Living on a stipend

[Glanton]

Hey all,

I got a way early acceptance call from my best fit (though least prestigious) possible program on March 1! I was totally caught off guard, partially due to the fact that I hadn't expected to hear anything for several weeks, and partially because I'd almost forgotten about the applications--I'm a busy man.

So anyway, they offered me a full ride, as it were, plus a halfway decent stipend--or what seemed like a halfway decent stipend while I was on the phone. The more I think about it, the more I'm wondering if I'll be able to live on it. I currently live in Brooklyn and make 20K more a year than they're offering me. The school is in little town Ohio, so rent would likely be a little less than half what I pay here, but I've been working in the private sector for 2 years and my fiancee and I have become accustomed to a certain standard of living. I'm very worried about not being able to make it work on that amount of dough.

I've got applications in at two other schools, one of which is here in New York and offers substantially more cash, but which is also a total reach for me. The school at which I've already been accepted is a good fit, and my lady and I are both enamored of the idea of spending two years there... So I guess what I'm asking is: is it at all acceptable to reply to the offer by saying you'd love to attend, but can't swing it at that pay rate? Or are these things pretty much set in stone? I'm giving it 3-4 weeks to see if I hear back from my other two choices, but I'd love the peace of mind of knowing that I could make this initial offer work for me somehow.

Thanks!

[eastcoastdude123]

I have no idea how to play, and I'm interested to see what others say, but I think that most graduate students, in all parts of the country manage to make it on whatever stipend they get. One of my best friends just finished his master's degree and he lived off of a small stipend for two years. Granted, he's single without any kids, but he still made enough to go to the grocery store, buy things he wanted, and have a social life. I guess instead of drinking Bud Light you'll have to switch to Natural Light (or, if I get in, I'll have to go from Natural Light to Busch Ice). I don't know the specifics of your stipend, but you make it sound like its decent, and the standard of living in Ohio is a whole lot lower than New York City.

Best of luck to you!

[mrb]

Grad students are proverbially poor. I don't think there's any way around this unless you are independently wealthy. Yes, this will require some lifestyle changes. But thousands of people do just fine on grad student stipends every year.

[RomulusAugustulus]

I don't know where in Ohio you would be moving. But I lived in small town in Ohio for college, and the rent was ridiculously cheap. Of course, I didn't live any where fancy, but my rent was 200 a month. I would guess that the nicer houses there were only 2-3 times that (depending on how much nicer). So, my guess is you should be fine. You should talk to the other grad students there though, and see what their opinions of living on that stipend are.

[red_crayons]

Where you live can really affect how much you spend.

When I go to the city, I spend more because there's more that's worth buying. Manhattan and Brooklyn and the whole region has lots of great restaurants and markets that I actually want to eat at. I know when I go down there, I'm going to spend a lot on eating out. Where I live upstate, there are only 2-3 restaurants worth going to at any given time, so I don't go out to eat that much. The same thing goes for clothes, or other things you might buy. I don't have an H&M in my town, so when I walk by 3 in one hour in Manhattan, I'll probably stop in and stock up for the long stretches I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere. There's not likely to be much you'll WANT to buy in a small Ohio town, so you won't bother buying as much as you might in the city, and you'll end up spending less.

Then there are the other students. When I was friends with undergrads living off mummy and daddy - even after I had started working to support myself - I spent a lot of money going to the two nice bars in town, or getting take out every day with my friends. Now that my friends are mostly grad students or young professionals paying off loans, there are a lot more brunch potlucks, movie nights, and sharing bottles of wine rather than buying drinks in a bar.

I guess I could be getting friendly with law or business students who have similar social lives (and budgets) as my undergrad friends did, but I don't cross paths with many of them. Through chance and common interests, I've become friends with English and Writing students who have stipends with which to support themselves. They live cheaply, and since I spend time with them, I end up living more cheaply than I did in the past (fewer restaurants, fewer bars, fewer nights out), when I had different friends with different standards.

[Medievalmaniac]

It all depends on what you are willing to do to achieve your dreams.

