The 'Am I competitive' thread - READ ME BEFORE POSTING

[WIExpat]

Hi - also new to this forum, so just let me know if this isn't the place to post this. I'm looking at some IR programs like SAIS, Tufts, etc. and was curious to gauge my competitiveness generally.

Undergraduate institution: Large state school - top 50 in the U.S.
Undergraduate GPA: 3.65
Undergraduate Major: Majors in Journalism (Strategic Comms) and English; Minors in Digital Studies and European Studies
GRE Quantitative Score: 158
GRE Verbal Score: 164
GRE AW Score: 5.0
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 3.5 
Years of Work Experience: 3
Describe Relevant Work Experience: After graduating, I did an internship in Congress, where I focused mostly on press work. Since then, I've worked at a couple different D.C. public affairs firms with clients in a wide range of sectors, including some in international trade and others international companies (with demonstrated growth within those roles). I also had some decent undergrad internship experience, doing a Virtual Foreign Service internship through the State Dept. and interning at a state lobbying firm.
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Still in the process, but have historically been a strong writer (did a bit of reporting/student travel magazine feature writing in college as well)
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): Fairly strong - one professional from one of the firms where I've worked, and another from a well-respected professor with experience teaching at top U.S. IR programs (now working in Europe as a department head)
Other: I also did a semester abroad in undergrad, where I did some volunteering in local schools. My undergrad wasn't super quant heavy, but I did receive college credit for both intro to micro & intro to macro through International Baccalaureate. A big part of the appeal of IR programs is the greater exposure to Econ so I can develop those skills further.

Edited August 18, 2020 by WIExpat

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, WIExpat said:

Hi - also new to this forum, so just let me know if this isn't the place to post this. I'm looking at some IR programs like SAIS, Tufts, etc. and was curious to gauge my competitiveness generally.

Undergraduate institution: Large state school - top 50 in the U.S.
Undergraduate GPA: 3.65
Undergraduate Major: Majors in Journalism (Strategic Comms) and English; Minors in Digital Studies and European Studies
GRE Quantitative Score: 158
GRE Verbal Score: 164
GRE AW Score: 5.0
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 3.5 
Years of Work Experience: 3
Describe Relevant Work Experience: After graduating, I did an internship in Congress, where I focused mostly on press work. Since then, I've worked at a couple different D.C. public affairs firms with clients in a wide range of sectors, including some in international trade and others international companies (with demonstrated growth within those roles). I also had some decent undergrad internship experience, doing a Virtual Foreign Service internship through the State Dept. and interning at a state lobbying firm.
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Still in the process, but have historically been a strong writer (did a bit of reporting/student travel magazine feature writing in college as well)
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): Fairly strong - one professional from one of the firms where I've worked, and another from a well-respected professor with experience teaching at top U.S. IR programs (now working in Europe as a department head)
Other: I also did a semester abroad in undergrad, where I did some volunteering in local schools. My undergrad wasn't super quant heavy, but I did receive college credit for both intro to micro & intro to macro through International Baccalaureate. A big part of the appeal of IR programs is the greater exposure to Econ so I can develop those skills further.

My thoughts:

1. I think you are competitive for less quant heavy programs (then again, in. the era of COVID, it is hard to tell if there will be a grad school application rush or a struggler's to get enough applicants for IR). For these programs - MSFS, Fletcher, SIPA... Out of four tiers (Top Pick, Highly Qualified, Able to Graduate, and Waitlist), you are probably between the low end of Tier 2 to middle of Tier 3ish during Pre-COVID times. 

2. I strongly recommend you not apply to Johns Hopkins SAIS given your lack of background or interest in Quant. That program is huge on calc based econometrics.

3. I also strongly recommend you don't go to Fletcher Tufts... Great student experience, but for lots of reasons we can get into, I view the school as being increasingly challenged by shifts in higher education + IR.

4. I think SIPA, Georgetown Walsh, and GW Elliot are probably top picks for you... I also recommend you go one down just in case applications go crazy and you need a back up. 

[insertnicksname]

Hi! Am new to this forum after lurking in the pages and also on GMAT Club. 

Degree: either MPA/MPP or MS Sustainability
Programs applying to: Columbia SIPA (Dream/reach), Columbia Sustainability Management, Lee Kuan Yew (Singapore), Fletcher (still thinking about it), any more suggestions? 
Nationality: Philippines
Undergraduate institution: Top university (Philippines)
Undergraduate GPA: 3.04 (cumulative) then I guess in the 3.4 for majors
Undergraduate Major: Management
GRE/GMAT: taking GMAT this September, if tests turn out low might shift to GRE. Was applying to business school before this. 
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 7 
Years of Work Experience: 7
Describe Relevant Work Experience: After graduating, I worked for the government for 2 years, then 5 years for public-private partnerships firm focused on water. Been promoted a couple of times. 
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Still in the process, I have an idea of what to write but looking 
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): Fairly strong but mostly professional. Reluctant to get an academic reference
Other: Did a semester abroad in undergrad. Trying to not get into too much quant in the program. 
Goal: Work in the World Bank, ADB, AIIB or UN or a consulting role in a public sector practice. I want to focus on public policy, public-private partnerships and sustainability still. 

[GradSchoolGrad]

Your undergraduate GPA is relatively low. Granted you do have work experience, unless you have really good GRE scores, Higher level programs (including Fletcher) may be out of reach for you (at least Pre-COVID).

You also might want to do a reality check on if you want to work at the IGOs like the World Bank and UN. They are relatively low pay, not great progression, and vary greatly in terms of workplace experience.

