2023 Application Thread

[psstein]

On 8/25/2022 at 1:37 PM, CheckYesJules said:

I was just curious if others were getting similar responses that professors weren't taking new students due to the current state of history and academia. 

Yes, I've heard this. One of the faculty members in my grad program refused to take grad students due to the nature of his sub-field.

I would also counsel that, if you're having such trouble finding qualified advisors, there may be a very good reason (i.e., it's a dying field where there are truly zero jobs, like Byzantine History).

[dr. t]

FYI: https://www.historians.org/ahajobsreport2022

[AfricanusCrowther]

On 8/30/2022 at 9:51 PM, dr. telkanuru said:

FYI: https://www.historians.org/ahajobsreport2022

Thanks for this helpful if disturbing report. Is there any plan to produce an updated version of this chart?

[dr. t]

2 hours ago, AfricanusCrowther said:

Thanks for this helpful if disturbing report. Is there any plan to produce an updated version of this chart?

Ah, the "Graph of Doom (tm)". No, for a lot of reasons, chief among which is that it is built on the assumed truth that the only thing one can do with a PhD in history is become a professor. 

[psstein]

On 9/3/2022 at 11:09 AM, dr. telkanuru said:

Ah, the "Graph of Doom (tm)". No, for a lot of reasons, chief among which is that it is built on the assumed truth that the only thing one can do with a PhD in history is become a professor. 

Though I agree that there are multiple other career paths for history graduate degree holders, I would argue two things:

1) Most people going to graduate school in history want to become TT faculty.

2) Many, if not most of the "alt-ac" jobs history PhDs hold are jobs that you can hold with a PhD, vs. a job that requires a PhD.

I'm fairly hostile to much of the "alt-ac" shift, because I think it's largely a series of comforting lies faculty and admins tell themselves to justify having graduate students, especially in programs with poor placement records.

[AfricanusCrowther]

 

On 9/3/2022 at 11:09 AM, dr. telkanuru said:

Ah, the "Graph of Doom (tm)". No, for a lot of reasons, chief among which is that it is built on the assumed truth that the only thing one can do with a PhD in history is become a professor. 

The incessant doom and gloom is unhelpful, but IMHO universities could make alt ac careers viable by, for one thing, actually hiring their PhDs (as this essay points out). At my program alternative career programming is handled entirely by the students, which doesn't help.

Edited September 5, 2022 by AfricanusCrowther

[dr. t]

22 hours ago, psstein said:

I'm fairly hostile to much of the "alt-ac" shift, because I think it's largely a series of comforting lies faculty and admins tell themselves to justify having graduate students, especially in programs with poor placement records.

I am also hostile to badly-implemented policies.

But what's the solution to the problem posed by the Graph of Doom, i.e. PhDs are overproduced vs. the prevalence of academic jobs? Ban programs outside the top-20 from having PhD programs? That's both antidemocratic and insufferably elitist. It would really be the death-through-isolation of history within the academy. Create more academic jobs? Sure, are you paying?

Without a solution - or even a possible solution - what's the point of emphasizing the data?

 

[dr. t]

1 hour ago, AfricanusCrowther said:

 

The incessant doom and gloom is unhelpful, but IMHO universities could make alt ac careers viable by, for one thing, actually hiring their PhDs (as this essay points out). At my program alternative career programming is handled entirely by the students, which doesn't help.

This is a thing I struggle with, particularly being on the staff of an organization that's in a position to advocate but not to dictate. I can list off so many things that would fix academia, if only everyone would just magically agree to do them. At work we get tons of these. "You should mandate that..." (we have no enforcement power). "You shouldn't accredit..." (we don't accredit). "You should unionize..." (we're a 501c with a charter from congress). 

This is the Bernie Bro approach to academic policy, and the reality of the situation calls for a Liz Warren to actually get shit done.

