What are your career goals?

[doctormelody]

Apparently I am a moron and didn't realize "clinical" doesn't necessarily mean "therapy." I was informed of this discrepancy in my thinking by a kind redditor who quickly disabused me of the notion that the easiest path towards becoming a therapist is to pursue an MSW. Guys, I don't know what to do. I feel so stupid. I really love the social justice aspect of MSW programs, and I am interested in exploring the root causes of societal problems, but... I don't know. Is becoming a therapist with your MSW really that hard to do? I know you have to complete many hours of supervision in order to get your LCSW - I'm not in the dark about everything - but I just didn't even realize that this isn't the route most people take. Both of my most recent therapists have been LCSWs and I'm pretty sure that's what I want to do, but now I'm incredibly intimidated and wondering if I should consider counseling or MFT programs. Does anyone have any thoughts on this dilemma? What are your career goals, and how to do you plan to use the MSW to achieve them?

[ML878]

1 hour ago, doctormelody said:

Apparently I am a moron and didn't realize "clinical" doesn't necessarily mean "therapy." I was informed of this discrepancy in my thinking by a kind redditor who quickly disabused me of the notion that the easiest path towards becoming a therapist is to pursue an MSW. Guys, I don't know what to do. I feel so stupid. I really love the social justice aspect of MSW programs, and I am interested in exploring the root causes of societal problems, but... I don't know. Is becoming a therapist with your MSW really that hard to do? I know you have to complete many hours of supervision in order to get your LCSW - I'm not in the dark about everything - but I just didn't even realize that this isn't the route most people take. Both of my most recent therapists have been LCSWs and I'm pretty sure that's what I want to do, but now I'm incredibly intimidated and wondering if I should consider counseling or MFT programs. Does anyone have any thoughts on this dilemma? What are your career goals, and how to do you plan to use the MSW to achieve them?

I’m interested in pursuing the clinical track but not necessarily interested in therapy—I am still open to it and would like to take classes in it. But in terms of career goals, I’m interested in medical social work and I think that’s more a mix of case management, advocacy, and maybe some therapy? But it’s not a big component as far as I know. And long term, I’d be interested in management or supervision roles, maybe program management or something like that. I want to get a MSW because of the social justice focus and how versatile it is. I can decide to get a LCSW and open a private practice if I choose to go that route. I can go into policy work (though may be a bit harder since my focus isn’t macro). I can definitely eventually land in some sort of non profit administration role, at least combined with my current professional experience. And I think direct practice will help ground me/give me the credibility I’d need to eventually serve communities in a more macro way.

As for your career goals, a MSW can definitely get you there. I don’t know enough about the other degrees to speak to how much easier it is to get into therapy, but from what I’ve heard, the other degrees are more limiting/less transferable. If you ever decided therapy was no longer for you, it may be more difficult to make a career switch, whereas with a MSW, I think the options are just broader. So you lose the specialization that a MFT may give you, but you gain marketability with a MSW, especially if you want to keep your options open. That’s just my take on it, and why a MSW is personally a better fit for my interests. Hopefully others can chime in too! I know it’s easy to second guess yourself, but you were drawn to the MSW program for a reason, so try not to lose sight of that!

[doctormelody]

56 minutes ago, ML878 said:

I’m interested in pursuing the clinical track but not necessarily interested in therapy—I am still open to it and would like to take classes in it. But in terms of career goals, I’m interested in medical social work and I think that’s more a mix of case management, advocacy, and maybe some therapy? But it’s not a big component as far as I know. And long term, I’d be interested in management or supervision roles, maybe program management or something like that. I want to get a MSW because of the social justice focus and how versatile it is. I can decide to get a LCSW and open a private practice if I choose to go that route. I can go into policy work (though may be a bit harder since my focus isn’t macro). I can definitely eventually land in some sort of non profit administration role, at least combined with my current professional experience. And I think direct practice will help ground me/give me the credibility I’d need to eventually serve communities in a more macro way.

