2022 Creative Writing MFA Applicants Forum

[xenawins]

57 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

Well, buckle up. There are so

57 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

One of my classmates, instead of giving me helpful feedback has called my work "lousy", an "accordion car crash", has explained that he would have done ___ because it's "better", and doodles on his copy of my work in class instead of giving me verbal feedback (something he does for everyone else).

•  
• One of my classmates, instead of giving me helpful feedback has called my work "lousy", an "accordion car crash", has explained that he would have done ___ because it's "better", and doodles on his copy of my work in class instead of giving me verbal feedback (something he does for everyone else).

Okay, just have to come back to this absolute douche-canoe of a human.... might I suggest wiping your ass with his copy next time?? I really find this kind of attitude towards people's work and art so incredibly gross. I'd suggest giving him your own "verbal feedback" but I have a feeling, in the environment you've described, they would someone figure out a way to blame you. So you'll have to settle for my absolute OUTRAGE on your behalf. *huff huff, stomp stomp*

[koechophe]

Not sure what type of things I was expecting, but it wasn't anything as intense as that. Boy have you been gentle on describing your reasons for switching programs. There's a large part of me that wonders how people like that even got into programs, much less found themselves in teaching roles. 

1 hour ago, Ydrl said:

It might be neurodivergent based, since the "intense" comment from my teacher came around.

I don't have experience with the racial subtext for that, but I do know "intense" is a big thing for neurodiverse people. I used to be called too "serious" all the time. When I wanted to buckle down and get to work, the other people would get angry at me for being so "serious," type thing. Honestly, it's appalling that's how your MFA is going. 

I was half-expecting some things which were, like, mistakes reasonable people can make but don't realize they're making. Those are the kinds of things I worry about, but wow is that negative. 

1 hour ago, Ydrl said:

I know I'm not palatable to most people, but that comment confirmed my worst fears about what others think about me.

I just want to say that I find this heartbreaking, primarily because I grew up feeling the same way. At some point in life, I internalized the idea that "people don't like me." And it became so ingrained in me that in order to protect myself, I learned how to not care what people think about me (at least, to some degree). For years and years, I always assumed any stranger, any new person I met, would dislike me. 

It made it almost impossible for me to ask people out, to join new clubs or social groups, to do pretty much any of those things. It was only when I went to college (and tried to do that stuff) that I realized I had a deep problem. It took a lot of work and some really good friends (the most important being my long-time friend, who later became my wife) for me to realize that no, people don't hate me. 

Sometimes people dislike us or shun us because we are an uncomfortable reminder of truths they wish they could ignore. In school, a lot of people in my debate club were always on my case about being too serious. I was too serious about it, too serious in the work, I tried too hard, etc. But I would win competitions, and they would lose, and they'd chalk it up to bad judging and say it was out of their control... except I kept doing it, so they really couldn't.

I represented an extremely uncomfortable truth: if they were willing to work harder (and smarter), they could've won. 

As someone who is ace, I represented some pretty uncomfortable truths for the guys around me, too--the truth that sexual attraction is a layer in perception that most people are incapable of peeling off (which I don't actually think is a bad thing, btw, but it's certainly uncomfortable to a lot of people). In our discussions, I've even made my wife uncomfortable as she's come to realize how much sexual attraction has affected her own life (it's easier for people to realize this when they speak to someone who doesn't experience it at all). 

I know it's not easy, but the world needs more people who represent uncomfortable truths. The writing community needs them desperately. There's always room for self-improvement, sure, and learning to have a genuinely good impact on people around you is a lifelong pursuit.

But, If the people around you don't often find you palatable, maybe it's because your truths make them uncomfortable. Because in some way, your work itself, your dedication to your craft, your diversity, your story, or SOME part of what makes you unique and special reminds people of things they don't want to face. 

It's rough, but it is also no reason to think worse of yourself. And I choose to believe and hope that you'll eventually find a place where people are comfortable with the truths you represent. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by koechophe

[panglosian]

First call got made from Ohio State for CNF (posted in Draft ~10 mins ago)

It begins.

Good luck y'all ❤️

[MDP]

11 hours ago, panglosian said:

First call got made from Ohio State for CNF (posted in Draft ~10 mins ago)

Is this earlier than normal or do they generally notify around now? I didn't apply here, just wondering whether we might see notifs earlier than normal this season...wishful thinking

[koechophe]

4 hours ago, Red Letter said:

Everyone will agree you should never rat out a classmate for doing coke. Petty and vindictive. 

Allow me to disprove your skills of prediction: I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

There are good reasons to report someone else for ANY rule-breaking they might do. Assuming they are being petty or vindictive is needlessly judgmental. 

I honestly hate the fact that "don't be a tattle-tale" actually has a place outside of kindergarten. It's childish and stupid. When you sign up to go to school, you agree to a set of rules. Sometimes, those rules are VERY explicit that you're required to report things like that. 