[WhaleshipEssex]

2 hours ago, dr. telkanuru said:

This is the Bernie Bro approach to academic policy, and the reality of the situation calls for a Liz Warren to actually get shit done.

And if the analogy holds, we'll get neither. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by WhaleshipEssex

[dr. t]

29 minutes ago, WhaleshipEssex said:

And if the analogy holds, we'll get neither. 

The moral arc of the universe is long and bends towards Joe Biden.

[WhaleshipEssex]

10 minutes ago, dr. telkanuru said:

The moral arc of the universe is long and bends towards Joe Biden.

There's a 45 wig/whig joke in there if someone can get the funding to find it

[psstein]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:46 AM, dr. telkanuru said:

I am also hostile to badly-implemented policies.

But what's the solution to the problem posed by the Graph of Doom, i.e. PhDs are overproduced vs. the prevalence of academic jobs? Ban programs outside the top-20 from having PhD programs? That's both antidemocratic and insufferably elitist. It would really be the death-through-isolation of history within the academy. Create more academic jobs? Sure, are you paying?

Without a solution - or even a possible solution - what's the point of emphasizing the data?

 

Yes, I agree that most of the potential top-down solutions are terrible. AHA is never going to start accrediting programs (which it shouldn't), and barring universities from having PhD programs is an elitist, pointless idea.

I would argue that history is already dying via isolation in the academy (or largely has died).

[dr. t]

On 9/6/2022 at 4:49 PM, psstein said:

I would argue that history is already dying via isolation in the academy (or largely has died).

Nah, it's not like... classics, which has deliberately and obstinately written itself into irrelevancy. 

I think what you're actually seeing is the death of tenure, outside of R1s at least.

[wynntir]

Going into round 2 of applications (with a deferred masters in my back pocket!) Hopefully I will stick to my guns and not waste all day poking around the forum, but I do have two questions that I'm hoping somebody can help me with.

• I informed a Professor, whom I spoke to last year and really clicked with, that I was reapplying and she remembered me and wished me luck. She then reached out a few days later and suggested I submit a paper to an upcoming conference in my field to better my chances of acceptance into a graduate program and offered to help me work on the submission. She is the director of graduate studies at this Ivy institution. I don't want to read anything into this that's not there. Is this something POIs commonly offer? She is giving me great and specific feedback on my abstract and I am so grateful for her offer to help, but I don't want to be taking advantage of it if she was just being polite. This was/is my top choice school and I don't want to mess up this opportunity.
• I was really happy with my writing sample last time around. I have a backup, but it's not as well developed. If I re-apply certain places, would it look awful to re-submit the same writing sample (with minor improvements)? I guess I can develop my other research further, but it's so difficult to do research now that I don't have institutional access anywhere!

[OHSP]

5 hours ago, wynntir said:

Going into round 2 of applications (with a deferred masters in my back pocket!) Hopefully I will stick to my guns and not waste all day poking around the forum, but I do have two questions that I'm hoping somebody can help me with.

• I informed a Professor, whom I spoke to last year and really clicked with, that I was reapplying and she remembered me and wished me luck. She then reached out a few days later and suggested I submit a paper to an upcoming conference in my field to better my chances of acceptance into a graduate program and offered to help me work on the submission. She is the director of graduate studies at this Ivy institution. I don't want to read anything into this that's not there. Is this something POIs commonly offer? She is giving me great and specific feedback on my abstract and I am so grateful for her offer to help, but I don't want to be taking advantage of it if she was just being polite. This was/is my top choice school and I don't want to mess up this opportunity.
• I was really happy with my writing sample last time around. I have a backup, but it's not as well developed. If I re-apply certain places, would it look awful to re-submit the same writing sample (with minor improvements)? I guess I can develop my other research further, but it's so difficult to do research now that I don't have institutional access anywhere!