[gvx630]

Applying to: MPP or IR @ Sciences Po, Oxford, LSE, SAIS, Tsinghua
Nationality: Greek, Albanian (Second-generation immigrant)
Undergraduate institution: Top Greek University
Undergraduate GPA: 3.8/4.0
Undergraduate Major: International Relations 
Languages Skills: Greek, English, French
Relevant Work Experience: Intern at Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Human Rights), Intern at top Greek think-tank (EU Affairs), Intern at Hungarian University (Cold War Studies)
Publications: Authored three papers on technology and global affairs; one of them published by the Foreign Affairs Magazine (Greek Edition)
Awards: Airbnb Scholarship: Three week research project in Estonia (Digital Policy)
Council of Europe Scholarship: Attended a Seminar/Consultation on Artificial Intelligence (All Paid)
Club de Madrid Scholarship: Attended a Leadership Workshop in Malta (All Paid) 
Strength of SOP: Strong focus on technology and policy. Clearly articulating my aspirations of becoming a policy-maker.
Strength of LOR: Two strong academic letters; one of them from a fairly successful professor. One professional letter from a top Greek political scientist (not so strong though).
Other: Director at Debate Club, Vice-President at MUN Club, Team Leader at Student NGO (Youth Unemployment), Global Shapers Community Member.
 

 

[WIExpat]

On 8/18/2020 at 4:00 PM, GradSchoolGrad said:

My thoughts:

1. I think you are competitive for less quant heavy programs (then again, in. the era of COVID, it is hard to tell if there will be a grad school application rush or a struggler's to get enough applicants for IR). For these programs - MSFS, Fletcher, SIPA... Out of four tiers (Top Pick, Highly Qualified, Able to Graduate, and Waitlist), you are probably between the low end of Tier 2 to middle of Tier 3ish during Pre-COVID times. 

2. I strongly recommend you not apply to Johns Hopkins SAIS given your lack of background or interest in Quant. That program is huge on calc based econometrics.

3. I also strongly recommend you don't go to Fletcher Tufts... Great student experience, but for lots of reasons we can get into, I view the school as being increasingly challenged by shifts in higher education + IR.

4. I think SIPA, Georgetown Walsh, and GW Elliot are probably top picks for you... I also recommend you go one down just in case applications go crazy and you need a back up. 

Gotcha - thank you for the perspective! It's much appreciated.

[tshirt]

Hi! Been a lurker forever and would love thoughts and feedback. 

Program Applying To: MPP and MSc programs, one MPA

Schools Applying To: Harvard Kennedy MPP (the dream, ugh); Berkeley Goldman MPP (also a dream); Georgetown McCourt MPP; GWU Tratchenberg MPP; UVA Batten MPP; Brown Watson MPA; LSE MSc in Politics and Communications, UCL MSc in Gender, Society and Representation; King's College London MSc in International Political Economy; SOAS MSc in Labour, Activism and Development. Might add on some additional MPP programs. 

Undergraduate institution: Top 50 city school in DC
Undergraduate GPA: 3.29. Major GPAs were 3.74 and 3.63. Last 60 hours was ~3.6, if you add my study abroad courses (which I think I need to for UK schools?), it's a 3.31.
Undergraduate Major: Double major in International Affairs and Political Science
GRE Quantitative Score: Expecting 161-164 range
GRE Verbal Score: Expecting 160-162 range
GRE AW Score: unknown yet! Test is scheduled for Sept 22nd

Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 4
Years of Work Experience: 4
Describe Relevant Work Experience: Two and a half years at a well-known advocacy consulting firm w ties to HKS, staffer on a presidential campaign, policy writing fellowship program, experience on other campaigns (including management).   
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Still working on it, but I am very confident in my writing skills. I think I will be able to tie in my personal story, professional background, and future goals well together. 
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): Strong recommendations from a major school board president that I develop policy for, and a CEO of my former company w/ ties to HKS. 1 academic letter which will probably be good-ish. 
Other: Was dealing with some family and health issues freshman year of college, hence why my GPA is not great. I'm thinking about writing a supplementary letter about it? Also on quant experience, I took Intro to Statistics, Research Methods, Microeconomics, and International Economics in college.

Would love general thoughts on my school list given my GPA, as well as quant experience. Any takeaways or things I can do to set myself up for success would be great.

[GradSchoolGrad]

7 hours ago, tshirt said:

Hi! Been a lurker forever and would love thoughts and feedback. 

Program Applying To: MPP and MSc programs, one MPA

Schools Applying To: Harvard Kennedy MPP (the dream, ugh); Berkeley Goldman MPP (also a dream); Georgetown McCourt MPP; GWU Tratchenberg MPP; UVA Batten MPP; Brown Watson MPA; LSE MSc in Politics and Communications, UCL MSc in Gender, Society and Representation; King's College London MSc in International Political Economy; SOAS MSc in Labour, Activism and Development. Might add on some additional MPP programs. 

Undergraduate institution: Top 50 city school in DC
Undergraduate GPA: 3.29. Major GPAs were 3.74 and 3.63. Last 60 hours was ~3.6, if you add my study abroad courses (which I think I need to for UK schools?), it's a 3.31.
Undergraduate Major: Double major in International Affairs and Political Science
GRE Quantitative Score: Expecting 161-164 range
GRE Verbal Score: Expecting 160-162 range
GRE AW Score: unknown yet! Test is scheduled for Sept 22nd

Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 4
Years of Work Experience: 4
Describe Relevant Work Experience: Two and a half years at a well-known advocacy consulting firm w ties to HKS, staffer on a presidential campaign, policy writing fellowship program, experience on other campaigns (including management).   
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Still working on it, but I am very confident in my writing skills. I think I will be able to tie in my personal story, professional background, and future goals well together. 
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): Strong recommendations from a major school board president that I develop policy for, and a CEO of my former company w/ ties to HKS. 1 academic letter which will probably be good-ish. 
Other: Was dealing with some family and health issues freshman year of college, hence why my GPA is not great. I'm thinking about writing a supplementary letter about it? Also on quant experience, I took Intro to Statistics, Research Methods, Microeconomics, and International Economics in college.

Would love general thoughts on my school list given my GPA, as well as quant experience. Any takeaways or things I can do to set myself up for success would be great.

