ilikemoney

Co-signing this. I sense resentment and that you don't see him as "good enough" for you. I hope I'm wrong, but only you can answer that. If that is the case though, DTMFA. You're just asking for misery. I can't imagine being in a successful relationship where I didn't fully respect the career and intellect of my partner.



This is crazy, absolutely 100% certified bananas crazy. You would lose respect for someone because they made career moves -- that is, sacrifice -- to follow love? I can't fathom that.

There are very few jobs out there where you can't do meaningful work because of your location. On the flip of that, there are a lot of jobs where you can do good, important, satisfying work just about anywhere. There are, and probably in academia more than other places, rare instances where both people have jobs in which location is crucial. In which case you shouldn't date that person. More often than not, at least one partner can make a move without much sacrifice.

If you really love someone, really want to keep them, both sides will have to sacrifice at various times. If you can't do this without losing respect for your partner, save yourself some heartbreak and run for the hills.

Just be up front. You'll be fine. I would suggest losing the freak-out attitude -- that will turn them all off a lot more than the multiple emails. Who advised you? The Department or a little birdy?

I've always been surprised that Johns Hopkins ranks so high in education.

I can't speak too strongly -- all my information about the education school is second-hand. I live in Baltimore and love the University. I'm going there to start a PhD next year to study social science stuff, with a focus on education.

I'm surprised because I currently teach in Maryland, and I have never met a single teacher who has walked in and out of that building and left with a positive opinion. Unanimously, every person I ever have talked to has mentioned that the classes lack rigor and are unhelpful to their teaching. My old roommate felt so strongly he quit his all expenses paid master's program. Since the program focuses so much on practitioners, and not academic research, this worries me doubly.

My guess is that three things push up its rank: 1) its close relationship with the business school (I feel like USNEWS eats that stuff up); 2) its participation in the IES predoctoral program (even though it seems like other departments really carry the work); and 3) the center for social organization of schools, which is sponsored by the university.

My feeling is you can do a hell of a job studying education in departments like economics and sociology at Hopkins, but the research programs in the Ed School are, I've heard, lacking.

Hope I'm wrong!

I'll start with a story and then draw conclusions.

**
I was invited to an "applicants weekend" at the University of Pennsylvania. This was for an application I put in to study education policy at their graduate school of education. They invited 40 out of over 400 applicants, and it broke down to about 5 people per program track. I quickly realized a few things. First, everyone who was invited had stellar, stellar resumes. Meaning, nearly perfect grades, high GREs, and great work experience. It was a confirmation of what I knew abstractly: extremely talented people with extremely strong records apply to extremely strong schools. Furthermore, they were all articulate and had great personalities. Competition is tough.

Of the 40 people invited, I think a little over half were probably offered positions there. I was placed on a wait-list as I assume everyone else invited to the weekend who didn't get accepted. It was clear that few people there were going to get rejected for being unqualified and unsociable. Rather, those who got in fit with the style of the school and faculty, and more importantly, their research interests. I didn't have a perfect fit and that became to me very clear, especially during interviews.

Of course, I left the interviews thinking: if only I had said that x, y, and z were my interests, and I'd like to study them with methods a, b, and c. Perhaps that would have done the trick, had they not been able to read the lack of enthusiasm on my face. But in the end, I was honest about my approach and interests and they were not sufficiently receptive to that. So I probably don't belong there and had they accepted me I would have been less likely to thrive.

**

In the end, this is what I learned from this experience and the rest of the application process.

Rules:

1: A good academic record and good experience is a necessary condition for a successful application, especially at a top school. However, it is not a sufficient condition.

2: Fit with the style and interests of the program is a necessary condition for a successful application, espectially at a top school. However, it is not a sufficient condition.

3: Luck is a necessary condition for a successful application, especially at a top school. However, it is not a sufficient condition.

4. A good academic record + fit + luck is sufficient for a successful application, especially at a top schools.

5: You can't take rejection personally and your succeses is in some ways out of your hands.