As for your career goals, a MSW can definitely get you there. I don’t know enough about the other degrees to speak to how much easier it is to get into therapy, but from what I’ve heard, the other degrees are more limiting/less transferable. If you ever decided therapy was no longer for you, it may be more difficult to make a career switch, whereas with a MSW, I think the options are just broader. So you lose the specialization that a MFT may give you, but you gain marketability with a MSW, especially if you want to keep your options open. That’s just my take on it, and why a MSW is personally a better fit for my interests. Hopefully others can chime in too! I know it’s easy to second guess yourself, but you were drawn to the MSW program for a reason, so try not to lose sight of that!

Thank you so much for responding! I think you bring up some great points and the lack of versatility with an MFT or MS in Counseling does concern me. I just kind of feel like I missed something when I was doing research on this degree, and that's not a great way to feel when I've basically restructured my whole life around it. Idk if that makes any sense. 

[zoetrope]

I want to pursue clinical casework. I'm not exactly sure in which setting yet, but a few interests are: independent organizations that monitor prison conditions, prisons/jails themselves, organizations that assist incarcerated or recently incarcerated individuals, hospitals, and inpatient psychiatric wards. My general population interest is people with mental illness.

But, I like that with a social work degree (especially the one I'll likely be pursuing at UChicago) I'll have the option to explore non-profit administration/ leadership roles if I want to. For example, if clinical work ends up being too emotionally overwhelming, I could pivot to non-clinical roles. My partner is an LPC and I am intimately familiar with the burnout and compassion fatigue that can accompany clinical work. I hope this won't be the case for me-- and I feel strongly that being a clinician is my calling-- but I'm glad to have that amount of flexibility, which I wouldn't quite have with, say, a counseling degree. I also feel like it's possible that I might do both kinds of work at different points in my career, or even simultaneously, who knows?

I'm not ruling out psychotherapy or private practice. My background and interests are actually pretty psychodynamic (I wrote my undergrad thesis on Jung and have a long-term interest in depth psychology). Overall, I just feel like a social work degree offers a lot of versatility and that really appeals to me.

If you're positive you want to be a therapist, there are of course a lot of great counseling MA programs out there to look into. I think it just depends on your goals and, to some extent, the types of clients you want to work with. I specifically want to work with people who need help the most, many of whom might be too severely ill or lack the resources for traditional psychotherapy. A lot of people would prefer to work with higher functioning clients, and the nature of that work is quite different.

Just my impressions, I'm by no means an expert! Still figuring this stuff out too.

Edited February 4, 2019 by zoetrope

[doctormelody]

1 hour ago, zoetrope said:

I want to pursue clinical casework. I'm not exactly sure in which setting yet, but a few interests are: independent organizations that monitor prison conditions, prisons/jails themselves, organizations that assist incarcerated or recently incarcerated individuals, hospitals, and inpatient psychiatric wards. My general population interest is people with mental illness.

But, I like that with a social work degree (especially the one I'll likely be pursuing at UChicago) I'll have the option to explore non-profit administration/ leadership roles if I want to. For example, if clinical work ends up being too emotionally overwhelming, I could pivot to non-clinical roles. My partner is an LPC and I am intimately familiar with the burnout and compassion fatigue that can accompany clinical work. I hope this won't be the case for me-- and I feel strongly that being a clinician is my calling-- but I'm glad to have that amount of flexibility, which I wouldn't quite have with, say, a counseling degree. I also feel like it's possible that I might do both kinds of work at different points in my career, or even simultaneously, who knows?

I'm not ruling out psychotherapy or private practice. My background and interests are actually pretty psychodynamic (I wrote my undergrad thesis on Jung and have a long-term interest in depth psychology). Overall, I just feel like a social work degree offers a lot of versatility and that really appeals to me.

If you're positive you want to be a therapist, there are of course a lot of great counseling MA programs out there to look into. I think it just depends on your goals and, to some extent, the types of clients you want to work with. I specifically want to work with people who need help the most, many of whom might be too severely ill or lack the resources for traditional psychotherapy. A lot of people would prefer to work with higher functioning clients, and the nature of that work is quite different.