So I want to start off with this note - no one has any idea how competitive or not competitive US MPP programs will be this application cycle because you have 4 unknowns:

1. Will applications surge due to the bad economy? - traditionally yes, but there is an aversion towards students debt

2. Will those who deferred seek to return to school? - traditionally yes, but who knows if there are still COVID concerns

3. Will there be a massive drop of international students? - my bet is that it depends on who wins the election. If Trump wins, international student numbers might drop like a rock

4. Will there be a surge of interest in public policy or are people disillusioned with public policy being a solution? Traditionally people get inspired to go policy school when there are major high attention grabbing social problems going on... but I don't know if Americans are becoming increasingly disillusioned of policy as a solution....

That being said, I'll give you a shake based upon pre-COVID conditions.

Major information gaps:

1. Top 50 city school in DC? What he heck does that mean? Top 50 school located in DC? - that would be an alternative way to say GWU.

2. What are you trying to do with a policy degree? I ask because schools look for diversity by type (generally speaking). 

3. What your actual GRE scores are. Assuming doesn't get you too far... so I'm just not going to consider that for now. 

By school...

a. Harvard MPP - I think your biggest limiting factor is how weak your quant portfolio is. By that I mean, you have no indication of having ever taken any semblance of econometrics or calculus 

b. Berkeley Goldman MPP - I'll defer to someone else since I honestly don't know the school's admissions that well. I will say from a career perspective, it makes sense if you want to go there to go West Coast, but doesn't make sense if you want to return to DC or go East Coast from a networking and career opportunity perspective.

c. Georgetown McCourt - I think you can get in. A big question is if you'll get scholarship or not because I don't have a sense of your undergrad school. I say this because Georgetown likes to scholarship people with big undergrad brands (as long as their academic performance was good enough to get in) or super interesting work experience, even if their academics were less than stellar. For example, even though our 2 Harvard undergrad folks had rather uninteresting work history + extracurriculars, they both got some of the higher end scholarships. Those who came from less name brand schools did get scholarships is they had extensive work experience. Your's is interesting, but maybe not extensive enough. I know people who got scholarships with nearly 3.0 GPAs with interesting 4 years work experience but went to a name brand name liberal arts school. 

That being said, if you are interested in politics, McCourt is not the place for you unless you want to leverage the Georgetown brand to work on Capital Hill while going to school. The GU Politics is really fur undergrads. It is really for people who want to chase after data analytics roles. Also, if you care about making real social impact or discussing political viewpoints/ideas this is not the place for you. McCourt is culturally about show and tell rather than making a difference or having an academic curiosity. 

d. GW - Trachtenburg - same, I think you can get in... not that familiar with how they do scholarships though. 

e. UVA - Batten - I think you can get in - again not familiar with them about scholarship. Batten is an interesting school. I'm really a big fan of how they emphasize ethical leadership + quant in one + have a really strong student community.

f. Watson MPA - just don't do it. Its like Stanford MPP... great University, not so great program... as much advertising they might add to it.

g. All the MScs in the UK - I'm really confused why you want to do those. Those are not exactly comparable professional terminal degrees. Generally speaking the people seeking them are straight from undergrad. If seek to come back to the US, I don't think they'll have that much brand value for you.

What you should consider - what are you career goals coming out of an MPP - that can help determine what school you go to.

Schools you should also be considering:

1. Sanford - Duke

2. University of Maryland - strong safety school for you in my opinion. 

3. UNC Chapel Hill MPP - also a good safety

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[mp1410]

deleted because I wrote in the wrong thread ?

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by mp1410

[tshirt]

10 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

So I want to start off with this note - no one has any idea how competitive or not competitive US MPP programs will be this application cycle because you have 4 unknowns:

1. Will applications surge due to the bad economy? - traditionally yes, but there is an aversion towards students debt

2. Will those who deferred seek to return to school? - traditionally yes, but who knows if there are still COVID concerns

3. Will there be a massive drop of international students? - my bet is that it depends on who wins the election. If Trump wins, international student numbers might drop like a rock

4. Will there be a surge of interest in public policy or are people disillusioned with public policy being a solution? Traditionally people get inspired to go policy school when there are major high attention grabbing social problems going on... but I don't know if Americans are becoming increasingly disillusioned of policy as a solution....

That being said, I'll give you a shake based upon pre-COVID conditions.

Major information gaps:

1. Top 50 city school in DC? What he heck does that mean? Top 50 school located in DC? - that would be an alternative way to say GWU.

2. What are you trying to do with a policy degree? I ask because schools look for diversity by type (generally speaking). 

3. What your actual GRE scores are. Assuming doesn't get you too far... so I'm just not going to consider that for now. 

By school...

a. Harvard MPP - I think your biggest limiting factor is how weak your quant portfolio is. By that I mean, you have no indication of having ever taken any semblance of econometrics or calculus 

b. Berkeley Goldman MPP - I'll defer to someone else since I honestly don't know the school's admissions that well. I will say from a career perspective, it makes sense if you want to go there to go West Coast, but doesn't make sense if you want to return to DC or go East Coast from a networking and career opportunity perspective.

c. Georgetown McCourt - I think you can get in. A big question is if you'll get scholarship or not because I don't have a sense of your undergrad school. I say this because Georgetown likes to scholarship people with big undergrad brands (as long as their academic performance was good enough to get in) or super interesting work experience, even if their academics were less than stellar. For example, even though our 2 Harvard undergrad folks had rather uninteresting work history + extracurriculars, they both got some of the higher end scholarships. Those who came from less name brand schools did get scholarships is they had extensive work experience. Your's is interesting, but maybe not extensive enough. I know people who got scholarships with nearly 3.0 GPAs with interesting 4 years work experience but went to a name brand name liberal arts school. 

That being said, if you are interested in politics, McCourt is not the place for you unless you want to leverage the Georgetown brand to work on Capital Hill while going to school. The GU Politics is really fur undergrads. It is really for people who want to chase after data analytics roles. Also, if you care about making real social impact or discussing political viewpoints/ideas this is not the place for you. McCourt is culturally about show and tell rather than making a difference or having an academic curiosity. 

d. GW - Trachtenburg - same, I think you can get in... not that familiar with how they do scholarships though. 

e. UVA - Batten - I think you can get in - again not familiar with them about scholarship. Batten is an interesting school. I'm really a big fan of how they emphasize ethical leadership + quant in one + have a really strong student community.

f. Watson MPA - just don't do it. Its like Stanford MPP... great University, not so great program... as much advertising they might add to it.

g. All the MScs in the UK - I'm really confused why you want to do those. Those are not exactly comparable professional terminal degrees. Generally speaking the people seeking them are straight from undergrad. If seek to come back to the US, I don't think they'll have that much brand value for you.

