Anxiety, Depression, Self-Doubt?

[strathmore]

Greetings,

This is my first semester of grad school. Briefly - I went straight from a big, party-loving state school to an Ivy League. My undergrad experience left me totally unprepared for the "real world" of academia.

Not a day goes by without me feeling like an idiot. I can't participate in class discussions for the life of me, the reading load is ridiculous, and I spend my entire weekend indoors studying. Last week, I attempted to discuss some of these concerns with my professor, and I ended up having a bona fide panic attack in his office! Up until that point, I didn't realize the extent of my anxiety.

I have serious doubts that I am even mentally capable of doing some of my assignments. To top it off, I have one class that is mixed with undergrads who consistently make me look like an ignoramus in my own research area!

Has anyone else here experienced this level of self-doubt? If so, did you manage to overcome it, and how? Where did you find support? (For the record, I do see a counselor and take meds.)

Thanks!

[poco_puffs]

I don't know if you've seen this Open Letter to Graduate Students from The Chronicle of Higher Education, but there is a LOT of advice from all disciplines and levels of graduate student and professors that is very applicable to your situation. To sum up the letter, the following comments, and some great advice I've gotten from a professor lately: You are going to feel like you don't know everything, because you DON'T know everything. That's why you're in graduate school. I won't say there isn't any competition at all in grad school, especially at a "name" school, but at least you beat the application competition to get into an Ivy (congrats!) and they obviously thought enough of you to bring you into the fold. You are part of their chosen group, whether it feels like that or not, and you had some very well-educated professionals with a lot of practice at admissions looking at your stuff and saying "You know what, this student is going to add something to our program."

Right now, especially with your mental and emotional health on the line, it's the time to stop comparing yourself to the other students in your classes and just focus on YOU-- the things that you need and the things that you can control. That includes you forgiving yourself for your shortcomings, when you don't know a particular term or you feel like you aren't engaging in the readings or discussions as thoroughly as your classmates (that's my biggest struggle, personally). It includes you being positive about whatever small things you can do or have going for you, including stuff outside of school. And, speaking of stuff outside of school, it includes you taking some time for yourself away from homework and school. Get some sleep, eat some incredibly healthy and/or delicious food, take a long walk, see a movie-- take two hours to give your brain a rest. Essentially, even if it seems counter-intuitive, take it down a notch. This is your first term, and at this point it looks like you're closer to burning out than flunking out. Breathe.

As to the anxiety and depression, I have a serious history of that myself. I know how crippling it can be. It hasn't hit me yet in grad school (I've been in a remission, you could say), but I know that I'll have to deal with it again sooner or later given an environment that can be so high-pressure. Continue with your counseling and medication, remember to take care of your body and soul before your education. Your health is ten million times more important than a few letters behind your name. You could know all the reading backwards and forward, but it won't help you if you've forgotten to sleep and eat for weeks and you're a bundle of nerves just ready to shatter.

Try to make contact with your professors and advisor(s) to apprise them of the situation and some of your specific worries about material, if there's something in particular that you can verbalize and focus on during the appointment. Don't let yourself get isolated out of fear or dread. Please never forget to reach out if you need help.

Edited October 17, 2010 by poco_puffs

[alexis]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I'm on gradcafe right now to procrastinate. I just looked at my stats homework, realized I have an exam in a week, and I have no idea what I'm doing.

Other students I've talked to are feeling the same way. My professors tell me feeling like this is completely normal (not that it makes me feel any smarter hearing that, though it does make me realize I'm not crazy).

I think a huge portion of first year, first semester PhD students feel this way: we feel like idiots. I actually laugh at our readings sometimes. The first sentence of a reading appears to be "As you already should know, the jiggidy wiggly theory of impossibletounderstand term circumvents the gibbygobbygook theory."

I try to remind myself that I just have to get through 2 years of coursework, which is the area that's currently kicking my butt. I love the research, that isn't scaring me as much, so I try to remind myself that in the end research is what matters. (Yes, I need to get through my classes and pass my exams and comps etc, but at least it's only 2 years of my life, not my career.) I used to always love classes, so it's ironic that now I'm looking forward to them being over with, but frankly they are some of the hardest classes I've ever taken in my life, and they are with super-intelligent classmates (no feeling smart by comparison, I'm afraid).

