Relationship with advisor

[santos123]

This topic is specially for PhD students.

For years, I have heard a lot of stories about relationship between PhD students and their advisors.

There are all types and flavors: some are excellent, others are not so good and a number are

real horror stories.

As a PhD student, what is or has been your relationship with your advisor.

Edited May 4, 2012 by santos123

[katerific]

No replies to this topic? It seems like it could be good insight on the different flavors on advisor-student relations... I'll bite.

Previous advisor: super demanding and very cold. I did not work well with him in that he CRUSHED my self-esteem. However... I did produce some really cool results. To his credit, he always pressed me to do work. Even though I was miserable... well, I did produce. Out of fear, but still.

Current advisor: I get along a lot better with him. He is very invested in my personal success. However, he is a micromanager and that kind of drives me insane. It definitely slows things down, but he does complement my style very well. and I am learning a lot from him.

[Tall Chai Latte]

I didn't do an MS, so I don't have a lot of advisor-student stories to share out of my own experience. I had one good advisor for undergrad research, but I was just an undergrad, and was presumably treated differently. My current advisor is good, she upholds her professional standard better than other PIs I rotated with, so I like that. We also work well with each other. However, she tends to spend less time teaching you things because of her somewhat impatient nature -- so you gotta do a bit of learning on your own. But I'm more of an independent person and like tackle problems on my own first.. So I guess that works out. She also doesn't micromanage, which is a big plus.

[WalterBenjamin]

I had two advisers on the MA level. The first was a stereotypical "Professor Smith" from the PhD comics. It turned out that he was incredibly caring at the end of my program, but you could not tell it the two years that I TA-ed for the man. He was very... detached. In fact, he sort of avoided having an eye contact with you, but we did drink a lot of wine in front of his fire place while talking. His approach to mentoring was loading me up with books, loads so huge, that I once went tumbling down on the floor right outside his office. I transferred to a different adviser, and there were no hard feelings. It was over a difference in academic interests/methodology. In fact, my family still goes to his house for Thanksgiving 7 years later.

Second adviser was a dream. I remember sending her my thesis at 11 at night, and having it back with her hand-written notes at 7 in the morning the next day. And the thing was HUGE. She was thorough, respectful, fast. We ended up having a great connection. I flew across the country 5 years after I graduated to have a heart to heart with her about my academic career and what I want to do with it. Come to think of it, we stayed at "Professor Smith's" house that time.

So there you go

[SKN]

I had an advisor for my MA that was great because I was just doing an MA. He's really good with undergrads and high school students and teaching people the basics and letting them get very good experience. However, if you're a phd student in his lab, it's really rough. He micromanages and doesn't let anyone do anything and can be a little condescending and rude if he thinks you're getting ahead of yourself. He's also not great for people's careers - not great about publication, but great about presenting at conferences. Sometimes, I think he's threatened by the success of his students.

I'm starting a phd program in the fall and my new advisor seems great so far. He's very available, but laid back, which I like. I haven't had to actually work with him yet, so I suppose it could change, but so far so good!

[go3187]

I have the best advisor I could wish for. The most important thing for me is that he has confidence in my ability to do research. He's also super supportive, and easy to talk to whenever he's at the university (he travels quite a bit, but 95% of the time he tells me in advance when he'll be away, and he's always available by email). I used to be more shy in undergrad, and having a friendly, easy-going advisor really helped me become more outgoing; especially important for me for meeting and talking to new people at conferences.

[Eigen]

I chose my school and research group based on the "vibe" I got from the advisor. Mine is great, at least for me- we fit really well, we have similar writing styles, etc. The main thing I like about him is that he's young and still really interested in the field- we swap cool articles we've recently read, talk about new possibilities, and such.

He's not so far out of grad school that he doesn't really remember the process, and he's very focussed on career development and helping each of his grad students plan out their future, and help them acheive their goals. He's great about helping us apply for external funding, get some experience with grant writing, teaching, reviewing journal articles- all of those little things that really help down the road.

