2020 ||||| Decision time: share your dilemma

[Karam2022]

Hello,

Aside from the corona virus dilemma that is affecting all of us, there are a lot of you who are going through tough decisions to make over the next 15 days. Now, that most of the acceptances/rejections are out. I thought that I would start a thread similar to this one. Folks can share what schools they are deciding between and what circumstances they are considering, as well as any other factors that are being considered.
 

I'll lead off:

Coming from:
Syria, but residing in Germany.

Deciding between: 
MA in Global Affairs (Yale) - tuition covered. 
MPA in Development Practice, Columbia SIPA - tuition covered.
MA Development Studies (American University, DC) - 50% tuition

Other factors:
I know that the three schools are great and will boost my career in so many great ways, and I know that it is a privilege to have to decide between these amazing offers, but since I have a Syrian passport, I need to think more about my options after graduation. An MA from Yale can definitely support an American student to get into the state department or other governmental sector, but for an international student is it that useful? An MPA is heavily practical and NewYork is definitely a great hub for network, but will I be losing the academic sense of studies with heavily practical education. 

How I'm leaning:
I am very much leaning towards the MA at Jackson. The program has more freedom, and I can obtain as much practical skills as I want, from the Yale School of Business or the management school. The community at Yale seems more supportive, while that at SIPA is more busy and life seems to hit them so hard in NYC that they don't find time to support (Or maybe I have such bad luck with SIPA students). However, I am worried that the most important factor of the masters degree is really the networking side of it. I do come with a technical experience for more than 8 years in development, but networking in a place with supportive faculty and alumni, would offer rather big opportunities. 

[tacos95]

11 minutes ago, Karam2022 said:

Deciding between: 
MA in Global Affairs (Yale) - tuition covered. 
MPA in Development Practice, Columbia SIPA - tuition covered.
MA Development Studies (American University, DC) - 50% tuition

Hi Karam,

Thanks for starting this thread, makes loads of sense. I'll offer my thoughts on your situation, though my insights may be limited. First off, I don't really think American is worth considering given tuition coverage for your other great options. If you didn't have any funding at Yale or Columbia, then American would definitely be a great option (and DC living expenses aren't loads enough lower for this to make up that gap, even besides the quality of program). But to have funding and Ivy name recognition is incredible.

Then picking between those two, my understanding is that Columbia is ranked a bit better than Yale for international affairs, so it gains an edge there. New York has loads of opportunities and activity to access right around campus. And finally, if you're thinking of working internationally, do you think Yale would have better name recognition? I know people say that about Harvard, and my perhaps very limited impression is that Yale is more well known than Columbia, but that's definitely contestable.

Hope that's at least a little bit helpful.

 

Alright, here's my own situation (sorry if somebody saw my own thread or saw this in SAIS 2020 -- I'll admit that I'm desperate for help):

Coming from: 
US, small liberal arts college in Econ, a couple years working in analytic consulting

Deciding between:
George Mason MA in Economics - tuition covered and $25k/year stipend
Johns Hokpins SAIS MA in International Econ and second concentration - 50% of tuition

Other factors:
I'm wondering if the fairly obvious ideological bent of those GMU (school and Mercatus Center are both definitely pretty libertarian) and generally heterodox nature of the department will typecast me when I'm looking for my first post-grad school position. While I'm not intellectually averse to the institutional and Austrian economics, etc., I'm wondering how everybody thinks this would affect my opportunities for work afterwards. I'm nervous that I would only be able to land jobs at Cato, or Mercatus itself and other libertarian type places, or, worst case, something private sector. It's also just not a super highly ranked program overall. Ideally, I want to end up in a big-name think tank or government as a policy analyst, eventually with chances to write for a relatively broad audience. 

How I'm leaning:
SAIS is clearly a much more widely respected institution, especially in DC and especially in government. The rigor of the program and the professors have me really excited. I have significant funding from SAIS, but it's not nearly the same on net. I can handle to take on some debt for this, but I'm just wracking my brains over whether it's worth it.

If anybody has thoughts, they would be greatly appreciated.

[EspressoDoble]

@Karam2022 and @tacos95, I think you're looking at the wrong financial metrics. Instead of looking at the % of tuition covered, you should be looking at the total expense for the two years vs average salary earned in the first three years post-degree from that school. 

For each school, if the difference between these two numbers is just $20k to $30k or so, then the schools are comparable, and you have to consider other factors. But if there is a massive difference, then your choice is much easier. 

All this assumes that you will continue in the same city (or at least, within the US), for three years after graduation. If not, then you have to consider (a) whether the school has a brand and network in your target industry, and your target country, and (b) whether it will give you the kind of life you want to experience for two years. 

For example, financial considerations aside, two years are Yale (academic-professional focus, smaller class size) are going to be wildly different from two years at SIPA (active city life, massive classes). Where do you think you will thrive most? 

 

 

[EnvPolicyHopeful]

So glad I found this post. I'm pursuing environmental policy, and was fortunate enough to be accepted into 7 of the 8 programs I applied to, and waitlisted at the last. However, that's made decisions very challenging! I've been able to narrow down my options some, but now I'm stumped. I should clarify that "DC" isn't really my goal. Post-graduation I'm interested in corporate roles, nonprofit roles, and potentially some international roles (bilingual). I'll have ~6 years of relevant professional experience by this fall.

Stuck between:

Minnesota Humphrey School MS-STEP. Offered me in-state tuition as an out-of-state student, plus 50% off of THAT cost via a 10 hr/week fellowship (with additional hourly pay) in a lab working on a project with a great new professor who I really clicked with on the call. Project would be a joint effort with MIT, and as long as I do a good job, the prof could hire me for my 2nd year as well. Total cost of attendance after fellowships would end up being $10k/year for 2 years. Affordable cost of living, nice area. School is good but does lack the "wow-factor" that some other schools could provide on a resume. I have no doubt that I'd get a good education here, just a bit less resume power.

Michigan MS SEAS/MPP Ford School Joint Degree. 3 year program, $$$. Had a phone call with my potential future advisor here, we really clicked and I love the program, but it's terribly cost-prohibitive (would literally be a >$100k degree). Got an email yesterday that the advisor personally fought for me to get a scholarship after our phone call, and I was offered $15k off of my first semester. If I'm later accepted into a TA or research assistantship position in my 2nd or 3rd years at the program, those roles would offer full tuition reimbursement. However, those roles are highly competitive, and my worry is that while I was accepted, I'd be in over my head as a student, and my GPA may not be competitive enough to secure those roles. Accepting this offer could result in a low-cost degree from one of the top institutions in the world, but may result in terrible debt instead.

UCSD GPS MPP. Offered full tuition for both years and a living stipend for the first year, though admissions confirmed to me that the stipend is nonrenewable. Admissions also notified me that I would not be able to get a research assistant position in a lab for the first year, but I could apply to those positions in my second year. I have loads of professional experience already, so I do want to be able gain lab research experience. Cost of living is high, though slightly less than where I currently live. Geographically very strong in my industry, high job prospects upon graduation. However, the program has a very "professional" vibe, and I think I prefer a bit more of a "research-based program" vibe, even if the program itself is still a professional program.