What you should consider - what are you career goals coming out of an MPP - that can help determine what school you go to.

Schools you should also be considering:

1. Sanford - Duke

2. University of Maryland - strong safety school for you in my opinion. 

3. UNC Chapel Hill MPP - also a good safety

 

 

Thank you so much for your feedback  Yep, I was trying to say GWU in a more discrete way but you caught me, ha!

The MSc programs are more of a backup for me to keep the door open to graduate school generally. Without boring you too much with details, I'm looking to work pivot into more issue-based advocacy (particularly in the health care field), and hopefully serve in a policy role, where pretty much everyone has a graduate degree at senior levels. I think MPP is the right program, but I want to keep my options open and the MSc applications are fairly simple, and I have family in London.

You're right I don't have GRE scores yet! I am taking it in a few weeks and all my practice tests have been in the low 160s for each section. So I don't necessarily want to bank on it, but wanted to provide that context. 

This was super helpful context -- I'm curious what your thoughts are about me taking a Quant course this fall. I believe I can still sign up for one at GWU (or my hometown community college), but are there other institutions/courses you would consider? I don't have a calc background so that makes it a challenge. 

Thanks again -- and will look into the additional schools!

[GradSchoolGrad]

2 hours ago, tshirt said:

Thank you so much for your feedback  Yep, I was trying to say GWU in a more discrete way but you caught me, ha!

The MSc programs are more of a backup for me to keep the door open to graduate school generally. Without boring you too much with details, I'm looking to work pivot into more issue-based advocacy (particularly in the health care field), and hopefully serve in a policy role, where pretty much everyone has a graduate degree at senior levels. I think MPP is the right program, but I want to keep my options open and the MSc applications are fairly simple, and I have family in London.

You're right I don't have GRE scores yet! I am taking it in a few weeks and all my practice tests have been in the low 160s for each section. So I don't necessarily want to bank on it, but wanted to provide that context. 

This was super helpful context -- I'm curious what your thoughts are about me taking a Quant course this fall. I believe I can still sign up for one at GWU (or my hometown community college), but are there other institutions/courses you would consider? I don't have a calc background so that makes it a challenge. 

Thanks again -- and will look into the additional schools!

1. So first off... those MSc programs (which are all over the place), really don't do much for your career unless you just want to chill for a year. Also, given how your programs are over the place, you might end having to explain your grad school choice if you end up seeking jobs that are drastically different.

2. The only Quant class that would help you would be if they involved Calc or Econometrics... I did some low level econometrics before I started grad school, but I had to drop my intermediate econometrics class just because I had a hard time learning it online. I did have a full time job at the same time though. My recommendation is to go with what you got. I did it online via Colorado State - good enough school and relatively lower prices.

3. In terms of grad schools, if you really want to do health area (which interestingly, from what I saw has relatively slack interest despite high job demand), I think you should expand you horizon to MBA (health focused) and MPH in addition to MPP/MPA. MBA especially will help you acquire management positions later in life since it is assumed you appreciate financial management.

Advocacy groups generally require a graduate degree in order to promote or be hired onto VP level and above. I met a 40 something grad student once with a Harvard degree who told me that he was only doing it in order to be promoted at his advocacy firm, since his not having a grad degree denied him a promotion. 

That being said, if you go the MBA route, Vanderbilt is the best Health focused one, and GWU is good to.

MPHs vary greatly on the level of quant required, so you should check school by school. GWU does have a good program though. I see MPHs compete with MPPs/MPAs for jobs regularly, especially in the advocacy space.

Not that many people go to advocacy from MPP/MPA, although it happens. Surprisingly, I only knew of 2 people who went to advocacy from my Georgetown MPP, and one of them was Canadian. 

4. What I recommend you do is try to book coffee chats with advocacy leaders and ask them what they prefer for someone to rise up the ranks in their org. My bet is that they'll say to try it out without grad degrees (I also think you should try it out first). If they were to pick a party favorite of grad degrees, I'm guessing MBA and/or MPH before MPP... but who knows. 

[Maverick 23]

 I am new to this forum and I would greatly appreciate any feedback and advise. 

Type of student: Asian-American/First gen college student (immigrant/ low-income household)

Undergraduate school: Top 20 Public USA

Major: Economics, and Political Science, Concentration in International Affairs

GPA: 3.96 (4.00 in both my majors)/currently in senior year/rank in the top 5% of my class/ online certifications from IMF and Stanford University/Phi Kappa Phi,Omicron Delta Epsilon (honors economic society), Pi Sigma Alpha (honors political science society) 

 GRE: I don't know if I should take it given that many schools consider it optional at this point and given the COVID situation 

Language skills: Fluent in English, Urdu(Born in Pakistan and spent part of my childhood there), conversational in Spanish, and currently learning Mandarin 

Quantitative courses: Principles of Microeconomics, Principles of Macroeconomics, Calculus for Busi & Economics, Stat 1, Money and Banking, intermediate Microeconomic Theory, intermediate Macroeconomic Theory, Urban and Regional Economics, Writing in Economics, Economics of Sports, Financial Economics, and Econ development 

Publications: senior thesis, published in The Journal of Politics and International Affairs (NYU), write op-eds examining political/econ events for the largest newspaper in my state, member of my college's undergraduate political review journal, research assistant(created and presented original workshops for many clients including Fordham business school)

Work experience (5 years including internships and part time work): Air Force ROTC (top cadet in class..medically rolled), internship at the State Department, currently a temp with the Defense Information System Agency (part of Department of defense)...will have 1 year of experience when enrolling... internship at clerk's office at superior court, and a criminal defense intern at a law firm in my state. 