Just my impressions, I'm by no means an expert! Still figuring this stuff out too.

Thanks so much for responding! I, too, fear burnout and would like to have other options. Also there are some loan forgiveness programs that I doubt would be accessible to me as a counselor, such as the National Health Service Corps and PSLF. Does anyone have any info on this?

I am definitely leaning heavily towards social work, especially since I have already applied and been accepted, but it does concern me that there seems to be almost a... stigma? Maybe that's too strong a word? -  around having a goal of going into private practice. Is it just because this is seen as a way to make more money? I honestly am so confused by this. I would like to help people that really need it, but I guess I'm confused as to how I would do that as a clinical social worker other than in a therapy setting? Does anyone have any insight?

[a.s.]

There are a dozen different ways someone can become a therapist and social work (as an LCSW or LICSW, whatever the state chooses to call it) is only one option. I think it is up to personal preference towards methods of practice and ideologies or acceptances into programs that determine which is best for someone to do. A LMFT or LMHC are definitely alternative options but so is a medical degree where you can specialize in psychiatry. There is no one correct or true path. Does social work have stigma? Yeah, it is assumed all social workers steal children from their parents but it is an incredibly broad field. It is up to you to determine which is the best option for you. I prefer social work because there is an emphasis on social justice, the big picture of someone's life, and strengths perspective is huge as well. It is easy to have doubts about if you are following the right path but try to not let people on the internet steer your life one direction or the other. I think it would be helpful for you to speak to people with different titles as therapists (LCSW, LMFT, and LMHC being three common licensure titles/options) or just researching how they compare. I think LCSWs do make the most out of the three that I mentioned but each also seems to have a different sector that they fit in best. A lot of places do seem to prefer LCSWs because of the rigor of training required by the CSWE for a degree and licensure. My understanding is that you do not come from a social work background and I think all of these things I have said are more known once being part of the academic setting or profession. My bad if I rambled but I tried to cover a lot.

 

Anyways, my career goals are to work in academia both teaching and conducting research. I am getting my MSW because it is required by the CSWE to teach within an accredited program in the manner I wish to do. I know I could have gone into say sociology or law (I argue well, apparently) but I love the perspectives that are unique to social work. There may be a stigma around it but I would go insane if I tried to please everyone so I focus on what will make me happiest when choosing where my career will go. Clinical vs macro can have such huge meanings because of how broad social work can be but at the end of the day, I have the kind of brain for macro work so the research side is best for me. I have done case management and I have enjoyed that as well but I do not see that as a long-term commitment beyond my current year of studies. My placement next year for an internship will likely be policy because this is an area I do not have experience in yet but I could never do therapy. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by a.s.
corrected spelling, oops

[doctormelody]

29 minutes ago, a.s. said:

There are a dozen different ways someone can become a therapist and social work (as an LCSW or LICSW, whatever the state chooses to call it) is only one option. I think it is up to personal preference towards methods of practice and ideologies or acceptances into programs that determine which is best for someone to do. A LMFT or LMHC are definitely alternative options but so is a medical degree where you can specialize in psychiatry. There is no one correct or true path. Does social work have stigma? Yeah, it is assumed all social workers steal children from their parents but it is an incredibly broad field. It is up to you to determine which is the best option for you. I prefer social work because there is an emphasis on social justice, the big picture of someone's life, and strengths perspective is huge as well. It is easy to have doubts about if you are following the right path but try to not let people on the internet steer your life one direction or the other. I think it would be helpful for you to speak to people with different titles as therapists (LCSW, LMFT, and LMHC being three common licensure titles/options) or just researching how they compare. I think LCSWs do make the most out of the three that I mentioned but each also seems to have a different sector that they fit in best. A lot of places do seem to prefer LCSWs because of the rigor of training required by the CSWE for a degree and licensure. My understanding is that you do not come from a social work background and I think all of these things I have said are more known once being part of the academic setting or profession. My bad if I rambled but I tried to cover a lot.