Oh, and I went to a rigorous, top-25 undergrad, and my current PhD program (not ivy league) is definitely much harder, so don't feel more insecure because of your background. PhD programs are going to be on a whole new level of difficulty.

When I'm down on myself, one of my classmates tells me, "you got into a PhD program, they obviously thought you were smart enough, so believe in yourself too!" Not sure if it will help, but try to tell yourself that, and know that many of us are going through the same doubts and uncertainty. Others had the same self-doubt before, and they made it, so we can too

[strathmore]

Thank you both for the kind replies.. I must clear one thing up, though, and that is that I'm not going for my PhD, just a Masters (thank GOD!). Nonetheless, I do share classes with PhD students from various departments, and most of my cohorts intend on applying to PhD programs afterward. So, it's difficult for me to feign parity with my academia-oriented peers.

Man... I'm starting to procrastinate now, too. It seems like the more reading I have to do, the less I want to even attempt it.

Anyway, I hope my non-PhD-seeking status doesn't diminish the credibility of my original post... I wouldn't want anyone to retract such helpful advice!

[poco_puffs]

Thank you both for the kind replies.. I must clear one thing up, though, and that is that I'm not going for my PhD, just a Masters (thank GOD!). Nonetheless, I do share classes with PhD students from various departments, and most of my cohorts intend on applying to PhD programs afterward. So, it's difficult for me to feign parity with my academia-oriented peers.

Man... I'm starting to procrastinate now, too. It seems like the more reading I have to do, the less I want to even attempt it.

Anyway, I hope my non-PhD-seeking status doesn't diminish the credibility of my original post... I wouldn't want anyone to retract such helpful advice!

Well, I'd argue that it's "gradcafe" and not "PhDcafe," and your concerns are probably common among MA students as well. Something to remember in your situation is that some of those PhD students might have MAs already. We all come from different educational backgrounds, different classes, different professors. There are gaps in everyone's knowledge. That's why your classmates are there, too. Our common goal is to learn and become better academics.

[alexis]

Anyway, I hope my non-PhD-seeking status doesn't diminish the credibility of my original post... I wouldn't want anyone to retract such helpful advice!

Definitely not! Sorry for jumping to that conclusion-- it sounds like you have a tough master's program with a similar level of difficulty to the start of a PhD program. It certainly doesn't diminish any of your concerns or struggles.

[TMP]

Totally get what you mean. I was a MA student in classes full of PhD students. The difference between you and me is that I was using my MA to get into a PhD program.

Still! I also came from a very sociable undergrad to... this. I went to a top 10 grad school where the students were competitive an driven at a whole new level. There were times I felt lazy compared to my PhD friends/classmates. I felt like I wasn't good enough. By the end of my first semester, I had a breakdown. I didn't want to give up though but the anxiety was getting the best of me. I also was taking classes that weren't directly in my area of interests (My MA was interdisciplinary). So I wasn't loving it but just trying to get through. In second semester, I got to take 2 classes directly in my area of interest. One of them was mostly masters and senior undergraduates. The other was a mix of MAs and PhDs. I thought, if I can't rock that second class, at least I could with the first one. Guess what? I rocked both because I knew my shit. I still didn't know everything but it was the fact that I was actually passionate about the course materials that raised my self-confidence. PhD students actually started to pay attention to me. Awesome. It's a hard thing but when you're confident in class, people do notice and you'll be more at ease.

I will agree to above posters to keep your nose in your own life. People talk but they don't walk. A friend said that she's up until 5 AM doing work. I felt lazy, like I said. Then I realized that she had sleep insomnia and that she didn't have her first class until 1 PM so going to bed at 5 AM and waking up at noon seemed reasonable. Question a remark next time someone says that makes you feel awkward/lazy/bad/stupid. Why? I learned just to ignore a lot of things they say to up one and another and just pay attention if they have any related stuff (a conference coming up, an important source, etc). It's lonely in this sense but you, as a result, will feel more sane and sure of yourself. Your mental health is more important than your need to beat other kids.

