What Do We Think About Dating other Grad Students?

[WhaWhat]

I don't see how your life could be so insular that you don't have any relationships outside of your program. I've always tried to keep a somewhat diversified group of friends, albeit only because I play a sport. So I have school friends and rugby friends.

I think perhaps you're being a bit myopic based on your own very limited experiences and slightly rude. If a person enters a program in a new city which requires he or she put in 60-70 hrs a week to excel, it's very possible the person will find it difficult to meet people outside the program or have the time to build a relationship with them. If you didn't have time to play rugby, what types of friends would that leave you with?

[WhaWhat]

[but there are MUCH easier ways to look for husbands than attend a top school for a 5-year PhD. Just sayin']

I think your're incorrectly inferring that I think people should be using grad school as eharmony. There is a difference between that and being cognizant that gs may be the last environment where you are exposed to a larger group of like-mined people with which you can easily socialize. Some people are unprepared for the reality that after college and grad school it is harder to develop any new relationships, romantic or platonic. Realizing this is not the same as spending 40K a year with specific intent of getting your MRS.

Edited May 9, 2012 by WhaWhat

[WhaWhat]

This is a relevant subject to me! Coming into grad school last year I had only one rule... Don't date fellow grad students in the same program. And of course now I am dating a fellow student and I'm incredibly happy. I definitely wasn't hunting for a partner or looking for validation, but we have a lot in common and get along very well, and one thing led to another. In general I think we don't annoy the other students, apart from sometimes hanging out in each other's office with other students there trying to work, but in our program that happens all the time, not just with us two.

If you do find someone you really like in your program, I would recommend waiting a month or two and just get to know each other slowly, rather than jumping into 'dating' immediately. That should minimize the chances of 'meaningless yet dramatic grad school flings' But I'm glad I didn't stick to my rule of not dating a fellow student!

Thanks for sharing your experience. And good advice on being sure to take it slow!

Oh no! That's not what I meant at all! It wouldn't bother me if any woman (or any man for that matter - my post was gender neutral) was aggressively dating in grad school. I just know that actively seeking a relationship can be REALLY distracting for myself, personally, and that hunting for a boyfriend in grad school would almost certainly be a trade-off, where I wouldn't be as focused on my program. And if I was being so aggressive out of the fear that this was my LAST CHANCE for happiness, that would be too bad, because I think that would be a misconception that might make me miss out on some of the reasons I am going to grad school in the first place.

That's not to say I don't find dating a satisfying, stress-relieving activity, which is why I stated that I wouldn't be opposed to it if it happened naturally. This is theoretical for me anyway, as my boyfriend of a number of years will be relocating with me and our dog.

That being said, I can totally visualize a situation in which a person, male or female, who was insecure and constantly needing validation from a string of meaningless yet dramatic grad school flings, who was throwing off the group dynamic and constantly redirecting attention from the subject matter, could be super annoying in close quarters. However, I don't think that has anything to do with perpetuating a stereotype.

Fair enough.

Edited May 9, 2012 by WhaWhat

[ktel]

I think perhaps you're being a bit myopic based on your own very limited experiences and slightly rude. If a person enters a program in a new city which requires he or she put in 60-70 hrs a week to excel, it's very possible the person will find it difficult to meet people outside the program or have the time to build a relationship with them. If you didn't have time to play rugby, what types of friends would that leave you with?

I did just that. I entered a program in a new city, and made finding new friends a priority. If it wasn't rugby, I would've become involved in something else. I've branched out within my department and have a number of people that I am quite friendly with, but it's become clear to me that it probably isn't the place where I'm going to be making close friendships. Partly due to the lack of females, although I have never had a problem having close male friends as well.

[Molzy]

This is an interesting subject to me as well, because I too had a rule of not dating anyone in my department when I started. However, 9 months in, things happened and I started dating someone whose office is right next door to mine. We were very good friends by that time, and it has been almost a year now, and we are happily together and moving in together this summer. No one else in the department seems upset by it, and we are a very close department who hang out a lot outside of school. But we also aren't lovey-dovey in public, and I have made clear boundaries that we don't kiss or act like we are dating when at school, as I want to still be seen as professional.