Advice:

1: To the extent that you can, while still being true to your interests and capacities, tailor your SOP and LORs for the school you are appyling to. Most schools don't interview, so they're going to determine fit based upon what you say about yourself and what others say about you.

2: Don't count yourself out at top schools or fields outside your specialty. If you truly have something to offer the program, you have a chance anywhere, so long as you meet rule 1 above.

3: You can't take rejection personally. Your interests are what they are, and even if you are very competitive on paper, you will probably not be admitted unless you fit well and have some luck with how your interests and talents much up against the accepted applicants.

4: Be very gracious and proud of your acceptances, particularly the funded ones, at top schools. If you were admitted, and the school is willing to pay for you, that means they want you there. This is a necessary condition, I would imagine, for a successful doctoral experience.

5: Apply widely, but appropriately. It's unlikely, even with a 4.0 and a 1600 GRE, that you will get in everywhere you apply. You need to cast the net widely. That said, don't apply to Harvard just because it's Harvard. Apply there because you fit. I made the mistake of applying to top schools I didn't seriously consider just to "see what would happen." What happens is I got rejected, and I could have used that money to buy beer.

Other comments:

I'm kind of ambivalent about professor contact ahead of time. I didn't do it at all, and I got into my top choice. My top choice was literally less than a half-mile from my house, and I was in the first flight of their admits. They had never met me nor heard from me and they knew I was right next door. In the end, it didn't matter -- I fit well so I got in. It may help your application to talk to the faculty, but it's not in every case necessary. Honestly, it's probably better for finding out if your application stands a chance. In any event, if they want to talk to you, after reading your application, they will get in touch. If it's your style to talk ahead of time, go ahead and do it. I guess I was just kind of a hands-off kinda guy. I figured, if they wanted me, they'd want me.


Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

Co-signing this. I sense resentment and that you don't see him as "good enough" for you. I hope I'm wrong, but only you can answer that. If that is the case though, DTMFA. You're just asking for misery. I can't imagine being in a successful relationship where I didn't fully respect the career and intellect of my partner.



This is crazy, absolutely 100% certified bananas crazy. You would lose respect for someone because they made career moves -- that is, sacrifice -- to follow love? I can't fathom that.

There are very few jobs out there where you can't do meaningful work because of your location. On the flip of that, there are a lot of jobs where you can do good, important, satisfying work just about anywhere. There are, and probably in academia more than other places, rare instances where both people have jobs in which location is crucial. In which case you shouldn't date that person. More often than not, at least one partner can make a move without much sacrifice.

If you really love someone, really want to keep them, both sides will have to sacrifice at various times. If you can't do this without losing respect for your partner, save yourself some heartbreak and run for the hills.

Just got a letter from the admissions director at Penn GSE letting me know I was waitlisted. I suppose that's better than a rejection!

I applied to the policy program. I left applicant weekend impressed with GSE's hospitality, but unsure whether the program was the best fit. I felt I could do good work there, and felt a particularly good connection with two of the faculty there, but definitely didn't get a sense of full support of my research interests.

Thankfully, my top choice came through last week with an offer to a program which couldn't be a better fit, is more convenient for my life, better aligns with the approach I want to take to my research and my field. Plus that have given me a warm welcome indeed.

So my feelings aren't too hurt, and hey, maybe an offer will come through in the end. Congratulations to those who made it, good luck to those in my situation.

Not too different than yours, my friend. I live in the same city as the school I'm attending (Baltimore--> Hopkins). My last day of work is June 30. I move into a new house with my girlfriend on July 1st. Which means I'll have a copious amount of time to worry about furnishing and burnishing. (Has anyone used that phrase before? I just made it up.)

My main focus is to get in shape again. I used to be able to run a 2:42 marathon and I weighed about 20 pounds less than I do now. So, twice a day running is priority #1. Included in that will be helping to run a summer running program for my Cross Country team. Otherwise, I suppose I'll read a few books on Sociology -- after all, I've only officially taken one course in it, when I was a freshman in college (say... 8 years ago?).

This will be the first summer without work obligations since I was 14. And with trying to make ends meet on a stipend, probably the last.

