[From Bachelor's in Engineering, to Master's in Counselling Psychology?]

You are not the first one to make this leap, there is a gentleman (also an international student here to the U.S.) in one of my research labs whose BA is engineering but has made the transition to psych.  So it is totally possible!

You will most likely have to take some courses in addition to the Psych GRE, at least for U.S. schools. Almost all universities require a handful of core psych courses AND the psych GRE for non-psych degree holders. These are the same courses one would have taken if you minored in psychology, generally speaking, to prove that you have a solid foundation of learning from which they can work. I would imagine that any of these courses would be available from a local college, or even online in many places, so that is something to think about.

In the U.S., you could get apply to a Masters that allows you to become a licensed counselor, which is a very entry level position, but also a bit easier program to get into, as there is little to no research element required.  If you want a Masters that could lead to a doctoral program for instance, where you could potentially run a private practice or go to work in a residential setting after graduating, you are going to need to apply to schools that do research AND clinical work. Those programs are going to want to see a year or two of research experience before you apply. A forensic program is absolutely going to want you to have significant research experience. You mentioned working and volunteering in the field, which may make you more attractive to some programs than others, but will not make up for a lack of research in total. 

Most importantly, you are going to have to find a mentor and program that has a very strong connection to the kind of work you want to do in the long run, and you are going to have to articulate in your personal statements how your experiences and education have prepared you for this kind of study. I would highly suggest doing lots of reading of current literature to see who is doing the kind of work you want to do, and then emailing those professors to open lines of communication. You are going to need all the connections you can get to make the leap from one field to another.  Academia is absolutely as much about who you know as what, which is brutally unfair and yet still very true.

[Career options except being a clinical psychologist]

10 hours ago, doa said:

which area of expertise do I/O psychologists work

Management, hiring/recruiting, marketing, productivity. Also, areas like diversity and discrimination, training...anything related to making a business run successfully, essentially. A thorough I/O PhD training prepares people for a variety of roles. For instance, there are I/O candidates in my current lab. They have taken internships or positions in many different areas.  Some have moved into the tech sector, and do User Experience research and development. Some go to work at universities or non-profits working on diversity initiatives. Others have gone to work in private industry, helping to develop tools and techniques that help businesses make more money. 

I/O is not for someone who wants to do any kind of clinical work. If you want to do counseling with clients or patients, if you want to work with kids or teens, if you want to do diagnostic testing, those kinds of things, than you need to go the Clinical Route.  I/O is very different from what most people think of when they talk about psychology.

[Career options except being a clinical psychologist]

55 minutes ago, doa said:

companies, schools, and theraphy centers as a consultant after studying counselling psychology

No, I apologize for any confusion - consulting is an I/O psych career, not counseling. You would need an I/O degree to apply for those kinds of positions. A counseling degree would not be a fit for any of that.  Counseling would allow you to work in private practice or mental health centers (maybe hospitals?) as a therapist.  They are two very different and separate programs

As for Canada, I cannot speak to the legal requirements there, but I'm sure someone else can, or the information may be available online

[Career options except being a clinical psychologist]

6 minutes ago, doa said:

but would companies hire a foreigner for such jobs? 

If you have the required education and can demonstrate your effectiveness, I don't see why not. Companies care about what will make them the most money. If that's you, then that's you. 

[Ways to build community in your psychology research lab?]

I think this is a universal struggle this year

We maintain a GroupMe chat group, that we use for social chatting as well, to encourage staying in contact. We've also done a couple of Zoom hang outs, playing games online or just getting to know each other. Our lab does a once-per-semester self care day, this last semester our PI sent a selection of teas to each lab member, and we got on Zoom to chat and play games. We're just trying to take advantage of technology as much as possible to keep everyone connected.

 

[How to find Master's programs in Counseling Psychology?]

9 hours ago, PsychCrab said:

What's the best way to reach out to grad students?