Tentative school: I would like to go to a school in the DC area 

Goal: I would like a career dealing with national security. I am currently leaning towards the security study programs at Georgetown and George Washington among others. 

Given this information, I would like your guys' feedback as to where I should realistically apply and how I can make my application stronger...I am worried about the fact that I am still in undergrad and many schools many look down on this fact. Yet I feel that I have accumulated enough experience through internships and other activities to overcome this shortcoming. As a first gen college student this process is very confusing given the fact that I have very little people to ask for advice. With that being said, I would greatly appreciate any thoughts you guys may have.  

Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Maverick 23

[GradSchoolGrad]

I come from a national security background and I strongly recommend against your trying to go to graduate school as your primary post graduation option if you are truly interested in national security. I  recommend 6 alternative career paths instead.
a. Apply to the CIA (their applications usually end on November), and they are looking for people.

b. Leverage your current opportunities into a full time role

c. Go in Federal consulting (Deloitte, Accenture Federal, and even the Boutiques - look around)

d. Law enforcement from the analytical side (all the agencies... including ones you never thought about  + states and locals)

e. State/local law enforcement (I know this might be controversial for some), but this can be a long run Pathway to national security with graduate school later down the road - I have seen it. 

f. Peace Corps (hey its international experience!)

Do I think you'll be able to get into Georgetown SSP or a program at Elliot...  Yes - however, just because you can doesn't mean you should. 

Graduate school, unlike undergraduate is not about grades... It is all about 3 things.

1. Networking

2. Internship/research experiences

3. Getting a job.

You might think that because you have some internships experiences you can coherently speak about things, but the reality is that it will be hard to be taken seriously. The going in assumption by anyone talking to you is that you think you want to do national security because of what you learned in class + appeal of it, but the confidence of you wanting to be n the business long-term given no full time work experience will simply be not there. Also, you will be in competition with your peers to get on research projects + internships + full time stuff and etc, and by not having full time work experience, your resume will always be 2nd round consideration. 

Every person straight from undergrad I met who tried to do the grad school route for national security has landed in a job equivalent to what people get straight from undergrad, and rather  uninteresting ones at that. Academically, Georgetown SSP isn't that hard... it is about maximizing the opportunities you get while in grad school that matters. You only have so much time and money to go grad school. Make the best of it and don't rush into it coming from undergrad. I AM SO GLAD I DID NOT! 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[pablito]

Applying to: MPP or IR @ LSE, Sciences Po, Oxford, SAIS, Cambridge, Georgetown, SIPA 

Undergraduate Institution: Top 10 Canadian university

Undergraduate GPA: 3.3x

Undergraduate Major: political science

Languages Skills: English, French, Bengali, Urdu/Hindi

Relevant Work Experience: 3 internships at Canadian foreign affairs ministry (trade & investment, a bit of foreign policy & national security), intern at university’s international development office, intern at royal charity (programs & policy)

Publications: wrote articles for a few online IR publications

Awards: two minor scholarships, dean’s list 

Strength of SOP: Emphasis on professional and extracurricular experiences. Highlighting my aspirations of working in diplomacy and foreign policy

Strength of LOR: Two strong letters; both of them are from instructors and not tenured profs 

Other: student mentor, co-founded university’s first IR magazine, regional director of an online IR magazine, Model UN, advisor at youth-led IR think tank, president of major political club, volunteer at human rights research center, Global Shapers member.

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, pablito said:

Applying to: MPP or IR @ LSE, Sciences Po, Oxford, SAIS, Cambridge, Georgetown, SIPA 

Undergraduate Institution: Top 10 Canadian university

Undergraduate GPA: 3.3x

Undergraduate Major: political science

Languages Skills: English, French, Bengali, Urdu/Hindi

Relevant Work Experience: 3 internships at Canadian foreign affairs ministry (trade & investment, a bit of foreign policy & national security), intern at university’s international development office, intern at royal charity (programs & policy)

Publications: wrote articles for a few online IR publications

Awards: two minor scholarships, dean’s list 

Strength of SOP: Emphasis on professional and extracurricular experiences. Highlighting my aspirations of working in diplomacy and foreign policy

Strength of LOR: Two strong letters; both of them are from instructors and not tenured profs 

Other: student mentor, co-founded university’s first IR magazine, regional director of an online IR magazine, Model UN, advisor at youth-led IR think tank, president of major political club, volunteer at human rights research center, Global Shapers member.

First off, no offense or anything, but usually when when people say MPP or IR without giving further clarification, that gives me a sense that they have no confident idea of what they want to do coming out of graduate school and graduate school was just thought of the "logistical next step". The two programs are decently different, and have different career outcomes (granted there is a fair amount of overlap).

I can't speak for Sciences Po, but right now, unless the schools take extreme measures due to insufficient applications, I don't think you'll be able to get into any of these schools. At best, you may be able to get into Georgetown MPP, because they tend to be a bit more lenient with international students. However, at best that is squeak by. 

Here is the reason why:

1. Top UK schools have a GPA minimum requirement to even qualify to apply for US students. Cambridge and Oxford usually float around 3.7 for their MPP.  I know they also have a high GPA requirement for the IR programs too (don't remember it off the top of my head). My sister who got in straight from undergrad at 3.9+ GPA)

2. US schools value work experience. Internships do not equal full time work experience. I have met people that go to US programs straight from undergrad but they had at least a 3.7 GPA + awesome internships. 

If I were you, I would get some work experience (probably a good 3 years) and then consider grad school at a US program somewhere later.

[pablito]

27 minutes ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

First off, no offense or anything, but usually when when people say MPP or IR without giving further clarification, that gives me a sense that they have no confident idea of what they want to do coming out of graduate school and graduate school was just thought of the "logistical next step". The two programs are decently different, and have different career outcomes (granted there is a fair amount of overlap).

I can't speak for Sciences Po, but right now, unless the schools take extreme measures due to insufficient applications, I don't think you'll be able to get into any of these schools. At best, you may be able to get into Georgetown MPP, because they tend to be a bit more lenient with international students. However, at best that is squeak by. 