So, I think it can work. Obviously, things can go wrong though, so you need to be prepared to still work with that person. I have never had a terrible break up in the past, I am still friends with all of my exes, so I don't see it as a huge issue for me, but others have different experiences.

There is actually one old couple in my department who can't be in the same room as one another, and I think it has negatively effected both of their graduate school experiences, as well as the people around them. Their break-up was not amicable, and resulted in campus police being informed. So, it totally depends on the people.

[OregonGal]

Reading these made me wonder about how women may view other women who (aggressively) date in grad school. If you thought someone was "treat[ing] grad school as a matchmaking service," would you be resentful (or maybe just a bit annoyed) because they may seem to be perpetuating a stereotype (i.e. that women are all just looking for husbands)?

I wouldn't assume that any student was treating grad school as a matchmaking service; however, I do think that you're likely to be seen as less serious if you visibly let your romantic life take over your professional life--by creating conflict within the program through a failed intradepartmental relationship, or flaking out on a project due to relationship drama, whatever. That isn't to say I wouldn't date within the department/program/school, because it's also true that like college you're surrounding yourself with like-minded people with which you have a lot in common and that makes it inherently more likely for you to find your partner there. I just would be cognizant of the potential issues.

The original poster also asked whether, fairly or unfairly, we thought that the "rules" were different for men and women. Well, it's unfair but it's also life--in STEM fields women are underrepresented. In tenure track positions there is still a bias towards men who won't be distracted (read: can more easily leave the family at home according to our cultural mores) by relationships or children and won't or can't take long parental leave/sabbaticals. Women who have a relationship within the department fail in a visible fashion (meltdowns, fights, drama) are more likely to be seen as emotional/less reliable than their erstwhile partner.

I don't think my reaction to seeing a woman date a lot in graduate school would be to resent her for perpetuating a stereotype; I'd only resent her if her dating was causing a lot of conflict and drama which affected my graduate experience, and it would be the same if it was a guy cutting a swathe through the graduate student population. The only way I could see myself having that reaction is if the student explicitly stated that her goal was to find a husband and then it would be because that's a weird reason to be in a selective, rigorous professional degree program.

Edited May 9, 2012 by OregonGal

[new_to_kin]

I met my now-husband at grad school. I was doing my masters and he was doing his PhD. We were in the same field, but with different specializations. Now I am going to start a PhD in a separate field entirely, mainly because I do not want to do what he does (no spousal hires in his faculty). My career has been seriously compromised by marrying him, which I knew it would be from the outset. I'm fine with that and would be happy to be an adjunct at OurU.

[StrangeLight]

I met my now-husband at grad school. I was doing my masters and he was doing his PhD. We were in the same field, but with different specializations. Now I am going to start a PhD in a separate field entirely, mainly because I do not want to do what he does (no spousal hires in his faculty). My career has been seriously compromised by marrying him, which I knew it would be from the outset. I'm fine with that and would be happy to be an adjunct at OurU.

i'm surprised someone voted down what is a very honest and frank assessment of a long-term relationship between two academics.

schools don't really "do" spousal hires like they used to. now, if your spouse gets hired, you may get a renewable non-tenure teaching position at that school if you're lucky, and only if the spouse getting the tenure-stream job is already well known and well established. usually (especially for new PhDs), IF the school can arrange a spousal hire, it's a visting assistant professorship that goes away in 1-3 years or a postdoc position that only lasts 2 years. the days of being able to get a tenure-track gig at the same institution as your spouse (also tenure-track) are long gone.

one of my newly hired profs was a well established tenured prof at a research 1 school. her husband, also well established, also tenured, in the same field. she applied for a job at my institution, got it, and came. she thought she'd have a chance at bringing her husband with her (again, he's well known in his field) but they were told it was never gonna happen. it just so happens that he specializes in a very niche subfield and, for some reason, that subfield is already pretty highly represented in the 3 major universities in the city. now, they commute by plane and try to arrange their fellowship years and sabbaticals in such a way that they can actually see each other. and we're talking about award-winning scholars here, they aren't slouches. if you both want careers, you won't be able to do it in the same city anymore. if one of you is fine with teaching-heavy non-tenured positions, then you might be able to get gigs at the same school/in the same city. but it's tough.

and considering that we're in grad school to begin our professional academic careers, it's worth thinking about spouse-hunting in an environment that will almost certainly force one of you to sacrifice the career ambitions or live apart on a permanent (seasonal) basis.

