How to grade non-native English?

[polisciftw]

Hello Hive Mind,

This semester, I am TAing a course in my field that is supposed to introduce undergraduates to social science writing conventions. I am trying to develop a rubric for grading the students' writing now before the semester really gets under way so that I don't grade any assignment personally.

Since this is a writing-intensive course, grammar and syntax will be an important part of the grade ... Or should it be? I am really of two minds about how to grade students who "write with an accent."

Any advice? Prior experience?

[kaykaykay]

How about giving the option of one additional draft before the deadline for non-native speakers? This will make the graders' work a bit more difficult but it will allow the non-native speaker students to improve and to correct their mistakes if they are willing to put in the extra work.

Alternatively they themselves can ask someone to proofread their draft so you might just want to tell them to do so.

[polisciftw]

The assignments actually include a graded draft for everyone, but that means that at some point, any potential language issues will need to be quantified.

[kaykaykay]

that is good, but I thought of an additional (non-graded ) draft.

or warn them well in advance to get their work proofread by a friend because you will not treat them any differently to native speakers.

Also some universities have on campus resources for non native speakers.

[emmm]

Many (most?) schools have a writing center. These students should already be aware that they are non-fluent, and therefore might resonably be expected to have to work harder to produce satisfactory work. If they cannot handle the classwork, perhps they need to be in easier classes. Different standards are not acceptable in the same class. I went to college with a weak math background, as that was not something students in my small high school were very interested in (most stopped math after algebra 2). I didn't expect or receive easier grading than my better-prepared classmates. Why should it be any different in this case? I have also had the experience of living and going to school in a country where I did not speak the language -- I know it's hard, but there, again, no accomodations were made (and my grades were pretty pathetic -- except for math, where I actually managed to hold my own).

Edited January 24, 2012 by emmm

[Andsowego]

Hello Hive Mind,

This semester, I am TAing a course in my field that is supposed to introduce undergraduates to social science writing conventions. I am trying to develop a rubric for grading the students' writing now before the semester really gets under way so that I don't grade any assignment personally.

Since this is a writing-intensive course, grammar and syntax will be an important part of the grade ... Or should it be? I am really of two minds about how to grade students who "write with an accent."

Any advice? Prior experience?

Establish a firm rubric ahead of time for ALL students that incorporates expectations for grammar/syntax. If you offer the opportunity for one graded draft, then do it for everyone. There is absolutely no reason to expect less from a non-native English speaker if they know what the expectations are well in advance. The responsibility is theirs to make sure that the writing meets the standards you've laid out in the rubric. You should also be aware of the assistance that is available on your campus with regards to academic writing for all students (another poster mentioned the Writing Center - your school likely has one) and actively encourage all students to use that resource. Also, as an aside, I'm kind of bothered by your phrase "write with an accent" which really isn't culturally sensitive. People don't "write with accents." I hope that isn't a phrase you're going to use with your students!

Edited January 27, 2012 by Andsowego

[polisciftw]

Actually, "writing with an accent" is the phrasing our Writing Center staff use when they discuss non-native English writing, and the Oregon State University's Writing Center training video uses the phrase as well:

http://oregonstate.edu/media/vsmbw

[Andsowego]

Actually, "writing with an accent" is the phrasing our Writing Center staff use when they discuss non-native English writing, and the Oregon State University's Writing Center training video uses the phrase as well:

http://oregonstate.edu/media/vsmbw

Perhaps it's a difference between a Canadian and American perspective? (I don't mean that in an attacking way, it's just a thought). I've spent the better part of my teaching career (life before grad school!) working with international students, and that phrase would be considered non-inclusive and quite offensive in my context.

[polisciftw]

I find it hard to understand why it would be offensive. It would not offend me if someone said "you have an accent." We all have an accent. As a consequence, we all write with one.

[Andsowego]

I find it hard to understand why it would be offensive. It would not offend me if someone said "you have an accent." We all have an accent. As a consequence, we all write with one.

Not true. Most of us write in a completely different style from which we talk (if you've ever done audio interview transcription, you'll know what I'm talking about!).

[kaykaykay]

I was always very frustrated with classes where I got the equality is treating non native speakers as native speakers treatment. You know some of these studens have been learning this language for a couple of years and they might be putting endless hours in trying to study both content/ language at the same time. Fairness is not to throw their efforts away because they are not native writers. In my opinion you should grade everyone equally at the end of the day but give some chance for non native speakers to improve and develop a system where people (everyone) can get a decent grade if they excell on the non strictly language aspect of the course.