Realize that a lot of PhD students aren't exactly sociable. You and I have the advantage of having real social skills thanks to our partying schools. I went outside of my department and join a graduate student club on campus where I got to meet people from all across campus at different schools. It was a fun way to relax and have real conversations. Don't worry too much about making friends with your cohort or PhD students- they are there to talk shop and they are your colleagues. Also, it's a good way to take a break from your academic minded peers.

Also, look up "Imposter Syndrome." Everyone has that feeling every now and then, even full ranked professors.

[starmaker]

Do you have a spouse, significant other, nearby best friend, or trusted housemate, that you can vent to?

I'm an MS student planning to go for a PhD when I finish the MS, and for me, the person that I talk to is my husband. When I was an undergrad and didn't have a significant other, I talked to those of my hallmates to whom I was closest (we were allowed to choose our own dorms, so a lot of the people closest to me were people that I lived with), and a few other close friends (particularly alums, who had been there done that). Just having somebody to listen and relate and give you moral support can make a lot of difference.

[strathmore]

Ticklemepink:

I definitely don't feel like I'm good enough, but not due to laziness. I just don't think there is any way in hell that I could be as smart as the people I study alongside.. my MA program is also interdisciplinary, so I'm taking classes from top-ranked departments - and the students obviously mean business! The program I am in is much more obscure, though, and not nearly as competitive as the school's other departments.. so I basically got in through the back door. Anyhow, I have no dreams of beating the other kids.. I can only aspire to keep up at this point...

Starmaker:

Actually, I do live with my significant other. Good source of human interaction, but for some reason, my vents seem to go through one ear and out the other. Oh well.. At least my counselor acknowledges me! :-/

Thanks for the comments

[UnlikelyGrad]

Actually, I do live with my significant other. Good source of human interaction, but for some reason, my vents seem to go through one ear and out the other. Oh well.. At least my counselor acknowledges me! :-/

I've actually found that my husband is NOT the best person to vent to. I've had better luck venting to girlfriends in the past. (I still don't have a friend close enough to serve this function at grad school. Phooey.)

Depression is an integral part of my life. I've blogged about it before (here: http://unlikelygrad.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/depression-and-graduate-school/ and here: http://unlikelygrad.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/depression-and-graduate-school-part-ii/)

Sorry I haven't said more, but I am diving into a depressive episode right now and I get really uncommunicative at times.

[TMP]

Ticklemepink:

I definitely don't feel like I'm good enough, but not due to laziness. I just don't think there is any way in hell that I could be as smart as the people I study alongside.. my MA program is also interdisciplinary, so I'm taking classes from top-ranked departments - and the students obviously mean business! The program I am in is much more obscure, though, and not nearly as competitive as the school's other departments.. so I basically got in through the back door. Anyhow, I have no dreams of beating the other kids.. I can only aspire to keep up at this point...

Here's the secret of graduate school: Remember PhD students, especially first years, know just as much as you do! PhD students (usually third year) who are studying for their comps are obviously going to know more because they're actually studying and reading up materials. They have no choice when they wind up spouting information in class from their comp readings. 1st and 2nd years know as much as you do if not in their super specialized area of interest. Remember you all learn from the same required material but you all bring your own background knowledge. I've had 3rd and 4th year PhD students oogle their eyes at me when I talk about my particular topic in depth because THEY wouldn't know this stuff and they found it absolutely fascinating. So when you have your MA topic together and start talking about it, you'll feel amazing. Start thinking about it. Things do get better as long you keep your nose into your own life and treat others simply as colleagues, not competitors.

Since your MA is interdisciplinary, make the most of your strongest classes. They will undoubtedly be your best classes and where you can shine. Have a good balance between good and bad classes each semester. First semester is always the worst when you're taking required classes and classes you don't really want to take. Once I got the requirements over with, I was much happier.