Edited March 31, 2020 by EnvPolicyHopeful

[prokem]

@Karam2022, thank you for starting this thread! It is great to see that many of you face a good problem, i.e. choosing between many great programs. I would suggest adding your career goals, and, if you can, a general sense of the location you'd like to end up in, as both of these factors could tilt your decisions in one way or the other. 

I wish that I could give all of you helpful advice, but I don't have the years of acquired knowledge that many of you do. The one thing I would suggest is try to leverage your funding offers if you haven't already!

Coming from:
Current senior at a small west coast LAC

Deciding between: 
a dual MPP/MS from Michigan's Ford School and SEAS. SEAS has offered me $15k for the first year.

MEM from Yale F&ES

Other factors:
I am very lucky that funding does not have to be my main consideration. As it stands, however, Yale would be the cheaper option by a decent margin (surprisingly) even with no funding. I like the idea of having a strong combo of both science based/technical education and a strong policy education. Both programs can offer that IMO. I am hoping to end up working in a climate policy think tank/non profit, either in DC or NYC-- from what I've learned it seems like Yale has better connections to those areas and types of jobs. A main consideration for me is how to weigh professors vs. students. At SEAS, I have been really impressed with the professors, not only their experience, but with how accessible and open they seem. They also have professors who explicitly specialize in my area of interest (adaptation and resilience). At the same time, my interactions with admitted students at SEAS have made me a little apprehensive and I worry that I may not end up in as challenging a learning environment as I'm hoping for. At Yale, I haven't been able to interact with professors as much, but from speaking to current and former students, they do seem to be a little less accessible, and from what I've seen thus far they don't have many in my specific area of interest. On the other hand, F&ES admitted students are much more diverse in terms of country of origin, race, years of experience, types of experience, etc, which I value. I haven't been able to have very many interactions with Ford students and profs. Hoping this week's slate of virtual events gives me some clarity! 

I'm also keeping the coronavirus factor in the back of my mind. I don't think I'd want to shell out thousands of dollars for an online education when half the purpose is building a network and relationships, so a deferral is always possible, though I don't know what I'd do for that year off, especially with a recession. 

How I'm leaning:
Right now, I am leaning towards Yale. I like the idea of a smaller, more experienced cohort with peers that will challenge me and push me to be better. I also think that Yale would offer better career opportunities at the outset, though maybe only slightly. Having an MPP would make me a more attractive job candidate though, and would allow me to broaden my job horizon. Having the SEAS expertise and the Ford relationships/name/quant background to leverage would be a great combo. UM might allow me to gain greater depth in both climate resilience and policy, whereas Yale may offer me more breadth. Lots to think about! Thoughts on depth vs. breadth are welcome!

[GradSchoolGrad]

11 hours ago, Karam2022 said:

Hello,

Aside from the corona virus dilemma that is affecting all of us, there are a lot of you who are going through tough decisions to make over the next 15 days. Now, that most of the acceptances/rejections are out. I thought that I would start a thread similar to this one. Folks can share what schools they are deciding between and what circumstances they are considering, as well as any other factors that are being considered.
 

I'll lead off:

Coming from:
Syria, but residing in Germany.

Deciding between: 
MA in Global Affairs (Yale) - tuition covered. 
MPA in Development Practice, Columbia SIPA - tuition covered.
MA Development Studies (American University, DC) - 50% tuition

Other factors:
I know that the three schools are great and will boost my career in so many great ways, and I know that it is a privilege to have to decide between these amazing offers, but since I have a Syrian passport, I need to think more about my options after graduation. An MA from Yale can definitely support an American student to get into the state department or other governmental sector, but for an international student is it that useful? An MPA is heavily practical and NewYork is definitely a great hub for network, but will I be losing the academic sense of studies with heavily practical education. 

How I'm leaning:
I am very much leaning towards the MA at Jackson. The program has more freedom, and I can obtain as much practical skills as I want, from the Yale School of Business or the management school. The community at Yale seems more supportive, while that at SIPA is more busy and life seems to hit them so hard in NYC that they don't find time to support (Or maybe I have such bad luck with SIPA students). However, I am worried that the most important factor of the masters degree is really the networking side of it. I do come with a technical experience for more than 8 years in development, but networking in a place with supportive faculty and alumni, would offer rather big opportunities. 

@Karam2022 I recommend you consider these things:

1. The tight knit network and community of Yale Jackson vs. the brand + alumni + connections + network and opportunity with SIPA.

2. Yale Jackson - granted has the brand name of Yale, the Jackson institute is brand new so you won't have an alumni support based (or at least a small one from legacy programs). It is never good to be part of a "new program" in higher education because they are still figuring themselves out. That is especially true when big change influences (like corona) hits higher education hard across the board. With you an international student, it is especially concerning to go to a program that doesn't have a historical international student cohort. Also, broadly speaking, a professional masters degree is generally speaking viewed better than an MA (which is viewed is rather academic).

3. You are absolutely right with the SIPA and how New York City life hits them hard and the community isn't that strong. HOWEVER... SIPA has all connections and alumni base to support you to work internationally or work in development. From a pure career opportunity perspective, SIPA wins without a doubt. Also, the program is much bigger than than Yale Jackson, so there are lots of different people you can build social networks with.

4. Columbia has just as many professional programs (if not more) as Yale that you can collaborate with. Columbia Business School is pretty much = Yale School of Management.

If I were you, I would take the risk of the weaker community and go to SIPA for the tremendously better career prospects and the benefits of a well established program. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

11 hours ago, tacos95 said:

Hi Karam,

Thanks for starting this thread, makes loads of sense. I'll offer my thoughts on your situation, though my insights may be limited. First off, I don't really think American is worth considering given tuition coverage for your other great options. If you didn't have any funding at Yale or Columbia, then American would definitely be a great option (and DC living expenses aren't loads enough lower for this to make up that gap, even besides the quality of program). But to have funding and Ivy name recognition is incredible.

Then picking between those two, my understanding is that Columbia is ranked a bit better than Yale for international affairs, so it gains an edge there. New York has loads of opportunities and activity to access right around campus. And finally, if you're thinking of working internationally, do you think Yale would have better name recognition? I know people say that about Harvard, and my perhaps very limited impression is that Yale is more well known than Columbia, but that's definitely contestable.

Hope that's at least a little bit helpful.