[comp12]

I'm in a field that is relatively small (and in turn, means departments that are also very small) that the very thought of in-dating induces a discomfort. However, I'm also part of a field that has stereotypically had high LGBTQ community, so attitudes regarding dating are fairly liberal, just it is rare within the same departments.

[3point14]

if you both want careers, you won't be able to do it in the same city anymore. if one of you is fine with teaching-heavy non-tenured positions, then you might be able to get gigs at the same school/in the same city. but it's tough.

This...this is disheartening, though not really surprising. I'm not sure what my boyfriend wants to do with his degree, but maybe he'll decide to stay out of academia.

[crazygirl2012]

If and when I get into a serious relationship in grad school, I would love for my partner to be another grad student. Really. Preferably not in the same department, probably not in the same field, and maybe even not at the same university. I'll be about a 45-minute drive away from a much larger university. Considering how much I love my personal space and time, that would actually be a perfect distance! And if I do get married eventually, I would prefer to marry another academic.

...then again, I'm a lesbian, so some people are going to have issues with my relationships no matter who I date.

[canteaus]

....i know if i dated someone in my department that doing work or complaining about doing work would become my whole life.

true...scary thought..

[imonedaful]

You know what they say, "don't sh*t where you eat." I think graduate students should venture out and date people outside their little world of graduate school. At least try it. As intelligent people with a high level of education I know we sometimes get a complex. We think we need to be with like-minded or educated people to be happy. However, it can make us incredibly closed minded. You should date different kinds of people and then if you end up dating somebody else who is a grad student, then so be it. I would try to stay out of your department, especially if it is small. When you have 5-10 people in a cohort and 2 of them are dating they will end up classified as "the couple" and you will lose part of your singular indentity.

[Usmivka]

I'm in a small grad program where many of us live much or all of the year at a field campus remote from any other young educated types. Dating within the program is endemic. It makes for a lot of awkward relationships/breakup/love trinagles (all of which I find hilarious, but I know several others find frusterating as all get out).

And then the couples are competing for the same jobs in the same subfields when they get out. Lots of wonderful couples come out of this, and they seem to stick together once they leave, but one or the other is always serially underemployed. I see this in grads 10-20 years down the line.

I know it is tough to 'guide' feelings, but it just seems so much more financially healthy to date someone in an unrelated field--preferably one with income potential!

Edited May 20, 2012 by Usmivka

[msafiri]

During my MA program, I dated a fellow MA student, albeit one in a different subfield. It just sort of happened and was definitely *not* planned since I'd been all about the don't sh*t where you eat thing. It took a few months before it was public knowledge. Yes, we were hiding it but it was also because we were trying to get to know one another and didn't want to make a big deal out of it if we just when on a few dates and left it at that.

But, like Molzy said above, we were careful to keep our relationship professional when we were on campus. That meant no kissing, no holding hands, etc. We'd go get lunch together sometimes but mostly, when we were on campus, we were each during our own thing. Our breakup was not so pleasant BUT it affected him more than me since I'd already graduated and he was still lingering about saying he was going to finish his thesis while working a FT job.

There are definitely pros and cons to dating another grad student. You can get a built-in stay up late and work partner, which can be helpful at the end of the semester. The downside is that you don't have someone to distract you from school work and get you to leave the house, go to a movie, etc. The last person I dated was extremely smart but NOT an academic, and I really enjoyed the dynamics of having a partner that worked a steady schedule.

[katerific]

My field is relatively small, so departments also tend to be small. From what I've seen, dating within the department... does not work. Ever.

I have tried online dating (HAHA WHAT) and it was okay. I met a few guys who were pretty cool for the most part... except for the guy who gave a 20 minute rant on why global warming is a hoax on the first date (nota bene: I am a climate scientist). I hope that by mentioning this, the thread will devolve into an "internet dating nightmare" story hive. Um. please?

[crazygirl2012]

I hope that by mentioning this, the thread will devolve into an "internet dating nightmare" story hive. Um. please?