Perhaps my wording was strong. I still think transparency is the best option here. Be as open as you can while protecting your interests and that's the right thing to do.

I would caution students from using identifying information (names) as their grad cafe names. Grad students in the current programs troll these boards, and we know what you're saying before/after you show up. Just be smart about using the internet. GradCafe is a great resource, but I think people are a bit loose with some of the information they share here.

I would also echo what everyone else has been saying about GRE scores. GRE scores seem to only really matter if they are low. If you know you aren't good at taking tests like the GRE, take a class and take it early and often to increase your score. Just remember, regression to the mean! If you scored well the first time, don't retake it, because it's not likely you will score higher.

I am in a similar situation now with my girlfriend (I'm a male). I'm guessing here, but it sounds like your just not that into him, and maybe more into yourself? I say this because I am sort of the same way. I want a mate who is successful, has a degree, ect., but not one who has "more" of that than me. I would resent a girlfriend/wife who did not eventually get a masters, or even a phd. I think this just comes down to age and maturity, but I'm sure some people never really grow out of that. I'm confident I will! Don't drag the guy along if you really don't see yourself with him, whether that be because of your own selfishness or his own issues. I'm sure it will work out just fine, good luck!

A lot of what I want to say has already been said by other people, but I feel compelled to say something anyway. I will be celebrating my 20th anniversary in 2 months, so I like to think that I have bit more experience in keeping a relationship together than most.

A marriage, or any relationship, works only when two people are willing to support each other, despite the sacrifices that such support entails. It involves accepting the other person the way they are, even though you wish they were slightly different.

Reading your post, I get the feeling that you seem to want to shape him into your idea of success. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe he has a different idea of success? Have you ever considered the idea that he might not want to be a rock-star academic? Has it ever occurred to you that he might not WANT your "advice" on graduate school? Maybe he just needs someone to listen to his woes; someone who will say, "Wow, sounds like you had a rough day!" rather than telling him what he should do about it. Maybe he wants to be treated as an intellectual equal even though he didn't get into quite as good of a grad school as you did.

FYI: I come from a family with many strong, successful women. For example, my sister Chrissy (who paid for her graduate education by first becoming a NSF fellow, then a Hertz fellow) has been the "successful" one as compared with her husband, who still works part time so he can pick up their kids from private school. She has a Ph.D., he has a M.S. She is a tenured professor, he is a research associate in her department. If you were to walk into her house, though, you would not know which one was more successful. They treat each other with respect and kindness.

I could give you more examples of the women in my family and the men who married them, but I won't bore you. Just trust me--the attitude you have is immature, and not at all conducive to convincing a male partner to stay with you. ("Keeping" makes him sound like a pet or a trophy.)

I don't really understand the OP's need to have a super successful partner.

My long-time boyfriend is a nurse. He is in a completely different world. He makes good money, but once I get a PhD I will probably make more, and I will have the "Dr." title and the prestige associated with it, along with a hopefully also successful career. And I have never resented him for it. He loves his job because he loves the feeling he gets, going to work and helping people every day. He started out in Physics in college, and while he was good at it, he had no passion, no drive. He comes home from work excited to tell me stories about his day, or so happy when a patient gives him a gift because he helped them. THAT is success. I hope that someday I can be that happy with my job every day. And truth be told, I think it is a good thing to have only one career-oriented spouse. When we have kids, he has a much more flexible schedule and has mentioned that he wouldn't mind being a stay-at-home dad, or only working part time. I would hate to raise kids in a house where both parents work all the time!

And so far at least, he has shown no resentment to following me. He followed me to the city I did my undergrad, and he will be following be to grad school as soon as he gets a job up there. We are lucky that he is a nurse, and has reasonable mobility in his career as well.

To the OP: Re-evaluate what you want in a relationship. It's not a competition. Who wants to fight with their spouse to be the best their whole lives? It's about being with someone that you love and see past "faults" (thought I truly don't think this is a fault, it's not like he is an unemployed loser living in his mom's basement) and finding someone who you want to build a life with. If you don't see this with your boyfriend, do the boy a favor and break up with him. Let him find someone who will enjoy his caring and selfless nature, and who won't resent him for not being a star.