On a personal level, I also like him a lot- his wife is also TT in the same discipline, so they've been quite helpful as "role models" for me and my wife who are looking towards having to navigate similar two-body problems.

He's around most of the time, and has a completely open door policy. Even when he's not around, I can call or text him if I need something immediately, or e-mail him if I don't need it quite as fast. He's fine with all of us working flexible schedules, especially those of us with family.

[Arcadian]

I chose my school and research group based on the "vibe" I got from the advisor. Mine is great, at least for me- we fit really well, we have similar writing styles, etc. The main thing I like about him is that he's young and still really interested in the field- we swap cool articles we've recently read, talk about new possibilities, and such.

He's not so far out of grad school that he doesn't really remember the process, and he's very focussed on career development and helping each of his grad students plan out their future, and help them acheive their goals. He's great about helping us apply for external funding, get some experience with grant writing, teaching, reviewing journal articles- all of those little things that really help down the road.

On a personal level, I also like him a lot- his wife is also TT in the same discipline, so they've been quite helpful as "role models" for me and my wife who are looking towards having to navigate similar two-body problems.

He's around most of the time, and has a completely open door policy. Even when he's not around, I can call or text him if I need something immediately, or e-mail him if I don't need it quite as fast. He's fine with all of us working flexible schedules, especially those of us with family.

It's funny - I can't really imagine myself being a good adviser as a young assistant professor. I'd be way too caught up in my own research and focused on earning tenure. I would think that advising becomes much easier after you get tenure, because a lot of pressure is removed at that point.

...But I could be completely wrong.

[TakeruK]

It's funny - I can't really imagine myself being a good adviser as a young assistant professor. I'd be way too caught up in my own research and focused on earning tenure. I would think that advising becomes much easier after you get tenure, because a lot of pressure is removed at that point.

...But I could be completely wrong.

I think it is hard to find a great advisor, either young or old. Sure, young profs may have the problems you mention but in Eigen's case, there are good examples of great young advisors too. Older profs with tons of experience could be good because they have little pressure but they may be pretty far removed from the field, and may not keep up to date on the latest work anymore. They may also not care as much -- maybe they are starting to drift into retirement and you may not see them so often. On the other hand, they represent a wealth of experience, knowledge, "clout"/reputation, and since they probably are happy with their achievements, they may let their students take more control of their projects, write papers and be lead author etc. Middle aged profs (i.e. recently tenured) could be good since they aren't so far removed from their grad school days, and aren't trying to secure a whole bunch of grants and/or tenure anymore. But they are still trying to build their career so you may have less independence with them. Of course, what kind of advisor is the best is very subjective and depends on the student!

I also chose my undergrad and MSc (sorry I am not a PhD student yet but I'm going to chime in anyways) advisors from the "vibe" and how well we got along when we first met. One was middle-aged and the other is near retirement. I am lucky to have both advisors who, I think, really have their students' best interests in mind and ensure that we are well trained as researchers in addition to advising us on our projects. They have been my mentors in applying to grad school (I have no one in my family who has done it before so they are my "academic parents" so to speak), ensured I have opportunities to meet other researchers at conferences (my field is small in Canada -- usually only 1 or 2 faculty members per school in the field), and they help get their students' names known to others. I was careful to also ask questions about themselves and their lives outside of research when I was visiting schools in order to find someone that would have a good rapport with me!

[Dal PhDer]

I have scanned through this thread many times trying to figure out what to say...I think my perception of the relationship i have with my current supervisor depends on the events at hand. Right now this best describes it:

[TMP]

You may not be getting a lot of responses as you'd like, OP, because nobody wants to "trash-talk" their advisers. even on a public, anonymous forum. It's just isn't professional and it's just not best to get in that kind of habit.