I'll play! A girl messaged me who didn't really seem like my type for multiple reasons, but I didn't want to discount anyone right away, so I agreed to meet her for a date. I gave her my number, and she started texting me all. day. every. day. When I began to ignore some of her texts (like the ones that just said "what are you doing?"), she got upset. I hadn't even met her yet, and I'm the type of person who would be completely turned off and downright terrified by anyone being clingy. I was very nice when I called off the date, and she seemed okay with it. A month later, she messaged me to say hello and ask if we could still talk online occasionally. A couple messages later, she casually mentioned that she had been arrested that week for assaulting someone (not in self-defense), but that it was okay and she just had a bad temper. Yeah, I didn't reply to that message. The story would have been way better had I actually gone through with the date... but I can't say I regret canceling!

[imonedaful]

I hope that by mentioning this, the thread will devolve into an "internet dating nightmare" story hive. Um. please?

Haha, I will play too. I have done my fair share of online dating since in general, I just don't socialize with people in the conventional way. I have met some interesting people, and some not so interesting ones. The most entertaining as of late is people I will go on a date with and we will get into an argument about something random. One guy told me that he thinks if he had just done sports in high school he would have no problem gotten offered a full scholarship to a college program. I asked him what he based his assumptions off and told me "oh, I am in good shape, somebody would take me." So I had to explain to him the statistic of getting a college scholarship for athletics (thank you, quantative methods) and told him I was rather insulted that he felt that it was that easy to accomplish (I did my undergrad and grad on an athletic scholarship). Nevertheless, we never saw eachother again.

The worst thing you can hear on a first date, especially someone you met online, is "hey, so I will see you tomorrow?" haha. This has happened to me a few times, just because I met you one time does not mean I want to see you every day, I do other things.

Another man I met, who I actually thought seemed nice and hung out with a few times, told me that he believed "men only like women for 90% looks and 10% everything else." What a horrifying thing to say to a woman with a Master's degree that can probably kick your ass.

One of my least favorites is the "oh you work out" or "you competed this..." "I bet I can beat you..." Nobody cares.

I did get to listen to a man tell me a very involved story about him and his ex-girlfriend and how they were living together and she just left while he was gone and didn't tell him. Not something you should tell somebody on the first date if you are trying to impress them. I started to understand why somebody would want to sneak out in the middle of the night...

Okay, one more. I met up with someone and when he opened his mouth I realized... he had adult braces! I cannot remember last person over the age of 18 that I had seen with braces. I flinched a little bit when he started talking, but I was trying not to act too shocked, but it caught me off guard.

[katerific]

Okay, one more. I met up with someone and when he opened his mouth I realized... he had adult braces! I cannot remember last person over the age of 18 that I had seen with braces. I flinched a little bit when he started talking, but I was trying not to act too shocked, but it caught me off guard.

Tom Cruise!

[Hank Scorpio]

Oh gosh, the horrors of online dating. I went on a few dates with people I met online...doesn't typically go well.

Personally, I'm excited to be surrounded by like-minded people. I'm by no means making dating a priority in grad school, but definitely leaving that option open. I spent some time after my undergrad in the work force, and the only place to really meet people is...well, work. And people who meet in the work place (when we're talking about call centres, restaurants, etc.) are meeting because, for the most part, they're there to make money. It's not usually because of a specific worldview or interest in a certain subject matter. But in grad school, entirely different story. It will be nice to be around dating prospects who not only share interests, but see them as significantly important.

[Sigaba]

I hope that by mentioning this, the thread will devolve into an "internet dating nightmare" story hive. Um. please?

I'll play.

A woman asked me out and I got to spend a great deal of time listening to her talk about her cat's experience in the feline equivalent of ICU. Evidently, someone had kicked the cat (barely this side of being a kitten) and caused a profound amount of internal trauma. I like dogs. So after a while, I felt like George Costanza in the episode of Seinfeld where he gets to take care of a squirrel. (This is the same episode in which Kramer finds the set of the Merv Griffin Show.) As I'd picked the meeting place, I spent the balance of the encounter planning where I'd go in the area the moment the date ended. (Of course, my first stop was Borders Books--how I sort of miss that place. Second stop, Tower Records.)

Another woman who asked me out showed up on the first (and only) date with all ten of her fingernails caked with grime. After making some off putting comments, she admitted that she hated white people and had done so for most of her life, even though she herself was biracial. Me being me, I pointed out that she'd gotten her B.A. at University of Notre Dame and asked why she went there. "There are a few white people in South Bend, Indiana," I said encouragingly. This cheerful observation led to opportunities to activate further what ever was driving her increasingly obvious sense of self loathing.