 

Alright, here's my own situation (sorry if somebody saw my own thread or saw this in SAIS 2020 -- I'll admit that I'm desperate for help):

Coming from: 
US, small liberal arts college in Econ, a couple years working in analytic consulting

Deciding between:
George Mason MA in Economics - tuition covered and $25k/year stipend
Johns Hokpins SAIS MA in International Econ and second concentration - 50% of tuition

Other factors:
I'm wondering if the fairly obvious ideological bent of those GMU (school and Mercatus Center are both definitely pretty libertarian) and generally heterodox nature of the department will typecast me when I'm looking for my first post-grad school position. While I'm not intellectually averse to the institutional and Austrian economics, etc., I'm wondering how everybody thinks this would affect my opportunities for work afterwards. I'm nervous that I would only be able to land jobs at Cato, or Mercatus itself and other libertarian type places, or, worst case, something private sector. It's also just not a super highly ranked program overall. Ideally, I want to end up in a big-name think tank or government as a policy analyst, eventually with chances to write for a relatively broad audience. 

How I'm leaning:
SAIS is clearly a much more widely respected institution, especially in DC and especially in government. The rigor of the program and the professors have me really excited. I have significant funding from SAIS, but it's not nearly the same on net. I can handle to take on some debt for this, but I'm just wracking my brains over whether it's worth it.

If anybody has thoughts, they would be greatly appreciated.

@tacos95

1. GMU is a pretty big program, so you can avoid the type casting. HOWEVER... what really concerns me is the simple lack of brand equity for GMU (even in the DC area) + weak community + mixed academic quality. One of my family friends actually purposely chose an MA program at George Mason so she wouldn't be burdened with making friends and live her own DC life. 

2. If you don't go to SAIS, I think you would be super annoyed with the opportunities you'll be missing out. Especially as someone straight from undergrad, you really want to have the max brand equity + optimal semester side project / work experiences (easier to do center of DC vs. Arlington/Fairfax). I would recommend that you should try negotiating to increase your scholarship with SAIS. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[GradSchoolGrad]

6 hours ago, EnvPolicyHopeful said:

So glad I found this post. I'm pursuing environmental policy, and was fortunate enough to be accepted into 7 of the 8 programs I applied to, and waitlisted at the last. However, that's made decisions very challenging! I've been able to narrow down my options some, but now I'm stumped. I should clarify that "DC" isn't really my goal. Post-graduation I'm interested in corporate roles, nonprofit roles, and potentially some international roles (bilingual). I'll have ~6 years of relevant professional experience by this fall.

Stuck between:

Minnesota Humphrey School MS-STEP. Offered me in-state tuition as an out-of-state student, plus 50% off of THAT cost via a 10 hr/week fellowship (with additional hourly pay) in a lab working on a project with a great new professor who I really clicked with on the call. Project would be a joint effort with MIT, and as long as I do a good job, the prof could hire me for my 2nd year as well. Total cost of attendance after fellowships would end up being $10k/year for 2 years. Affordable cost of living, nice area. School is good but does lack the "wow-factor" that some other schools could provide on a resume. I have no doubt that I'd get a good education here, just a bit less resume power.

Michigan MS SEAS/MPP Ford School Joint Degree. 3 year program, $$$. Had a phone call with my potential future advisor here, we really clicked and I love the program, but it's terribly cost-prohibitive (would literally be a >$100k degree). Got an email yesterday that the advisor personally fought for me to get a scholarship after our phone call, and I was offered $15k off of my first semester. If I'm later accepted into a TA or research assistantship position in my 2nd or 3rd years at the program, those roles would offer full tuition reimbursement. However, those roles are highly competitive, and my worry is that while I was accepted, I'd be in over my head as a student, and my GPA may not be competitive enough to secure those roles. Accepting this offer could result in a low-cost degree from one of the top institutions in the world, but may result in terrible debt instead.

UCSD GPS MPP. Offered full tuition for both years and a living stipend for the first year, though admissions confirmed to me that the stipend is nonrenewable. Admissions also notified me that I would not be able to get a research assistant position in a lab for the first year, but I could apply to those positions in my second year. I have loads of professional experience already, so I do want to be able gain lab research experience. Cost of living is high, though slightly less than where I currently live. Geographically very strong in my industry, high job prospects upon graduation. However, the program has a very "professional" vibe, and I think I prefer a bit more of a "research-based program" vibe, even if the program itself is still a professional program.

I think there are many different ways to think about this.

1. If you want to end up in California (or West Coast period), and are more than okay giving up a strong brand equity for the rest of the America, UCSD GPS MPP is hands down the right answer. With MPP, there is a lot of regional pull of a school, and UCSD is a well respected program and brand that will get you there. Also... who says you need to work in a lab in a program? San Diego has lots of opportunity within the wider University + local area.

2. I am really confused why you are even thinking about Michigan MS SEAS/Ford MPP Joint degree if your goal is to do more research based work. MS SEAS/FORD MPP are both rather more professional programs. I mean they both do have research opportunities, but the career outcomes lean more towards applied professions than research. Also, if you want to end up in California, this may not be the best option. This goes back to the regional pull factor. I WILL HOWEVER SAY... regional  pull of a brand can be negated if there is a well placed alumni or if you experience a project with a regional bent of your liking.

3. Humphrey School MS-STEP. I actually really admire the Humphrey School and have met only great people from there. However, it does have a brand equity problem across the country (especially if you are trying to end up in California). If you are gambling that you will advance in your career by the prestige of your work and want to ride that boat, then go with it. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

5 hours ago, prokem said:

@Karam2022, thank you for starting this thread! It is great to see that many of you face a good problem, i.e. choosing between many great programs. I would suggest adding your career goals, and, if you can, a general sense of the location you'd like to end up in, as both of these factors could tilt your decisions in one way or the other. 

I wish that I could give all of you helpful advice, but I don't have the years of acquired knowledge that many of you do. The one thing I would suggest is try to leverage your funding offers if you haven't already!

Coming from:
Current senior at a small west coast LAC

Deciding between: 
a dual MPP/MS from Michigan's Ford School and SEAS. SEAS has offered me $15k for the first year.

MEM from Yale F&ES

Other factors:
I am very lucky that funding does not have to be my main consideration. As it stands, however, Yale would be the cheaper option by a decent margin (surprisingly) even with no funding. I like the idea of having a strong combo of both science based/technical education and a strong policy education. Both programs can offer that IMO. I am hoping to end up working in a climate policy think tank/non profit, either in DC or NYC-- from what I've learned it seems like Yale has better connections to those areas and types of jobs. A main consideration for me is how to weigh professors vs. students. At SEAS, I have been really impressed with the professors, not only their experience, but with how accessible and open they seem. They also have professors who explicitly specialize in my area of interest (adaptation and resilience). At the same time, my interactions with admitted students at SEAS have made me a little apprehensive and I worry that I may not end up in as challenging a learning environment as I'm hoping for. At Yale, I haven't been able to interact with professors as much, but from speaking to current and former students, they do seem to be a little less accessible, and from what I've seen thus far they don't have many in my specific area of interest. On the other hand, F&ES admitted students are much more diverse in terms of country of origin, race, years of experience, types of experience, etc, which I value. I haven't been able to have very many interactions with Ford students and profs. Hoping this week's slate of virtual events gives me some clarity! 

