Imogene

can we stop infantilizing traditional students by making it sound like an early twenty-something (who may have worked through school) doesnt understand life or cant be just as sure of themselves as you in their chosen life goals?

The other thing that I was thinking about this line of discussion since Swagato's question, is this question in response:
 
Say Swagato (or any of the other folks recently out of undergrad) didn't get in this season, then didn't get in the next season, either.  Then let's say "Swagato"  (used just as an example/name now, not as an actual reference to the person) decides  he/she needs to get a job to pay the bills because 9-12 months is a long time to wait between application/enrollment seasons and, hey, a person needs to eat and live under a roof, right? Or let's even say that Swagato decides that he/she is a little burned out by school and applications, and decides maybe a year break to focus on things other than applications might do him/her good.
 
Let's say this person then gets a reasonable job, say at a publishing firm or a nonprofit, doing somewhat interesting stuff -- editing; communications; social media related work.  It pays the bills and it's just that far from flipping burgers or making cold-call sales work to be justifiable to existence.  So now it's 2-3 years since school, and Swagato has a steady job, no longer has to live off ramen noodles, and starts to get a little comfortable.  Swagato still watches films [if this is his/her field], tries to keep up with some of the current discussions and hot topics in his/her field, and satisfies him/herself that they are keeping intellectually satisfied. Another year or 2 passes of steady job, weekend entertainment, and literature/film studies is now a hobby enjoyed in free time and in conversations with friends, and he/she has at the back of his/her head that he/she'll probably return to academia because that's who he/she is deep down, but for now he/she's making money, building a life, and gaining some interesting experience and knowledge -- including about some literature/film that he/she wouldn't probably have delved into if he/she had been within the confines of the degree program topic area he/she had applied for 3-4 years ago.
 
Then say it's somewhere between 5-7 years out of school, and Swagato is starting to feel that the 9-5 thing is just really not for her/him.  And there are these new film/literature interests he/she's developed in the last year.  Should Swagato consider going back to get his/her PhD?  Wait, he/she is now 5-7 years older than other folks who may be applying -- won't that be a hardship for getting accepted?  And let's say Swagato *does* get accepted, won't the 5-7 (heck, let's say 10) year difference that there might be between him/her and other folks applying for the tenure-track job once through the PhD program be a challenge to landing the job?  
 
Should Swagato give up on his/her preferred career/life choice now, [at age 28-33, say] because of the 5-10 year age difference that might pose a hiring challenge at top schools, and not even try?  Keep grinding out at the 9-5 job because, hey, his/her life is basically over now anyway, or at least set in stone now, right? No way academia has a spot for him/her, and he/she should probably just keep going in a direction that won't ever satisfy him/her, right?
 
Wow, that's a crazy question.  

The other thing that I was thinking about this line of discussion since Swagato's question, is this question in response:
 
Say Swagato (or any of the other folks recently out of undergrad) didn't get in this season, then didn't get in the next season, either.  Then let's say "Swagato"  (used just as an example/name now, not as an actual reference to the person) decides  he/she needs to get a job to pay the bills because 9-12 months is a long time to wait between application/enrollment seasons and, hey, a person needs to eat and live under a roof, right? Or let's even say that Swagato decides that he/she is a little burned out by school and applications, and decides maybe a year break to focus on things other than applications might do him/her good.
 
Let's say this person then gets a reasonable job, say at a publishing firm or a nonprofit, doing somewhat interesting stuff -- editing; communications; social media related work.  It pays the bills and it's just that far from flipping burgers or making cold-call sales work to be justifiable to existence.  So now it's 2-3 years since school, and Swagato has a steady job, no longer has to live off ramen noodles, and starts to get a little comfortable.  Swagato still watches films [if this is his/her field], tries to keep up with some of the current discussions and hot topics in his/her field, and satisfies him/herself that they are keeping intellectually satisfied. Another year or 2 passes of steady job, weekend entertainment, and literature/film studies is now a hobby enjoyed in free time and in conversations with friends, and he/she has at the back of his/her head that he/she'll probably return to academia because that's who he/she is deep down, but for now he/she's making money, building a life, and gaining some interesting experience and knowledge -- including about some literature/film that he/she wouldn't probably have delved into if he/she had been within the confines of the degree program topic area he/she had applied for 3-4 years ago.
 
Then say it's somewhere between 5-7 years out of school, and Swagato is starting to feel that the 9-5 thing is just really not for her/him.  And there are these new film/literature interests he/she's developed in the last year.  Should Swagato consider going back to get his/her PhD?  Wait, he/she is now 5-7 years older than other folks who may be applying -- won't that be a hardship for getting accepted?  And let's say Swagato *does* get accepted, won't the 5-7 (heck, let's say 10) year difference that there might be between him/her and other folks applying for the tenure-track job once through the PhD program be a challenge to landing the job?  
 
Should Swagato give up on his/her preferred career/life choice now, [at age 28-33, say] because of the 5-10 year age difference that might pose a hiring challenge at top schools, and not even try?  Keep grinding out at the 9-5 job because, hey, his/her life is basically over now anyway, or at least set in stone now, right? No way academia has a spot for him/her, and he/she should probably just keep going in a direction that won't ever satisfy him/her, right?
 
Wow, that's a crazy question.  

The other thing that I was thinking about this line of discussion since Swagato's question, is this question in response:
 
Say Swagato (or any of the other folks recently out of undergrad) didn't get in this season, then didn't get in the next season, either.  Then let's say "Swagato"  (used just as an example/name now, not as an actual reference to the person) decides  he/she needs to get a job to pay the bills because 9-12 months is a long time to wait between application/enrollment seasons and, hey, a person needs to eat and live under a roof, right? Or let's even say that Swagato decides that he/she is a little burned out by school and applications, and decides maybe a year break to focus on things other than applications might do him/her good.
 
Let's say this person then gets a reasonable job, say at a publishing firm or a nonprofit, doing somewhat interesting stuff -- editing; communications; social media related work.  It pays the bills and it's just that far from flipping burgers or making cold-call sales work to be justifiable to existence.  So now it's 2-3 years since school, and Swagato has a steady job, no longer has to live off ramen noodles, and starts to get a little comfortable.  Swagato still watches films [if this is his/her field], tries to keep up with some of the current discussions and hot topics in his/her field, and satisfies him/herself that they are keeping intellectually satisfied. Another year or 2 passes of steady job, weekend entertainment, and literature/film studies is now a hobby enjoyed in free time and in conversations with friends, and he/she has at the back of his/her head that he/she'll probably return to academia because that's who he/she is deep down, but for now he/she's making money, building a life, and gaining some interesting experience and knowledge -- including about some literature/film that he/she wouldn't probably have delved into if he/she had been within the confines of the degree program topic area he/she had applied for 3-4 years ago.
 
Then say it's somewhere between 5-7 years out of school, and Swagato is starting to feel that the 9-5 thing is just really not for her/him.  And there are these new film/literature interests he/she's developed in the last year.  Should Swagato consider going back to get his/her PhD?  Wait, he/she is now 5-7 years older than other folks who may be applying -- won't that be a hardship for getting accepted?  And let's say Swagato *does* get accepted, won't the 5-7 (heck, let's say 10) year difference that there might be between him/her and other folks applying for the tenure-track job once through the PhD program be a challenge to landing the job?  
 
Should Swagato give up on his/her preferred career/life choice now, [at age 28-33, say] because of the 5-10 year age difference that might pose a hiring challenge at top schools, and not even try?  Keep grinding out at the 9-5 job because, hey, his/her life is basically over now anyway, or at least set in stone now, right? No way academia has a spot for him/her, and he/she should probably just keep going in a direction that won't ever satisfy him/her, right?
 
Wow, that's a crazy question.  

The other thing that I was thinking about this line of discussion since Swagato's question, is this question in response:
 
Say Swagato (or any of the other folks recently out of undergrad) didn't get in this season, then didn't get in the next season, either.  Then let's say "Swagato"  (used just as an example/name now, not as an actual reference to the person) decides  he/she needs to get a job to pay the bills because 9-12 months is a long time to wait between application/enrollment seasons and, hey, a person needs to eat and live under a roof, right? Or let's even say that Swagato decides that he/she is a little burned out by school and applications, and decides maybe a year break to focus on things other than applications might do him/her good.
 
Let's say this person then gets a reasonable job, say at a publishing firm or a nonprofit, doing somewhat interesting stuff -- editing; communications; social media related work.  It pays the bills and it's just that far from flipping burgers or making cold-call sales work to be justifiable to existence.  So now it's 2-3 years since school, and Swagato has a steady job, no longer has to live off ramen noodles, and starts to get a little comfortable.  Swagato still watches films [if this is his/her field], tries to keep up with some of the current discussions and hot topics in his/her field, and satisfies him/herself that they are keeping intellectually satisfied. Another year or 2 passes of steady job, weekend entertainment, and literature/film studies is now a hobby enjoyed in free time and in conversations with friends, and he/she has at the back of his/her head that he/she'll probably return to academia because that's who he/she is deep down, but for now he/she's making money, building a life, and gaining some interesting experience and knowledge -- including about some literature/film that he/she wouldn't probably have delved into if he/she had been within the confines of the degree program topic area he/she had applied for 3-4 years ago.
 
Then say it's somewhere between 5-7 years out of school, and Swagato is starting to feel that the 9-5 thing is just really not for her/him.  And there are these new film/literature interests he/she's developed in the last year.  Should Swagato consider going back to get his/her PhD?  Wait, he/she is now 5-7 years older than other folks who may be applying -- won't that be a hardship for getting accepted?  And let's say Swagato *does* get accepted, won't the 5-7 (heck, let's say 10) year difference that there might be between him/her and other folks applying for the tenure-track job once through the PhD program be a challenge to landing the job?  
 
Should Swagato give up on his/her preferred career/life choice now, [at age 28-33, say] because of the 5-10 year age difference that might pose a hiring challenge at top schools, and not even try?  Keep grinding out at the 9-5 job because, hey, his/her life is basically over now anyway, or at least set in stone now, right? No way academia has a spot for him/her, and he/she should probably just keep going in a direction that won't ever satisfy him/her, right?
 
Wow, that's a crazy question.  

The other thing that I was thinking about this line of discussion since Swagato's question, is this question in response:
 
Say Swagato (or any of the other folks recently out of undergrad) didn't get in this season, then didn't get in the next season, either.  Then let's say "Swagato"  (used just as an example/name now, not as an actual reference to the person) decides  he/she needs to get a job to pay the bills because 9-12 months is a long time to wait between application/enrollment seasons and, hey, a person needs to eat and live under a roof, right? Or let's even say that Swagato decides that he/she is a little burned out by school and applications, and decides maybe a year break to focus on things other than applications might do him/her good.
 
Let's say this person then gets a reasonable job, say at a publishing firm or a nonprofit, doing somewhat interesting stuff -- editing; communications; social media related work.  It pays the bills and it's just that far from flipping burgers or making cold-call sales work to be justifiable to existence.  So now it's 2-3 years since school, and Swagato has a steady job, no longer has to live off ramen noodles, and starts to get a little comfortable.  Swagato still watches films [if this is his/her field], tries to keep up with some of the current discussions and hot topics in his/her field, and satisfies him/herself that they are keeping intellectually satisfied. Another year or 2 passes of steady job, weekend entertainment, and literature/film studies is now a hobby enjoyed in free time and in conversations with friends, and he/she has at the back of his/her head that he/she'll probably return to academia because that's who he/she is deep down, but for now he/she's making money, building a life, and gaining some interesting experience and knowledge -- including about some literature/film that he/she wouldn't probably have delved into if he/she had been within the confines of the degree program topic area he/she had applied for 3-4 years ago.
 
Then say it's somewhere between 5-7 years out of school, and Swagato is starting to feel that the 9-5 thing is just really not for her/him.  And there are these new film/literature interests he/she's developed in the last year.  Should Swagato consider going back to get his/her PhD?  Wait, he/she is now 5-7 years older than other folks who may be applying -- won't that be a hardship for getting accepted?  And let's say Swagato *does* get accepted, won't the 5-7 (heck, let's say 10) year difference that there might be between him/her and other folks applying for the tenure-track job once through the PhD program be a challenge to landing the job?  
 
Should Swagato give up on his/her preferred career/life choice now, [at age 28-33, say] because of the 5-10 year age difference that might pose a hiring challenge at top schools, and not even try?  Keep grinding out at the 9-5 job because, hey, his/her life is basically over now anyway, or at least set in stone now, right? No way academia has a spot for him/her, and he/she should probably just keep going in a direction that won't ever satisfy him/her, right?
 
Wow, that's a crazy question.  

Honestly: I am much, much more concerned about the people on here who go into a PhD program having never taken time away from formal education than I am of someone in your shoes. I took 5 years between my BA and my MA, and I'm so glad that I did. I think you'll find it's quite common.

I haven't been on gradcafe in a while and missed this, but just wanted to say - yay! happy for you on your decision!  So I assume you're not making the rest of your visits you were planning?

A prospective graduate student in English read 50 pages on a whim?!? Alert the press!

Exactly. Can we start a petition to ban Harold Bloom and his multiple gradcafe accounts?

I think a fair number of people leave town for the summer and take jobs wherever they happen to live. Some people are able to find miscellaneous funding on campus; with a campus this size, there's always jobs to be done. That's more during the semester, but some in the summer as well. (There was a GA available, cataloging and archiving Neil Armstrong's papers... I was tempted.) I think the reading tutoring I talked about is through the Institute of Reading Development.
 
The biggest thing with housing, to my mind, is being able to take a little time and find just what you want. There are some real gems, but you have to sort through a lot of worse places to find them. With 40,000 students and a generally itinerant population, there's lots of incentive for landlords to buy old properties and rent them out without really keeping them up. However, there's also a lot of cool old buildings with a lot of character that you can rent out for cheap. Generally speaking, grad students tend to live over the bridge in Lafayette, undergrads in West Lafayette right near campus. There are exceptions, of course, and I'm not really sure about other departments, but that's how it generally goes. There are two major roadways between the cities, and a lovely pedestrian bridge between them, so it's easy to get between the two towns. People mostly want to avoid living too close to campus if only because it's so undergrad-y; Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night are what you'd expect from all of the undergrad houseshares and the insane number of fraternities. Same thing with the bars: Lafayette's bars are more grownup, West Lafayette's tend toward the undergrad meatmarket type. That's not to say that I'd never live in West Lafayette. There are some great ethnic restaurants and access that close to campus is obviously a plus. One thing you'll find about Lafayette: neighborhoods are very inconsistent. You'll be in a part of town that seems really junky and not the type of place you might want to live, and then you'll go another block and it'll be lovely. You really have to explore and get a sense of what's out there.
 
For context, my own apartment (which I love) is a huge two bedroom, the top floor of a big house, which has a dishwasher, on-floor washer and dryer, a porch, backyard, and off-street parking, two blocks from downtown Lafayette and 30 minutes walk to campus. I pay $750 a month.
 
It's important to say, though, that a lot of people consider Lafayette a drag. It's definitely in the minus column. I do think that some people don't have the context to know what a really small town is like, and it could be a lot worse. I like the bars and restaurants, and there's the farmers market, an independent bookstore, some galleries and shops, and a seemingly unsustainable number of yoga studios. But it's quiet, and small, and you won't meet a lot of people out and about. I've said this before on this board, but I have definitely found Lafayette to be a bigger problem since I became single. Indianapolis is an hour away and Chicago two, and I know some people who head out of town every other weekend or so. I find Lafayette totally doable, but many people report it as a constant frustration.
 
I have actually been living car-free since October. The bus system is very serviceable, particularly for Purdue students, as the school heavily subsidizes the system and uses it as our campus transportation system. (Which is a necessity; if I walked from my office to the tennis courts, it would easily take me over an hour.) It's a bit of a pain to get to the supermarket, and you can expect buses to run 5-10 minutes late, but for a town of this size, it's an impressive system.
 
On your visit, I would take care to check out both West Lafayette and Lafayette in general. Also, try to get a sense of how much you like the campus. I will say: the campus has its own charms, and it's grown on me. But it will never be mistaken for beautiful. If you go to visit that den of sin and avarice, Indiana University's campus in Bloomington, you'll see a gorgeous campus. Purdue's is... functional. The campus mirrors Purdue as a whole: it's a huge, efficient, somewhat impersonal machine for research and education. The departments are modular and distinct, without a lot of crossover for grad students or faculty. Just about everything is brick. The size and monotony can feel alienating. Some of the buildings, such as the student union, are lovely, but almost nowhere is cozy. Make sure you check out the library, which is one of my biggest complaints. Not in terms of resources; the library resources, as with the school's resources in general, are incredible. But they're done the way Purdue does everything: separated and efficient. I think we now have 14 libraries, down from a one-time high of (I think) 24. Each is devoted to separate specialties, with engineering of course having the most. They work fine. But they aren't the kind of places you want to find a cozy corner in and curl up, and there's no major library hub on campus. It can be a bit of a drag.
 
That said... I absolutely love it here. Love it. I have found the faculty and staff to be incredibly engaged and approachable, from the grad director to the professors in my own department to the director of the writing lab to the administrative assistants in the office. The range of classes available, for someone of my interests, is incredible. We have a bunch of great resources like an indigenous and endangered languages lab, a second language acquisition lab, access to Purdue's incredible technological resources, lots of cool events.... I saw the Joffrey Ballet perform the Rite of Spring on campus a couple weekends ago, and if you're into college sports, the Big 10 is pretty crazy (even though our teams aren't good). Moreover, I just find it inspiring to be around so much research and crazy stuff going on. There's a functioning nuclear reactor in the basement of the Electrical Engineering building; awhile back, I was sitting in the union reading to see some undergrads drive a solar car around the corner. Academic stuff, college stuff, I love it.
 
Definitely ask about the numbers when you're here-- ask about job placement rate, time to graduate, percentage of people who complete prelims who end up finishing their dissertation, etc. Chat with TCS people, who will know a lot more than I do about what that program is really like. And more than anything, try to get a sense of the culture and whether you feel like you'd fit in.
 
Oh, and don't walk under the bell tower.

the gods have spoken!! congrats!

So far, I've talked on the phone to a professor (Donna LeCourt) and student from UMass, and I have to say, it sounds like a wonderfully collaborative and supportive environment. Everyone talks so highly about the area, and I'm starting to get a good idea of how the faculty and students interact. I can't wait to visit! 

I trusted my gut on this one. Accepted my top choice's offer today, despite having 7 programs to hear back from. Fit, funding, and being mutual top choices sealed this deal. (I also e-mailed many of the other programs and was told I was either wait listed, rejected, or they wouldn't know until late March/early April.) Acceptance of offer phone call was a little awkward, as I had psyched myself up to call and I think I caught the Prof off guard. "Welcome to the department!" Woohoo!

You should just put them on there and if anyone questions you, be like "Um, those are totes legitimate, so suck it."

Hey guys -- I created an updated spreadsheet based on greekdaph's question list, and was going to upload it/share it here, but I can NOT figure out how to post an attachment -- I found in my profile where to manage attachments that have already been uploaded, and see in the help files directions about uploading (which are not helpful because it starts from "click the button to upload"), but don't see the option to upload files in these posts or on my profile.  Sorries.
 
If attachment is a feature still possible on these forums and anyone wants to see my spreadsheet for example and/or to skip the work of creating your own, then please to provide me with some attachment help .
 
 

Does it matter? Will we take the day off from worrying if they do?

Whoever is interviewing you wants to know that you have put serious thought into your decision.  Their feeling is that it might be a decision that requires more thought that just the span of time you have in an interview.  I would express a high level of interest - speak to your desire to work in a specific area of research/focus, perhaps even suggest that there are a lot of positives for you to move to that area, to continue your studies in whatever program there... etc.  I personally would keep away from basically handing them the blank check on your acceptance.  Let them pursue you, too. 

Bump for 2013

Been reading this once a day.

Congrats, Pim! Brown is freaking amazing.
 
Exactly 3 years ago today I received my first MFA/MA rejection from the University of Wyoming. I remember this because it is my birthday (one more small hint of exactly who I am forever cemented on the internet). That was pretty crappy. But today I got notification that I've been awarded a fellowship at Buffalo, so... best present possible. 

OH MY GOD YOU GUYS MY COFFEE CHANGED THIS IS THE BEST VALENTINE'S DAY EVER!!!!!

Fantastic! now go update your signature! 

IN AT RIVERSIDE!!!!

I'm so sorry for your loss, dear.  That must have made this process extra, extra, extra emotional.  Good on you for surviving and, I betcha, thriving.