Make no mistake. I believe that we all have our share of petty hatreds buried at various depths in our unconscious. I believe that everyone is, at one level or another, a racist. But in my book, I simply cannot excuse an educated person for allowing such a character trait to spiral into a character flaw. (Yes, of course, I'm talking about her fingernails. )

By this time, we were already seated and I was hungry so we proceeded to order our entrees. She expressed a degree of surprise Oh, I still get dinner? For me, it was a no brainer--I hadn't eaten all day, I liked the restaurant, and I had picked it because it was close to places I wanted to go if things went South. So I tuned her out and planned what I'd do after I was done eating. After the meal, I walked her to her car as quickly as possible and gave a thoroughly non responsive answer when she asked me to call her. I felt sorry for her two dogs that were waiting for her in her car. Next stop, Borders Books. (I kind of miss that place. I suppose.) Second stop, Tower Records.

Another woman who asked me out said "I hate history" soon after we sat down. I surprised myself by responding pleasantly. Again, I'd picked a restaurant I liked in an area of town that I wanted to re-explore. So plans B and C were already in place. For what ever reason, the banter went on much longer than I intended so I didn't make it to Barnes and Noble. (Had a Borders Books been nearby, I'd like to think I'd have been out of there a lot sooner.)

In regards to the OP. IME, there are few secrets in an academic department. If someone in that department knows something about you, chances are that others do as well. As I'm someone who zealously protects the boundaries of my privacy, I'd be very reluctant to put myself in a position where professors would know just how afraid of spiders I actually am. Now, if she is in a different department, that's another issue altogether.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Sigaba

[Dal PhDer]

I am scared to try internet dating....you all should write a "how to" for us wimps!! You can be our "internet dating mentors"!

[peatsoc]

occasional gradcafe lurker here, who started an account after reading this topic...

I'll also play the online dating story game. My first semester of grad school (and first semester TA-ing), several of my undergraduate students found my okcupid profile. okcupid lets you see people who have recently viewed your profile - I had a sudden influx of 18-22 year olds living in the town in which my school is located. I didn't click through to any of their profiles, but recognized them all from their pictures. I deleted my profile immediately and haven't created one since (and am somewhat upset about this, as online dating really is a great way to meet new people).

Needless to say, this created quite a few problems. I didn't have anything too scandalous on my profile, but it was (obviously) far more personal and less professional than my demeanor in the classroom. I felt like I lost some amount of authority as an instructor, as these students were clearly trying not to laugh during subsequent classes (and I have no idea how many students in the class they told). One of these students started sending me highly inappropriate emails, which I then had to report - it was a mess.

...bottom line, if you will be TA-ing or interacting with undergraduates, think very hard about whether you want to have an online dating profile - and if you choose to do so, be extremely careful about what you put on your profile. (Seriously, I had little beyond my sexual orientation/gender identity (which did out me as queer to these students - not something I was trying to hide, but something I would have preferred to share in a different way), age, favorite movies, things I like to do, etc. - but that still affected me very negatively)

[ktel]

^ Ugh that sounds SO awful. But definitely serves as a great warning to everyone about how your Internet life and personal/professional life can clash. At our TA orientation we were luckily given such a warning, but they did not specifically mention things like online dating profiles.

[jeffster]

People meet significant-others in their work/school environment ALL the time, as has been stated, since it's one of your main sources of socialization. Honestly, I suspect the "whether it works out or not" thing for any given individual is directly proportional to the number relationships from anywhere for that individual that end in huge flaming messes.

If you're on speaking terms with a majority of your exes, go for it. If you can't break up with someone wtihout tipping off WWIII, don't go for it.

As for the online dating part, it went well for me. The first date it set me up with was this woman who worked on the assembly line for General Motors, had a high school diploma and was a right-leaning republican, when I'm a left-leaning guy who has been in academia for ages. I only went because it was the first match it suggested and I wanted to figure out what they thought they saw here. Needless to say it didn't make it to date number two! But then my second match I ended up marrying.

So, I guess a 50% success rate is pretty good in this regard!