I wouldn't read too much into it -- she might just be a nice person/she might remember some big holes in your app and be trying to help you get into a different program/any program. I wouldn't take it as an "in" or even an opportunity beyond a professional relationship with this professor (which is different from an acceptance into the school's program). 
Change your writing sample--it didn't get you into the programs you applied to and it is a really important document. You don't need to start again from scratch or do new research, but you likely need to re-write the sample -- re-think your argument, your analysis, the structure of your chapter/essay etc. 

[AP]

On 9/18/2022 at 1:17 AM, OHSP said:

I wouldn't read too much into it -- she might just be a nice person/she might remember some big holes in your app and be trying to help you get into a different program/any program. I wouldn't take it as an "in" or even an opportunity beyond a professional relationship with this professor (which is different from an acceptance into the school's program). 
Change your writing sample--it didn't get you into the programs you applied to and it is a really important document. You don't need to start again from scratch or do new research, but you likely need to re-write the sample -- re-think your argument, your analysis, the structure of your chapter/essay etc. 

Second this, don't read into it. There are a million reasons why someone might remember your application, it might be because it was good, it might be because it reminded them of someone else. You don't have enough information right now to assume one thing or the other. Also improve your WS if you can, this is a crucial document. 

[beee]

hi! i hope everyone’s applications are going well! i’ve been reaching out to potential advisors but I keep getting the same response that they don’t meet with students before acceptances. my friend who applied last season (albeit in a different field) had multiple zoom meetings with POIs before even applying and said it was really crucial to her deciding where to apply/her eventual acceptance to her current program. I was just wondering if anyone else is having the same experience as me?  

Edited September 26, 2022 by beee

[CheckYesJules]

18 hours ago, beee said:

hi! i hope everyone’s applications are going well! i’ve been reaching out to potential advisors but I keep getting the same response that they don’t meet with students before acceptances. my friend who applied last season (albeit in a different field) had multiple zoom meetings with POIs before even applying and said it was really crucial to her deciding where to apply/her eventual acceptance to her current program. I was just wondering if anyone else is having the same experience as me?  

I only had one professor tell me that; most of mine, until recently, have just been e-mails saying they're not taking grad students. For that one professor, he said he doesn't meet because he doesn't have say in the admissions process. So maybe that's why yours are declining? 

[ladydobz]

On 9/25/2022 at 8:40 PM, beee said:

hi! i hope everyone’s applications are going well! i’ve been reaching out to potential advisors but I keep getting the same response that they don’t meet with students before acceptances. my friend who applied last season (albeit in a different field) had multiple zoom meetings with POIs before even applying and said it was really crucial to her deciding where to apply/her eventual acceptance to her current program. I was just wondering if anyone else is having the same experience as me?  

I think it depends on the school. I've met with multiple advisors at two of my schools, but the third school thought it was very odd that I was wanting to meet them before being accepted, and one advisor was almost rude about it, until she realized I wasn't trying to butter her up for my application, but instead was trying to see if the school and potential advisors were a good fit for me. Good luck with your applications! 

[AP]

On 9/25/2022 at 8:40 PM, beee said:

hi! i hope everyone’s applications are going well! i’ve been reaching out to potential advisors but I keep getting the same response that they don’t meet with students before acceptances. my friend who applied last season (albeit in a different field) had multiple zoom meetings with POIs before even applying and said it was really crucial to her deciding where to apply/her eventual acceptance to her current program. I was just wondering if anyone else is having the same experience as me?  

In addition to all responses, this is the first semester all faculty are fully in-person, which means we cannot meet so much on zoom because we have literally less time from commuting/walking across campus. Don't take it personally.

[toad11]

 

Hello! I have a rather weird question. I am currently in an English literature  phd programme but it is ranked in the 80s. The programme's ranking has fallen over the years since it used to be in the 30s just about 5 years ago. I was wondering if reapplying to a better programme is even an option and if people ever do that. When I came in I was concerned about the department's speciality in a sub-field but all the talk about rankings has had me freaked out and I have been wondering if I should continue in the current programme at all. It is a very small programme but the rankings are a bit unnerving. I am in my second year and can only make a major shift now. Any later than this would be suicidal! Also, is it okay to get recommendations from professors in my current programme? I am sorry if this sounds completely ridiculous but I have been having this nagging thought for a while now and haven't been able to do much due to crippling anxiety. I know this a history forum but thought I could get some suggestions here! Thanks in advance!

