Snarky Professors....... How long to put up with them?

[switch]

The department chair was snarking at a lot of faculty who have less power or who are influential but weren't in the room during the snark attack. Example: He says that this Ivy professor is one of his friends then he proceeds to snark about the placement record of that Ivy department (completely false snark since they have a much better placement record than his department) and he snarks about that particular professor's research area. But he says she's his friend....... With friends like this who needs enemies?

He snarks about assistant faculty who don't have tenure, graduate students who are scared to death of him, retired faculty who are dead wood according to him. He snarks about anyone and anything that is powerless, less powerful than him, or likely never to find out about his snark.

A lot of the snark is false and self-serving. Like saying his department has better graduate placement than that Ivy department. But he's department chair and all of the grad students in this class are scared to death of him. I am also in this class.

Can I do anything to call him out? Stop the snark? Stop the lies and deceit within the snark? Can I tell him he's a snarky person?

I am supposed to audit the class of the Ivy professor he snarked about. Can I ask him whether I can relay his snark to her?

[Xanthan]

Q: How long to put up with snarky professors?

A: Until you get tenure.

[Strangefox]

Yes, when you are tenured, you come to him and say: "Professor X, I have always wanted to tell you - you are a snarky person!"

By the way, what does "to snark" exactly mean?? I didn't find it in my dictionary....

[switch]

Yes, when you are tenured, you come to him and say: "Professor X, I have always wanted to tell you - you are a snarky person!"

By the way, what does "to snark" exactly mean?? I didn't find it in my dictionary....

If you don't understand the key term in this hypothetical, then why are you answering my question? Sharing your ignorance is less valuable than you think.

It is sad that students are so pre-professional that when they hear of dishonesty and bullying in academia their response is to look the other way. This is why Enron and the financial crisis happened. The people who knew something was wrong did nothing.

[switch]

Q: How long to put up with snarky professors?

A: Until you get tenure.

This is why Bernard Madoff ripped off so many people, why there was a financial crisis, why there was Enron. It was "smart" to ignore the lies, duplicity, dishonesty, fraud, manipulation, bullying to keep your job. There is so much fraud and dishonesty in these professions because people like you think it's "sophisticated" to keep quiet when you see clear fraud and bullying.

[Xanthan]

If you don't understand the key term in this hypothetical, then why are you answering my question? Sharing your ignorance is less valuable than you think.

Physician, heal thyself.

[awvish]

Switch, without advocating 'look the other way' approaches to unadmirable behavior, I think you'll find you won't have a lot of success trying to teach manners to someone who already clearly gets off on abusing his power. Are you morally in the right to wish to do so? Of course. Is it reprehensible to abuse power in such ways? Certainly. Is there anything you can realistically do without becoming a martyr to your cause? Of that I am not certain at all.

If what you feel is necessary to stay true to your own code of ethical conduct (everyone has one, they all differ) is to launch some sort of attack (direct, indirect, obvious, anonymous, etc), then you're the only one who can decide what to do and how to do it. Perhaps it's cowardly to not engage, and maybe it's a copout to say 'choose your battles', but I think that's what Xanthan was saying (Xanthan, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

Strangefox, I think 'snark' in this case is to vitriolically and at least semi-baselessly attack another's views, work, lifestyle, etc. I think it's also usually sarcastic and has an element of straw-man to it. I think it also connotes to some degree that those attacked are bystanders (or at least that the attack is unreasonable, but I guess I already said that).

Incidentally, in economic circles there theoretically exist varied checks and balances that are supposed to limit damage and skullduggery, but those seem to only exist in academia for written assertions (i.e. peer-reviewed things) or newbies (junior faculty have to watch their step). The relative invincibility conferred by tenure (or vast amounts of wealth) are indeed infuriating, the system is broken, many people have sold out, it all sucks, I'm right there with you.

But I don't think it's really appropriate to blame Enron on Xanthan and Strangefox.

Edited May 2, 2011 by awvish

[switch]

Switch, without advocating 'look the other way' approaches to unadmirable behavior, I think you'll find you won't have a lot of success trying to teach manners to someone who already clearly gets off on abusing his power. Are you morally in the right to wish to do so? Of course. Is it reprehensible to abuse power in such ways? Certainly. Is there anything you can realistically do without becoming a martyr to your cause? Of that I am not certain at all.

If what you feel is necessary to stay true to your own code of ethical conduct (everyone has one, they all differ) is to launch some sort of attack (direct, indirect, obvious, anonymous, etc), then you're the only one who can decide what to do and how to do it. Perhaps it's cowardly to not engage, and maybe it's a copout to say 'choose your battles', but I think that's what Xanthan was saying (Xanthan, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

Strangefox, I think 'snark' in this case is to vitriolically and at least semi-baselessly attack another's views, work, lifestyle, etc. I think it's also usually sarcastic and has an element of straw-man to it. I think it also connotes to some degree that those attacked are bystanders (or at least that the attack is unreasonable, but I guess I already said that).

Incidentally, while in economic circles there theoretically exist varied checks and balances that are supposed to limit damage and skullduggery, but that those seem to only exist in academia for written assertions (i.e. peer-reviewed things) or newbies (junior faculty have to watch their step). The relative invincibility conferred by tenure (or vast amounts of wealth) are indeed infuriating, the system is broken, many people have sold out, it all sucks, I'm right there with you.

But I don't think it's really appropriate to blame Enron on Xanthan and Strangefox.