[emmm]

It should be possible to succeed in a writing assignment, even if you are a non-native speaker. There are resources available (writing centers and the like). Failing that, find someone to proofread papers. Don't expect lowered standards. Everyone has challenges they face -- they may be different challenges for different people, but we all have them. If we are wise, we are aware of which areas are problematic and we devise strategies to deal with them. This may mean doing more work than others in the class. So what? Who said that anything was supposed to be easy? I am back in school after 13 years. Some of my prereqs are more than 15 years old. In fields that have seen many advances. Does this mean I have a lot of catching up to do that recent graduates don't? Of course! I could be considered "semi-literate" in some of the areas I'm expected to perform in. Should "allowances" be made for me? I'd be insulted if they were. How do you expect to improve if subpar work is accepted? Sorry if people find this view harsh, but come on people . . . if something's worth doing, it's worth doing right.

[LLL]

I concur absolutely with Andsowego.

Yeah, its pretty offensive (when it comes to writing, because it has nothing to do with it).

But, I think what they're trying to explain with "writing with an accent" is just that a non-native english speaker will write as he/she

pronounce a word (and it could be solved with reading) or how he/she changes the syntax of a sentence.

There are a few programs sold for non-english speakers that emphasizes on "hable ingles, leyendo en español" (learn how to speak english

reading in spanish-kind of phonetically-). That may be the reason behind the "writing with an accent".

As a spanish native and an aspiring writer, I find it very difficult to translate everything. We dont write

as we speak. If we want to be a good writer we should use a rich vocabulary. Somehow in English

composition following that simple rule may sound pedantic.

Anyways, be equally strict no matter what...though, the non-graded draft that suggested someone

is a good thing.

[koolherc]

I find it hard to understand why it would be offensive. It would not offend me if someone said "you have an accent." We all have an accent. As a consequence, we all write with one.

"accents" are phonological. writing is not. if you mean that the students' writings reveal different grammars, then that's not an accent---it's grammar. if you mean that they are mispelling words, then that is what they're doing. I would hope that Oregon State's linguists would address the Writing Center's misconceptions.

[maxfischer]

As a non-native speaker who came to the US for undergrad and decided to stick around for graduate school, I concur with @Andsowego (great name, btw!). You're not doing your non-native students any favors by expecting less of them - you're just giving them less of an incentive to improve. My English has always been good (better than most non-natives'), but I got the necessary impetus to better my writing from professors who made sure I knew I still needed work... I still remember a comment on one of my early undergrad papers, from one of my favorite and most beloved teachers - "you are too smart to be held back by an inadequate command of English." This was in the context of an analytically solid, grammatically correct essay, incidentally.

College is supposed to be a challenge. Real learning is uncomfortable, most of the time. Understanding that and pushing through that discomfort will help your students strive for better work. You just have to be diplomatic about it, and offer them supportive and actionable feedback, while making sure you don't pull your punches.

[Bumblebee]

As a non-native speaker of English, I don't think I should be treated differently from the rest of the students. When I decided to stay in the US for my degree I knew that it included being able to write research papers in English. My first papers were hard, since I had never studied real academic English and my English was considered too informal. However, I have worked hard to improve. I've read tons of research articles and I have asked fellow students to help me with my writing. I still make mistakes, but I've noticed that now I'm much better than when I started my degree. Nobody has treated me differently for having a different native language and this has pushed me to improve. If I had had special accommodations or if the professors had been more lenient with me, I'd probably play the not-a-native-speaker card often and I'd be too lazy to improve.

As I am pursuing a degree in Hispanic Linguistics (I'm a native speaker of Spanish), some of my courses are in Spanish and some in English and I write papers in both languages. But I have a professor who teaches in Spanish but when it comes to writing the final papers, he always makes us write them in our L2. Native speakers of Spanish have to write them in English and native speakers of English have to do it in Spanish. He always says that we should all be able to write proper academic papers in both languages. At the beginning I didn't like the idea very much, since the class was already in Spanish, but I now thank him.

[Sociology/Crim Lady]

Hello Hive Mind,

This semester, I am TAing a course in my field that is supposed to introduce undergraduates to social science writing conventions. I am trying to develop a rubric for grading the students' writing now before the semester really gets under way so that I don't grade any assignment personally.

Since this is a writing-intensive course, grammar and syntax will be an important part of the grade ... Or should it be? I am really of two minds about how to grade students who "write with an accent."