This past year has been a mess, hasn't it? Emailing students directly usually gives some response, as long as your email is polite and not a hot mess   Our inboxes fill up almost as fast as faculty, what with classes, ongoing projects, assistantships, internships or teaching classes of our own, so I would say make sure your emails are brief, concise but not demanding, and convey your seriousness about finding a program that is a good fit. The end of the semester is not optimal, just because we are all finishing up finals, prepping for defenses or Comps at those times, but otherwise most students are willing to communicate at least briefly. Summer can be a great time, as we are all still working on things but may have more flexibility of time. If grad students from a certain program are consistently not willing to answer questions or flake out, I would take that as a big red flag - grad school is a team sport, are those the kinds of people you want on your team?

Twitter can be a great resource, and I imagine this site could as well. Maybe check in the more general forums as well as here in the Psych specific one? 

[How to find Master's programs in Counseling Psychology?]

2 hours ago, PsychCrab said:

I want to be in a program that's supportive, inclusive, with mentors who genuinely enjoy nurturing graduate students and feel a sense of responsibility in seeing them succeed. As far as I know, there's no guide that relays subjective information like this. 

Best way to find this out, is to talk to the graduate students currently in the program, or recently graduated from the program. Grad students are the best kept secret when it comes to getting information about PIs and programs, I swear. 

[How to find Master's programs in Counseling Psychology?]

On 4/27/2021 at 12:46 AM, MaryQofS said:

I am a non-traditional (43-year-old) student

Late to the party here, but uhm... I'm a 43 year old PhD student  And my PI was thrilled to take on a mature student who "knew what they wanted and what drove them".  She views my life experience and age as a huge bonus, and quite frankly, now that I am a year in, so do I. My younger cohort members often struggle with some skills and concepts, not because they aren't each brilliant in their own way, but because they just don't have the real-world experience to really get some things. 

So, yeah, tell whoever that was to stuff it.  They clearly have no idea what they are talking about.  Go for whatever program you want!

[Career options except being a clinical psychologist]

9 minutes ago, doa said:

By consulting did you mean smth like coaching?

Coaching would certainly be an option, but what I meant was consulting with business owners or managers to make changes, design trainings or policies, conduct trainings maybe, to help the company increase productivity and profits. Designing a more productive office atmosphere, for instance, designing and conducting cultural competency trainings for employees, or training front end workers on things like selling skills, service skills... things like that

[Career options except being a clinical psychologist]

45 minutes ago, doa said:

i did not know that clinical psychologists could diagnose patients in the UK

I am in the U.S. so I don't know what the rules are in the UK or EU. Here, a clinical psych with a PhD or PsyD can do testing and diagnosis, but a Masters level psychology degree cannot. 

Also, I/O is often HR type jobs, but also consulting work, anything that interacts in the business world to maximize productivity, essentially. If you want to work in a clinical type setting, an I/O degree would be a waste of time, IMO

An MSW here in the US allows you to work as a social worker/case worker for the state, in a hospital or a private practice. MSW also often work in nursing homes, hospitals, mental health facilities, directly with clients, once you have attained your license. LCSW (licensed masters level clinicians) provide therapy and in many states testing or diagnoses, so very similar to a clinical psychologist but with only 2-3 years of grad work instead of 5-7. Many people with an undergrad degree in psych make the leap to social work, it is very common here.

[Career options except being a clinical psychologist]

On 4/26/2021 at 6:53 PM, doa said:

I would like to know which fields of psychology would be a good fit for job opportunities

If you don't want to be in a clinic, and you don't want to teach and do research, may I suggest Industrial-Organizational (I/O) programs? A Masters in I/O psych or Organizational Behavior is a highly desirable degree in the business and consulting worlds, and among the best paid of the psych careers at the Masters level. 

Alternatively, within the clinical world but without the diagnostic capabilities of a Clinical PhD, a Masters in counseling could lead to a license to be a therapist or rehabilitation specialist; an MFT is for Marriage and Family therapy; or an MSW (social work) is psych adjacent and could lead to professionally licensed positions, including the LCSW which does have some testing and diagnostic capabilities. 