The employees at Enron were small cogs with limited responsibilities in a larger machine. Same thing with the people working for mortgage lenders. Many of them stood to gain nothing but honesty by telling their employers the truth about what was going on in their businesses. They would have lost their jobs. And the Enron crisis and the financial mortgage crisis would not have been prevented. People still would have been hurt and lost significant savings in both places. But lying just to save your own job is pretty small. Sometimes snark is just hurt feelings but sometimes it is fraud and dishonesty. When more people refused to put self-interest before telling the truth then the fraud and dishonesty will be mitigated and lessened. Enron wasn't just the one big guy who went to jail. It was all of the smaller employees who signed off on documents that didn't look right then cashed their paycheck.

[hejduk]

If you don't understand the key term in this hypothetical, then why are you answering my question? Sharing your ignorance is less valuable than you think.

Calm down the dissing of others. Not cool at all.

[beanbagchairs]

Yes, when you are tenured, you come to him and say: "Professor X, I have always wanted to tell you - you are a snarky person!"

By the way, what does "to snark" exactly mean?? I didn't find it in my dictionary....

snarky is somewhat being sarcastic, irritating, or cranky

[qbtacoma]

If you don't understand the key term in this hypothetical, then why are you answering my question? Sharing your ignorance is less valuable than you think.

It is sad that students are so pre-professional that when they hear of dishonesty and bullying in academia their response is to look the other way. This is why Enron and the financial crisis happened. The people who knew something was wrong did nothing.

Though the Grad Cafe is quite US-centric, not everybody here comes from the same culture and therefore not everyone knows the same slang. But I suppose you were ignorant of that - bless your heart.

[PsyK]

Snarky Grad Cafers..... how long to put up with them?

Ironically, you condemn snarkiness, and then you employ it in your own responses here.

[hejduk]

It's not the first time "Switch" has done it. Personally, I think he should be banned.

[Mal83]

It's not the first time "Switch" has done it. Personally, I think he should be banned.

Indeed..."The James Franco is Pissing Me Off" thread..

@Switch, not sure even why you posed the question in the first place considering your unwavering morality. You know the answer. Shouldn't you have already ratted out the "snarky" professor long ago? I mean with the first hint of snark you should have gone and told someone in order to completely clear yourself of responsibility and If you haven't, doesn't that mean you are enabling him? I should say so. When you do...if you do...that's when you get to stand tall on your soap box, not before.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Mal83

[qbtacoma]

Indeed..."The James Franco is Pissing Me Off" thread..

@Switch, not sure even why you posed the question in the first place considering your unwavering morality. You know the answer. Shouldn't you have already ratted out the "snarky" professor long ago? I mean with the first hint of snark you should have gone and told someone in order to completely clear yourself of responsibility and If you haven't, doesn't that mean you are enabling him? I should say so. When you do...if you do...that's when you get to stand tall on your soap box, not before.

I, too, have a strong desire to advise switch to just let it all out. In fact, you should interrupt your seminar to let this professor know in no uncertain terms what you think. I'm pretty sure that will deeply impress everyone around you with your moral uprightness. Don't forget to come back and tell us how it went!

[awvish]

C'mon guys. Let's not just devolve into a mob.

It was inappropriate, but even though it's still on the board, it's over.

Let's move on?

[hejduk]

C'mon guys. Let's not just devolve into a mob.

It was inappropriate, but even though it's still on the board, it's over.

Let's move on?

I think the point I was trying to make is that the Moderators need allow a way to report "snarky" users and block their IP. There is no way to report a user, that I'm aware of, but I would gladly do so that others do not feel afraid to post because they'll potentially get "jumped" by someone else.

[rising_star]

I think the point I was trying to make is that the Moderators need allow a way to report "snarky" users and block their IP. There is no way to report a user, that I'm aware of, but I would gladly do so that others do not feel afraid to post because they'll potentially get "jumped" by someone else.

You can and should report posts where a user is being rude or piling on to someone else.

[awvish]

I think the point I was trying to make is that the Moderators need allow a way to report "snarky" users and block their IP. There is no way to report a user, that I'm aware of, but I would gladly do so that others do not feel afraid to post because they'll potentially get "jumped" by someone else.

Sorry, and yes, I completely agree. I didn't mean to come across as condemnatory with my earlier post, I was just trying to pour some oil on the waters.

You can and should report posts where a user is being rude or piling on to someone else.

Now I know what that little button is for--I didn't quite understand before. So if we click it, then it goes to the Mods and you guys look at it and see what if anything is wrong and take action? That's sorta neat....

[hejduk]

You can and should report posts where a user is being rude or piling on to someone else.

Great! I will definitely do this as needed, without being a tattle-tale. You all rock; keep it up!

And to Awvish, no issues! We're on the same page!

Edited May 5, 2011 by hejduk

[Mal83]

C'mon guys. Let's not just devolve into a mob.

It was inappropriate, but even though it's still on the board, it's over.

Let's move on?

I do believe in moving on but only after you've said your piece, it's only fair, if a user gets to post something ridiculous, I should be able to respond how I see fit in order to get my point across. When someone in an open forum casts unfair and unnecessarily harsh judgments at anyone and everyone who chooses to respond to the thread he himself started then he should be told to take it down a notch or 12. Just my take on internet forum etiquette.

[wtncffts]

I find it hilarious that switch exploded at a posters' not knowing what 'snark' means and then proceeds to go off on something about Enron, Bernie Madoff, blah blah, which has absolutely nothing to do with snark.

EDIT: and on the original issue, is this during class? If it is, I don't see why you couldn't politely insist that the class should be focusing on course material. Personally, I don't mind getting to hear profs' unfiltered thoughts about the department, discipline, etc., but not when we're supposed to be covering material.

Edited May 5, 2011 by wtncffts

[InquilineKea]

If he attacked everyone, how did people even allow him to become department chair?

[Mal83]

If he attacked everyone, how did people even allow him to become department chair?

we don't know the whole story obviously and probably never will since the original poster has abandoned the thread...and for good reason, I mean seriously.