Also, every adviser-advisee relationship is highly individualized. So an adviser can maintain 5 different relationships, all of completely different nature. I could tell just by taking to my POIs' students during my campus visits- who was the favorite, who was "whatever, just gotta graduate," etc. That written, it's always best to keep your mouth quiet with other advisees, at least not be the one to bring something up like "I haven't heard back from Dr. X and it's been 36 hours!" and you, ONLY you, know that Dr. X responded to your e-mail within 3 hours... in that same time frame. Do you open you mouth and say that? Of course not if you don't want to be dealing with an immature, jealous colleague. Better to know little than to know a lot when it comes to this kind of thing.

[Dal PhDer]

You may not be getting a lot of responses as you'd like, OP, because nobody wants to "trash-talk" their advisers. even on a public, anonymous forum. It's just isn't professional and it's just not best to get in that kind of habit.

Also, every adviser-advisee relationship is highly individualized. So an adviser can maintain 5 different relationships, all of completely different nature. I could tell just by taking to my POIs' students during my campus visits- who was the favorite, who was "whatever, just gotta graduate," etc. That written, it's always best to keep your mouth quiet with other advisees, at least not be the one to bring something up like "I haven't heard back from Dr. X and it's been 36 hours!" and you, ONLY you, know that Dr. X responded to your e-mail within 3 hours... in that same time frame. Do you open you mouth and say that? Of course not if you don't want to be dealing with an immature, jealous colleague. Better to know little than to know a lot when it comes to this kind of thing.

I don't know...I completely understand about the professional attitude you set off when you talk poorly about your supervisor...but I think it depends on your audience. I see gradcafe a place for students to come, interact, and converse about their experiences in gradschool- their problems, the ups, the downs..etc. Your supervisor determines about 80% of your gradschool experience, and people should be able to openly discuss their relationships on here without feeling like they are looked upon as unprofessional. I think this an outlet for a lot of students who might not have the social networks to fall back on...sometimes you need to 'bitch' it out, so that you can go back the next day and handle it all...I also think it's important to hear other people who might be having a hard time, so you know you're not alone.

As for my relationship with my advisor...(for the OP)...it's goes on a day to day basis. I try really really hard to look at the bigger picture, but it can be hard. I also try really hard to remember that, while my degree and him are the center of my life right now, I am just one little letter in his big bowl of alphabet soup...but that doesn't mean he doesn't do things that frustrates me or that I think are lacking...it's just important to know that they're human- just like us! Also, most advisor-student relationships are dysfunctional!

[TMP]

Also, most advisor-student relationships are dysfunctional!

How else can graduate school be interesting?

You're right. But so as long as we're not specific in our details when we need to discuss "bad" advisers.

I've had to constantly evaluate the quality of my MA adviser's advising, particularly given that I had a kick-ass undergraduate thesis adviser. I've come to realize that a professor just cannot be everything. It's exceptionally difficult for them to be top-notch in the categories of scholarship, teaching, advising, mentoring, and service to the profession. There are also variety of circumstances that can make a professor a good adviser or a bad one, and considerations of whether or not to give them the benefit of the doubt.

What I can say is that, I think, once a student loses (near) complete faith and trust in an adviser (or vice versa) it can be quite difficult to re-build it. Advisers, indeed, are human beings even if students don't always see that way. They are emotionally and intellectually invested in their students. There had been some situations that caused near complete lack of faith in my MA adviser. I wasn't shy about letting my MA adviser know that she wasn't doing her job (quietly!). She eventually realized it. She did appear a little hurt but did learn that my own pain was even greater. She's a human being and she did care but didn't realize my own feelings and needs. Since I was in middle of applying and deciding on PhD programs, I was able to express why Prof X or Y would make SUCH a good adviser, my MA adviser was getting hints what she could've (or can still do) to be better. So it worked and I do very much appreciate her efforts to be more engaging and attentive, and continue to instill confidence in me. Now I am ready to be done and move on. Those were emotionally and mentally exhausting several years.