I'm also keeping the coronavirus factor in the back of my mind. I don't think I'd want to shell out thousands of dollars for an online education when half the purpose is building a network and relationships, so a deferral is always possible, though I don't know what I'd do for that year off, especially with a recession. 

How I'm leaning:
Right now, I am leaning towards Yale. I like the idea of a smaller, more experienced cohort with peers that will challenge me and push me to be better. I also think that Yale would offer better career opportunities at the outset, though maybe only slightly. Having an MPP would make me a more attractive job candidate though, and would allow me to broaden my job horizon. Having the SEAS expertise and the Ford relationships/name/quant background to leverage would be a great combo. UM might allow me to gain greater depth in both climate resilience and policy, whereas Yale may offer me more breadth. Lots to think about! Thoughts on depth vs. breadth are welcome!

@prokem... I think the piece that you are missing is that you haven't been interacting with Ford MPP students. From what I understand they are relatively diverse and experienced as well. I think have a tight student community is important... but if there is no pathway to learn what you want to learn, then you aren't getting what really matters for going to grad school --> your desired career outcomes. 

[EnvPolicyHopeful]

CA definitely isn't my be all/end all goal after graduating -- I actually live there now haha! I'd be fine with landing a job here after graduating, but it's not a specific trajectory I'm aiming for. CA cities really are just so insanely expensive. I in fact really encourage anyone considering accepting a CA offer to seriously consider how challenging it would be to live here as a graduate student. I certainly don't want to discourage anybody from picking the program that's right for then, I just think that factors that may impact quality of life (such as cost of living) are also important considerations. When people hear, "CA cities are expensive," I think that their thoughts tend to immediately/understandably go to housing costs, but people don't tend to also think about how much more you also spend here on groceries, medical expenses, etc. I applied to Berkeley (which ended up being my only non-acceptance), but I was almost afraid of getting in and the subsequent "expectation" to go. Even though I'm local, the notion of living here as a grad student is absolutely terrifying. Admittedly SD isn't quite as bad as the Bay, but still. CA is awesome for all sorts of reasons and opportunities, don't get be wrong, but the amount I've been able to save after working for multiple years on a slightly-below-average salary is certainly less than I'd have liked. That said, were I to attend UCSD, I'd at least be benefitting from moving to somewhere with a marginally lower CoL than my current area. Students moving to SD from other areas would be unlikely to be in an equal scenario.

With respect to my choices, I used to live in the midwest, hence the draw of those schools. The winter will be an adjustment after getting used to CA, but I'm not unfamiliar with it or anything.

The way you framed the SEAS/Ford School dual degree program is helping me reset my mind back to my initial impressions (back before my brain got a bit clouded by my unexpected scholarship offer!). One of my takeaways from the SEAS "visit" day was that they really emphasize the group professional capstone project. I have no doubt that I could learn loads from that project, but at the same time, its greatest benefit is that it provides students with professional experience. As someone who will have 6 years of relevant work experience by this fall, I personally am more interested in a thesis, but as I learned at "visit" day, there are some barriers to pursuing the thesis track at Michigan. However, there would be no such barriers to me choosing the thesis path at the Humphrey School.

Edited April 1, 2020 by EnvPolicyHopeful

[GradSchoolGrad]

2 hours ago, EnvPolicyHopeful said:

CA definitely isn't my be all/end all goal after graduating -- I actually live there now haha! I'd be fine with landing a job here after graduating, but it's not a specific trajectory I'm aiming for. CA cities really are just so insanely expensive. I in fact really encourage anyone considering accepting a CA offer to seriously consider how challenging it would be to live here as a graduate student. I certainly don't want to discourage anybody from picking the program that's right for then, I just think that factors that may impact quality of life (such as cost of living) are also important considerations. When people hear, "CA cities are expensive," I think that their thoughts tend to immediately/understandably go to housing costs, but people don't tend to also think about how much more you also spend here on groceries, medical expenses, etc. I applied to Berkeley (which ended up being my only non-acceptance), but I was almost afraid of getting in and the subsequent "expectation" to go. Even though I'm local, the notion of living here as a grad student is absolutely terrifying. Admittedly SD isn't quite as bad as the Bay, but still. CA is awesome for all sorts of reasons and opportunities, don't get be wrong, but the amount I've been able to save after working for multiple years on a slightly-below-average salary is certainly less than I'd have liked. That said, were I to attend UCSD, I'd at least be benefitting from moving to somewhere with a marginally lower CoL than my current area. Students moving to SD from other areas would be unlikely to be in an equal scenario.

With respect to my choices, I used to live in the midwest, hence the draw of those schools. The winter will be an adjustment after getting used to CA, but I'm not unfamiliar with it or anything.

The way you framed the SEAS/Ford School dual degree program is helping me reset my mind back to my initial impressions (back before my brain got a bit clouded by my unexpected scholarship offer!). One of my takeaways from the SEAS "visit" day was that they really emphasize the group professional capstone project. I have no doubt that I could learn loads from that project, but at the same time, its greatest benefit is that it provides students with professional experience. As someone who will have 6 years of relevant work experience by this fall, I personally am more interested in a thesis, but as I learned at "visit" day, there are some barriers to pursuing the thesis track at Michigan. However, there would be no such barriers to me choosing the thesis path at the Humphrey School.

@EnvPolicyHopeful

I want to clarify one thing. Just because you have 6 years of work experience, it doesn't mean that people in your future job (depending on what it is) will respect it. I think someone who actually does Environmental policy can comment better than I can on what prior work experience matters and what works less. However, as a career switcher (I am assuming), with the exception of research and academia, most policy jobs really like proof of professional experience based consultingesque projects (in their specific policy area) as signs that you are viable. My point is this... if you want to go into an applied job (non-research/non-academia) after graduate school, it benefits you to go to a more "professional" oriented program. If you want to go into research/academia, then that is a different story.

I actually found this out the hard way. I went into grad school with 8 years work experience (project management, legal stuff, technology design, executive level strategy development) and none of that mattered because I was shooting for education policy. As someone who wasn't a former teacher/education programming/or community developer, I was told that at best I would get a job equivalent to someone with a year or two experience (if I were to stay in the field). I actually ended up doing an internship whereby, I was the oldest person by 8 years because no amount of degrees or work experience mattered to the area of the field I was involved in. I'm pretty sure education policy is probably more on the extreme side. However... that is something to note. 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[EnvPolicyHopeful]

1 hour ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

However, as a career switcher (I am assuming), with the exception of research and academia, most policy jobs really like proof of professional experience based consultingesque projects (in their specific policy area) as signs that you are viable.

Definitely agree with you here. Fortunately my work experience is in policy/regulatory-related environmental consulting (for local, state, and federal agencies), with some additional work experience that isn't specifically environmental consulting, but is environmentally relevant. By this fall, 4 of my 6 years of work experience will be in environmental consulting (land use, energy, biological issues, CEQA/NEPA, etc).

