkward place where they don't fit in with their families but don't feel fully comfortable around academics. This is definitely the case for me. I can't really talk about what I am studying with my family because they think I think I am too good for them when talk about it, or it makes them feel stupid. But I feel hick-ish and unrefined around academics. When I first attempted college, I was 20 and had been working as a stripper for two years. I felt SO out of place in a classroom with freshman who were living in the dorms and hanging out and partying. I dropped out after a semester. I really felt I didn't belong there. Now it is 15 years later and I am mature to overcome that feeling, but it is still a struggle.

Other possible issues: undocumented workers (which plays havoc on the financial aid game, women who are coming from a culture where their parents believe it is the woman's job to get married and have babies and therefore are wasting their time on education (yes they still exist), students who are overcoming language barriers, drug problems, mental health issues, family financial issues (ie, they need to work to support their parents). And then there are students who have not received decent foundational education. I was a TA last quarter and one of my students is a junior and she wants to go to law school. But she can't write sentences coherently or synthesize readings. And she has been passed through and passed through.
I have more but I am going to post this because I have some memory of a relevant reading and I need to find it.

Jacib, I will take a stab with absolutely no yelling ;)Class stratification education is my passion.
First let me say I am speaking about middle class privilege versus working class. I think that it is easier to envision a cut in lifetime earning potential because university professor is a high status occupation.

Now, as to the way privilege can sneak in:
Have you read Unequal Childhoods by Annette Lareau? It isn't just about networking, its knowing how to navigate and feeling a sense of entitlement (not in a bad way) Many middle class kids are taught these lessons pretty much from birth. I was listening to an interview with Lareau (it was on the achievement gap and how to overcome it) and she was talking about household dinners she sat in on, where professional class parents were using SAT words with their kids just sitting around the dinner table. In her experience, professional class kids are more likely to see their parents act as advocates as well.

Its also important to realize that some folks have to overcome a family background of anti-illectualism. This certainly was the case for me. I sat down with my dad in my senior year and told him I wanted to go to college and he looked over the brochure and said, "How are you going to pay for it?" and handed it back to me. End of discussion. I didn't know anything about financial aid. My best friend was a little more proactive and met with our school counselor. He said, "How much money do you have?" and she said she had about $2000. (which she had saved up from her babysitting jobs). He said okay, it looks like you can afford to go here. He never told her to fill out a FAFSA. She wanted to be a doctor and had planned to be one all of her life. But her family was dirt poor. She shuffled off to the school he told her to go to, which was a heavy duty engineering school. Many of her profressors were from the Middle East and had extremely thick accents, so she quickly got lost in math. Yes, she could have and should have gone to an advisor, but when you are 18 and have spent ten years of your life being molested by your step father, grandfather, and cousin, it can interfere with the self esteem. So when she couldn't do it, she just figured she wasn't cut out for college and dropped out.
Finally, there are studies that have been done about the effect college can have on working class students. Depending on the type of background they are coming from, they can get to this very awkward place where they don't fit in with their families but don't feel fully comfortable around academics. This is definitely the case for me. I can't really talk about what I am studying with my family because they think I think I am too good for them when talk about it, or it makes them feel stupid. But I feel hick-ish and unrefined around academics. When I first attempted college, I was 20 and had been working as a stripper for two years. I felt SO out of place in a classroom with freshman who were living in the dorms and hanging out and partying. I dropped out after a semester. I really felt I didn't belong there. Now it is 15 years later and I am mature to overcome that feeling, but it is still a struggle.

Other possible issues: undocumented workers (which plays havoc on the financial aid game, women who are coming from a culture where their parents believe it is the woman's job to get married and have babies and therefore are wasting their time on education (yes they still exist), students who are overcoming language barriers, drug problems, mental health issues, family financial issues (ie, they need to work to support their parents). And then there are students who have not received decent foundational education. I was a TA last quarter and one of my students is a junior and she wants to go to law school. But she can't write sentences coherently or synthesize readings. And she has been passed through and passed through.
I have more but I am going to post this because I have some memory of a relevant reading and I need to find it.

I don't think that what Milkman is saying invalidates your experience at all. Nor do I think it is offensive, rather it is actually a compliment to you and your tenacity.
The achievement gap is real and higher education is absolutely a privilege in this country. I am poor, come from a working class background, am a first generation college student and am earning my undergraduate degree at age 39 with three kids in tow. And that puts me in a privileged position.
http://www.publicagenda.org/files/pdf/theirwholelivesaheadofthem.pdf
This study has found that only 40% of students have earned their bachelor's degree in within 6 years, and by far the most cited reason for dropping out is either the need to work more and earn more money or the high cost of tuition and fees. The majority really want to go back and work and family committees hold them out.
This doesn't take into account the students who don't even have a chance at college, often due to socioeconomic reasons.
Only 10% of Americans over the age of 25 have an advanced degree. I have learned enough about cultural capital and networking to know that hard work alone does not account for all of those degrees.