As PsyDuck9 said, if you could elaborate on what you do want to do, it would help narrow down the options

[Fall 2021 Developmental Psychology]

On 4/24/2021 at 12:30 AM, skittlez12345 said:

I'm waitlisted for two programs. What are the chances of making it off the waitlist this late in the game?

Not the greatest, unfortunately.  Offered applicants had until April 15 to make their decisions, so waitlisted candidates should have heard shortly after that if they were going to get an offer. 

Not to say it's impossible, I've seen offers come through as late as May, but not likely, I'm sorry to say.  I hope you get word soon, either way, so you can make decisions about the next cycle.

[Best ECs to get into an I/O program]

Can you get a job or volunteer position as an RA or lab manager in a psychology lab, that would allow you to participate in some research and get some experience presenting?  Without some significant research experiences, anything clinical or neuropsych is going to be a difficult stretch to get into. 

Your best bet beyond a job in the lab would be to apply to a Masters program that requires a thesis; this would provide you with the research experiences you need prior to applying to a PhD or PsyD program. Many smaller psych masters programs are much less demanding of research experience, they know you are going there to get the experience you need.  Many I/O Masters programs could be within reach for you now or in a year. Clinical Masters would be much harder, but still achievable with the right PI. 

Also, I/O and neuropsych are very different, so use this time to decide which you want to do and how you want to focus. Any research is better than none, of course, but if you want to go a clinical or neuro/cog route, you are going to need that kind of research experience to be considered.

[Recommended by Department??]

Usually recommended by department means recommended for admission. However, I don't think this is a guarantee of anything, if funding isn't there, for example. I would say if you don't hear anything by the end of the week you could email and ask.  The April 15 cut off is tomorrow, so if they are going to be making additional offers this is the time.

Good luck! 

[Psychology PhD Stipend (Clinical, School, Developmental)]

4 hours ago, prospie1234 said:

Anyone have any info about school or dev programs?

Developmental programs are lower than clinical, apparently.  My stipend is in the low 20s, and I'm told it's generous for a developmental program - and I live in a VERY high COL part of the United States. I know some other programs in the MidWest and South struggle to hit 20.

[Need Advice / Encouragement About Whether Or Not To Accept A Grad School Offer]

Agreeing with @Rerunabove - have you considered asking about the option of deferring for a year? I don't know the statistics on it, if programs are really open to that or not for a first-year, but maybe if you explain your health circumstances, an exception could be made. Also, I agree that if you've gotten in once, you can get in again - surely you would spend the time over the next year making improvements to your application, right?  So your chances certainly at least won't go down if you decide to pass this season.

That said, have you looked into the health insurance offered by your new (possibly) institution? Many if not most PhD programs offer health insurance to their grad students- at mine, for instance, it is required unless you provide proof that you are covered by a parent or spouse's insurance, and the institution pays the lion's share of the premium costs. It may be that you will still be able to have the surgery in your new location, just slightly delayed while your new physicians get caught up on your case and needs. A delayed surgery may be worth the wait if it allows you to move forward towards your long-term goals. But only you can decide which is most important. 

They aren't wrong - doing a PhD is challenging enough when you are in perfect mental and physical health. However, let's not be too ableist either - plenty of people successfully complete their programs while also experiencing health changes or difficulties. The key element is a supportive environment that recognizes your needs as important, and allows you to develop in ways that work for both you and them. 

[What would be considered quality research experience when applying to a Clinical Psych Ph.D.?]

Are you not writing a Masters thesis? These are usually first-author pubs or posters, and really cement your research abilities. 

[Assessment and advice for my next year's admission process (Clinical Psychology PhD)]

You have been a busy bee! 

As you noted, Clinical programs are notoriously competitive.  Continue to gain direct research experience the rest of this year, for sure.  However, I would challenge you to start working on your personal statements and such now. You are a non-traditional student, in more ways than age.  Since your psychology research experience is going to be limited compared to other applicants coming from undergrad or Masters programs, you need to make that work to your full advantage with an amazing essay that points out your life experiences as a benefit and not a hindrance. What from your experiences as a teacher, as a working professional, and as a crisis responder has motivated and prepared you for a life of research and clinical service? How can you tie it into your research fit? 