I want to clarify that I definitely think that the group capstone projects would still present me with plenty of learning opportunities. But I feel that I would be challenging myself less than I would were I to pursue a thesis-track, which would be entirely new to me and would definitely supplement a resume that already shows a decent amount of experience in the area.

Edited April 1, 2020 by EnvPolicyHopeful

[GradSchoolGrad]

5 hours ago, EnvPolicyHopeful said:

Definitely agree with you here. Fortunately my work experience is in policy/regulatory-related environmental consulting (for local, state, and federal agencies), with some additional work experience that isn't specifically environmental consulting, but is environmentally relevant. By this fall, 4 of my 6 years of work experience will be in environmental consulting (land use, energy, biological issues, CEQA/NEPA, etc).

I want to clarify that I definitely think that the group capstone projects would still present me with plenty of learning opportunities. But I feel that I would be challenging myself less than I would were I to pursue a thesis-track, which would be entirely new to me and would definitely supplement a resume that already shows a decent amount of experience in the area.

Okay got it. In that case, I think the real question for you is to consider if the SEAS/Ford brand is worth it + what avenues are there for you to get published (thesis or separate endeavors... you would have 3 years anyway). Also... something else to think about. I am assuming your scholarship came from one side of Michigan (like one of the schools???). I have heard stories of dual degrees in Michigan doubled dipping. As in seeking scholarships from both schools, and thereby boasting their total. That is something to think about.

My entire point is that for research to really gain career value for someone who sounds like wants to go back to being applied is to be published or part of crazy project that gets some level of publicity (good example is the University of West Virginia team that uncovered how Volkswagon was cheating on their emissions). I think it is important to consider which place can get you published. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[tacos95]

16 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

1. GMU is a pretty big program, so you can avoid the type casting. HOWEVER... what really concerns me is the simple lack of brand equity for GMU (even in the DC area) + weak community + mixed academic quality. One of my family friends actually purposely chose an MA program at George Mason so she wouldn't be burdened with making friends and live her own DC life. 

2. If you don't go to SAIS, I think you would be super annoyed with the opportunities you'll be missing out. Especially as someone straight from undergrad, you really want to have the max brand equity + optimal semester side project / work experiences (easier to do center of DC vs. Arlington/Fairfax). I would recommend that you should try negotiating to increase your scholarship with SAIS. 

thanks @GradSchoolGrad

Those line up with my general concerns as well. 

[Karam2022]

16 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

@Karam2022 I recommend you consider these things:

1. The tight knit network and community of Yale Jackson vs. the brand + alumni + connections + network and opportunity with SIPA.

2. Yale Jackson - granted has the brand name of Yale, the Jackson institute is brand new so you won't have an alumni support based (or at least a small one from legacy programs). It is never good to be part of a "new program" in higher education because they are still figuring themselves out. That is especially true when big change influences (like corona) hits higher education hard across the board. With you an international student, it is especially concerning to go to a program that doesn't have a historical international student cohort. Also, broadly speaking, a professional masters degree is generally speaking viewed better than an MA (which is viewed is rather academic).

3. You are absolutely right with the SIPA and how New York City life hits them hard and the community isn't that strong. HOWEVER... SIPA has all connections and alumni base to support you to work internationally or work in development. From a pure career opportunity perspective, SIPA wins without a doubt. Also, the program is much bigger than than Yale Jackson, so there are lots of different people you can build social networks with.

4. Columbia has just as many professional programs (if not more) as Yale that you can collaborate with. Columbia Business School is pretty much = Yale School of Management.

If I were you, I would take the risk of the weaker community and go to SIPA for the tremendously better career prospects and the benefits of a well established program. 

Thank you so much for your response! I really appreciate your points. 

1- I do agree with that, but I have to say that even with the great network that SIPA offers, I felt a bit disappointed with the current alumni and even students. While at Jackson I managed to talk to 3 professors and 11 students. At SIPA, I needed to book appointments and beg for advice, and at the end I managed to talk to only two persons. Yes they are a lot, but are they helpful? I think one big advantage for Yale, is the World Fellows program, and the senior fellows. While in big programs you do get to create a very wide network, in a program like Jackson, you do get to have some personal interaction with people that are really influencing or have influenced the international politics. Still, I am debating which is more useful for me...

I do come from a background of international development practice with over 7 years of experience. 

2- While I also agree with your point, I am still thinking that being from Syria, and having the opportunity to be the first Syrian to study at an emerging program, could also mean that I would be able to experience more efficient ideas exchange, and inform this change and emergence of future possibilities in the program? I however, think that the concern about professional masters degree vs. an MA, very legit, and I will take that into consideration. 

3- Totally agree. 

4- Agree.


I really appreciate your opinion! I will try to talk to some more students at SIPA and hear more about their journeys! I value your opinion.
 

[GradSchoolGrad]

41 minutes ago, Karam2022 said:

Thank you so much for your response! I really appreciate your points. 

1- I do agree with that, but I have to say that even with the great network that SIPA offers, I felt a bit disappointed with the current alumni and even students. While at Jackson I managed to talk to 3 professors and 11 students. At SIPA, I needed to book appointments and beg for advice, and at the end I managed to talk to only two persons. Yes they are a lot, but are they helpful? I think one big advantage for Yale, is the World Fellows program, and the senior fellows. While in big programs you do get to create a very wide network, in a program like Jackson, you do get to have some personal interaction with people that are really influencing or have influenced the international politics. Still, I am debating which is more useful for me...

I do come from a background of international development practice with over 7 years of experience. 

2- While I also agree with your point, I am still thinking that being from Syria, and having the opportunity to be the first Syrian to study at an emerging program, could also mean that I would be able to experience more efficient ideas exchange, and inform this change and emergence of future possibilities in the program? I however, think that the concern about professional masters degree vs. an MA, very legit, and I will take that into consideration. 

3- Totally agree. 

4- Agree.


I really appreciate your opinion! I will try to talk to some more students at SIPA and hear more about their journeys! I value your opinion.
 

Here is what I am concerned about and what I recommend you do.

1. Do not conflate social availability with career outcomes.

What you said sounded a lot like some people I knew from my graduate program. My graduate program is internally appreciated for high accessibility of resources. Heck, I can even schedule an appointment with the Dean. However, being able to talk people and getting your project, academic, and career interests from grad school are two different things. I knew so much people from my graduate program (which went through a rebrand 7 years ago... not as dramatic as a brand new establishment) who had a great engagement but a terrible academic / career experience because the proper systems and legacies weren't in place to properly guide them. 

I recommend you talk to people at Jackson who are doing IDEV (I don't even think they graduated a full class yet... at most they have 1), and see what they have been academically focused on + where they are going. In particular international students from afflicted areas like yourself. 