 

Anyways, my career goals are to work in academia both teaching and conducting research. I am getting my MSW because it is required by the CSWE to teach within an accredited program in the manner I wish to do. I know I could have gone into say sociology or law (I argue well, apparently) but I love the perspectives that are unique to social work. There may be a stigma around it but I would go insane if I tried to please everyone so I focus on what will make me happiest when choosing where my career will go. Clinical vs macro can have such huge meanings because of how broad social work can be but at the end of the day, I have the kind of brain for macro work so the research side is best for me. I have done case management and I have enjoyed that as well but I do not see that as a long-term commitment beyond my current year of studies. My placement next year for an internship will likely be policy because this is an area I do not have experience in yet but I could never do therapy. 

I'm sorry, I meant like a stigma within the field (like, amongst social workers) against those who choose to go into private practice! Does that make sense? Sorry if I phrased it in a confusing way. I'm just had several social workers that I've spoken to speak kind of disdainfully of those who go into their MSW degree with the goal of becoming a therapist in private practice, and I'm not sure why this is the case.

Thanks for all the info! It was very helpful.

[a.s.]

Just now, doctormelody said:

I'm sorry, I meant like a stigma within the field (like, amongst social workers) against those who choose to go into private practice! Does that make sense? Sorry if I phrased it in a confusing way. I'm just had several social workers that I've spoken to speak kind of disdainfully of those who go into their MSW degree with the goal of becoming a therapist in private practice, and I'm not sure why this is the case.

Thanks for all the info! It was very helpful.

I haven't experienced or seen any stigma against social workers going into private practice. I'm sure this could greatly vary by region but most of the people in my program now are interested in going into private practice. It could perhaps occur because social work originated as group work and then case management so it isn't stereotypical to go into private practice. I think it is a lot more popular than it used to be but there are so many people with their LCSW that I assume it is less stigmatized than it used to be. Eh most social workers aren't verbally judgmental enough (or shouldn't be...) to say stuff like that anyways. 

[doctormelody]

1 hour ago, a.s. said:

I haven't experienced or seen any stigma against social workers going into private practice. I'm sure this could greatly vary by region but most of the people in my program now are interested in going into private practice. It could perhaps occur because social work originated as group work and then case management so it isn't stereotypical to go into private practice. I think it is a lot more popular than it used to be but there are so many people with their LCSW that I assume it is less stigmatized than it used to be. Eh most social workers aren't verbally judgmental enough (or shouldn't be...) to say stuff like that anyways. 

Gotcha, it sounds like the experience I had may have been an anomaly. And even the person I was speaking to wasn’t saying that it was necessarily a bad idea, just that I should keep an open mind. Thanks again for responding!

[Tomlinson87]

I want to work for the Department of Defense. There is no safety net for veterans and families after active duty for mental health. I already have several plans I want to introduce.

[doctormelody]

1 hour ago, Tomlinson87 said:

I want to work for the Department of Defense. There is no safety net for veterans and families after active duty for mental health. I already have several plans I want to introduce.

Amazing and so necessary! All the best to you.

[pinkcloudtracingpaper]

On 2/3/2019 at 9:14 PM, doctormelody said:

Apparently I am a moron and didn't realize "clinical" doesn't necessarily mean "therapy." I was informed of this discrepancy in my thinking by a kind redditor who quickly disabused me of the notion that the easiest path towards becoming a therapist is to pursue an MSW. Guys, I don't know what to do. I feel so stupid. I really love the social justice aspect of MSW programs, and I am interested in exploring the root causes of societal problems, but... I don't know. Is becoming a therapist with your MSW really that hard to do? I know you have to complete many hours of supervision in order to get your LCSW - I'm not in the dark about everything - but I just didn't even realize that this isn't the route most people take. Both of my most recent therapists have been LCSWs and I'm pretty sure that's what I want to do, but now I'm incredibly intimidated and wondering if I should consider counseling or MFT programs. Does anyone have any thoughts on this dilemma? What are your career goals, and how to do you plan to use the MSW to achieve them?