I am currently working a job that pays me just short of 50K a year. I can guarantee you no graduate school is going to pony up enough to meet that salary. And we barely make ends meet as it is because of student loans and credit card debt and a mortgage...seems like it's always two steps forward, one step back.

If you don't have a mortgage or kids, then I think if you really want this degree, you'd be brain-dead to say "well, we can't buy the clothes we want or the organic produce we prefer, so I'm turning down your (excellent, by the way) offer of admission with full funding in favor of continuing to live the life to which we have become accustomed."

From my point of view, and mine alone, I would love to be only engaged, without kids, with that offer on the table. I wouldn't blink twice, in fact. In the end, you have to decide what's more important - the work and eventually the degree you want so badly - or the surf 'n' turf at Outback once a week. No one else can make that choice for you. But I will tell you - when you do have a family, the stakes are higher and the choice is much harder.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Medievalmaniac

[mudlark]

What are you specifically worried about, budget-wise? As a grad student, I've lived on anything from $15000-$45000 a year, and always made it work. I don't want to go back to $15K, but it wasn't so bad when it was only for a year or two. Living off of fresh veggies and beans and ditching expensive food like meat, cheese, most packaged stuff, etc makes a huge difference, as does taking transit or riding a bike if possible instead of driving. Drinking less and going out for fewer meals is also big, but something that you can indulge in from time to time.

ETA: You can sometimes bargain for more money if you have a better competing offer. Asking for more money simply because you want it will NOT go over well. Clearly, you don't deserve more money than other students who are used to student poverty simply because you've had a nice run for a few years. I know that you mean well, but the potential for misinterpretation here is huge. Everyone on the adcom has lived off a crap stipend, and they won't see being used to nice things as a good reason to up a package.

[rogue]

So I guess what I'm asking is: is it at all acceptable to reply to the offer by saying you'd love to attend, but can't swing it at that pay rate? Or are these things pretty much set in stone?

I'm guessing that you're applying to master's programs, since you mentioned being there for two years. From my understanding, it's pretty unusual for master's students to be funded, especially full tuition remission + a stipend, and in the humanities to boot. I can't imagine them reacting favorably to you asking for more money. But then again, I'm in the social sciences and applied to Ph.D. programs, so this is sort of outside my realm.

[chimerical]

Being a graduate student almost always means living quite frugally. Without outside funding or wealth, that's pretty much inevitable, even on the most generous of stipends. Simply being used to a nicer lifestyle is not a valid reason to ask for more money and won't be viewed favorably by the program.

My suggestion would be to talk to current students on the same or similar stipends to get a sense of how workable it is. Also take a close look at cost-of-living differences between the school's location and Brooklyn. My feeling is that the difference between a small town in Ohio and Brooklyn will be substantial enough that a $20k drop won't actually be a huge deal.

[Glanton]

Thanks for the replies, friends. I realize now that I came off as a total entitled asshole in that initial post, and an entitled asshole is right at the top of the list of things I never wanted to be.

I worked my _ass_ off during my undergrad--averaged 40 hours a week on top of a full time class schedule, then was able to cut down to part time work in my senior year due to some scholarships. I still ended up in pretty substantial (~30K) debt. After finishing at Ohio U, my lady and I pulled up stakes and moved to NYC, where we both got great jobs--this was months before the collapse in '08. Since then we've both gotten pretty good raises, and while I'm not making stupid money, I'm making more than I've ever had in my life. I applied to grad programs in English lit more for personal edification than career advancement, since I know I can get a good job with just my BA and solid work history. Since my future plans don't hinge on a career in academia (you'd have to be much braver or foolhardy than myself to pin your fortune to that in this kinda marketplace), I felt comfortable throughout the application process and was definitely not fretting getting some rejection letters this spring.