Again, I am not trying to negate anyone's hard work. My family and I were homeless about a year before I started school. I understand what it is like to overcome seemingly insurmountable odds to achieve a goal. But I also try hard to always remember my own privilege that worked for me in order to get there, and I know that the majority of graduate degree seekers have more privilege than I do.

Higher education has always been for the privileged and it certainly still is today. Sucks, but true.

Hey all,

I got a way early acceptance call from my best fit (though least prestigious) possible program on March 1! I was totally caught off guard, partially due to the fact that I hadn't expected to hear anything for several weeks, and partially because I'd almost forgotten about the applications--I'm a busy man.

So anyway, they offered me a full ride, as it were, plus a halfway decent stipend--or what seemed like a halfway decent stipend while I was on the phone. The more I think about it, the more I'm wondering if I'll be able to live on it. I currently live in Brooklyn and make 20K more a year than they're offering me. The school is in little town Ohio, so rent would likely be a little less than half what I pay here, but I've been working in the private sector for 2 years and my fiancee and I have become accustomed to a certain standard of living. I'm very worried about not being able to make it work on that amount of dough.

I've got applications in at two other schools, one of which is here in New York and offers substantially more cash, but which is also a total reach for me. The school at which I've already been accepted is a good fit, and my lady and I are both enamored of the idea of spending two years there... So I guess what I'm asking is: is it at all acceptable to reply to the offer by saying you'd love to attend, but can't swing it at that pay rate? Or are these things pretty much set in stone? I'm giving it 3-4 weeks to see if I hear back from my other two choices, but I'd love the peace of mind of knowing that I could make this initial offer work for me somehow.

Thanks!

I have to agree with someoneoutthere. The statistical chance of getting into all those top schools is extremely slim. And his GPA was only what, 3.7-ish? I'm just not convinced that, however solid, his SOP fit every school's agenda.

It all depends on what you are willing to do to achieve your dreams.

I am currently working a job that pays me just short of 50K a year. I can guarantee you no graduate school is going to pony up enough to meet that salary. And we barely make ends meet as it is because of student loans and credit card debt and a mortgage...seems like it's always two steps forward, one step back.

If you don't have a mortgage or kids, then I think if you really want this degree, you'd be brain-dead to say "well, we can't buy the clothes we want or the organic produce we prefer, so I'm turning down your (excellent, by the way) offer of admission with full funding in favor of continuing to live the life to which we have become accustomed."

From my point of view, and mine alone, I would love to be only engaged, without kids, with that offer on the table. I wouldn't blink twice, in fact. In the end, you have to decide what's more important - the work and eventually the degree you want so badly - or the surf 'n' turf at Outback once a week. No one else can make that choice for you. But I will tell you - when you do have a family, the stakes are higher and the choice is much harder.

To be waitlisted is to be stuck in the first level of hell. (My mother is an English Lit person...)

Not necessarily. The sociology program at UC Berkeley ranked first according to USNews in 2009, and in the three years before that year, they admitted 30 something applicants, while 16 finally attended. The number could be slightly wrong, but the thing is basically like that.

Not necessarily. I am in a top program in my field, and we do sometimes lose admitted students to other programs for reasons such as research fit. Last year, for example, the one waitlisted applicant did end up getting an offer. However, if you do get an offer, it may come fairly close to April 15th or even later.

Best of luck!

*Glowing LOR
*Strong background in research
*Interesting life experiences (spent two years of high school in other countries learning about different cultures)
*Solid work experience (teaching for 8 years, manager of home for mentally disabled, volunteered for two years in an orphanage in Ukraine)
*Broad interests (HIV, coping, marriage, adolescence, education, spirituality)
*Hard worker

I believe that I would add flavor and diversity to a program, so for the last time:

Attention all graduate programs: it would be in your best interests to accept me (quickly) into your program and offer me full scholarship, TA, RA, and fellowships.

Simply put. . . .me > you:P

2.4 GPA UG, 2.2 major
Stellar GREs, double 360's
2 Good letters of rec from previous employers, 1 good one from my favorite TA
I've got balls of steel.

Oh and don't take that personally or start crying. That was a baguette of sarcasm coated with a dusting of powdered sugar humor. (I'm from the UK so our humor is a bit more insensitive than you might be used to.)

Eh, how about enough with the back and forth. As far as your super craptacular GRE score. Maybe grad school, or just school isn't for you. I'm not saying you are as dumb as a bag of hammers, but your brain may just be telling you it's had it with the input function. So why not try something else? If I were you I'd load up on Adderall or Ritalin and try again. I'm not dispensing medical mumbo jumbo and I'm not legally responsible for any action you take. I'm just saying what I would do if I had your condition where . . . .was that a rabbit?! . . . you just can't focus on anything for more than. . . .I swear I saw a rabbi!. . . a few seconds.

Good luck buddy:lol:

I care.

Just a thought.

On the other side of the coin:
No!! It can't be almost March! The article that I was supposed to be working on all during the month of Feb is due at the beginning of March! Curse you short month!