2. Being the first is not always a good thing. 

Being the first of something (especially in a small program) can also be difficult because people (fellow students and staff) don't have experience in working with your interests. Yes, you can hypothetically start something and create possibilities but to what effect? New Haven isn't exactly connected with a lot of IDEV activities going on. At best, you have a great relationship with your classmates, and do some interesting academic projects. However, you won't get much meaningful experience based learning (at least in New Haven... you might able to organize some travel activities when COVID ends). 

Also, for whatever reason, you don't like the small number of people you are stuck with, you don't have any other social / academic engagement options. You guys are pretty much stuck with each other. With SIPA, by virtue of numbers, there will be other people in similar situations that you can bond with. 

I say this because I was the one of many firsts in my graduate program (and we were bigger than Jackson, but still about 70 or so a class). I was the first male who tried to be actively involved in the women's organization (been a women's groups' supporter for many years). I was the first who previously was an instructor at a college. I was the first person trying to do research on men's labor issues (there is actually a lot going there). I found it super frustrating that the staff and classmates were only used to cookie cutter situations and had no idea how to support me and honestly didn't care about my experience or opinion because they had no idea what to expect. Luckily, I was able to find activities in Washington, DC and my greater University whereby I could get involved in things and meet people that were able to support me. 

3. There is a lot to be said about learning how to navigate New York.

Yes, SIPA, Columbia, and New York can be kind of impersonal. There is a lot of bureaucracy. People are not always the nicest. With undergrad, I would totally say its normal to have a nice nurturing environment. For grad school, I think there is a lot to be said about learning how to navigate the bureaucracy and chaos to get things done. It will make you stronger coming out of it. 

4. Classrooms interaction quality.

It is also my understanding that Jackson has traditionally a younger class cohort (correct me someone if I am wrong). SIPA has a greater diversity of age. With 7 years work experience, I don't know how excited you are to go to school with people with mostly 0 to 3 years of work experience. 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[prokem]

18 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

@prokem... I think the piece that you are missing is that you haven't been interacting with Ford MPP students. From what I understand they are relatively diverse and experienced as well. I think have a tight student community is important... but if there is no pathway to learn what you want to learn, then you aren't getting what really matters for going to grad school --> your desired career outcomes. 

Good points! Like I mentioned I'm hoping that this week of virtual events will bring more clarity. 

On the point of Yale not having too many profs in adaptation and resilience, I would only say that it is a relatively new discipline and one that is still emerging. Most of the people I've interacted with in the field do not have a graduate background in it specifically. I think it would be helpful for me to talk to some of them, regardless of what grad program they went to, about the state of the field and some essential skills they picked up in grad school.

[LazarusRises]

OK, I'm going to chime in with my dilemma. This forum has been endlessly helpful while navigating stressful waters, so why stop now??

I've been admitted to Duke's Nicholas School of the Environment for a Masters in Environmental Management, as well as Columbia SIPA for an MPA in Energy & Environment. Both offered me decent funding, around 30% tuition. Columbia has been my top choice throughout the admissions cycle, as New York is home and I'd love to be back there, not to mention that SIPA and NYC are probably the best places in the world to launch a career in international sustainable development. 

I'm now worrying about the possibility that fall classes at Columbia will be held virtually. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if I were in undergrad, but really the academic content is around half of the reason I'm going to grad school in the first place--especially in this field, the networking & practical experience are a huge part of the draw. 

So, if the Columbia campus is still closed come August (which will also likely mean that NYC is a nightmare zone), is it worth missing out on a semester of "real grad school" so I can have that program as my springboard, or should I go to Duke instead? I already live in Durham and my apartment is a 5-minute bike ride from campus, so that would be extremely convenient; cost of living is also significantly cheaper here. 

Of course none of us can know the future, so this will probably be decided later in the summer. I just wish Columbia would extend their deposit deadline like Duke has. 

Any input is appreciated! Thanks folks. 

[prokem]

2 hours ago, LazarusRises said:

OK, I'm going to chime in with my dilemma. This forum has been endlessly helpful while navigating stressful waters, so why stop now??

I've been admitted to Duke's Nicholas School of the Environment for a Masters in Environmental Management, as well as Columbia SIPA for an MPA in Energy & Environment. Both offered me decent funding, around 30% tuition. Columbia has been my top choice throughout the admissions cycle, as New York is home and I'd love to be back there, not to mention that SIPA and NYC are probably the best places in the world to launch a career in international sustainable development. 

I'm now worrying about the possibility that fall classes at Columbia will be held virtually. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if I were in undergrad, but really the academic content is around half of the reason I'm going to grad school in the first place--especially in this field, the networking & practical experience are a huge part of the draw. 

So, if the Columbia campus is still closed come August (which will also likely mean that NYC is a nightmare zone), is it worth missing out on a semester of "real grad school" so I can have that program as my springboard, or should I go to Duke instead? I already live in Durham and my apartment is a 5-minute bike ride from campus, so that would be extremely convenient; cost of living is also significantly cheaper here. 

Of course none of us can know the future, so this will probably be decided later in the summer. I just wish Columbia would extend their deposit deadline like Duke has. 

Any input is appreciated! Thanks folks. 

Definitely a tough situation for many of us. Personally, I wouldn't advise turning down your top choice based on possibilities/conjecture. I'm in NYC right now and it's definitely a sh*tshow. But they're also projecting that we'll peak in a few weeks. There are many other parts of the country that are still in their nascent stages of infection and spread, which means, in many cases, they will be dealing with this for longer than we will here in NY. It's impossible to say if Raleigh will be one of those places, but it seems to me like a risk either way. Have you considered the possibility of deferring? I am sure that schools will be more accommodating with them than usual. I completely agree that it doesn't seem totally worth it to start school online.

[failure2connect]

Hi everyone!

I've enjoyed reading y'all's posts, and I wanted to see if anyone had thoughts on my situation.

Coming from:
Philadelphia most recently, Indianapolis before that. Originally from Texas

Deciding between: 

MPA at American University - 16k/yr in tuition after aid

MPA at Cornell  - 8k/yr in tuition after aid

MPP at Brandeis - 16k/yr in tuition after aid

Factors:
My background is in social policy - I've worked at a small non-profit focused on food security and in local gov on housing. I'm definitely not interested in working for smaller non-profits or for-profits; my experience with local government in a major city has been great, and I can see myself pursuing a career in big (progressive) cities like Boston, Philly, Chicago, even Baltimore. However, most positions open in these cities ask for 4-6 years of experience, and they either want more specific knowledge of administration or policy, depending on the position. The way I see these schools:

• AU would let me gain a lot of professional experience, which seems invaluable considering that experience is what I lack. DC has orgs like the National League of Cities (or federal gov, if I choose that option), and AU is strong in local government courses despite being in DC. Their student services and career services seem intense, and I like the various institutes they have (Women and Politics, for example). Drawback: their program is slimmer than others (39 credits vs 64 at Brandeis), so I kind of feel like I'm getting less bang for my buck
• Cornell is very interdisciplinary and I could really engage with other schools that work on poverty issues. I have a bit of a complex about going to a state school for undergrad (I know this is a stupid reason to consider), and I love the idea of the Cornell name. Their externship program is fine, and I could do a summer internship. Maybe most importantly, their merit aid offer is fantastic, and cost of living would be better in Ithaca. Drawback: freaking Ithaca. I'm from a small town and swore I would never go small again. Is it worth spending two years of my life so far away from professional opportunities?
• Brandeis is kind of middle ground between the other two. Huge focus on social policy, love the curriculum, Boston is a solid city to make connections/get professional exp in. However, I worry about the lack of name recognition outside the northeast and/or the school being viewed as "too liberal" by some employers.