I was also a non-trad applicant, though not in Clinical. When she offered me the spot, my PI told me she was excited to work with someone who had real life experiences and fully fleshed out passions and motivations, as I had expressed them in my statements.  Like you said, not as much time, so we have to pour a lot into a little space, and we can't be wasting time with stuff that's only kind of interesting or kind of related

[Anything else I can do? (not accepted into clinical/counseling)]

17 hours ago, NoKappa said:

how crucial is it that the research be aligned with whatever I am looking for in a future program?

In your field would be great. In your particular scope of interest would be *chef's kiss*

But when push comes to shove, any research is better than none. I would say, try to get in to a clinical/counseling lab if possible, either in an academic institution or at a med school affiliated with a university. Research skills are research skills - what you learn in any one lab can be easily translated to another. 

[Need Advice- Low 3.0 GPA]

3 hours ago, szbk said:

Do you think finding a clinical psych (or in that area - behavioral analysis, etc) master's program makes more sense for that? 

That depends - is Behavior Analysis (or whatever) your long term goal for your PhD as well? If you eventually want to do counseling and research, you may be better served looking at Clinical masters or professional counseling masters programs. If you want to study ABA and related topics like autism, than an ABA could benefit you more.  If you really love research, and client work will be a side job, you might consider an Experimental program that has strong clinical influences. Tailor your masters to boost your PhD - if you are going to apply to research focused Clinical Science PhD programs, an ABA or LPC program may not be the best fit - but if you decide to go with PhD programs that are practicioner-focused, then they could be a great help.  I know this sounds really vague, sorry. Just remember that a PhD is a long-haul game - you have to be thinking and planning way ahead of time. As much as possible, do everything you can now to narrow your focus and create a space for yourself in the field you want to be in, long term.

[Anything else I can do? (not accepted into clinical/counseling)]

7 hours ago, NoKappa said:

2 from two non-academic clinical psychologist

Do you not have two other possible academic LOR writers? If you are applying to clinical research PhD programs, this is a huge miss to not have academic researchers writing your LORs. Beyond research, grad school committees are looking for someone who has proven they can be successful academically as well. Your Masters GPA of 3.5 is borderline for many clinical psych programs, and it may have hurt you to be lacking strong academic voices that could stand in support of your academic abilities. Maybe revisit this for the next application season.

Do you not have any conference presentations from your research work? I know conferences went virtual in 2020, but they still count on the CV and should be listed. And conferences are still happening this year as well - you may want to submit to a psych conference or two this year and get those on the record. 

Lastly - how are you articulating your desire to research assessment? And are you applying to research-based clinical programs? Check the fit of the PIs you are applying to, and make sure when you write your personal statements that you are clearly explaining how your interest is a great match for their interests. Bad fits don't get interviews even if they are a perfect candidate on paper.

Don't give up hope.  I would venture to guess that a very large percentage of clinical applicants do not get accepted on their first round.

 

[Is it bad to not accept an offer immedietely?]

Agreed - you are under no obligation to make a final decision before April 15.

That said - as soon as you make a decision, let them both know, don't just sit on it.  There's likely a poor soul sitting on a waitlist somewhere who will happily take the spot you reject, so be merciful to your fellow applicant and communicate your decision as soon as you make it!

 

 

[Need Advice- Low 3.0 GPA]

I think the CC courses will help you potentially fill in the gaps from your undergrad, as long as your grades are good. However, if they start dragging your GPA down, I would skip em. 

Research is going to be the single most important aspect of your application, because not only will it be on your CV, but you will also need to be able to articulate it in your statements and get excellent LORs from academic/research supervisors. GRE is less important than it used to be, many schools are moving away from using it as a criteria.  Still study hard, and get as high a score as you can - if you score amazingly well on the GRE it may help balance out the low GPA. 