On the other side of the coin:
No!! It can't be almost March! The article that I was supposed to be working on all during the month of Feb is due at the beginning of March! Curse you short month!

Clearly:

Most useful: Computer Science. The information age is just beginning.
Honorable mention: Philosophy.

Lease useful: American Studies
Honorable mention: Guitar and Lute Studies (they offer this at my university... LUTE!?)

What do YOU think?

Returning to the ORIGINAL post:

Listen, I'm not an expert on this. I don't claim to be, and I don't particularly WANT to be.
Now that the disclaimer is out of the way:

Although an English dept may accept you despite low GRE's (and everyone agrees that for the top-twenty, scoring in the 90th percentile and above is recommended, if above 700V - you've definitely crossed the slushpile bar) due to a stellar GPA, writing sample, SOP, and LORs, you MIGHT have problems with fellowships / TAships. Many universities HAVE to take into account the total GRE score (as strokeofmidnight said before me) to approve funding for candidates. And since (unfortunately or not, not up to me to say), a lot of funding options depend on GRE scores. And since Universities are scrambling for fellowship money, they want to present the most attractive candidates (this is quoted directly from my father, a tenured prof at Brown - although not in the Humanities - but funding is funding is funding, just about anywhere). If you're applying to top-twenty programs, the competition this year is SO tough, and SO many qualified, amazingly smart applicants are in the pool - well, I don't know. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I applied this year with an initial score of 600V / 560Q. I realized very quickly that I most likely WON'T get in to the 4 programs I applied to. Especially since I totally missed the november subject GRE (I decided to apply too late to register for it). So I went and did the silly test again, and registered for the April subject test. I improved scores significantly, and will be applying again next year, confident that at least my app won't be thrown away in the initial sorting.

I recommend that you do the same. The GRE, as crappy as it is, is NOT impossible to prepare for. My scores this time around were much higher than the first time, with only 4 weeks of studying, and were also MUCH higher than the GRE I took right out of college.
If you want above a 700 in the verbal (NOT impossible), crack down and study vocab. READ. LOADS. Read The Economist, Scientific American, read books with advanced vocabulary that uses obscure meanings. Take your dictionary EVERYWHERE. Get the prep books.

To improve the math - hrm - I'd say go back and practice.

However - DO NOT rely on just good GRE scores to get in. Make sure your writing sample and SOP are superb and focused. Make sure your recommendations are excellent.

Good luck!!

Don't take this personally, it actually is intended lightheartedly/ jokingly, but REALLY.....

SOM - you're wrong because seadub says you're wrong, and this person apparently knows everything about the GRE and how it is used as a judgment tool at every program in the United States of America - just ask. Haven't you been paying any attention to his or her posties all over this board? How dare you attempt to bring real-world experiences into your explanation for why you believe what you believe about the GRE. Reality has nothing to do with it. It's all about the statistics reported on the internet and in the GRE prep manuals.

Actually, you were not accepted at Duke with your scores, even though you say you were, because Seadub says your score is too low to have gotten in. You actually hallucinated your experiences...

And personal attacks? Ha, ha, hehehehehe. You haven't yet been the recipient of this person's really personal attacks. But if you keep trying to make him or her see reason or accept that his or her view is not "THE" right view, I'm sure you will.


I suggest the "ignore" button.... :rolleyes:

Well, well, well.....finally I become a member of this community....I was watching these pages for the last few days....applied for 9 univs.....got a cute zero acceptance till today....ohh....yaa.....got 2 rejections as well...... the same boring stuff....large number of qualified applicants.....record breaking number of etc etc.... neways.....I wont get anything for worrying....so better cheer about it!!....yaa I am serious......is there anyone enough lucky out here??.....Lets enjoy our present days..... :-)


Oh...yaa....those who have been accepted....I sincerely congratulate them all....wish u all d best....and hope that you will also hope and pray for me

You continuously post inappropriate and intentionally hurtful comments here. Perhaps this is simply a manifestation of your application-related stress, but if you continue to behave this way in a social capacity you will find yourself alienated very quickly. I am not familiar with the news story you and MM were discussing, but it appears that you are simply using the apparently inappropriate nature of his comment to advance your own argument and prove him wrong. If you were indeed personally offended by what he said, the appropriate way to deal with the situation is to simply say that he crossed a line and that you were offended, not to call him "disgusting." Your attitude is extremely juvenile and unprofessional, and if you do not attempt to remedy that problem of yours, then I cannot see how you will ever be successful in any professional capacity. Making rash and unnecessary insults may hurt their recipients a little bit, but doing so will hurt you much more in the long run.

Seadub, your necessity to lash out at people for no reason is quite disturbing. Calling MM a "disgusting" person was inappropriate, offensive, and unsolicited. I don't think he intended to offend you with his comment, but if he did you could have responded more calmly. Considering how easily you feel compelled to hurl outrageous insults at people on this board, I wouldn't be surprised if you had some kind of serious anger management problem, which could lead to dangerous outbursts in real life. I'm not kidding about this or trying to be petty, but I really think you should consider seeking help with a psychologist or support group.