Given my past experiences, my new adviser, in my perspective, has been nothing but absolutely nearly perfect. Though we're just in the beginnings, we have a great working relationship- matching personalities, working styles, and interests. Her advising style is precisely what I've always wanted. She's also my huge role model as a mid-career academic. In many ways, I feel very relieved to know that I won't go into panic attacks (at least I hope not) because she's totally no-nonsense and it's kind of argue against her when there's nothing to discuss if there's no point to continue discussing it.

I think, there are plenty of good advisers out there. I have a number of PhD friends and I haven't heard too many "horror" stories. Roommates.... on the other hand, i've got plenty.

[Dal PhDer]

How else can graduate school be interesting?

Tooo true!!!! What else would I complain about?? ...I feel a "first world problems" need to be interjected in here

I certainly agree with you that you can't expect your professor to be everything..and it's really important to recognize that they have their own career, family, and life to think about- and what makes or breaks a relationship for one student, might not for another. And I certainly agree that it's difficult to re-build a broken relationship, especially with trust...I think the most important thing for a student to feel is what you said here:

They are emotionally and intellectually invested in their students.

I think a lot can be overlooked or forgiven if a student truly feels their advisor is invested/interested in them (especially outside of their project).

I have had a very interesting experience with my PhD advisor- I love him, and think he's great- but I do question his ability to get my through my degree. He's new, he doesn't have experience, and I thinnk my own personality/working style clashes with him. He does try, but I am constantly finding that he's not meeting my expectations. I do realize he's human, he's busy, and unlike in my life- I am not his number 1 priority. I still want to work with him, but I realize that I need to step up and fight for my own degree. I love that you would quietly let your advisor know you were having issues- this is something I am learning, and it's an excellent thing to know- you can tell them you're unhappy- this is a two way relationship.

I guess that's one of the biggest things I would like to stress to the OP- is that your advisor is human and might not always make the right choices...but this is your degree and you have to be the advocate for it.

[MashaMashaMasha]

Tooo true!!!! What else would I complain about?? ...I feel a "first world problems" need to be interjected in here

I love finding redditors on TGC

[RxPhD]

My adviser and I just "get" each other. I can often know what she is thinking. I love her greatly. She recruited me into grad school.

Perfect match. Relationship wise, research wise, and everything else.

[peppermint.beatnik]

How many of you see your advisor as a mentor? I definitely think there is a difference.

[Chai_latte]

How many of you see your advisor as a mentor? I definitely think there is a difference.

Mine is def. a mentor.

[sweetpearl16]

I have an adviser for my MA and he is wonderful. It's strange because I was intimidated by him at first because he is one of the oldest and well known professors in my department. But he also one of the most open and approachable. Other professors seem to go out of their way to avoid talking to undergraduate and sometimes even graduate students. His door is always open and I can always go in and talk to him whenever I need to. He is a wonderful mentor, gives great critiques of my work and pushes me hard to succeed. He is great at giving feedback in a timely manner, which something many of the faculty in my department don't do. He is also very open about the politics that go on in academia. I'll really miss him next year when I start my PhD program.

[Arcadian]

He's an interesting fellow. Sometimes I see how hard (and how often) he works, and I feel sorry for him. Sometimes I don't want to become him. Running a lab seems really hard. Lol.

 

We have a lot in common, but also different in some ways. Sometimes I question his motivations. I wonder if he is motivated more by money/recognition or genuine scientific curiosity. I wonder if he's already plateaued and on the decline in his career. I'm not assuming that he is, but I just wonder. I also wonder what he thinks of me. Sometimes I detect disappointment - others I detect a growing sense of camaraderie. I hope he thinks highly of me, but sometimes I don't even think highly of myself.

[juilletmercredi]

I have two advisors, and a great relationship with both.