Here is the reason why:

1. Top UK schools have a GPA minimum requirement to even qualify to apply for US students. Cambridge and Oxford usually float around 3.7 for their MPP.  I know they also have a high GPA requirement for the IR programs too (don't remember it off the top of my head). My sister who got in straight from undergrad at 3.9+ GPA)

2. US schools value work experience. Internships do not equal full time work experience. I have met people that go to US programs straight from undergrad but they had at least a 3.7 GPA + awesome internships. 

If I were you, I would get some work experience (probably a good 3 years) and then consider grad school at a US program somewhere later.

Thanks for the quick and informative response! 

[talktothedude]

First time/long time lol

Looking to apply for Fall 21 maybe Fall 22. I haven't dived to too deeply on grad programs yet, hence potentially waiting another cycle. Please if you have any schools to recommend that I left out based on my profile, I would greatly appreciate the help. 

Degree: MPP or MPA, I'm leaning towards an MPP, based on my skill set. Also I have a natural aversion to leadership roles. I have excelled in them but I don't like the position.
Programs applying to: Berkeley Goldman (Dream, nay fantasy school. *insert Wayne Gretzky quote*), Columbia SIPA (Dream), USC - Price (one of the best fits, based on the research I have done), UCLA Luskin, NYU, GW, UT-LBJ, Georgetown (This site has offered good insight into this program, that has cooled me off on it.) Any other suggestion?

Nationality: USA
Undergraduate institution: State School, nothing too special
Undergraduate GPA: 3.49
Undergraduate Major: International Studies (Poli-Sci focus) and Spanish
GRE/GMAT: 162 V, 153 Q, Retaking it. I was too focused on verbal as strangely enough my first language was actually Spanish, so i neglected quant, plus i choked a bit tbh. Looking at 158+ which is where I was testing. I haven't received my AW yet but I felt like I killed them!
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 3.5
Years of Work Experience: 3, obviously 4 by the time I enroll.
Describe Relevant Work Experience: The bulk of my work experience is from my current job working in my state's senate. I'm a policy advisor for the minority leader's office covering issues in Transportation, Local Government, and Government Oversight. While at Uni, I did an internship that was basically just grant writing. Also I worked for my local municipality's offices when I studied abroad in Spain, the job was mostly translating though. 
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Not started. I've mostly been reading samples and some other helpful resources. I'm confident, I'll be fine.
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): Confident on the LOR from work. Not confident at all on my academic LOR. I have managed to get one from an old professor who taught my capstone course (basically one on one instruction), she is now the head of the program. But I have not stayed in touch at all. Any tips are welcome.
Other: Did a semester abroad in Spain. As far as quant background, my program was not quant heavy whatsoever. I did ace Stats, Micro and Macro, and a Data in Public Policy course, but it was mostly playing around in SPSS.

Thanks in advance for any help. I really do appreciate the insights from this forum. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by talktothedude
formating

[GradSchoolGrad]

2 hours ago, talktothedude said:

First time/long time lol

Looking to apply for Fall 21 maybe Fall 22. I haven't dived to too deeply on grad programs yet, hence potentially waiting another cycle. Please if you have any schools to recommend that I left out based on my profile, I would greatly appreciate the help. 

Degree: MPP or MPA, I'm leaning towards an MPP, based on my skill set. Also I have a natural aversion to leadership roles. I have excelled in them but I don't like the position.
Programs applying to: Berkeley Goldman (Dream, nay fantasy school. *insert Wayne Gretzky quote*), Columbia SIPA (Dream), USC - Price (one of the best fits, based on the research I have done), UCLA Luskin, NYU, GW, UT-LBJ, Georgetown (This site has offered good insight into this program, that has cooled me off on it.) Any other suggestion?

Nationality: USA
Undergraduate institution: State School, nothing too special
Undergraduate GPA: 3.49
Undergraduate Major: International Studies (Poli-Sci focus) and Spanish
GRE/GMAT: 162 V, 153 Q, Retaking it. I was too focused on verbal as strangely enough my first language was actually Spanish, so i neglected quant, plus i choked a bit tbh. Looking at 158+ which is where I was testing. I haven't received my AW yet but I felt like I killed them!
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 3.5
Years of Work Experience: 3, obviously 4 by the time I enroll.
Describe Relevant Work Experience: The bulk of my work experience is from my current job working in my state's senate. I'm a policy advisor for the minority leader's office covering issues in Transportation, Local Government, and Government Oversight. While at Uni, I did an internship that was basically just grant writing. Also I worked for my local municipality's offices when I studied abroad in Spain, the job was mostly translating though. 
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Not started. I've mostly been reading samples and some other helpful resources. I'm confident, I'll be fine.
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): Confident on the LOR from work. Not confident at all on my academic LOR. I have managed to get one from an old professor who taught my capstone course (basically one on one instruction), she is now the head of the program. But I have not stayed in touch at all. Any tips are welcome.
Other: Did a semester abroad in Spain. As far as quant background, my program was not quant heavy whatsoever. I did ace Stats, Micro and Macro, and a Data in Public Policy course, but it was mostly playing around in SPSS.

Thanks in advance for any help. I really do appreciate the insights from this forum. 

4 things.

1. As silly as it may sound, your GRE score can probably be a difference maker for you.

2. One of your weaknesses is that given you have approx average work history/work experience/GPA and slightly below average school brand for the more competitive schools  (not trying to be mean about it, but these things matter), is that you lack Calc or more advanced Econometrics (equivalent can be something like Physics or Engineering), so there may be concern about your ability to do Quant for the more Quant intense schools. 

3. Your disaffection for leadership is going to be an issue for you. Leadership is something that schools look for and will seek from you throughout a better MPP and MPA program (either way) + what carries you over your peers a lot of terms of landing roles. For example, I didn't have that much quant experience, but my leadership experience + habits put me over for many internship / job opportunities.

If you seriously have a disaffection for leadership, then the jobs best suited for you will be analysis roles, and you would be better off doing a data analytics program or going to an MPP program like McCourt (where leadership isn't talked about much and is something that isn't valued as much). Lots of MPP programs I met really index on leadership strongly both for curriculum and for what employers look for. The extreme might be Batten School at UVA... but like I said, all top flight schools do so.