 

 

[OHSP]

19 hours ago, toad11 said:

 

Hello! I have a rather weird question. I am currently in an English literature  phd programme but it is ranked in the 80s. The programme's ranking has fallen over the years since it used to be in the 30s just about 5 years ago. I was wondering if reapplying to a better programme is even an option and if people ever do that. When I came in I was concerned about the department's speciality in a sub-field but all the talk about rankings has had me freaked out and I have been wondering if I should continue in the current programme at all. It is a very small programme but the rankings are a bit unnerving. I am in my second year and can only make a major shift now. Any later than this would be suicidal! Also, is it okay to get recommendations from professors in my current programme? I am sorry if this sounds completely ridiculous but I have been having this nagging thought for a while now and haven't been able to do much due to crippling anxiety. I know this a history forum but thought I could get some suggestions here! Thanks in advance!

 

 

Hey, this doesn't sound ridiculous but rankings are not the best reason to shift program, especially if you're getting those ranking from somewhere like US news -- no matter where you are the chances of a job are slim, and it's possible your program still has a good reputation (this is partly about your advisors). Are you being well supported by your current advisors? Have you been able to take the kinds of classes you wanted to take? Are there opportunities for you, including research funding? Do you think your dissertation is going to go where you want it to go if you stay in this program? Do you think you'll be supported through exams? I.e. are there reasons other than rankings to leave (or to stay)? 

FYI this is a history thread, but same advice applies. 

[cladthecrab]

After getting a positive response from a PI, I think I'm going to apply to a couple of my first choices this year, then if that doesn't work, go full-force next year when I've finished my MA. Working on my SoP, and a couple of questions:

-One program wants a section talking about personal background, contributing to diversity on campus, serving under-served communities with the degree. How personal/impersonal do I go here? They ask about first-gen status in that section, if that makes any difference.

-How heavy should I be going in historiography? I have a section where I mention a few authors in the context of coursework that influenced my MA work, and in my section about "fit" I mention that PI has influenced my view of [aspect of my research] but I don't know if there's a better way to do it.

[toad11]

On 11/2/2022 at 1:13 AM, OHSP said:

Hey, this doesn't sound ridiculous but rankings are not the best reason to shift program, especially if you're getting those ranking from somewhere like US news -- no matter where you are the chances of a job are slim, and it's possible your program still has a good reputation (this is partly about your advisors). Are you being well supported by your current advisors? Have you been able to take the kinds of classes you wanted to take? Are there opportunities for you, including research funding? Do you think your dissertation is going to go where you want it to go if you stay in this program? Do you think you'll be supported through exams? I.e. are there reasons other than rankings to leave (or to stay)? 

FYI this is a history thread, but same advice applies. 

Thanks so much for responding! The programme is super small which is an advantage--all the professors are very helpful too in spite of being pretty big names in their fields. The funding is pretty good too and once upon a time they used to be a prestigious programme--I don't know what has happened in the last 5 years or so but yes, for me, the ranking is the only factor that's leading me to such thoughts!

[psstein]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:54 PM, toad11 said:

Thanks so much for responding! The programme is super small which is an advantage--all the professors are very helpful too in spite of being pretty big names in their fields. The funding is pretty good too and once upon a time they used to be a prestigious programme--I don't know what has happened in the last 5 years or so but yes, for me, the ranking is the only factor that's leading me to such thoughts!

I would ignore the US News rankings and focus on the one ranking that matters: placement. Are graduates from your program getting the types of jobs you want to have when you finish? If they are, stay on. If not, leave.