justkeepswimming Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 You may have said that, but responding to her acceptances with "I know why you really got in" is insulting no matter how you justify it. Getting a diversity fellowship doesn't prove that somebody is an AA admit, either. All it proves is that they got the diversity fellowship; of those admitted, they offered the most in that area. I CANNOT STAY MAD AT YOUR PUPPYNOSE ICON, though. I don't think DontHate said anything remotely near "I know why you really got in." I realize that things can be tense on this forum, but let's try not to read into comments too much? And yes, getting or being nominated for a diversity fellowship doesn't take away from any of his/her accomplishments as an applicant. squire_western 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontHate Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 If you really feel shitty about being a "diversity applicant" then you don't have to apply as one. But I don't think you should feel shitty about it. Being underrepresented is as good an edge as any other in this largely random process. I was commenting on it because AA is a factor in the application process and I wanted us to be able to fearlessly discuss it. Nobody else would probably have brought it up if I hadn't. davidm, ErnestPWorrell, wreckofthehope and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asleepawake Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I don't think DontHate said anything remotely near "I know why you really got in." I realize that things can be tense on this forum, but let's try not to read into comments too much? And yes, getting or being nominated for a diversity fellowship doesn't take away from any of his/her accomplishments as an applicant. "The diversity scholarship reference tips me off to what may have been so desirable in her application..." I don't think I'm stretching this one that much. ishmael, TripWillis and midnight 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontHate Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 "The diversity scholarship reference tips me off to what may have been so desirable in her application..." I don't think I'm stretching this one that much. Read further down on my post that you are quoting from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 If you really feel shitty about being a "diversity applicant" then you don't have to apply as one. But I don't think you should feel shitty about it. Being underrepresented is as good an edge as any other in this largely random process. I was commenting on it because AA is a factor in the application process and I wanted us to be able to fearlessly discuss it. Nobody else would probably have brought it up if I hadn't. I DONT feel shitty about self-identifying but when people say things like this is why an application is "desirable" can't you see how I, as a person, feel attacked, cheated, and misunderstood? no one brought it up because no one knows her and has the ability to say anything actually informed about AA in this case 1Q84, asleepawake, Murklins and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asleepawake Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Read further down on my post that you are quoting from I did. Qualifying it doesn't really negate the implications of a statement like that. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a discussion about AA and the role that diversity does or doesn't play in admissions, but it seems very thoughtless to bring it up in response to another user's acceptances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justkeepswimming Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I did. Qualifying it doesn't really negate the implications of a statement like that. I don't think there is anything wrong with having a discussion about AA and the role that diversity does or doesn't play in admissions, but it seems very thoughtless to bring it up in response to another user's acceptances. Keely didn't take offense, so why are you taking offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeelyMK Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) asleepawake, I definitely appreciate your opinion and support, but my personal philosophy is that I've had to fight tooth and nail to even get to college in the first place, and it's made me a much more dedicated scholar than if I was just handed golden tickets for being a poor kid. I think it's wrong for applications to even ask things like race and socioeconomic status, BUT if you ARE going to ask me in the personal prompt if I've overcome any educational challenges, be ready for an earful. I'm not going to hold back, because ultimately I'm looking out for #1. I don't approve of AA as a general practice, but as DontHate says, it IS a current practice, so if one can take advantage of it, one should. However, I have made sure to try my hardest to pass on the opportunities and good fortune bestowed upon me in the last year or so - I've spent my time at Berkeley tutoring and mentoring the Guardian Scholars Program, which is a privately-funded program to help foster kids transition into college. ONLY 3% of us ever even earn a BA in their lifetime. Sorry, I'm just a little riled up now lol. And I think it's a statistic people should be aware of. Edited February 13, 2013 by KeelyMK dazedandbemused, lovinliterature, ErnestPWorrell and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justkeepswimming Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 asleepawake, I definitely appreciate your opinion and support, but my personal philosophy is that I've had to fight tooth and nail to even get to college in the first place, and it's made me a very dedicated scholar. I think it's wrong for applications to even ask things like race and socioeconomic status, BUT if you ARE going to ask me in the personal prompt if I've overcome any educational challenges, be ready for an earful. I'm not going to hold back, because ultimately I'm looking out for #1. I don't approve of AA as a general practice, but as DontHate says, it IS a current practice, so if one can take advantage of it, one should. However, I have made sure to try my hardest to pass on the opportunities and good fortune bestowed upon me in the last year or so - I've spent my time at Berkeley tutoring and mentoring the Guardian Scholars Program, which is a privately-funded program to help foster kids transition into college. ONLY 3% of us ever even earn a BA in their lifetime. Sorry, I'm just a little riled up now lol. And I think it's a statistic people should be aware of. I wish I could upvote this. This is great--thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomoisdead Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Not to sound heartless, but "blah blah fucking blah". You'd figure people at this stage in academia would have thicker skin. 1Q84, davidm, planesandtrains and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowMoreSerious Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Because financial background is a hindrance to people of all races, and assuming that a black person has suffered just for being black is no longer an accurate model for the way our society functions.Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caught_between Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I hope he's right too! I don't know whether he is right or not, but he told me this without me asking. I wasn't fishing for information from him, so I suppose that means he must really know. My only fear is that he was talking about making final decisions rather than informing applicants. If he is wrong I have a bone to pick with him! Well, that is definitely positive--that he offered up the info without you asking. I'm pretty sure he was referring to the fact that they will be informing applicants (not making final decisions). I failed to clarify in my post that Tina also said that decisions had already been made, and that applicants would hear a response within 3 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontHate Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) None of us "know" each other on here, but that doesn't stop us from discussing other elements of our applications. Affirmative Action is particularly sensitive for some people (like you, Davidm) but that doesn't mean it should be barred from discussion. Keely is obviously cool with talking about it. It can be part of how you market yourself to a potential PhD program, just like how you choose to frame your interests in your SoP or which scholars you mention as being potential thesis advisors. They don't just let in sub-par candidates because of AA. I think that an AA recruitment consideration could tip the scales in an applicant's favor sometimes, and it might explain why Keely got no rejections this season. By which I mean that her application stood out from the rest because not only was she an incredible scholar with a 4.0 GPA, but she also had a truly unusual background. Why am I judging her by saying that? I'm just making an educated guess about admissions, which is all we ever do on gradcafe. Edited February 13, 2013 by DontHate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidm Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 You'd figure people at this stage in academia would be more sensitive jmcgee and TripWillis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedandbemused Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 However, I have made sure to try my hardest to pass on the opportunities and good fortune bestowed upon me in the last year or so - I've spent my time at Berkeley tutoring and mentoring the Guardian Scholars Program, which is a privately-funded program to help foster kids transition into college. ONLY 3% of us ever even earn a BA in their lifetime. Sorry, I'm just a little riled up now lol. And I think it's a statistic people should be aware of. Wow, that sounds amazing; I've always wanted to get involved with improving the foster care system and the ability of older kids to actually get into college. Do you know of any organizations that operate on a national level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NowMoreSerious Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Keely didn't take offense, so why are you taking offense? It doesn't take much of an extension of logic to see why this question is silly. So we can't take offense to the ideas coming out of somebody's mouth unless they are directed towards us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnight Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I DONT feel shitty about self-identifying but when people say things like this is why an application is "desirable" can't you see how I, as a person, feel attacked, cheated, and misunderstood? no one brought it up because no one knows her and has the ability to say anything actually informed about AA in this case Further, no one here knows what Keely's application looked like versus other applicants'. It's entirely possible that she was the strongest of the batch *and* happened to qualify for a diversity fellowship--it seems more likely than not given her acceptance into four competitive programs!--though I suppose DontHate might be saying the same thing, but it's not entirely coming across that way for some reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecheese Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I think english programs should only accept diversity applicants. Two Espressos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asleepawake Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Not to sound heartless, but "blah blah fucking blah". You'd figure people at this stage in academia would have thicker skin. Ugh, you'd think people in academia would know that engaging in a debate about race, class, etc. is not an indictor of "thin skin." NowMoreSerious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asleepawake Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I've spent my time at Berkeley tutoring and mentoring the Guardian Scholars Program, which is a privately-funded program to help foster kids transition into college. ONLY 3% of us ever even earn a BA in their lifetime. Sorry, I'm just a little riled up now lol. And I think it's a statistic people should be aware of. Sounds like great work! Keep it up. <3 Good luck wherever you end up attending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomoisdead Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 You'd figure people at this stage in academia would be more sensitive To what? We're all looking out for #1 around here. We've all experienced triumph and rejection. If you take anything personally at this level you're in dire need of more experience. And I don't mean you, you know...that "you"...you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire_western Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Oh, yeah-- you guys are totally "engaging in a debate." I mean, my mind is blown by the dialogue. Asleepawake has shown all the argumentative nuance of a Fox News segment. 1Q84 and practical cat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontHate Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) I feel like the desire to be politically-correct and inoffensive hinders productive discussion. Why must we infantilize "underrepresented groups" and protect their feelings for them, as if they can't speak for themselves? If I say something you don't like, we can debate the point. We don't have to default to "you're being so offensive wa wa wa." Edited February 13, 2013 by DontHate davidm, ErnestPWorrell and Gwendolyn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontHate Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Oh, yeah-- you guys are totally "engaging in a debate." I mean, my mind is blown by the dialogue. Asleepawake has shown all the argumentative nuance of a Fox News segment. Fox News don't have nearly as many gifs - let's give credit where credit is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire_western Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Fox News don't have nearly as many gifs - let's give credit where credit is due. Totally, it's like tumblr over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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