Why we place blame and negative emotions towards the people who uphold the agreement they made when they joined the school, I'll never know.

I won't fault people for keeping quiet, but I respect that coming forward is a hard thing to do, and people being whiny and judgmental about it need to grow up. At the end of a day, if someone gets kicked out of a program for breaking the rules, it is on their shoulders alone. 

[panglosian]

1 hour ago, MDP said:

Is this earlier than normal or do they generally notify around now? I didn't apply here, just wondering whether we might see notifs earlier than normal this season...wishful thinking

For Ohio State, historically, yes. Ohio generally kicks off the season usually but in the past five years or so it’s never been this early.

But, different cohorts finish acceptances at different speeds. CNF was likely to be first.

Also, this is not an indication that other schools are the same, or that the other genres might be quick to follow. Sometimes it can be days or even a week before other genres begin to hear. So don’t sweat it right now!

(PS: second acceptance has already been made in CNF for Ohio, for anyone who needs to know)

(Edit: three acceptances)

Edited January 12, 2022 by panglosian

[Ydrl]

Hopefully Ohio State's super early acceptances are a good sign for the season. ?

[MDP]

46 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

Hopefully Ohio State's super early acceptances are a good sign for the season. ?

Gahhh hoping so. Does anyone have a general projected timeline for when the other schools notify? There should be a little stats spreadsheet or something, ha

[panglosian]

2 minutes ago, MDP said:

Gahhh hoping so. Does anyone have a general projected timeline for when the other schools notify? There should be a little stats spreadsheet or something, ha

I'm not sure what schools you're applying to, but based on my own acceptances/rejections last year and the GradCafe/Draft stats I've skimmed, these are the stats I've figured for the schools that I'm applying to. Note, they are very rough, take this as a window and not a target:

OSU: A January 20th, W January 21st, R January 22nd (obviously wrong this year lmao)

UMass: A February 5th, W February 8th, R February 10th

GMU: A February 2-5th, W March 25th, R ???

Syracuse: A ???, W February 25th February, R February 25th

Cornell: A February 22nd, W February 25th, R February 26th

Hollins: A February 25th, W March 9th, R February 26th

VCU: A March 3rd, W March 5th, R March 8th 

Brown: A March 4th, W March 10th, R March 10th

(A lot of these are also skewed towards poetry in some cases)

[koechophe]

1 hour ago, Ydrl said:

Hopefully Ohio State's super early acceptances are a good sign for the season.

So last year, we had this massive number of people apply for grad school, and a lot of people said it's because unemployment was so high.

There's this small, selfish part of me that hopes less people applied this year. Either because unemployment is so much lower or because so many people's dreams were crushed last year. 

I'm assuming that less people applying = faster response times. 

[panglosian]

42 minutes ago, koechophe said:

So last year, we had this massive number of people apply for grad school, and a lot of people said it's because unemployment was so high.

There's this small, selfish part of me that hopes less people applied this year. Either because unemployment is so much lower or because so many people's dreams were crushed last year. 

I'm assuming that less people applying = faster response times. 

Hey! I totally get it, you want to figure out a method to the madness, same here.

However it would be best for me to say now that the situation from last year most likely has not changed at all. Try not to let yourself get sucked into the stats and specificities of it all, at the end of the day it only comes down to one person: you!

[panglosian]

(Also, there’s officially been a fiction acceptance for ohio state in draft. I know there’s lots of fiction people here so plan accordingly.)

[Rm714]

16 minutes ago, panglosian said:

(Also, there’s officially been a fiction acceptance for ohio state in draft. I know there’s lots of fiction people here so plan accordingly.)

Goodness! I still have two February 1st deadlines that I've not yet submitted, and there are already acceptances going out..! (For other programs, of course, but still. Early start to notification season! Though it gives me something to take my mind off of my own waiting..)

[koechophe]

45 minutes ago, panglosian said:

However it would be best for me to say now that the situation from last year most likely has not changed at all. Try not to let yourself get sucked into the stats and specificities of it all, at the end of the day it only comes down to one person: you!

Oh, admissions definitely do, but I can still hope for a shorter waiting period ? 

[koechophe]

7 minutes ago, Red Letter said:

Well, I for one do fault the tattle tellers, especially with drugs because the law is arbitrary

It doesn't matter if you disagree with the law. When you agree to attend a graduate program, you agree to abide by the rules in their code of conduct. Those obviously include not breaking the law, but often go further. Some schools will discipline students from drinking on campus, even though alcohol itself is legal.

Some schools will even discipline or expel students for refusing to report violations they witnessed. Most every code of conduct I've read stipulates a requirement to report things if you witness them.