Also, use the writing center if you need some additional support.

Just remember... everyone came to graduate school with fairly... same basic knowledge but everyone has to keep learning. Otherwise, then what's the point of going to graduate school if you aren't going to learn if you already know everything?

[Katzenmusik]

One good tip I heard was to think of at least one or two interesting things to say in each class. That way you don't end up blabbing endlessly about nothing (my usual prob!) but you also don't seem like a potted plant who never contributes due to intimidation. Just have one or two well-thought out comments--like things that surprised you about the reading, questions you would have for the writer, challenges to the argument, etc.

Good luck to you!

[fuzzylogician]

I definitely don't feel like I'm good enough, but not due to laziness. I just don't think there is any way in hell that I could be as smart as the people I study alongside.

Everybody feels like that from time to time.

EVERYBODY.

I think it's really important to try not to compare yourself to others. There will always be that person who is smarter, faster, seems to have it easier. I am sure that that person is envy of someone else in their life too. It's a vicious never-ending cycle. Some of your peers may already have Masters degree or may simply have more background in certain areas. Others may genuinely be geniuses, though (I think) they are rarer than it seems to many of us. Not being THE BEST should never discourage you from going after your interests, or else you (and I, and most everyone) can just stop right now. Life, and graduate school, is not only about being smart and coming up with insightful comments. It's also about follow-through, and hard work, and interpersonal relationships, and writing skills, etc. All those things count, and hard-working "normal" people can be extremely successful.

You are good enough, or else you wouldn't have been accepted to your program. You're in a new program so it may take you time, but concentrate on finding your stride - that one or two areas that excite you most, and where without a doubt you know more than random other people--especially in an interdisciplinary program. Some required classes will not be your thing, but once you find the one or two that you shine in, all those hard-slash-boring classes will be forgotten. I've learned, and maybe you need to do the same, that it's impossible to meet all of the requirements of grad school. If I actually did all of my readings, I would never go home at all (and I am writing this from my office, at 20 past midnight). It's legitimate to choose the classes you concentrate on more; it's legitimate to not get all of the assigned reading done (I have it on good authority that professors don't actually expect students to do it all); it's even legitimate to choose a class you care about less. I think it's better to do well in some classes and not as well in others -- than to be spread too thinly and do badly in all of the classes. If you're doing research -- that is more important than all of your classes. Prioritize. Also know that other people also did not do everything (for this class or some other, or for their research), it's just impossible. They are all human, and they are *not* better than you. Some people are just better at coming up with those one or two "interesting things to say", as Katzenmusik puts it.

Edited October 19, 2010 by fuzzylogician

[Riotbeard]

First things first, I am sure you are doing fine, even if it doesn't feel like it. One thing about academia and especially research oriented humanities is that you can never do everything. You cannot (and no one can) look under every stone, so trying to is a waste of time. Every week, I take at least one day (or a good chunk of it) to my personal life. Find some connection to the world outside of academia. For me, this is keeping up with college football and going to shows (don't get me started on how hard it is to try and start dating someone in the first semester of my PhD). Grad school is hard definitely, but you don't have to make it harder. Talking in class is a confidence issue. If you got into an Ivy program you have the right stuff, what you need to do is practice contributing in class. Make yourself talk at least five times per meeting, and prepare talking points before you go into class (although don't make it sound like a prepared statement...). Make talking in class an assignment.

The most important thing is that you create space for yourself outside of your work. Also bitching and moaning with other students is a great pass time, so invite a friend out for happy hour and commiserate.

[strathmore]

UnlikelyGrad:

Hang in there! Depression has been a big part of my life, too. I will definitely check out your blog :-)

Ticklemepink:

I am taking a few classes in my strong area - foreign language. Sadly, although I can use my language skills for research, the classes in and of themselves are not very "academic." My "bad" classes, the "academic" ones, only occur two days a week. But what a load of work they are! I wish I knew a way to keep up without spending my entire weekend reading and writing. We can choose to take our required classes at any time, as long as they all add up in the end. My original thought was to get all the hard required classes out of the way this year, so that next year I will be able to calmly write my thesis. But now I'm not so sure that I can handle another semester like this one!