4. You are all over place in terms of Geography. Where the school is determine their network strength (with some exceptions). If you seek to go to Goldman/USC, I really hope you are okay with being West Coast. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[talktothedude]

19 hours ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

4 things.

1. As silly as it may sound, your GRE score can probably be a difference maker for you.

2. One of your weaknesses is that given you have approx average work history/work experience/GPA and slightly below average school brand for the more competitive schools  (not trying to be mean about it, but these things matter), is that you lack Calc or more advanced Econometrics (equivalent can be something like Physics or Engineering), so there may be concern about your ability to do Quant for the more Quant intense schools. 

3. Your disaffection for leadership is going to be an issue for you. Leadership is something that schools look for and will seek from you throughout a better MPP and MPA program (either way) + what carries you over your peers a lot of terms of landing roles. For example, I didn't have that much quant experience, but my leadership experience + habits put me over for many internship / job opportunities.

If you seriously have a disaffection for leadership, then the jobs best suited for you will be analysis roles, and you would be better off doing a data analytics program or going to an MPP program like McCourt (where leadership isn't talked about much and is something that isn't valued as much). Lots of MPP programs I met really index on leadership strongly both for curriculum and for what employers look for. The extreme might be Batten School at UVA... but like I said, all top flight schools do so.

4. You are all over place in terms of Geography. Where the school is determine their network strength (with some exceptions). If you seek to go to Goldman/USC, I really hope you are okay with being West Coast. 

I really appreciate the thorough response.

1. Yeah definitely hoping to improve my GRE score, really wish it wouldn't be such a determining factor but I think I can pull out a good score. 

2. That makes sense. I took AP Calc in high school which allowed me to avoid Math in college, didn't realize it was gonna bite me in the butt lol. I'm gonna definitely have to do better on the quant gre to show some ability. Thanks!

3. This is great insight. I was highly involved in college, so I have a ton of leadership experience I can draw from and demonstrate on my application/interviews. But yeah I didn't realized how large of a role that would play in my application/field. I guess I figured I was avoiding this by avoiding an MPA program. Definitely gives me something to think about. 

4. West coast is not an issue for me.

Like I said I definitely appreciate the response. Maybe someone already has a post, but besides individually looking at every program, is there a simple way to track down which programs are more quant heavy? 

[GradSchoolGrad]

11 minutes ago, talktothedude said:

I really appreciate the thorough response.

1. Yeah definitely hoping to improve my GRE score, really wish it wouldn't be such a determining factor but I think I can pull out a good score. 

2. That makes sense. I took AP Calc in high school which allowed me to avoid Math in college, didn't realize it was gonna bite me in the butt lol. I'm gonna definitely have to do better on the quant gre to show some ability. Thanks!

3. This is great insight. I was highly involved in college, so I have a ton of leadership experience I can draw from and demonstrate on my application/interviews. But yeah I didn't realized how large of a role that would play in my application/field. I guess I figured I was avoiding this by avoiding an MPA program. Definitely gives me something to think about. 

4. West coast is not an issue for me.

Like I said I definitely appreciate the response. Maybe someone already has a post, but besides individually looking at every program, is there a simple way to track down which programs are more quant heavy? 

To answer your last question - the answer is no, and part of the reason is because how programs do update their curriculums and you legitimately want to check one by one. I mean programs don't go from quant heavy to non-quant heavy. However, some programs have gone from Calc intense to software intense quant. 

[sal41]

Applicant: White female

Undergraduate institution: UNC-Chapel Hill
Undergraduate GPA: 3.93
Undergraduate Major: Public Policy, minor in Media & Journalism
GRE Quantitative Score: 160
GRE Verbal Score: 159
GRE AW Score: 5.5

Schools applying to: Still deciding for sure, but currently looking at: UPenn MSPP+DA, HKS MPP, McCourt MPP, UChicago MPP, Duke MPP
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 3
Years of Work Experience: 3
Describe Relevant Work Experience: Serve in a leadership/policy research role for a small, statewide nonprofit that provides news, policy research, analysis, and data on K-12 education. Extensive experience researching and writing about K-12 education issues, including a focus on education data systems and child nutrition programs.
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Medium -- strong rec coming from CEO, strong rec coming from one professor, third letter is pending -- possibly coming from a second professor who doesn't know me as well but who supervised my senior policy capstone project in undergraduate that focused on child nutrition programs
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): Still writing, but expected to be strong -- can trace a line between the focus of my undergraduate policy degree on food security/education with the work I'm doing now, will speak to specific aspects of each program that are appealing to me.
Other: Studied abroad during a summer of undergraduate, strong community service record, took applied microeconomics + policy statistics and learned STATA in undergrad but am hoping to deepen my quantitative skills in MPP

Edited September 4, 2020 by als14

[talktothedude]

1 hour ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

To answer your last question - the answer is no, and part of the reason is because how programs do update their curriculums and you legitimately want to check one by one. I mean programs don't go from quant heavy to non-quant heavy. However, some programs have gone from Calc intense to software intense quant. 

I guess the better question was which programs put a higher emphasis on quant ability when reviewing applications? I'm actually not trying to avoid quant heavy programs as my main reason for applying to a masters program is to develop those skills. Although I work in my desired field, there is zero opportunity develop the skills to do much more substantial work.

Ill continue to do more research. Thanks again for the help.