I think I know which Reddit thread you are talking about! I had posted a similar question a few hours ago and one of the regulars tried to steer me away from the notion of becoming a therapist with a MSW, and made sure I knew that it had been discussed already several times lower in the thread. I am a seeker like you, so take this with a grain of salt, but my observation is that a MSW is one of the most efficient ways to become a therapist. For instance, a high % of the therapists in NYC have LCSWs with a MSW degree. Go on psychologytoday.com and search around for therapists. There are also quite a few that have LMSWs (so still getting their LCSW requirement hours) under a private therapy practice. I'm sure those jobs don't pay particularly well but it's 3 years of grinding until you can get your LCSW and hang your own shingle. I believe that certain programs definitely would help with being a therapist, for instance Columbia has a specific Clinical Concentration. Beyond that, I'm generally a fan of doing the legwork on my own to learn things, and not counting on school to teach me everything. Love reading books about psychology, everything from dense psychoanalytic texts to more practical CBT/DBT workbooks, etc. Yes I'm sure the first year in private practice will be stressful, but I think it will be no matter how much education I have.

 

Good luck and let me know if you learn anything relevant to our quest!

 

 

 

[doctormelody]

6 hours ago, pinkcloudtracingpaper said:

I think I know which Reddit thread you are talking about! I had posted a similar question a few hours ago and one of the regulars tried to steer me away from the notion of becoming a therapist with a MSW, and made sure I knew that it had been discussed already several times lower in the thread. I am a seeker like you, so take this with a grain of salt, but my observation is that a MSW is one of the most efficient ways to become a therapist. For instance, a high % of the therapists in NYC have LCSWs with a MSW degree. Go on psychologytoday.com and search around for therapists. There are also quite a few that have LMSWs (so still getting their LCSW requirement hours) under a private therapy practice. I'm sure those jobs don't pay particularly well but it's 3 years of grinding until you can get your LCSW and hang your own shingle. I believe that certain programs definitely would help with being a therapist, for instance Columbia has a specific Clinical Concentration. Beyond that, I'm generally a fan of doing the legwork on my own to learn things, and not counting on school to teach me everything. Love reading books about psychology, everything from dense psychoanalytic texts to more practical CBT/DBT workbooks, etc. Yes I'm sure the first year in private practice will be stressful, but I think it will be no matter how much education I have.

 

Good luck and let me know if you learn anything relevant to our quest!

 

 

 

Thank you so much for this, it was very reassuring!

Did you also get the sense that there’s a sort of disdain for those who want to follow that path on that forum? Or am I just totally off-base with that?

Edited February 7, 2019 by doctormelody

[pinkcloudtracingpaper]

3 hours ago, doctormelody said:

Thank you so much for this, it was very reassuring!

Did you also get the sense that there’s a sort of disdain for those who want to follow that path on that forum? Or am I just totally off-base with that?

They definitely have a problem with it. I've been reading a bunch of threads on it. They view MSW as a social work degree, and people wanting to become therapists should consider getting a different degree. But the reality is that a high proportion of therapists (at least 30-40%) have MSWs. They also believe that a MSW does not give you enough direct education to know what you are doing in therapy, which is true. But then again, a psychology PhD is supposed to be ultimate degree for therapists, and while well-versed in the theory and underlying research, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know much about the actual practicing of therapy either, unless it is a very clinically-focused PhD. Like most fields, there is some learning on the job that is required. And yes that is scary because you are dealing with the mental health of others, but you have to learn somehow. It seems sensical to me, to charge less, avoid patients with severe disorders, and try to help people with garden variety issues in the beginning, to ease your way in with lower risks. And then reading as much as you can on your own.

[Tomlinson87]

Reddit has some haters. My mentor in college told me she would rather work with clinical social workers than other psychologist in a therapy type setting. Rather than focus on the individual’s problems, we can focus on the individual and the outside factors contributing to the problem. MSW is versatile. 