Katzenmusik:

I do try to prepare some comments, though once people start talking, I realize how uninteresting or misguided they actually are! I suppose this is an issue of comprehension. I'm working on it...

Fuzzylogician:

You're right. I know that if I make it through these two years, I will be a significantly improved hard-working normal person (I like that term). I don't know why it is so difficult to not compare myself to others. I suppose I'm also worried that my papers will be graded harshly against the high standards that have been set by my peers.

Luckily, since everyone else plans on going into academia, I won't have to worry about competing with them on the job market ;-). Admittedly, I am still tripped out by the name and status of the university, especially due to my rather humble [academic] beginnings.

Riotbeard:

Baby steps. Just uttering one comment would be a triumph for me at this point! I do actually prepare talking points.. ah, it's a complicated story why it hasn't worked out, but I will keep jotting things down nonetheless.

Thanks again, everyone.

***P.S. Sorry if my lack of quotations makes my responses kind of confusing. I originally tried writing it with all of the quotations and the post was just too massive!

[Nytusse]

Let me just tell you from experience:

A) An Ivy League school wouldn't accept you if they didn't see something great in you

Ivy League students are not necessarily smarter than you...they just speak a different language. You will realize that a large part of the culture is simply figuring out how they make their points. Shortly thereafter, you will also realize that there are plenty of people who can name-drop and use big words, but aren't really saying anything all that intelligent.

Believe me, you will come into your own. Don't let them intimidate you.

[DrFaustus666]

Shortly thereafter, you will also realize that there are plenty of people who can name-drop and use big words, but aren't really saying anything all that intelligent.

Believe me, you will come into your own. Don't let them intimidate you.

Nytusse: Well said!

TickleMePink: My family physician, who went to Yale Medical School, has photos of himself shaking hands with Richard Nixon and George H.W. Bush. AS IF I (one of his patients) WOULD RESPECT HIM MORE FOR THAT!! ! !

To me, an M.D. from a top school has 100 times the prestige of a U.S. President ... but apparently HE doesn't see it that way.

My point is, everybody has self-doubts, and as at least 3 or 4 other posters have said, you wouldn't be where you are if the admissions committees didn't have confidence in you. Just keep plugging, do grant yourself at least one night per week off from studying, and keep your chin up. You'll soon realize that you're just as smart as any, and more smart than a lot!

John

[captiv8ed]

strathmore, maybe I can make you feel better.

I came from a small, nurturing alternative liberal arts college. I am now in the MA portion of a PhD program. My program is not Ivy league, and it is not a top 10 program. Even hanging out here can make me feel like a loser because it seems that EVERYONE here is in a top program (I know this isn't true, but I lead with my inadequacies, and so that is what comes across). Of course, all the professors are from top 10 programs, which somehow makes me feel even worse and also shows me how arbitrary the whole ranking system is.

But anyway, I failed my stats exam this week. Failed it. Nothing looked right or familiar, and I couldn't memorize the formulas. I am in one class that has been so hard I want to cry and yet, so many students are positively fluent in the jargon and methods. A bunch of students in there are further along and are planning to take their qualifying exam in the subject. I wrote an essay for the class, which many people liked and the instructor told me in some ways it was fine, but I missed the whole concept of the question! She assured me that I should ask her questions if I have trouble, but I had no idea that I was missing the point! So yes, it is a very very rough first semester. Most students in my cohort either have a BA in our field or have an MA. And so they are all somewhat conversant.

However, I have my thesis topic nailed down and have a committee. I already have ideas for my diss, and I am treating the classes as a learning environment. This is stuff I need to know and I don't know yet. I have a high learning curve, but I am going to do it. Even if I end up having to repeat a course, I don't care. The point is the degree and the knowledge that comes with it. I am not going to compare myself with anyone else (or at least that is what I keep telling myself).

Good luck and I know how much it sucks!!