 

Primary advisor: an associate professor who's up for tenure this year, and is probably about 10 years older than me (which to me, isn't that much - I have cousins his age).  He's really excellent.  I meet with him every other week normally, but given that I am currently working on my dissertation proposal he has made weekly meetings with me.  He gives pretty prompt feedback (usually within a week or two if he is really busy); it's helpful and constructive; and he's very encouraging and upbuilding.  He's just a generally nice person, and is really interested in my career and what I really want.  He also doesn't try to stop me from doing things when I want to - like the corporate internship I did one summer, or the part-time work I take up, as long as it doesn't interfere with my own work.

 

Secondary advisor: a full professor who is currently chair of my department.  He's also excellent.  He has great statistical and methodological knowledge and is well-known in the field; his network has been helpful to me (helped me get a postdoc, at least!)  I meet with him every other week as well, and he's also very encouraging.  He's a bit more "space cadet" like but is great to talk to and generally accessible.

 

I just really like both of my advisors and they've helped make my experience really enjoyable here.

[St Andrews Lynx]

I gelled really well with my last advisor. Advisor A was quite hands-off - he wouldn't approach me to check-up on progress or see if I had any problems, if I wanted to talk I'd need to walk into his office. But that didn't mean he was inaccessible or non-approachable, we had great discussions on a weekly basis about my research and I was never once told he was too busy to see me. As a scientist I have a huge amount of respect for him, on a personal level he's not much of a talker but I feel relaxed chatting to him.

 

Advisor B was very hands-on and would check up on me numerous times per day. That was problematic - I didn't become very independant during my time with him - but we shared a very dry sense of humour, had a lot of mutual respect and open dialogue, and I'm still in contact with him on great terms. He came from a v. forthright culture: in the beginning some comments he made reduced me to tears, even though he meant them as neutral observations, not criticisms. After a bit I got used to that.  

 

Advisor C was a lot more hands-off than Advisor A - if a group member wanted to speak with her they'd have to schedule a 30 min appointment slot (appointments available only one afternoon per week). She also had a habit of being forthright, but again with hindsight I don't think they were meant badly.

[imonedaful]

At my university, we work with a different advisor each year. The advisor I have had for my first year was a great guy but I don't feel like I got a whole lot out of working for him. He just did not include me enough in the research process which is completely against what our department does. Most students in our department submit conference papers and coauthor journal publications with their advisors. It just did not happen for me in my first year. I was expected to be taught by my advisor about the research process and included in all the steps. It seems like he expected me to have all my own ideas and projects already (which as a first year student, I didn't). I had a tough pairing. I was put with a brand new, just hired, just finished a PhD Assistant Professor. He was new to the university, the process and being an advisor. He may not have known what was to be expected of him. My recommendation is to try to avoid being paired with a new professor your first year. I think if you are farther along in the process, and have a better idea of what you are doing, then it will not be as much as a struggle.

 

Since I don't feel like I benefited as much as a should have from my first advisor (just not the best fit) I am going to try something different this year. I am going to try to pick my advisor. Another student in my department said if I meet with someone and they are interested in working with them, I can request to be assigned to them via my coordinator. So I asked students about their experiences with different professors and will meet next week with the professor I think would be the best fit. Hopefully it works out. 

[lafresca]

I had a very professional relationship with my MA advisor, and it was fine. Sometimes I yearned for a bit more inspiration or positive feedback, but received very little of it. However, I did see my mentor interact in a more positive manner with other mentees. So, as another poster mentioned, every mentor's relationship changes with each individual mentee's needs. Maybe my MA advisor and I didn't mesh well together, or maybe she thought I had different needs. I tried talking to her about this more than a few times and it ended up going nowhere. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and work through it. Grad school definitely teaches you how to interact with different types of people, just as any other job during this stage in your life would teach you. If you end up with an advisor that doesn't suit your needs and you can't change, try to reframe your negative experience as a learning experience. Soak up as much knowledge as you can and be very kind to yourself.