If it were me, I would strongly consider applying for a Master's program.  I'm assuming you want to go the Clinical route - those programs are ridiculously competitive, and going through the process of getting your Masters and completing a thesis will make you a much more viable candidate. It will give you the research experience you need, and let's face it, once you make it into grad school, your undergrad GPA means very little - so ace your way through a Masters and no one will bat an eye at your undergrad grades. You may have to relocate to find one, unless you just happen to live in an area with a school that offers a terminal Masters in your preferred area of research, so keep that in mind as well. 

I'm very "meh" about emailing grad school deans. In my experience they tend to be very non-responsive and not really helpful when they do. You would be a million times better off spending that energy networking with potential PIs and grad students in your field of choice building relationships and making connections. 

Lastly, a PsyD and PhD are very different animals - before you apply to a Masters, have a good long think about which one you want to do.  A purely research-focused Masters will be less helpful if your end goal is a PsyD, and a Masters with little research will not get you into a PhD program.  So do you want to be more hands-on, client focused daily? Or would you rather do a mix of research and practice?  Or are you strictly interested in clinical research?

[For parents who are going through this process]

My kids were older (teens when I applied to Phd), so I realize it's a little different. And the pandemic only exacerbates all your difficulties - this year is unlike any other, so it's a hard comparison.  I applaud everyone who is trying to do this grad school thing with little ones at home - I can't even imagine doing that with my three!

Just my thoughts... when I started thinking about a PhD, my husband and I really had to think hard about what we would have to sacrifice to make it work. We had to move 1200 miles away from home and family to make it happen.  We both walked away from stable jobs - they didn't pay great, but they were stable, even in pandemic, and we knew our budget to the penny. But we decided to go for it anyway. We had to all be all in, or it was just never going to happen.

Do you have support systems that are enabling your journey?  What can you personally let go of so that you can focus more on your program? Then, what do you need to pick up? What can be shifted to a different time, different day, different person?  And what can just be dropped completely - what do you need to eliminate altogether? Because in the end, as crazy as it sounds to add self-care to your already stupid-long list, you need to take care of you. You can't pour from an empty cup, as they say. 

 

[Advice for applying next year?]

On 3/11/2021 at 11:19 AM, Psyche007 said:

Taking students fresh from undergrad and putting them into this environment perpetuates this issue.

Oh my gosh, so much THIS. I tell most of the young undergrads I mentor that they should really take at LEAST a year or two, get some experience under their belt, before applying for a PhD.  Or get a Masters, go out in the work force for 2-5 years and then apply. I know that our current economy makes this hard, I know that this is totally counter to what some advisors will tell you. But the person you are at 22 or 25 is not the person you want to spend the rest of your life being strapped to! The things that interest and motivate you at that age will change dramatically, and you need some time to get out and see what the actual world looks and works like before you can really begin to speak about what you want to study, what you want to change.

There's a reason that in many other countries, PhD candidates are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, compared to their early 20s here. I think they've got it right. I wanted to do Clinical Psych when I was a 20 yr old undergrad.  Then I took a job in business and had a first career working hands on with people.  I now know that I was never a great fit for Clinical Psych, and I would have been a miserable person if I had roped myself into that all those years ago. So, even though I am the oldest in my cohort, I have the benefit of knowing exactly what I don't want to do, and what I will and will not tolerate as far as unrealistic expectations. I can advocate for myself (and others) in a clear, concise, professional way that gets the message across.  I could never have done that as a 22 year old fresh out of undergrad. 

I am a firm believer that if you are meant to do something, the gates will open - when it's the right time. Not before. If it isn't this cycle, maybe it's next year. Or maybe it's in 3 years. Or maybe you are applying to the wrong kind of program, not the right research fit. If this cycle isn't it, you've been gifted with another 6 months to really examine yourself and your passions, and find ways to communicate that to others. Just make sure you are focusing on what really drives and fascinates you, because just getting the PhD will never be motivation enough to put yourself through the stress and pain of a 5-6 year PhD program, and PIs can read that in your statements and LORs.