Any advice? Prior experience?

I would make it known to non-native speakers that they may need to find outside help with their work, and take extra time and care to proof it before handing it in. They need to learn to master their writing skills, there is no way around it. I've seen PhD level students (and professors) who are non-native English speakers whose writing is still a little sub-par for that reason...so the sooner they try to correct it the better.

[morningdew]

This is really interesting topic to debate about. I have to agree with most people about treating non-native speakers the same way and tell me to get extra help. However, I have to say that sometimes, those extra resources do not help at all. As you can tell, English is my second language, and I consistently go to the Writing Center to get my papers proofread. But some of my professors still give me lower grade because of my writing skill. When I ask them what I can do to improve my grade, they tell me to "go to the Writing Center". But I DID! Thus, I think TAs and professors should give some credits to non-native speakers if they have demonstrated that they have tried and went to get extra help. It's really unfair to see that while some native speakers can just write a paper a night before to get an A, I have to spend several days on a paper to get an A-. I just want TAs and professors to recognize that there are many non-native students who really try and work hard.

Also, one of my tutors told me that grammar can be learned and "corrected", but there are some grammar rules that cannot be memorized like learning to use articles ("the" and "a/n"). Thus, sometimes, you just need the natural skill to use grammar. Therefore, if it’s not a huge grammar mistake, I wouldn’t penalize a student for it.

[emmm]

Writing is not easy -- the students who can "just write a paper a night before to get an A" have spent years learning to be able to do that. They likely have written tons of papers in the past and they are often voracious readers. MANY native speakers can not write well and not produce an A paper in one night. It is a skill that needs to be learned and practiced. If the writing center is inadequate -- they often won't do line editing, which is what you probably need -- you need to find a friend to help you. Someone who will take the time to explain why what you wrote is not correct, ideally.

As I said before, everyone has challenges. I am currently in a class with much more prepared students (it's their field, it's not mine). I know I have to work harder to just keep up. Boo hoo -- so what? If I had not been willing to put forth the extra effort, I would not have registered for the class.

Edited February 22, 2012 by emmm

[msafiri]

As you can tell, English is my second language, and I consistently go to the Writing Center to get my papers proofread. But some of my professors still give me lower grade because of my writing skill. When I ask them what I can do to improve my grade, they tell me to "go to the Writing Center". But I DID!

Think about it this way: As your instructor, how am I supposed to know that you went to the writing center and got assistance? Should I just intuit it somehow from holding the pages in my hands? Granted, there was a course I TA'd where students who went to the Writing Center could get a form signed confirming that someone had helped them with their paper and then receive extra credit. BUT, that was one course. The rest of the time I simply have no idea whether or not my students go, even though I encourage ALL of my students (not just the non-native speakers) to go.

Also, one of my tutors told me that grammar can be learned and "corrected", but there are some grammar rules that cannot be memorized like learning to use articles ("the" and "a/n"). Thus, sometimes, you just need the natural skill to use grammar. Therefore, if it’s not a huge grammar mistake, I wouldn’t penalize a student for it.

That's not really fair. Are you saying that we shouldn't penalize students at all for making grammatical mistakes? If so, why even both having grammar rules or teaching them in language courses? I realize that not all languages use articles and that some use articles all the time in places where English doesn't. But, learning to use articles correctly is part of learning the language. And, honestly, I've had to learn when to use and not use articles for two languages besides English already and there are rules that can be memorized.

[morningdew]

Think about it this way: As your instructor, how am I supposed to know that you went to the writing center and got assistance? Should I just intuit it somehow from holding the pages in my hands? Granted, there was a course I TA'd where students who went to the Writing Center could get a form signed confirming that someone had helped them with their paper and then receive extra credit. BUT, that was one course. The rest of the time I simply have no idea whether or not my students go, even though I encourage ALL of my students (not just the non-native speakers) to go.

That's not really fair. Are you saying that we shouldn't penalize students at all for making grammatical mistakes? If so, why even both having grammar rules or teaching them in language courses? I realize that not all languages use articles and that some use articles all the time in places where English doesn't. But, learning to use articles correctly is part of learning the language. And, honestly, I've had to learn when to use and not use articles for two languages besides English already and there are rules that can be memorized.