Now that I've gotten an offer, I think I'm just second guessing myself for the sake of it. 15k and a full tuition waiver is a great offer for a masters program and I know it. I could potentially get my MA without going one cent further into debt, and that's an opportunity many would kill for. But I still feel like I _am_ worth more: I bit and clawed and scratched my way through college making barely more than minimum wage, essentially holding down two full time jobs (class & work-work), and got a good job right out of school which pays decently. It's always been my intention to get an advanced degree, and ~2 years in the private sector have definitely dulled my enthusiasm for working 9-5 for the rest of my life. I'd love to teach American lit at the college level, but I've got no illusions as to what the prospects for solid well-paying positions are in the humanities right now. In a way, this feels like a step back.

Sorry for the scumbled-together mess there. Lot of things to consider right now, obviously. I'm 90% sure I'll take the offer from Miami U (in Oxford, OH), but if I got a better offer from OSU or NYU, is it at all appropriate to come back and say, "Hey, these two schools are higher ranked and offering me more money, but I like your program best. Is there anything you can do for me to make your school more attractive?"

Thanks again, and sorry for the public hand wringing.

[red_crayons]

I worked my _ass_ off during my undergrad--averaged 40 hours a week on top of a full time class schedule, then was able to cut down to part time work in my senior year due to some scholarships. I still ended up in pretty substantial (~30K) debt. After finishing at Ohio U, my lady and I pulled up stakes and moved to NYC, where we both got great jobs--this was months before the collapse in '08. Since then we've both gotten pretty good raises, and while I'm not making stupid money, I'm making more than I've ever had in my life. I applied to grad programs in English lit more for personal edification than career advancement, since I know I can get a good job with just my BA and solid work history. Since my future plans don't hinge on a career in academia (you'd have to be much braver or foolhardy than myself to pin your fortune to that in this kinda marketplace), I felt comfortable throughout the application process and was definitely not fretting getting some rejection letters this spring.

That's almost identical to my experience. Good luck!

Honestly, being in a different environment will help you make the changes you need to live on your stipend. If you're really worried, though, having a work history can give you more options for plugging the financial gaps. Depending on your work, perhaps you could do some freelance work in your current field? Maybe you could jump in on a project or two with your current/old company by telecommuting? Maybe there are consulting or tutoring opportunities that you would be particularly suited for given your work experience?

Coming out of a professional position, you might be able to set up a business plan with less effort than someone with similar interests/academic background who has only been in academia. It's not ideal to work as a student, but... I guess I just want to reinforce what you already said: You have what it takes to hold down a job, and this gives you more options for supporting yourself than if you were coming directly out of school.

FWIW, I'm getting a decent stipend, but I'm still super paranoid about money as a student. Since I'm starting a program where I already live, I'm reviving some contacts at side jobs I had in the past to see if I could work/volunteer outside of the university. That way I could get a little extra money, if necessary, or improve my profile for future employers by volunteering in a field that appeals to me (and is related to my grad work). There's nothing wrong with trying to establish contacts now, before you go to Ohio, to set up back up options, just in case.

Plus, for me, making these kinds of connections and plans helps me focus on solutions, rather than just needlessly worrying about future possibilities.

[poppyensemble]

I'll be heading to graduate school in the fall and was wondering how difficult it is to make things work on a grad school stipend.

In the abstract the stipend seems fairly generous to me, as long as I resist the urge to splurge on things; but I do realise I might be somewhat detached from the 'real world' after spending four years on a tiny college campus... where I eat at a cafeteria everyday, don't get landed with utilities bills, don't pay for public transport regularly etc. The grad student lifestyle horror stories don't help ease my worst fears either. : )

More specifically, how far would 27,000 a year go in Boston? Or 23,000 in New York?

I guess I just want to be mentally prepared.

Any input, or advice and suggestions on living economically-but-not-miserably in these places, would be deeply appreciated!

[cgking]

$27,000/year isn't terrible in Boston if you have roommates. I live in a decent part of Cambridge now with two roommates, and our rent for a 3-br (heat/hot water included) is $1750/month. Public transportation's fine and not that expensive, and there are plenty of cheap restaurants and bars.