How I'm leaning:

Admittedly I'm super indecisive. I'm leaning AU mostly because this is ultimately a professional program and DC would open a lot of doors for me. They value public service, and I think I could negotiate my aid offer up a little to make COA closer to Cornell's offer. However, it makes me a little sad to be giving up some of the academic opportunities that Cornell and Brandeis offer.

As a side note, I'm also in at Ford but their aid offer sucked. I like their program and their outreach has been great, but that's a dealbreaker.

[GradSchoolGrad]

16 hours ago, failure2connect said:

Hi everyone!

I've enjoyed reading y'all's posts, and I wanted to see if anyone had thoughts on my situation.

Coming from:
Philadelphia most recently, Indianapolis before that. Originally from Texas

Deciding between: 

MPA at American University - 16k/yr in tuition after aid

MPA at Cornell  - 8k/yr in tuition after aid

MPP at Brandeis - 16k/yr in tuition after aid

Factors:
My background is in social policy - I've worked at a small non-profit focused on food security and in local gov on housing. I'm definitely not interested in working for smaller non-profits or for-profits; my experience with local government in a major city has been great, and I can see myself pursuing a career in big (progressive) cities like Boston, Philly, Chicago, even Baltimore. However, most positions open in these cities ask for 4-6 years of experience, and they either want more specific knowledge of administration or policy, depending on the position. The way I see these schools:

• AU would let me gain a lot of professional experience, which seems invaluable considering that experience is what I lack. DC has orgs like the National League of Cities (or federal gov, if I choose that option), and AU is strong in local government courses despite being in DC. Their student services and career services seem intense, and I like the various institutes they have (Women and Politics, for example). Drawback: their program is slimmer than others (39 credits vs 64 at Brandeis), so I kind of feel like I'm getting less bang for my buck
• Cornell is very interdisciplinary and I could really engage with other schools that work on poverty issues. I have a bit of a complex about going to a state school for undergrad (I know this is a stupid reason to consider), and I love the idea of the Cornell name. Their externship program is fine, and I could do a summer internship. Maybe most importantly, their merit aid offer is fantastic, and cost of living would be better in Ithaca. Drawback: freaking Ithaca. I'm from a small town and swore I would never go small again. Is it worth spending two years of my life so far away from professional opportunities?
• Brandeis is kind of middle ground between the other two. Huge focus on social policy, love the curriculum, Boston is a solid city to make connections/get professional exp in. However, I worry about the lack of name recognition outside the northeast and/or the school being viewed as "too liberal" by some employers.

How I'm leaning:

Admittedly I'm super indecisive. I'm leaning AU mostly because this is ultimately a professional program and DC would open a lot of doors for me. They value public service, and I think I could negotiate my aid offer up a little to make COA closer to Cornell's offer. However, it makes me a little sad to be giving up some of the academic opportunities that Cornell and Brandeis offer.

As a side note, I'm also in at Ford but their aid offer sucked. I like their program and their outreach has been great, but that's a dealbreaker.

It sounds like you have 2 years or so experience... so these are my thoughts catered specifically to you (and decently different than for someone who has like 5 or so years of work experience). 

Bottom line, CIPA is likely the best bet for you.

1. Yes... AU does have the benefit of being from DC... however part of AU's key advantage would be to work on live projects. However... in a recession, places don't have money to really hire for part time paid interns. If you are okay with doing lots of unpaid work to pad your resume... that might work. However, I have never seen or heard of an AU MPA person working part time in the DC world. Given how small the program is and how AU doesn't really have that much brand equity (you are competing with more than just Georgetown, George Washington, Maryland, and Howard... but you are competing with hard charging undergrads (who okay with being paid less) + schools that have a year or semester in DC (for example Heinz MPP). Proximity to something doesn't mean access to it. 

2. CIPA might be annoying being in upstate New York and away from a major metropolitan area... BUT you A: have the most scholarship from them and B: you can go hog wild doing research projects for professor or research institutes (I would like see if the research institutes match up with your interests. Also, CIPA allows you to have a broad range of education. I will tell you point blank that to understand housing and/or food policy really well, you have to understand supply chain and investments, which would be rather difficult to get at AU.

3. Brandeis - don't go there period. Doesn't have the brand equity whatsover in public policy. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

On 4/2/2020 at 9:14 AM, LazarusRises said:

OK, I'm going to chime in with my dilemma. This forum has been endlessly helpful while navigating stressful waters, so why stop now??

I've been admitted to Duke's Nicholas School of the Environment for a Masters in Environmental Management, as well as Columbia SIPA for an MPA in Energy & Environment. Both offered me decent funding, around 30% tuition. Columbia has been my top choice throughout the admissions cycle, as New York is home and I'd love to be back there, not to mention that SIPA and NYC are probably the best places in the world to launch a career in international sustainable development. 

I'm now worrying about the possibility that fall classes at Columbia will be held virtually. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if I were in undergrad, but really the academic content is around half of the reason I'm going to grad school in the first place--especially in this field, the networking & practical experience are a huge part of the draw. 

So, if the Columbia campus is still closed come August (which will also likely mean that NYC is a nightmare zone), is it worth missing out on a semester of "real grad school" so I can have that program as my springboard, or should I go to Duke instead? I already live in Durham and my apartment is a 5-minute bike ride from campus, so that would be extremely convenient; cost of living is also significantly cheaper here. 

Of course none of us can know the future, so this will probably be decided later in the summer. I just wish Columbia would extend their deposit deadline like Duke has. 

Any input is appreciated! Thanks folks. 

@LazarusRises...

So normally, I would say hands down Nicholas school. The confounding factor is that you want to return to NYC. I recommend you do a LinkedIn Search (you might have to pay for the advanced membership) and filter for Nicholas school alums in New York to see who ends up in New York and what they do. Then do the same for SIPA grads in environmental roles. That is a good way to compare them.

So the reason I would normally say the Nicholas school is for two reasons.

1. They are much more equipped to do science part of environmental management (my understanding is that Duke has environmental facilities), and honestly that would distinguish you.

2. Nicholas actually has a way super reputation to SIPA for Environmental stuff. 

3. SIPA is good with domestic policy, but that isn't their forte... it more focuses on IR and IDEV. 

I know plenty of Nicholas people who are in awesome environmental jobs in DC (not NYC though). I never met a SIPA person in environmental ever... All the SIPA people I have ever met are IR or urban policy. 