Code of conduct is an agreement that you sign with the school when you apply. If you aren't willing to follow the terms, don't sign the agreement. 

It boggles my mind how many people don't read their school's code of conduct. 

Say whatever you want about me, but I believe that people should be held accountable when they break their agreements. Would I report things like that if I saw them? I don't know. I'm not the type of person who goes to those parties, or who people are comfortable doing drugs around.

But I respect the decision to come forward. And if people are punished for breaking their agreement, it lies on their shoulders and no one else's. 

[MDP]

Made a list of all of last year's earliest reported acceptances that went out between Jan. - Feb. 2021 (according to GradCafe -- I don't do Draft):
 

1/15
U. of Illinois

1/20
Ohio State University

1/28
Miami University (Ohio)

1/30
Vermont College of Fine Arts

1/31
University of Oregon

2/1
Western Michigan University

2/2
George Mason University, Boise State University

2/3
Indiana University Bloomington, Florida State University, UC Davis

2/4
George Mason University, Bowling Green State University

2/5
Chatham University

2/6
University of Nevada Reno, University of Idaho, University of Minnesota

2/7
U Mass Amherst

2/8
SUNY Stony Brook, Rutgers University

2/9
NC State

2/10
WashU St. Louis

2/12
Oklahoma State University, Arizona State University, Vanderbilt University, UMass Boston, UC San Diego

2/13
Northern Arizona University

2/15
University of Tennessee, Southern Illinois University

2/16
University of British Columbia, University of Alabama, University of South Florida

2/18
Writer's Foundry at St. Joseph's

2/19
NYU, University of Missouri - Kansas City, University of Central Florida

2/21
University of Wisconsin - Madison, University of Montana, University of Iowa, University of Minnesota

2/22
University of Michigan - Ann Arbor, Temple University, University of New Mexico

2/23
Cornell, Cal Arts, VA Tech

2/24
University of New Hampshire, Lindenwood University, Chatham University, Minnesota State University, UWashington - Seattle

2/25
VA Tech, Hollins, George Mason, Syracuse, Northern Michigan University - Marquette, University of Houston, Northern Arizona University

2/26
Notre Dame, U Mass Boston, Iowa State University, UNC Greensboro, West VA University, Oregon State, Iowa Writer's Workshop, Cornell,

2/27
University of Mississippi, Michener

2/28
SAIC, UT Austin, UNLV

[MDP]

13 minutes ago, koechophe said:

It boggles my mind how many people don't read their school's code of conduct. 

Say whatever you want about me, but I believe that people should be held accountable when they break their agreements. Would I report things like that if I saw them? I don't know. I'm not the type of person who goes to those parties, or who people are comfortable doing drugs around.

I think codes of conduct (especially in grad school, and especially re: use) are generally a formality. Most Deans/profs/etc. wouldn't bat an eye even if it were reported. Adults do what they do, and if it doesn't endanger minors or contribute to academic dishonesty, most schools don't take it very seriously. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on individual opinion. But more adults do coke than you might think, lol.

[Yellow62]

39 minutes ago, koechophe said:

It doesn't matter if you disagree with the law. When you agree to attend a graduate program, you agree to abide by the rules in their code of conduct. Those obviously include not breaking the law, but often go further. Some schools will discipline students from drinking on campus, even though alcohol itself is legal.

Some schools will even discipline or expel students for refusing to report violations they witnessed. Most every code of conduct I've read stipulates a requirement to report things if you witness them.

Code of conduct is an agreement that you sign with the school when you apply. If you aren't willing to follow the terms, don't sign the agreement. 

It boggles my mind how many people don't read their school's code of conduct. 

Say whatever you want about me, but I believe that people should be held accountable when they break their agreements. Would I report things like that if I saw them? I don't know. I'm not the type of person who goes to those parties, or who people are comfortable doing drugs around.

But I respect the decision to come forward. And if people are punished for breaking their agreement, it lies on their shoulders and no one else's. 

Sorry, but this absurd, conservative, violent, authoritarian logic. 

[koechophe]

21 minutes ago, Yellow62 said:

Sorry, but this absurd, conservative, violent, authoritarian logic. 

Eh, you can think it's absurd if you'd like. Conservative, definitely, though I don't think that word is necessarily a direct insult. But I'm politically moderate, so meh. 

I know that's probably how most people view it, but I am a proponent of agreements having SOME sort of value. If people agree to a code of conduct, I think it's faulty to complain about consequences for not following it, and especially to blame the people who reported them. 

I am genuinely curious as to how this constitutes "violent," though. 

 

[Ydrl]

13 minutes ago, koechophe said:

Eh, you can think it's absurd if you'd like. Conservative, definitely, though I don't think that word is necessarily a direct insult. But I'm politically moderate, so meh. 