I understand your point, and as a student who wants to become a professor in the future, I am struggling with this issue as well. The point I wanted to make was that most people in this thread are suggesting to tell students to get extra help. However, I'm saying that those extra resources might not be helpful at all. Also, I'm just particularly frustrated because I had a really hard time with one of my professors about this issue. I provided evidence that I went to the writing center several times, and I have attached all the comments that my tutor gave me. Yet, the professor never gave me even one point and still criticized me to the point where I lost all my confidence in my writing skill. I wish that professor acknowledged that I did get help and provided me another solution to improve my work. Thus, in the process of grading a student, educators should think about the difference between discouraging a student vs. challenging a student.

I'm not saying that students shouldn't be penalized for their grammatical mistakes. They should be if those mistakes are obvious. I also know that there are many students who do not work hard, and they do not deserve that A. However, there are some fuzzy grammar rules that even my English PhD student tutor had a hard time explaining to me. Thus, a non-native student can't perfect grammar just by memorizing them. I do not believe that just because you can perfect the use of articles in other languages, that it can be done the same way with English. I also know two other languages besides English, and to me, I had to learn them differently. Every student has different way of learning languages, and I don't think you can generalize that , "Since this student took so and so grammar classes, he/she must be good at grammar."

[msafiri]

I understand your point, and as a student who wants to become a professor in the future, I am struggling with this issue as well. The point I wanted to make was that most people in this thread are suggesting to tell students to get extra help. However, I'm saying that those extra resources might not be helpful at all.

This surprises me. I've never had a student say that s/he found visiting the Writing Center with a draft unhelpful. I have had students say it wasn't helpful but those are the students that go there wanting someone to tell them how to write the essay without having ideas of their own on paper. Maybe if you explained why these resources aren't helpful, I could understand what you're saying here.

Also, I'm just particularly frustrated because I had a really hard time with one of my professors about this issue. I provided evidence that I went to the writing center several times, and I have attached all the comments that my tutor gave me. Yet, the professor never gave me even one point and still criticized me to the point where I lost all my confidence in my writing skill. I wish that professor acknowledged that I did get help and provided me another solution to improve my work. Thus, in the process of grading a student, educators should think about the difference between discouraging a student vs. challenging a student.

I'm really not sure what you're saying here. It isn't enough just to attach the comments your tutor made. That is one part of the process of improving your writing and getting feedback from your professor is another. And really, it isn't up to the instructor to give you points for going to the Writing Center. You should go to there to improve your writing, especially if you know you need it. The one time I've given students points for going they were first year students, most of whom had no idea such a thing even existed. I encourage all of my students to go because it will lead to them earning a higher grade in almost all cases.

That said, it almost sounds like you're saying the professor should read over your grammar mistakes and not point them out to you at all. Then, how will you learn that you're making mistakes and not repeat them in the future?

I also know that there are many students who do not work hard, and they do not deserve that A.

Getting good grades is not necessarily about working hard. I don't know why undergraduates have a hard time understanding this but quite a few do, as do you it seems. You get your grade based on the work you turn in. As your instructor, I don't know whether you spent 2 hours or 2 weeks writing a paper and, quite frankly, I don't care because I'm going to grade what you give me. If it takes you 2 weeks to write an A-quality paper, that's fine. If you can do it in two hours, that's fine. But I don't care "how hard you work" because you can work really, really hard and still be a mediocre student.

Every student has different way of learning languages, and I don't think you can generalize that , "Since this student took so and so grammar classes, he/she must be good at grammar."

I never said anything about taking grammar classes. Please don't put ideas into my mouth and act as if they are my own. What I said was that there are many, many rules of English grammar that can be memorized. I know this because, though I am a native speaker, I have had to memorize English grammar rules. And, if you can't memorize them, find someone to help you with your writing who can at least point out the problems to you so you can look them up. Seriously, writing requires effort, even for native speakers. You have to be willing to learn from the criticism of others, to make mistakes and fix them, to ask for help, and to read well-written pieces if you want your writing to improve. And that advice is the same whether or not English is your native language.

Edited February 23, 2012 by msafiri

[wildviolet]

I think all students should be treated fairly. Fair does not mean equal. Therefore, to expect the same impeccable level of academic writing from native English speakers and non-native English speakers is unfair. I'm advocating for different, not lowered, expectations. I'm suggesting that teachers make themselves aware of their students' cultural and language backgrounds and of their own subjective biases, especially when grading.

Here's the example I always use when I discuss the idea of "fairness": Does a person with a handicap sticker on his or her car get to park closer to the building? Yes. Well, I don't get to park closer. Equal? No. But, fair? Yes, because I'm not handicapped, and I can walk the extra twenty feet.

