FALL 2013 APPLICANTS!

[asdf123]

Another side of me, however, is happy to see people going to Museums, even if not for the right reasons.... But again, what are the right reasons?

 

brazilianbuddy - I think you get to the heart of the matter with this last, bet-hedging question -- and I think your bet-hedging at the end is the most productive and generous part of your post.  To think in terms of a right/wrong binary rules out and obfuscates a whole host of complicated and rich experiences that people have in close proximity to artworks.  Rather than disparaging "sightseeing, picture-taking, been-there-done-that-bragging-rights sort of reasons" as wrong sorts of reasons, and subsequently asking whether or not/how museums can accomodate these wrong reasons, it's more productive, perhaps, to start with generative questions -- what sorts of experiences do people have in close proximity to artworks?  why do museums engender certain types of experiences/expectations/responses?  why do people photograph/document themselves near actual artworks? how might this phenomenon help to think through the affective power of art? of museums?

Edited January 30, 2013 by asdf123

[fullofpink]

I recall everyone at MOMA simply snapping their pics of Starry Night and then briskly moving on. 

 

One of my issues is with the Mona Lisa, as seen by the photos below. How can anyone enjoy the art? 

 

 

 

 

[HalFoster]

Hey Gang, sorry for the Bolded Text in my letter to you. I wrote you that in a Google doc. and then when I copied it into the Reply Box, it just went bold, I could not turn it off (so funny that someone mentioned it), so I sent it as was.

 

The worst part of these comments are people who think my posts are too long (sad to see art historians who don't like reading). Have you ever been on any other Forums? What you write is actually meant for the Chat Section. Who wants to check in on a forum full of back-and-forth anxiety ridden one-liners? That's part of the reason I am leaving this thread. It's called "Fall 2013 Applicants" and people shoot one-liners all day long about getting in and not getting in. No one talks about their passions, why they applied, or what the PhD means for them, I tried and look what happened to me.

 

When you all get accepted to your dream programs you will be reading texts much longer and tougher than what I have written on this thread. Are you up for Benjamin, Foucault, Freud, Lacan, Marx, Kant, and Hegel? You might want to practice reading more than one line of text and posting cute animal photos.

 

For the record and just to kind of brag last minute--do keep an eye out on Amazon for a book in which I contributed called Theorizing Visual Studies: Writing Through the Discipline. I am 1 of 60 international graduate students chosen for the book, it was something I did while I was earning my second masters in education. It was a lot of fun! Maybe if you read it you'll learn my true identity, how wild and crazy would that be!

 

Lastly, if anyone wants to engage an open online dialogic community where we discuss our field, contemporary art, who is reading what, and why we want PhDs in the first place--I might start that thread topic some place if there happens to be interest. It might be fun to discuss these things while we wait for rejections and acceptances. Unlike some here, I'm an artist, art educator, and art historian with or without the PhD. It's what you love and learn, not what school, program, or degree you get.

 

Love you guys!

Hang in there.

[HalFoster]

I down voted myself too. It was fun, who knew. I must really suck.

[HalFoster]

Oh, do you guys need me to log off so that you can post things about me behind my back? That's cool. I'll log off now. 

[poliscar]

Hey Gang, sorry for the Bolded Text in my letter to you. I wrote you that in a Google doc. and then when I copied it into the Reply Box, it just went bold, I could not turn it off (so funny that someone mentioned it), so I sent it as was.

 

The worst part of these comments are people who think my posts are too long (sad to see art historians who don't like reading). Have you ever been on any other Forums? What you write is actually meant for the Chat Section. Who wants to check in on a forum full of back-and-forth anxiety ridden one-liners? That's part of the reason I am leaving this thread. It's called "Fall 2013 Applicants" and people shoot one-liners all day long about getting in and not getting in. No one talks about their passions, why they applied, or what the PhD means for them, I tried and look what happened to me.

 

When you all get accepted to your dream programs you will be reading texts much longer and tougher than what I have written on this thread. Are you up for Benjamin, Foucault, Freud, Lacan, Marx, Kant, and Hegel? You might want to practice reading more than one line of text and posting cute animal photos.

 

For the record and just to kind of brag last minute--do keep an eye out on Amazon for a book in which I contributed called Theorizing Visual Studies: Writing Through the Discipline. I am 1 of 60 international graduate students chosen for the book, it was something I did while I was earning my second masters in education. It was a lot of fun! Maybe if you read it you'll learn my true identity, how wild and crazy would that be!

 

Lastly, if anyone wants to engage an open online dialogic community where we discuss our field, contemporary art, who is reading what, and why we want PhDs in the first place--I might start that thread topic some place if there happens to be interest. It might be fun to discuss these things while we wait for rejections and acceptances. Unlike some here, I'm an artist, art educator, and art historian with or without the PhD. It's what you love and learn, not what school, program, or degree you get.

 

Love you guys!

Hang in there.

 

I am incredibly impressed by your two MEds. 

 

Also: Julie Mehretu is a corporate hack. 