[GradSchoolGrad]

1 hour ago, als14 said:

Applicant: White female

Undergraduate institution: UNC-Chapel Hill
Undergraduate GPA: 3.93
Undergraduate Major: Public Policy, minor in Media & Journalism
GRE Quantitative Score: 160
GRE Verbal Score: 159
GRE AW Score: 5.5

Schools applying to: Still deciding for sure, but currently looking at: UPenn MSPP+DA, HKS MPP, McCourt MPP, UChicago MPP, Duke MPP
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 3
Years of Work Experience: 3
Describe Relevant Work Experience: Serve in a leadership/policy research role for a small, statewide nonprofit that provides news, policy research, analysis, and data on K-12 education. Extensive experience researching and writing about K-12 education issues, including a focus on education data systems and child nutrition programs.
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Medium -- strong rec coming from CEO, strong rec coming from one professor, third letter is pending -- possibly coming from a second professor who doesn't know me as well but who supervised my senior policy capstone project in undergraduate that focused on child nutrition programs
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): Still writing, but expected to be strong -- can trace a line between the focus of my undergraduate policy degree on food security/education with the work I'm doing now, will speak to specific aspects of each program that are appealing to me.
Other: Studied abroad during a summer of undergraduate, strong community service record, took applied microeconomics + policy statistics and learned STATA in undergrad but am hoping to deepen my quantitative skills in MPP

So from a pure baseline perspective, you are what admissions committees have referred to as a star candidate - as in you really check the block for the major categories. Your GRE is a bit lower than normal star candidates, but given your high GPA, I don't view it as a problem. I think for you, the challenge is more so about what works best for your career interests.

So some things that would be good to know about you to help guide you. 

1. How comfortable are you with Calculus and Calculus based econometrics? Academically? Professionally?

2. I just want to make sure that you aren't trying to target for a PhD... you border line sound like you might be tracking for that as a possibility... but just want to make sure.

3. Where do you want to take you career? Focused on data analysis + research, or being a policy mover and shaker (basically some level of operations of some sort

4. How dedicated are you to K-12 education? I say this because of all the policy areas across grad schools, I saw the highest proportion of policy area pivots from K-12 education to another policy area (including myself) due to how crazy competitive it is + very clique community + oversaturated it is with talent + limited NEW innovation / multidisciplinary aspects with the field which made it rather unattractive

5. How much do you care about scholarships? Of your listed options so far, I would imagine McCourt and Penn to probably most willing to grant you scholarships, but I view those (at this point) as some of the weaker options for you.

Right now... my general thoughts are:

1. UPENN MSPP-DA does not make sense unless you are trying to pursue a PhD + are interested in one of their niche programs/projects/connections ongoing. From a pure career perspective, it probably has the least range of career flexibility

2. HKS MPP / Chicago Harris MPP - are probably the top notch programs for your area - broadly speaking. Terry Sanford is great if you want to have a more state and local focus. 

3. Another option is to M.ED. program with a data focus at Peabody, Stanford, or Johns Hopkins - again depending on your dedication to K-12.

4. McCourt can be a good option if you want to do heads down in DC area think tanks / research firms with a data focus, but little else besides that (basically not really operational stuff) or innovation stuff unless you want to dual degree. 

5. Another option for you is if you want to do a data focused policy program. Chicago, Heinz, and McCourt all have them (I would say Heinz and Chicago are probably tied for quality... McCourt Data Science Policy Master's is a much better organized program than the straight MPP. 

Lets carry the convo from here.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by GradSchoolGrad

[GradSchoolGrad]

4 minutes ago, talktothedude said:

I guess the better question was which programs put a higher emphasis on quant ability when reviewing applications? I'm actually not trying to avoid quant heavy programs as my main reason for applying to a masters program is to develop those skills. Although I work in my desired field, there is zero opportunity develop the skills to do much more substantial work.

Ill continue to do more research. Thanks again for the help.

So that you also won't be able to tell because programs shift their risk appreciation portfolios every year based upon expected application demand and target class sizes vis-a-vie resources. A lot of what I and other people speak to are traditional measuring sticks of competitiveness (Pre-Covid) and passing the minimum barrier of reasonably being able to graduate the program. 

No one knows how COVID-19 + political volatility will impact policy school applications + matriculation for this coming cycle - so much instability. 

[prokem]

1 hour ago, GradSchoolGrad said:

So from a pure baseline perspective, you are what admissions committees have referred to as a star candidate - as in you really check the block for the major categories. Your GRE is a bit lower than normal star candidates, but given your high GPA, I don't view it as a problem. I think for you, the challenge is more so about what works best for your career interests.

So some things that would be good to know about you to help guide you. 

1. How comfortable are you with Calculus and Calculus based econometrics? Academically? Professionally?

2. I just want to make sure that you aren't trying to target for a PhD... you border line sound like you might be tracking for that as a possibility... but just want to make sure.

3. Where do you want to take you career? Focused on data analysis + research, or being a policy mover and shaker (basically some level of operations of some sort

4. How dedicated are you to K-12 education? I say this because of all the policy areas across grad schools, I saw the highest proportion of policy area pivots from K-12 education to another policy area (including myself) due to how crazy competitive it is + very clique community + oversaturated it is with talent + limited NEW innovation / multidisciplinary aspects with the field which made it rather unattractive

5. How much do you care about scholarships? Of your listed options so far, I would imagine McCourt and Penn to probably most willing to grant you scholarships, but I view those (at this point) as some of the weaker options for you.

Right now... my general thoughts are:

1. UPENN MSPP-DA does not make sense unless you are trying to pursue a PhD + are interested in one of their niche programs/projects/connections ongoing. From a pure career perspective, it probably has the least range of career flexibility

2. HKS MPP / Chicago Harris MPP - are probably the top notch programs for your area - broadly speaking. Terry Sanford is great if you want to have a more state and local focus. 

3. Another option is to M.ED. program with a data focus at Peabody, Stanford, or Johns Hopkins - again depending on your dedication to K-12.

4. McCourt can be a good option if you want to do heads down in DC area think tanks / research firms with a data focus, but little else besides that (basically not really operational stuff) or innovation stuff unless you want to dual degree. 

5. Another option for you is if you want to do a data focused policy program. Chicago, Heinz, and McCourt all have them (I would say Heinz and Chicago are probably tied for quality... McCourt Data Science Policy Master's is a much better organized program than the straight MPP. 

Lets carry the convo from here.

 

 

I'd also recommend that @als14 look at the Ford School, and that your SOP not focus as much on the connection between your undergrad education and your current work, and more on what drives you to do that work in the first place