[ch442]

4 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

@LazarusRises...

So normally, I would say hands down Nicholas school. The confounding factor is that you want to return to NYC. I recommend you do a LinkedIn Search (you might have to pay for the advanced membership) and filter for Nicholas school alums in New York to see who ends up in New York and what they do. Then do the same for SIPA grads in environmental roles. That is a good way to compare them.

So the reason I would normally say the Nicholas school is for two reasons.

1. They are much more equipped to do science part of environmental management (my understanding is that Duke has environmental facilities), and honestly that would distinguish you.

2. Nicholas actually has a way super reputation to SIPA for Environmental stuff. 

3. SIPA is good with domestic policy, but that isn't their forte... it more focuses on IR and IDEV. 

I know plenty of Nicholas people who are in awesome environmental jobs in DC (not NYC though). I never met a SIPA person in environmental ever... All the SIPA people I have ever met are IR or urban policy. 

I'm also an environmental policy person who was accepted into both of these programs (although am leaning toward Yale or Harvard). I would push back a bit on @GradSchoolGrad's characterization of SIPA. I know several alums who now work in energy or environment policy. One works in state government related to energy/water and another is a consultant in energy markets. SIPA has actually been really investing in the area, with the Center on Global Energy Policy. As a Columbia student, you'd also have access to the Earth Institute and faculty like Jeffrey Sachs, one of the world's leading experts on sustainable development. The Energy and Environment concentration at SIPA has a group of 30+ students per class, so you won't be alone in your interest. If you definitely want to do sustainable development work internationally, I would lean toward SIPA. The number of opportunities related to international development seem great at SIPA (compared to the less international focus of the Nic School). My one concern might be cost. You say that each school gave you a 30% scholarship but tuition and cost of living at SIPA are much higher. I wouldn't choose based on current COVID-19 dynamics. By the fall, who knows where Durham or NYC will be.

(Full disclosure: I attended Columbia for undergrad)

Edited April 4, 2020 by ch442

[ehallwyo]

On 4/2/2020 at 11:04 PM, failure2connect said:

Hi everyone!

I've enjoyed reading y'all's posts, and I wanted to see if anyone had thoughts on my situation.

Coming from:
Philadelphia most recently, Indianapolis before that. Originally from Texas

Deciding between: 

MPA at American University - 16k/yr in tuition after aid

MPA at Cornell  - 8k/yr in tuition after aid

MPP at Brandeis - 16k/yr in tuition after aid

Factors:
My background is in social policy - I've worked at a small non-profit focused on food security and in local gov on housing. I'm definitely not interested in working for smaller non-profits or for-profits; my experience with local government in a major city has been great, and I can see myself pursuing a career in big (progressive) cities like Boston, Philly, Chicago, even Baltimore. However, most positions open in these cities ask for 4-6 years of experience, and they either want more specific knowledge of administration or policy, depending on the position. The way I see these schools:

• AU would let me gain a lot of professional experience, which seems invaluable considering that experience is what I lack. DC has orgs like the National League of Cities (or federal gov, if I choose that option), and AU is strong in local government courses despite being in DC. Their student services and career services seem intense, and I like the various institutes they have (Women and Politics, for example). Drawback: their program is slimmer than others (39 credits vs 64 at Brandeis), so I kind of feel like I'm getting less bang for my buck
• Cornell is very interdisciplinary and I could really engage with other schools that work on poverty issues. I have a bit of a complex about going to a state school for undergrad (I know this is a stupid reason to consider), and I love the idea of the Cornell name. Their externship program is fine, and I could do a summer internship. Maybe most importantly, their merit aid offer is fantastic, and cost of living would be better in Ithaca. Drawback: freaking Ithaca. I'm from a small town and swore I would never go small again. Is it worth spending two years of my life so far away from professional opportunities?
• Brandeis is kind of middle ground between the other two. Huge focus on social policy, love the curriculum, Boston is a solid city to make connections/get professional exp in. However, I worry about the lack of name recognition outside the northeast and/or the school being viewed as "too liberal" by some employers.

How I'm leaning:

Admittedly I'm super indecisive. I'm leaning AU mostly because this is ultimately a professional program and DC would open a lot of doors for me. They value public service, and I think I could negotiate my aid offer up a little to make COA closer to Cornell's offer. However, it makes me a little sad to be giving up some of the academic opportunities that Cornell and Brandeis offer.

As a side note, I'm also in at Ford but their aid offer sucked. I like their program and their outreach has been great, but that's a dealbreaker.

As you know, we ended up with the same top two. My advice is to reach out to AU to see if they will match CIPA's offer--I did this and they not only matched it but actually came back with an even better one. This way you can "cancel out" the question of money when you're comparing the two. Good luck!

[GradSchoolGrad]

7 hours ago, ch442 said:

I'm also an environmental policy person who was accepted into both of these programs (although am leaning toward Yale or Harvard). I would push back a bit on @GradSchoolGrad's characterization of SIPA. I know several alums who now work in energy or environment policy. One works in state government related to energy/water and another is a consultant in energy markets. SIPA has actually been really investing in the area, with the Center on Global Energy Policy. As a Columbia student, you'd also have access to the Earth Institute and faculty like Jeffrey Sachs, one of the world's leading experts on sustainable development. The Energy and Environment concentration at SIPA has a group of 30+ students per class, so you won't be alone in your interest. If you definitely want to do sustainable development work internationally, I would lean toward SIPA. The number of opportunities related to international development seem great at SIPA (compared to the less international focus of the Nic School). My one concern might be cost. You say that each school gave you a 30% scholarship but tuition and cost of living at SIPA are much higher. I wouldn't choose based on current COVID-19 dynamics. By the fall, who knows where Durham or NYC will be.

(Full disclosure: I attended Columbia for undergrad)

1. You are absolutely right, SIPA is much better suited for policy / work from an international perspective

2. Actually, I was thinking about Professor Jeffrey Sachs as a negative. Granted he has in some ways been a popularized academic with a lot of near celeb clout, in the early 2010s, he was involved in a controversy about possible academic dishonesty (on his part). Cliff notes, he announced findings for development that the rest of the academic community discredited. Granted he still has a popular following and is still a giant in Columbia, to large swaths of the academic community he is persona non-grata. I randomly came about this because there was an effort to have him as a speaker at event. Funds were even considered to pay for his presence. It was then highlighted about the reputation dangers of being associated with Jeff Sachs, which stopped the effort in its tracks.

Some specific articles that speak of this are:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/06/24/does-it-take-a-village/

https://psmag.com/social-justice/smart-guy-jeffrey-sachs-nina-munk-idealist-poverty-failure-africa-65348

Also, I am not going to mention the other controversies Jeff Sachs has gotten himself involved (social media related) since they aren't academic related, but they are there. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad