NinjaMermaid

"Why did you apply to schools that are so far away and cold? You could just go to UT Austin."
"You want to study monkeys? And then what.. be a zoo keeper?"

Or my favorite from my 28 yr old neighbor just the other day--
Her: I want to apply to graduate school!
Me: That's great! For what?
Her: Oh, I don't know. But I want to live in Arizona so I guess I will go to Arizona state university.
Me: Wait, you don't know what you want to do? What was your undergrad degree?
Her: Psychology, but I don't know if I will like that. I really want to study the body.
Me: Um, ok so you mean you would like to be an MD?
Her: What? I don't know but I like Biology....
Me: I tell you what, why don't you start looking at graduate programs in Arizona and see what makes you happy.
(I'll help her along as much as I can, but I never met someone so full of excitement who had no idea what she should be excited about.)

"Why did you apply to schools that are so far away and cold? You could just go to UT Austin."
"You want to study monkeys? And then what.. be a zoo keeper?"

Or my favorite from my 28 yr old neighbor just the other day--
Her: I want to apply to graduate school!
Me: That's great! For what?
Her: Oh, I don't know. But I want to live in Arizona so I guess I will go to Arizona state university.
Me: Wait, you don't know what you want to do? What was your undergrad degree?
Her: Psychology, but I don't know if I will like that. I really want to study the body.
Me: Um, ok so you mean you would like to be an MD?
Her: What? I don't know but I like Biology....
Me: I tell you what, why don't you start looking at graduate programs in Arizona and see what makes you happy.
(I'll help her along as much as I can, but I never met someone so full of excitement who had no idea what she should be excited about.)

"Why did you apply to schools that are so far away and cold? You could just go to UT Austin."
"You want to study monkeys? And then what.. be a zoo keeper?"

Or my favorite from my 28 yr old neighbor just the other day--
Her: I want to apply to graduate school!
Me: That's great! For what?
Her: Oh, I don't know. But I want to live in Arizona so I guess I will go to Arizona state university.
Me: Wait, you don't know what you want to do? What was your undergrad degree?
Her: Psychology, but I don't know if I will like that. I really want to study the body.
Me: Um, ok so you mean you would like to be an MD?
Her: What? I don't know but I like Biology....
Me: I tell you what, why don't you start looking at graduate programs in Arizona and see what makes you happy.
(I'll help her along as much as I can, but I never met someone so full of excitement who had no idea what she should be excited about.)

"Why did you apply to schools that are so far away and cold? You could just go to UT Austin."
"You want to study monkeys? And then what.. be a zoo keeper?"

Or my favorite from my 28 yr old neighbor just the other day--
Her: I want to apply to graduate school!
Me: That's great! For what?
Her: Oh, I don't know. But I want to live in Arizona so I guess I will go to Arizona state university.
Me: Wait, you don't know what you want to do? What was your undergrad degree?
Her: Psychology, but I don't know if I will like that. I really want to study the body.
Me: Um, ok so you mean you would like to be an MD?
Her: What? I don't know but I like Biology....
Me: I tell you what, why don't you start looking at graduate programs in Arizona and see what makes you happy.
(I'll help her along as much as I can, but I never met someone so full of excitement who had no idea what she should be excited about.)

I think "crazy" is a bit harsh. I would say that as a new grad student these feelings are perfectly normal, but I would not act on them. Try to think about how this new student could inspire you, always search for the bright spot in situations. Don't stress unless the time calls for it.

How has no one mentioned alcohol yet? Get a beer making kit and buy wine by the dozen - you will save bundles of $$. AND don't forget to get some "fast recipe" books too. You really do save money (and eat better) when you cook at home. I also agree with investing in all-in-one LASER printer. Toner costs about $40, but lasts me almost a year.

Coffee supplies are a must, of course, and everyone else has made some great suggestions. Just remember that although you may like being digital, having analog copies can be very helpful. I personally like having digital copies of articles for record keeping and paper copies for notating that I organize in 3" binders. I have a color coded highlighting system that really helps me get through a stack of them in a relatively short period of time. I know I *can* highlight on Adobe Pro, but it just is not as fast and for me, and not as memorable as when it is in my hands.

How has no one mentioned alcohol yet? Get a beer making kit and buy wine by the dozen - you will save bundles of $$. AND don't forget to get some "fast recipe" books too. You really do save money (and eat better) when you cook at home. I also agree with investing in all-in-one LASER printer. Toner costs about $40, but lasts me almost a year.

Coffee supplies are a must, of course, and everyone else has made some great suggestions. Just remember that although you may like being digital, having analog copies can be very helpful. I personally like having digital copies of articles for record keeping and paper copies for notating that I organize in 3" binders. I have a color coded highlighting system that really helps me get through a stack of them in a relatively short period of time. I know I *can* highlight on Adobe Pro, but it just is not as fast and for me, and not as memorable as when it is in my hands.

I think "crazy" is a bit harsh. I would say that as a new grad student these feelings are perfectly normal, but I would not act on them. Try to think about how this new student could inspire you, always search for the bright spot in situations. Don't stress unless the time calls for it.

I'm sorry, but I see no grey area here. I can't imagine any school having "loopholes" to allow this sort of incident, and even if these did exist, to take advantage of them is highly unethical. My first thought jumps to Marc Hauser and I assure you he started his ethical impropriety off small. You are standing on a very slippery slope.

How has no one mentioned alcohol yet? Get a beer making kit and buy wine by the dozen - you will save bundles of $$. AND don't forget to get some "fast recipe" books too. You really do save money (and eat better) when you cook at home. I also agree with investing in all-in-one LASER printer. Toner costs about $40, but lasts me almost a year.

Coffee supplies are a must, of course, and everyone else has made some great suggestions. Just remember that although you may like being digital, having analog copies can be very helpful. I personally like having digital copies of articles for record keeping and paper copies for notating that I organize in 3" binders. I have a color coded highlighting system that really helps me get through a stack of them in a relatively short period of time. I know I *can* highlight on Adobe Pro, but it just is not as fast and for me, and not as memorable as when it is in my hands.

How has no one mentioned alcohol yet? Get a beer making kit and buy wine by the dozen - you will save bundles of $$. AND don't forget to get some "fast recipe" books too. You really do save money (and eat better) when you cook at home. I also agree with investing in all-in-one LASER printer. Toner costs about $40, but lasts me almost a year.

Coffee supplies are a must, of course, and everyone else has made some great suggestions. Just remember that although you may like being digital, having analog copies can be very helpful. I personally like having digital copies of articles for record keeping and paper copies for notating that I organize in 3" binders. I have a color coded highlighting system that really helps me get through a stack of them in a relatively short period of time. I know I *can* highlight on Adobe Pro, but it just is not as fast and for me, and not as memorable as when it is in my hands.

I'm sorry, but I see no grey area here. I can't imagine any school having "loopholes" to allow this sort of incident, and even if these did exist, to take advantage of them is highly unethical. My first thought jumps to Marc Hauser and I assure you he started his ethical impropriety off small. You are standing on a very slippery slope.

Mr. Haviland--
Welcome to the gradcafe.

Please note that over the past fifteen plus years, members of the academic community including professors, administrators, and staff, have become increasingly concerned with the dynamic in which the parents of students interject themselves in the educational processes of their children. The term "helicopter parent," a pejorative, is frequently used as a phrase to capture this dynamic and its disruptive influence within the Ivory Tower.

Please note that many academic departments and their parent institutions have instituted policies to manage this dynamic from the perspective of risk management. In many cases, these policies end up working to the detriment of students. That is, academics are increasingly focused on limiting their exposure to risk (i.e., playing CYA) and they are increasingly disinterested in mentoring undergraduates and graduates alike. (In my own experience as a teaching assistant, it was increasingly difficult to support students who are constantly checking with their parents to see if was is okay to work harder and to develop their critical thinking skills.)

Your decision to assist your son doubtlessly reflects your best intentions as a parent. Nevertheless, please understand that your intervention on his behalf may have unfortunate--but avoidable--consequences. Professors, administrators, and staff compare notes on their perceptions of students. While it takes time to earn a favorable reputation, unfavorable reputations come much more easily.

Therefore, I respectfully request that you consider the utility of recusing yourself permanently from all third party activities on behalf of your son. If he wants copies of his LoRs, let him do the leg work. Graduate school is a very difficult journey. He will doubtlessly benefit from your emotional, psychological, and intellectual support in the coming years. However, the path he's about to take is his and his alone to walk. Please allow him the opportunity to build the knowledge, the skills, and the relationships he will need on this journey by himself.

If you decide to continue on your current path, that is your choice. Please do understand that he will have to bear the consequences (favorable, unfavorable, and unforeseen) of your choices.

I'm sorry, but I see no grey area here. I can't imagine any school having "loopholes" to allow this sort of incident, and even if these did exist, to take advantage of them is highly unethical. My first thought jumps to Marc Hauser and I assure you he started his ethical impropriety off small. You are standing on a very slippery slope.

How has no one mentioned alcohol yet? Get a beer making kit and buy wine by the dozen - you will save bundles of $$. AND don't forget to get some "fast recipe" books too. You really do save money (and eat better) when you cook at home. I also agree with investing in all-in-one LASER printer. Toner costs about $40, but lasts me almost a year.