I agree with you about soul mates. The reason I don't believe them is because, simply put, you're not going to have it all with anyone. You must compromise. The point is that even if you find someone at the right time with the right career and with all the characteristics you want, you are still going to have to give up a lot of things, many of which one can never foresee. For that reason, happy marriages are those in which communication and compromise comes natural. Those happy marriages you see -- I'd bet the house that they don't have it all. But they do have love and understanding, and that is as close to having it all as one can get.

I think, no matter how old you are, if you're not willing to factor your partner in to your decision, that tells you everything you need to know. You haven't met someone that you love enough to make the compromises. There is nothing at all wrong with this. Putting yourself first in that case is exactly the right decision.

But that is so different than claiming you can't respect someone who sacrifices for you, by following or making career adjustments, which is immature. If you really love someone and want to spend your life with then, then it really is crazy to lose respect for them because they want to sacrifice.

Perhaps my wording was strong. I still think transparency is the best option here. Be as open as you can while protecting your interests and that's the right thing to do.

Not too different than yours, my friend. I live in the same city as the school I'm attending (Baltimore--> Hopkins). My last day of work is June 30. I move into a new house with my girlfriend on July 1st. Which means I'll have a copious amount of time to worry about furnishing and burnishing. (Has anyone used that phrase before? I just made it up.)

My main focus is to get in shape again. I used to be able to run a 2:42 marathon and I weighed about 20 pounds less than I do now. So, twice a day running is priority #1. Included in that will be helping to run a summer running program for my Cross Country team. Otherwise, I suppose I'll read a few books on Sociology -- after all, I've only officially taken one course in it, when I was a freshman in college (say... 8 years ago?).

This will be the first summer without work obligations since I was 14. And with trying to make ends meet on a stipend, probably the last.

I've always been surprised that Johns Hopkins ranks so high in education.

I can't speak too strongly -- all my information about the education school is second-hand. I live in Baltimore and love the University. I'm going there to start a PhD next year to study social science stuff, with a focus on education.

I'm surprised because I currently teach in Maryland, and I have never met a single teacher who has walked in and out of that building and left with a positive opinion. Unanimously, every person I ever have talked to has mentioned that the classes lack rigor and are unhelpful to their teaching. My old roommate felt so strongly he quit his all expenses paid master's program. Since the program focuses so much on practitioners, and not academic research, this worries me doubly.

My guess is that three things push up its rank: 1) its close relationship with the business school (I feel like USNEWS eats that stuff up); 2) its participation in the IES predoctoral program (even though it seems like other departments really carry the work); and 3) the center for social organization of schools, which is sponsored by the university.

My feeling is you can do a hell of a job studying education in departments like economics and sociology at Hopkins, but the research programs in the Ed School are, I've heard, lacking.

Hope I'm wrong!

If you log in to your ASF: https://was-4.umd.edu/contact/login?from=https://apra.umd.edu/application

You can find your ID by clicking "Verify contact information."

I just checked the online app status page: http://www.testudo.umd.edu/apps/gradapp/

My app status was updated to say "Recommended for admission on 02/18".

I haven't actually heard from the school yet, so no details about their offer, besides this. I applied to EDPS. You might want to take a look if you're waiting and anxious!

Thread over, you win. Bravo!

I agree with you about soul mates. The reason I don't believe them is because, simply put, you're not going to have it all with anyone. You must compromise. The point is that even if you find someone at the right time with the right career and with all the characteristics you want, you are still going to have to give up a lot of things, many of which one can never foresee. For that reason, happy marriages are those in which communication and compromise comes natural. Those happy marriages you see -- I'd bet the house that they don't have it all. But they do have love and understanding, and that is as close to having it all as one can get.

I think, no matter how old you are, if you're not willing to factor your partner in to your decision, that tells you everything you need to know. You haven't met someone that you love enough to make the compromises. There is nothing at all wrong with this. Putting yourself first in that case is exactly the right decision.