My mentor was a school psychologist for 15 years and clinical for 20.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Tomlinson87

[doctormelody]

29 minutes ago, pinkcloudtracingpaper said:

They definitely have a problem with it. I've been reading a bunch of threads on it. They view MSW as a social work degree, and people wanting to become therapists should consider getting a different degree. But the reality is that a high proportion of therapists (at least 30-40%) have MSWs. They also believe that a MSW does not give you enough direct education to know what you are doing in therapy, which is true. But then again, a psychology PhD is supposed to be ultimate degree for therapists, and while well-versed in the theory and underlying research, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know much about the actual practicing of therapy either, unless it is a very clinically-focused PhD. Like most fields, there is some learning on the job that is required. And yes that is scary because you are dealing with the mental health of others, but you have to learn somehow. It seems sensical to me, to charge less, avoid patients with severe disorders, and try to help people with garden variety issues in the beginning, to ease your way in with lower risks. And then reading as much as you can on your own.

This is very validating. I kind of thought it was just me being too sensitive. But yeah, this makes sense to me, too. I honestly don’t think I’d make it through a PhD and if I get my degree in counseling then I can’t ever do anything else with it if I get burnt out or just need a change. Thanks so much for responding. I know it will be a lot of work - and I’m prepared to do that work! - but people telling me it was the wrong path before I’d even started was just really getting to me, honestly.

Edited February 7, 2019 by doctormelody

[doctormelody]

6 minutes ago, Tomlinson87 said:

Reddit has some haters. My mentor in college told me she would rather work with clinical social workers than other psychologist in a therapy type setting. Rather than focus on the individual’s problems, we can focus on the individual and the outside factors contributing to the problem. MSW is versatile. 

My mentor was a school psychologist for 15 years and clinical for 20.

Lol, truest statement ever! Thank you for this, it’s very reassuring.

[Adelaide9216]

I'd like to teach in college and/or university and do research. But if that doesn't happen, I guess I can do research for the government or a think tank or something like that. 

[doctormelody]

Just now, Adelaide9216 said:

I'd like to teach in college and/or university and do research. But if that doesn't happen, I guess I can do research for the government or a think tank or something like that. 

Just judging from your posts here, I think you will be excellent at that and it’s very important work. Thanks for sharing. 

[Tomlinson87]

2 minutes ago, doctormelody said:

Lol, truest statement ever! Thank you for this, it’s very reassuring.

? 

[Adelaide9216]

Just now, doctormelody said:

Just judging from your posts here, I think you will be excellent at that and it’s very important work. Thanks for sharing. 

Thanks!!

[Tomlinson87]

5 minutes ago, Adelaide9216 said:

Thanks!!

I could never teach. I was an instructor in the Air Force and would probably get in trouble for having too much structure. I love teaching though. 

That’s a noble desire to mold hungry minds.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Tomlinson87

[lunary]

I'd really like to play a role in macro-level social work. I'm interested in research and policy, particularly as it pertains to childhood trauma. I think that macro social work is often underappreciated, and there's definitely a need for social workers who are willing to conduct the research that informs our practice.

Now, as far as getting there, I have quite a long path ahead of me. ?

[londonrain9]

I have so many options! I want to go into either community, health/medical, or policy social work. I want to work with the disability community and advocate for their rights to access health information, but there are so many ways I can go about that, so I'm hoping my grad school experience will help narrow it down.

To hopefully answer your question-- I had an internship last summer at an outpatient therapy clinic where I worked under an LMHC, LMSW and a psychologist. I saw few differences in treatment methods, but obviously the psychologist had "more power" in diagnosing and prescribing meds. In NY, you don't NEED a LCSW to practice because it isn't required, but you need to check your state's requirements.

[Adelaide9216]

23 minutes ago, lunary said:

I'd really like to play a role in macro-level social work. I'm interested in research and policy, particularly as it pertains to childhood trauma. I think that macro social work is often underappreciated, and there's definitely a need for social workers who are willing to conduct the research that informs our practice.

Now, as far as getting there, I have quite a long path ahead of me. ?

I totally agree with you. I had a prof that stressed the importance of having more social work researchers.