Coffee supplies are a must, of course, and everyone else has made some great suggestions. Just remember that although you may like being digital, having analog copies can be very helpful. I personally like having digital copies of articles for record keeping and paper copies for notating that I organize in 3" binders. I have a color coded highlighting system that really helps me get through a stack of them in a relatively short period of time. I know I *can* highlight on Adobe Pro, but it just is not as fast and for me, and not as memorable as when it is in my hands.

You got extra money so you needed fewer loans? That doesn't sound like a problem, it sounds like a windfall! (Though I see the irritation at poor planning.)

Cheap laser printer (under $150.00).

Mine has been a LIFESAVER with research. Incredibly cheap to print from. Something like $50.00 for a 5,000 page cartridge - so much cheaper than paying to print.

OOPS! I should mention they were $35 EACH (sorry I was exhausted yesterday)- but still.. that's ridiculously cheap compared to anyone else I checked with. =)
ALSO - you have the option of using fedex freight if your items are just too much to separate into a few tubs.

Potentially. If you wrote a master's thesis/report, he could play "stump the band" when you defend. If your master's requires a written or oral exam, he could potentially approach it as if you were taking qualifying exams for a doctorate. Unless you can document convincingly the process by which you two negotiated the parameters of your defense, it might be very difficult to prove that he's being vindictive.



Do what you can to manage better your emotions over this situation. Focus on the issue (determining a time/place for your defense) and the outcome you prefer (sooner rather than later). Let go of any and all rhetoric/thoughts/actions that do not help you solve the issue.



I strongly recommend that you stop the "Johnson measuring" with this professor. It does not matter who is smarter or who is more ethical or who is a better person. Nor does it matter how many awards you've won. Your impressive record of achievement is not the issue.




What matters is that this professor has something you need and he has power over you until you get your diploma (and maybe even after). I understand that you're upset with this person and that you hold him in low esteem. However, this POI may be an incredible political infighter who has rhetorical, procedural, and psychological tactics beyond your imagination. Treat the person with courtesy and as much respect as you can muster. Do not give this person an opportunity to point to your behavior and say to his peers "See? This is exactly what I'm talking about!"


As things stand, since you intend to leave this program anyways, his peers and the administration have more reasons to take his point of view than yours. Not because he's right and you're wrong, but for the sake of pragmatism.



As you work on managing your state of mind, begin, right away, the process of documenting everything. Archive on storage devices you control every shred of digital communication that you've had with everyone in your department. Take careful notes of every conversation you've had. Make a point to document contemporaneously your state of mind during and after each encounter. In these notes, do not write anything you'd not want to swear to in a court of law. By all means, do not include any revenge fantasies. As fun and as harmless as those may be, they can be used to burn you. (If you can help it, do not have any revenge fantasies other than going on your life and living well.)




Consider the value of the guidance in post #4. However, think thrice before disclosing the details of your situation. Do not lie, do not mislead, or allow your new program to have a mistaken impression. Just keep your discussion of the matter as general as possible and disclose the details as needed. Do not try fight this battle in the court of public opinion either at your current program or your new one. Everyone these days has a lot on their plate--do not add to their burdnes. Moreover, as you've not proven yourself in your new environment, you don't want to give anyone a reason to draw the wrong first impression about you.




One last point. You're in a situation in which you're getting to see the elephant. While it is unfortunate, it, given the nature of the Ivory Tower, may have been inevitable. Eventually, almost everyone gets screwed over by somebody. As best as you can, try not to let this experience embitter you. Do what you can to draw from this experience lessons that will make you a better scholar and a person.




A request. No matter how this situation gets resolved, please, at some point, come back to this BB and let everyone know what you did and how things turned out. This step on your part will allow future graduate students to learn from your experiences.




HTH.

Check Fedex Ground - I once shipped 3 giant tubs (like the ones you have pictured) which weighed roughly 50 pounds each. They all cost $35 to get to CA from TX and were insured for $1000. They arrived safely - I NEVER have problems with fedex.

Bluntly, I think that you need to take a look at your attitude and how it may impact the outcome of this process.

You are going to be discussing a very complicated and controversial issue with people who have power over you. I think it is in your best interest to take your emotions out of the equation. Among the emotions to control are your feelings of victimization, self-righteousness, and anger. It does not matter if you and your cohort are in the right and they are in the wrong. If you communicate with the tone you display in the OP you will not prevail.

If you decide to continue with this process,
Identify the issues you want to address.
Figure out the outcomes you'd prefer.
Figure out the outcomes that are possible.
And then figure out what you can do to close the gap between what you want and what you can get.
That is, manage your expectations. You may want heads on a platter but what may happen is that students will get nothing more than an opportunity to retake the class.