$23,000/year in NYC sounds terrible, but I hope it's doable, because that's what I'll be getting

[foyo]

Just think...In Ohio, many schools' stipends are between $13K and $18K. Although cost of living is lower, it isn't THAT much lower as an apartment (even shared) eats up most of that.

[fuzzylogician]

I get around 24,000 in Boston (Cambridge, to be exact) and that's more than enough for me. It partly depends on your lifestyle and what you expect to be able to afford. I don't own a car, but I made a point of finding a large room that's accessible from the T. I don't mind spending a bit more on rent. I don't go out much and I'm not a big spender, but I can afford to buy myself whatever I like when I feel like it (which happens every so often). I can afford a plane-ticket home ($1300+) at least once a year. I cook at home and bring food with me to the office -- eating out can be a large expense. A monthly public transport ticket is $30, which is not so bad. My utilities aren't that expensive either. Really the biggest expense is rent, since my health insurance and tuition are being payed by my department.

I guess if you've never done this before, living an "adult life" can be hard in the beginning. It's not so much the specific budget, which at least for Boston I think is very doable, it's just the different responsibilities you'll have that you never even knew existed before. That said, people have successfully done it before, and there is no reason why you can't.

[jacib]

$15,000 is a lot. Adjusted for cost of living, it's higher than most of the "top" stipends. I made a few handy charts to compare:

Northwestern's PhD stipend in the humanities is $20,928 and to get the same level of living in Athens, OH (I'm too lazy to redo it with Oxford) compared with Chicago, IL you'd only need $13,890. If you still have debt, well then the calculus might be different. Anyway, I linked to a cost of living calculator on the above post, or you can just google one. Play around with the numbers.

And yes, it is entirely appropriate with an offer in hand to ask for it. I just went to a visiting weekend, and the head of the department was asking one student he wanted particularly badly "What did (another department) offer you? What can we do to be more competitive?" And the student was like, "Well... they offered me a computer stipend...." I don't know if she'll get it, but the schools know. It'll just be hard for most schools to find more money for you this year.

Edited March 3, 2010 by jacib

[Str2T]

I think it really depends on where you live and the amount of the stipend. I made it on $10,000 a year (plus optional summer "funding" and additional paying opportunities with in the department = $15,000-20,000) in the midwest for my MFA program. Breakdown: $800 a month rent, full tuition reimbursement (minus student fees <$300 per semester), $300 a year parking, and amazon.com for used books. Food and health insurance when affordable.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Str2T

[Glanton]

That's fantastic way of putting it into perspective, thank you kindly!

[kdilks]

Another thing you might want to keep in mind is initial costs. There's a lot of stuff that you'll need right off the bat, and your stipend just slowly trickles in over time. If your apartment is unfurnished, you'll have to buy a bed, a desk, a dresser, something resembling a kitchen table, chairs, maybe a couch. If you've been eating in the cafeteria, now you'll need your own plates, bowls, silverware, pots, pans, baking sheets, measuring cups/spoon, other utensils, etc. There's also general things like a shower curtain, plunger, cleaning products, etc. that you might not have needed in the dorms but have to buy. Then you have moving costs, buying books for the semester, stocking your kitchen for the first time, student fees, etc. So that's something you want to make sure you're prepared for, and take into account before you just divide your stipend by 12 and think that's how much you'll have for monthly expenses.

[purplepepper]

Yes, as everyone has said, it all depends on lifestyle. My husband and I are living off my stipend for the moment, and we make it work (though barely) each month without having to starve ourselves or live like hermits. And we have a car. Half the stipend goes to rent, his health insurance, and utilities. We do not eat out and we do not go to bars. Or maybe like once a month. And we don't really need to, as these days you can buy a relatively drinkable and decent bottle of wine for $3. I also usually bring my lunch to school. I think all together we probably spend about $800/month when no other expenses come up.

A few hundred extra dollars a month would really really help so we could add to our savings, but I suppose that will come with time when he finds a job.

Off the bat expenses will be more than you think.