So, as a teacher, I would not take off points for a few minor grammatical mistakes. If the paper was incomprehensible, however, I would take the extra effort to correct the mistakes and suggest tutoring or the writing center. I'm a native English speaker, and my writing really improved in college when I took a writing course from a professor who basically nitpicked everything and made us review our peers' writing (anonymously) and nitpick everything.

I'll end with some classic humor. English is not the easiest language to learn (and, might I add, even for native English speakers). Witness: one of my favorite episodes ever from "I Love Lucy." Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmwZqJB_8dQ&feature=related

[morningdew]

This surprises me. I've never had a student say that s/he found visiting the Writing Center with a draft unhelpful. I have had students say it wasn't helpful but those are the students that go there wanting someone to tell them how to write the essay without having ideas of their own on paper. Maybe if you explained why these resources aren't helpful, I could understand what you're saying here.

I'm really not sure what you're saying here. It isn't enough just to attach the comments your tutor made. That is one part of the process of improving your writing and getting feedback from your professor is another. And really, it isn't up to the instructor to give you points for going to the Writing Center. You should go to there to improve your writing, especially if you know you need it. The one time I've given students points for going they were first year students, most of whom had no idea such a thing even existed. I encourage all of my students to go because it will lead to them earning a higher grade in almost all cases.

That said, it almost sounds like you're saying the professor should read over your grammar mistakes and not point them out to you at all. Then, how will you learn that you're making mistakes and not repeat them in the future?

Getting good grades is not necessarily about working hard. I don't know why undergraduates have a hard time understanding this but quite a few do, as do you it seems. You get your grade based on the work you turn in. As your instructor, I don't know whether you spent 2 hours or 2 weeks writing a paper and, quite frankly, I don't care because I'm going to grade what you give me. If it takes you 2 weeks to write an A-quality paper, that's fine. If you can do it in two hours, that's fine. But I don't care "how hard you work" because you can work really, really hard and still be a mediocre student.

I never said anything about taking grammar classes. Please don't put ideas into my mouth and act as if they are my own. What I said was that there are many, many rules of English grammar that can be memorized. I know this because, though I am a native speaker, I have had to memorize English grammar rules. And, if you can't memorize them, find someone to help you with your writing who can at least point out the problems to you so you can look them up. Seriously, writing requires effort, even for native speakers. You have to be willing to learn from the criticism of others, to make mistakes and fix them, to ask for help, and to read well-written pieces if you want your writing to improve. And that advice is the same whether or not English is your native language.

I was just trying to share my experience when you asked me, "Think about it this way: As your instructor, how am I supposed to know that you went to the writing center and got assistance? Should I just intuit it somehow from holding the pages in my hands?" By sharing my experience with one particular professor, I wanted you to understand that there are some students who proactively do try to communicate with professors that they have gained extra help.

You said, "As your instructor, I don't know whether you spent 2 hours or 2 weeks writing a paper and, quite frankly, I don't care because I'm going to grade what you give me…I don't care "how hard you work" because you can work really, really hard and still be a mediocre student." I think this is where we differ. Yes, it’s true that I will truly never know if a student spent a week or 2 hours on paper. However, if they show me evidences that they have tried really hard (ex. frequently visiting to the writing center or coming to office hours or asking many good questions in class), I will praise his/her efforts to achieve success. For me, the student’s process and progress to give me that final product are still valuable. If we don’t care about "how hard students work”, it’s like saying that ACT/SAT/GRE scores are the only thing that the admission committee should look at to judge every student in the world. This can mean that we shouldn’t care about how many hours you have spent on studying or what your future educational goals are or what backgrounds you came from. We will only judge you based on that specific score. To me, that’s unfair.

Look, I’m not trying to pick a fight with you. I apologize if I offended you. I’m sure you are dedicated instructor and your institution has a better writing center. Also, I understand that native speakers have to work hard for their papers as well. But can you imagine more struggles that non-native speakers have to face? I was once a chemistry student and I could have just calculated endless chemical equations and structures. However, I’m really passionate about my field that requires a lot of writing, and I’m going to continuously work harder to achieve my goal. However, at the end of the day, the admission committee will only see the letter grade that represents my work in the class. Thus, I want that grade to be fairly graded considering all my efforts.

[LLL]

gracie123: There are professors and there are PROFESSORS.

Love the video, wildviolet. Although, we also have some letters with the same sound in specific cases.