Do not say anything about the individuals you're dealing with either on line or to anyone else that you're not willing to say it directly to those people. If you need to vent, and I suggest you don't, do it with pen and pencil or in an encrypted file. Right now, your emotions are getting the better of you. If you have a talk with people higher up in the food chain with the tone you used in the OP, you are going to undermine your chances for a sustainable resolution to your issue. Do not, under any circumstances, make anything that sounds like a threat, especially if you do not have the power to carry out that threat. If you're set on tearing the temple down, then do it. But do not talk about it. (Make no mistake, I think that this would be an incredibly self destructive act on your part.)

Concurrently, please do take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror. Bluntly, some of what you say you did does not track with who you say you are. You need to figure out these inconsistences before you go into a meeting and say/do something that undermines your credibility and forfeits the high ground. For example, somewhere along the line, you made some pragmatic decisions. But now you're talking about principle. What prompted the transition?

And there are other questions you might consider. Why are you fighting this fight? (It is unclear if you got a poor mark in the second class.) Who are you trying to help? Did they ask you? Are you helping them the way they've asked you? Or are you imposing your solutions on their problems and thereby complicating an already difficult situation? Whose interests and what priorities are driving you right now? Do you want a sustainable solution or do you want revenge? What are you going to do if you can't get either?)

I understand that some of my comments may not be what you expected. You strike me as someone who has what I call a "crusader's mentality." IMO, that isn't such a bad trait to have. However, I urge you to understand the differences between giants and windmills before you grab a lance and charge down the hill. And also understand that being angry can get in the way of being effective. (FWIW, as a hot head, I often say to myself: [sigaba], do you want to be mad or do you want to get the problem solved--because you cannot do both? When I decide to get the problem solved, things tend to turn out a lot better for me.)

HTH.

No idea if anyone has posted this before but it's hilarious
The simpsons on grads

My program goes from being extremely structured in the first year to being quite unstructured starting in the second year. Almost everyone is confused at first and, in fact, falling behind is a serious concern among the faculty in my department (I'm the student rep. so I can tell you it's frequently discussed at faculty meetings). We have deadlines but they are rarely met.

Personally I'm quite good at meeting deadlines - real ones and fake ones. Right now I am the only person in my program who is on schedule (though eventually everyone graduates on time and we have a great placement record). I have short-term and long-term goals which I set in the beginning of the semester. I keep a weekly to-do list, which I update based on my progress, and a semester/~6-month list of all the deadlines I need to meet, divided by date and by topic (abstracts, papers, class presentations, teaching, etc). I usually try to break up large projects into daily-to-weekly assignments which are easily manageable. I wouldn't just set a vague deadline in February because that would make it hard for me to handle. I need to have a clearer picture of the amount of work that needs to be done so that I can spread the load in a more reasonable way. Working last-minute up against a deadline is something that doesn't work well for me, for personal reasons. I sometimes don't feel very well so I can't just wait until the last minute and then cram all the work into a short period of time. Friends often make fun of just how organized I have to be (I write everything down that I need to do, no matter how small, and without my calendar I couldn't tell you where I am going to be tomorrow), but eventually it helps me get more done, I think.

I'm sharing this with you because this is literally what gets me through this waiting process...

Hey guys! I truly appreciate everyone's advice. I think mjj is starting to feel bad, and I just want to point out - it is completely natural for people to interpret situations from their own experiences. If a friend told you about trouble in their relationship, you would probably have completely different advice for them if you were going through a divorce than if you were in a happy relationship. Let's lighten up a bit - if someone has made it to graduate school, let's hope to God they have the mental capacity to decide on their own whether going to the Dean is a good solution in their particular situation. I'm sure that if mjj was directed to the Dean, their situation was exponentially worse than mine!

That said - I've been thinking a lot about this situation. We emailed back and forth all weekend, and I think my presentation is to a good place. However, I think my advisor is really concerned with US making HER look good. I think she wants us to be her, to write like her and speak like her. I don't think that's really fair. I think she should be nurturing our talents, not bulldozing over them to make sure we don't "screw up." I don't mind being pushed to improve, but it's like she's so afraid of us making her look bad, it makes us incredibly nervous. She will visibly get angry at us when we aren't doing well. I'm downright afraid to look at her when I'm giving presentations!

I can bring up her style of editing drafts, but I'm not really sure how to bring up the fact that she makes us so nervous and kills our confidence. I have been talking to her other students and they feel the same way.

Well, thanks again everyone! I'm very grateful for all of the replies. It helps me feel a little more sane :-) Now wish me luck on my presentation tomorrow!!!