I know that's probably how most people view it, but I am a proponent of agreements having SOME sort of value. If people agree to a code of conduct, I think it's faulty to complain about consequences for not following it, and especially to blame the people who reported them. 

I am genuinely curious as to how this constitutes "violent," though. 

 

I'm with you on this in a way. I don't necessarily think it's conservative or violent to have people be held accountable for their actions. Especially considering one of the TAs in question got so coked up he cancelled his class the morning of...

I'm personally okay with some drugs being made legal, but as long as they are illegal, maybe don't cancel class because of it. That's a disaster...

Edited January 12, 2022 by Ydrl

[koechophe]

1 minute ago, Ydrl said:

I'm personally okay with some drugs being made legal, but as long as they are illegal, maybe don't cancel class because of it. That's a disaster...

Yeah, like, I honestly don't think the government should say you can't do drugs. I'm more okay with them saying not to do them in public places (if secondhand exposure can be an issue) or limiting them for kids, but limiting behavior because it's self-harmful is a pretty bad slippery slope.

I just get cranky when people have retribution against people who report things. Like, my older brother was in on-campus housing with his pregnant wife and 4-month-old baby. His next-door-neighbor kept smoking inside his house, and it was coming in through his vents and making both his wife and kid sick, so he reported it. 

I know people sometimes people make reports vindictively, but I honestly think that a lot of times, people do it with good intentions, and it's a very hard thing to do socially. I don't like it when those people are treated like the bad guys, or like it's their fault that someone gets disciplined.

 

 

[Ydrl]

God it's only 5 where I am and I'm ready to crash. I've been going to a daytime writer's retreat and it's exhausting writing/planning/reading from 9-5. Idk how people don't sign out early and work those 8 hours straight with only a 1 hour lunch break at 11...

[Yellow62]

38 minutes ago, Ydrl said:

I'm with you on this in a way. I don't necessarily think it's conservative or violent to have people be held accountable for their actions. Especially considering one of the TAs in question got so coked up he cancelled his class the morning of...

I'm personally okay with some drugs being made legal, but as long as they are illegal, maybe don't cancel class because of it. That's a disaster...

Sure, but this isn't what I'm talking about. The original post was about reporting any sort of guideline/law breakage, victimless or not. Going by this logic, it's virtuous to report seeing someone smoking weed in a state where it's illegal so that they may face expulsion from a program and/or criminal penalties. If either of you believe that's appropriate, I'd suggest tabling the MFA aspirations and picking up some applications for a job with your local police force. 

[koechophe]

7 minutes ago, Yellow62 said:

Going by this logic, it's virtuous to report seeing someone smoking weed in a state where it's illegal so that they may face expulsion from a program and/or criminal penalties.

Actually, there's a big difference.

We don't actually agree to laws. As much as someone could make the argument that by living in a country, someone is "naturally" agreeing to a law, there's some pretty big issues with that logic. Reporting anyone, anywhere, for raw law violations is another issue entirely because it's imposed on someone without their consent.

When someone has agreed to follow a code of conduct, there's a distinct difference because they offered their consent. I won't say it's inherently virtuous to report them--if someone does so out of vindictive desires, it's not a virtuous act.

But I dislike the notion that there ought to be reprisal against people for reporting things. I also think there should be SOME meaning to the fact that we agree to things. 

[Ydrl]

22 minutes ago, Yellow62 said:

Sure, but this isn't what I'm talking about. The original post was about reporting any sort of guideline/law breakage, victimless or not. Going by this logic, it's virtuous to report seeing someone smoking weed in a state where it's illegal so that they may face expulsion from a program and/or criminal penalties. If either of you believe that's appropriate, I'd suggest tabling the MFA aspirations and picking up some applications for a job with your local police force. 

I'm not here to argue, but here's what I think.

That's not what we were talking about initially, nor do I believe this was the intention of where this convo was going. I understand that's how it came off, but don't get it twisted. I won't speak for @koechopheon their feelings about their post, but this was not an event free of issue.

First, the main point of my post was to describe how I was abandoned at a party and had to go home with a total stranger. Idk how we got where we are, but lets discuss that for a sec. I was taken home by a stranger who could have easily abducted me, wiht my other option being that I was going to stay with strangers for the night. There were no Uber or Lyft drivers, and I couldn't afford a taxi. I also had work the next morning. End first part.

Second, and I realize this is minute, students pay a shit ton of money to come to school, some go into debt forever and to have their teacher actively cancel for a stupid reason doesn't make me have faith that they're taking their teaching seriously.

Again, I don't care that they are doing drugs. That's not my business, the after effects and repercussions of what they did to me and others are my business...

Idk if you're genuinely this upset that you'd tell me, a BROWN PERSON to drop my dreams as a writer and get a job as a police officer. Screw off with attacking us and tell us how you actually feel and why.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Ydrl