With that being said, I cannot imagine living in NY with a stipend of $23,000...and I think that might be impossible with a family

So, in the end everyone's expenses are different. It all just depends on your lifestyle and how you manage your money. It's doable if you really put your mind to it.

[StrangeLight]

i survive in pittsburgh on 18K a year. cost of living is low. i pay $600/month for rent including basic utilities, i live on my own in a pretty big apartment in a cool mixed-income neighbourhood. it's manageable for sure, yet i always feel the pinch at the end of the month (possibly because they take much more in tax than i had thought they would at my income level, and i didn't budget for it).

i don't think 23K in new york is doable unless you have a few roommates and/or live outside of manhattan. you really don't want to spend more than half your paycheque on rent, and 1/3 is more ideal. say they take $200 in taxes each month (they do with my tiny stipend, shockingly, so i imagine they would with yours as well), that leaves you with $1700/month. you'll want to spend $850 or less (including your basic utilities) on rent. doable in some parts of brooklyn or queens or jersey, far more difficult in manhattan, even with roommates. it's just hard to find something for that price.

[limeinthecoconut]

Ok, I do need some advice. I am an international student, so I have zero clue about what I am signing up for, in terms of cost of living. How livable is Seattle on 15k?

[mudlark]

Thanks for the replies, friends. I realize now that I came off as a total entitled asshole in that initial post, and an entitled asshole is right at the top of the list of things I never wanted to be.

Hey, that's what the internet is for: trying ideas out on strangers. It must be very frustrating to submit yourself to a funding rubric that doesn't reflect the criteria by which you evaluate your own worth (ie, a rubric that sees a slacker who got a full parental ride as equal to you if their academic profile is the same). Obviously you've worked very hard. I think the trick will be to separate the value you place on your own work ethic and achievements from your stipend. Your personal qualities will make you a better grad student, a better husband, a better person. They just won't necessarily get you more money in this case. And that's fine, because you'll be reaping the rewards of your work long after you've forgotten the names of the most maddeningly lazy members of your cohort who got the same money as you for two years. If you feel you deserve more, keep working where the qualities you value in yourself and the qualities that determine income are in sync.

And yes, if you get better offers, you can sometimes start a bidding war. It's great fun.

[Matilda_Tone]

I’m going on $17,000 in a small city, and finding it no trouble at all. Though I suppose not being in a major metropolitan area and getting really lucky with my accommodation has helped. I think it would be difficult if I had any dependents, but since it is just me things are fine- am even optimistic that I will have enough money left to pop over to Europe later this year.

[snarky]

The answer to this will depend on a lot of things, I think. Are you willing to live in a house/apartment with other people, where you rent just one room? Or do you want to have your own apartment (if you have your own place, do you need a studio or 1 bedroom)? Having your own place means higher rent as well as higher utilities (you have nobody to split costs with). Also, do you go out to eat a lot, or can you make your own meals at home? Will you have car payments, car insurance, gas expenses?

I used to live in Santa Cruz, CA on about $13k/year in my undergrad, lived in a shared apt, and mostly made my own food but also ate out sometimes. I saved some money on rent by living further from campus and commuting. It wasn't a glamorous lifestyle, but it was doable. I could not have afforded my own apartment, though, and I didn't have much money for shopping, travel etc. Then again, I wasn't really used to having money for this, so it didn't bother me that much back then. It would bother me much more now, after having made a normal salary in the work world, to have to live on that amount of money -- my standards have gotten higher I suppose. Also, grad school is a lot more hectic than undergrad, so you will have less free time, and I find that I spend more money when I have more free time. Last semester I spent so much of my weekend studying that I really didn't spend very much money at all except for on rent, groceries, utilities.

I think $27k/year is more than doable in most US cities, although obviously in places like NY/LA/SF you will get a lot less for that money than in small towns or in the midwest. $15k in Seattle might be a bit more of a crunch (I would guess the cost of living is similar to Santa Cruz), but if you love the school and are OK with living a more budget-conscious lifestyle, I think that amount would be fine.