But that is so different than claiming you can't respect someone who sacrifices for you, by following or making career adjustments, which is immature. If you really love someone and want to spend your life with then, then it really is crazy to lose respect for them because they want to sacrifice.

I agree with you about soul mates. The reason I don't believe them is because, simply put, you're not going to have it all with anyone. You must compromise. The point is that even if you find someone at the right time with the right career and with all the characteristics you want, you are still going to have to give up a lot of things, many of which one can never foresee. For that reason, happy marriages are those in which communication and compromise comes natural. Those happy marriages you see -- I'd bet the house that they don't have it all. But they do have love and understanding, and that is as close to having it all as one can get.

I think, no matter how old you are, if you're not willing to factor your partner in to your decision, that tells you everything you need to know. You haven't met someone that you love enough to make the compromises. There is nothing at all wrong with this. Putting yourself first in that case is exactly the right decision.

But that is so different than claiming you can't respect someone who sacrifices for you, by following or making career adjustments, which is immature. If you really love someone and want to spend your life with then, then it really is crazy to lose respect for them because they want to sacrifice.

Sadly, this perspective does seem kinda cold, but this is my current perspective too. I know I'm still growing and figuring things out and I'm not ready to factor obligations to another person in that yet. Luckily, when I brought this up with my boyfriend when we had been dating a few months he agreed and said he felt the same. I was looking around for PhD problems and we both agreed that he shouldn't be part of my decision. If we were still together when the time came for me to move, he could follow me (he's a teacher) or not based upon what he felt was best for him. Similarly, if I stayed (which I did) it was not because he was there.

Everybody's different and at different points in their life though. Even though I've been with my boyfriend for quite some time now and care VERY deeply for him (I have a phobia of the L-word), there are still parts of my life I'm not ready to compromise on. I feel I'm too young to want to be tied down and regardless of who I meet, I'm not ready to give this up. By some miracle, my boyfriend has no problems with this and encourages me to live my life first. We just talk as things come up and take life one step at a time. He's right for my life right now and I for his, but we are honest and talk and re-evaluate when we hit bumps. So far, so good, but neither one of us is looking for a life-long commitment right now and that's what matters to us.

There's nothing wrong with this. Maybe it's not romantic or fit other people's notions and experiences, but it works for us, we're happy, and honest and that's all I care about. I have plenty of friend that got married right out of high school though and had no problems compromising from the start. That's what they wanted, chose, and have been happy with.

As for the OP, if you convince yourself that situations won't allow it to work, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It happens just because you believe it will. Be honest with yourself and your partner. Nobody can tell you this is how you have to do it, or this is how it should be, but you do owe it to yourself & your partner to be honest with each other.

Thread over, you win. Bravo!

Ceseda, thanks for a reasonable and not incredibly hyperbolic reply (it seems like yesterday was just the mean people making mean comments day).

This is why I'm not married yet and don't plan to be married until I'm settled in my career. Of course you have to sacrifice when you are married to someone. In the meantime, it's much easier to find a new guy that I could be happy with than it is to find a new job that I'd be happy with. That may be harsh, but it's true. I don't believe in soul mates or anything close to soul mates, and I know that my boyfriend could also easily find another girl he was happy with. I want us both to have everything, and if we can't have everything together, then we'll have to have it apart. And for now, we've been lucky and will be very close for the next 4 or 5 years

I have only seen maybe 5 truly happy long-term marriages in my life, and it seems to me that the best formula for a happy marriage is two people who knew who they were before they married and are happy with all other aspects of their life. I want to be satisfied and happy myself rather than following someone else and depending on them for happiness.

Nobody likes being thought of as a failure, male or female. What makes the original post so yucky is it is just dripping in contempt for her man. Now I don't know what the poster is like in reality and how she *actually* treats her boyfriend, but it sure doesnt bode well for a good relationship. If this is really how you feel, do your man a favor and and end the relationship. And do it nicely.