[StrangeLight]

i'm usually good in seminars. i manage to read every word on every page for 2-3 books every week, with a few weeks where i skim 2 chapters. i talk a lot (maybe too much) and i usually have the answers the professor is looking for.

and i just got a D+ on my undergraduate french midterm. i have lunch with spanish speakers to improve my skills and i never say more than 1 or 2 broken sentences. they all know the reason i'm not talking isn't because i'm shy or have nothing to say, it's because i suck at spanish. this is after 3 years of formal spanish instruction in college and spending two months in central america. i take classes with some readings in spanish and i can understand them easily enough, but i just cannot think or speak in a foreign language. i suck at it, really, really badly. my spanish reading is quite good, my writing is intelligible, and my speaking is non-existent. which is a very bad thing, because my advisor has now determined that my dissertation project will require oral history (conducted in spanish, of course). so over the next year and a half, i need to get really good at this, and it's a nagging problem that will continue to stress me out. a lot.

i wish i was as good at languages as you are. and i feel like a moron when i see other people who aren't native speakers but have a near-native command of the language. i guarantee whoever you're sitting next to in your classes sucks at something. maybe they're great in class but their research is uninspired. maybe they can't write very well. maybe they're going to really struggle with their comps. maybe they're going to fail their foreign language translation exams. or maybe they're totally socially inept, which will hurt them in the long run in academia.

Edited October 24, 2010 by StrangeLight

[poco_puffs]

i wish i was as good at languages as you are. and i feel like a moron when i see other people who aren't native speakers but have a near-native command of the language. i guarantee whoever you're sitting next to in your classes sucks at something. maybe they're great in class but their research is uninspired. maybe they can't write very well. maybe they're going to really struggle with their comps. maybe they're going to fail their foreign language translation exams. or maybe they're totally socially inept, which will hurt them in the long run in academia.

This is my survival method as well. I'm still incredibly friendly with my cohort, but when it comes to making myself feel better on a rainy day of self-doubt, I hold with the fact that I'm particularly good at one or two things that I know for a fact other people struggle with. You just can't let it affect how you treat them in person-- this is stuff to keep private in your head.

[abacus123]

Greetings,

This is my first semester of grad school. Briefly - I went straight from a big, party-loving state school to an Ivy League. My undergrad experience left me totally unprepared for the "real world" of academia.

Not a day goes by without me feeling like an idiot. I can't participate in class discussions for the life of me, the reading load is ridiculous, and I spend my entire weekend indoors studying. Last week, I attempted to discuss some of these concerns with my professor, and I ended up having a bona fide panic attack in his office! Up until that point, I didn't realize the extent of my anxiety.

I have serious doubts that I am even mentally capable of doing some of my assignments. To top it off, I have one class that is mixed with undergrads who consistently make me look like an ignoramus in my own research area!

Has anyone else here experienced this level of self-doubt? If so, did you manage to overcome it, and how? Where did you find support? (For the record, I do see a counselor and take meds.)

Thanks!

Well, I went the other way. I did my undergrad at an ivy and went to a big, party-loving state school for my graduate work. It had less to do with the environment and more to do with the funding.

As a new grad student, it's hard not to feel dumb. But you're in grad school, working with people who have at least as much experience in the general field as you do, and often much more experience with specialized subsets of the field. You're there to learn and to develop research skills to be a professional in your field. It doesn't happen overnight, but I think you'll find that with advancement through your courses you'll find yourself able to hold your own in discussion. If the program didn't think you had potential to be great in your field, they wouldn't have taken you.

Also, while you should focus on your work and all, sometimes it's good to just take a night off. A breather can give you much needed time to compose your thoughts and make you feel better.

[KrissyJ]

Also, look up "Imposter Syndrome." Everyone has that feeling every now and then, even full ranked professors.

This. Also I'd suggest reading the Dunning-Kruger effect . The more you are exposed to complexity, the more you realize how much information is really out there, and the more your mind can find it intimidating which may lead to feelings of inferiority. It's not a feeling that is justified though. Because whether you study the material or not, the information would still exist apart from you. So if you start by understanding one small part of it, you'll be better off because of it.