Edited January 30, 2013 by poliscar

[apotheosis]

Hey Gang, sorry for the Bolded Text in my letter to you. I wrote you that in a Google doc. and then when I copied it into the Reply Box, it just went bold, I could not turn it off (so funny that someone mentioned it), so I sent it as was.

 

The worst part of these comments are people who think my posts are too long (sad to see art historians who don't like reading). Have you ever been on any other Forums? What you write is actually meant for the Chat Section. Who wants to check in on a forum full of back-and-forth anxiety ridden one-liners? That's part of the reason I am leaving this thread. It's called "Fall 2013 Applicants" and people shoot one-liners all day long about getting in and not getting in. No one talks about their passions, why they applied, or what the PhD means for them, I tried and look what happened to me.

 

When you all get accepted to your dream programs you will be reading texts much longer and tougher than what I have written on this thread. Are you up for Benjamin, Foucault, Freud, Lacan, Marx, Kant, and Hegel? You might want to practice reading more than one line of text and posting cute animal photos.

 

For the record and just to kind of brag last minute--do keep an eye out on Amazon for a book in which I contributed called Theorizing Visual Studies: Writing Through the Discipline. I am 1 of 60 international graduate students chosen for the book, it was something I did while I was earning my second masters in education. It was a lot of fun! Maybe if you read it you'll learn my true identity, how wild and crazy would that be!

 

Lastly, if anyone wants to engage an open online dialogic community where we discuss our field, contemporary art, who is reading what, and why we want PhDs in the first place--I might start that thread topic some place if there happens to be interest. It might be fun to discuss these things while we wait for rejections and acceptances. Unlike some here, I'm an artist, art educator, and art historian with or without the PhD. It's what you love and learn, not what school, program, or degree you get.

 

Love you guys!

Hang in there.

 

Don't worry Hal, we'll have all the time in the world to talk, read, and write about art and theory in graduate school. But I just think that we gotta chill sometimes.

 

I betcha that if you actually met Foucault back in the day, he wouldn't care to talk about philosophy or what his PhD meant to him; he was too busy sleeping around. Or Derrida, who would actually be more likely to talk about his cat (Derrida cat memes, anyone?) than anything else--after all he wrote a whole book on his cat seeing him naked.

 

But you are right about trying to express our passion, though. I agree, we should be passionate about what we study and write about. Just look at Foucault, who wrote his History of Sexuality series while at Berkeley. In his free time, he's known to be that "mad French leather queen who whips anyone who’ll let him at San Francisco gay bath houses." Maybe we can discuss how Foucault's late turn to ethics as "care of self" might be related to his theory and practice of S&M? (Is that a serious enough conversation topic for you?)

 

[juliette22]

wanna loose some time? http://www.theuselessweb.com/

[BuddingScholar]

brazilianbuddy - I think you get to the heart of the matter with this last, bet-hedging question -- and I think your bet-hedging at the end is the most productive and generous part of your post.  To think in terms of a right/wrong binary rules out and obfuscates a whole host of complicated and rich experiences that people have in close proximity to artworks.  Rather than disparaging "sightseeing, picture-taking, been-there-done-that-bragging-rights sort of reasons" as wrong sorts of reasons, and subsequently asking whether or not/how museums can accomodate these wrong reasons, it's more productive, perhaps, to start with generative questions -- what sorts of experiences do people have in close proximity to artworks?  why do museums engender certain types of experiences/expectations/responses?  why do people photograph/document themselves near actual artworks? how might this phenomenon help to think through the affective power of art? of museums?

 

asdf123: I didn't mean to sound facile and oversimplify what, in fact, is a much richer and deeply layered subject.  It was certainly not my intention to propose any sort of dialectical resolution either.  I understand that my rhetoric sounded very much like "half-empty-glass," and I guess, in hindsight, it was supposed to sound that way, since I merely meant to express my feelings and wondered if anyone felt the same way.  Perhaps I am a romantic, or simply crazy, but museums and libraries are sort of sanctuaries for me.  I think that everyone should genuflect at the entrance of these places, and immediately adopt a posture of absolute respect, religiosity and devotion to the content inside.  Thus, anytime I am confronted with the opposite I am often dismayed and annoyed.  --- honestly, just a personal thing ---  I am constantly criticizing myself for being so uptight and tough on people, but believe me, I am equally harder, in fact, a lot harder on myself.

 

On a different note, I think you ask fantastic questions here, but I will not pretend to know the answers to any of them.  Even though I find the subject intriguing, I must confess that I have not properly studied/researched this topic before.  I would be curious, however, to hear what you [or anyone else] have to say.

 

Thanks for acknowledging my comment.

Edited January 31, 2013 by brazilianbuddy

[BuddingScholar]

It's an interesting point you make here...

I have a different experience regarding "El Prado" in Madrid...

 

There were a lot of people, taking pictures of themselves in front of the paintings of Goya or Velazquez, Greco and Bosch...

but also a lot of people where talking about the paintings, really engaging in discussions, from teenagers to couples,

to families... it was really a nice experience, because after going to "Reina Sofia" full of people taking weird photos

of themselves in front of the Guernica, seeing the overall behavior of the visitants of "El Prado" was so refreshing...

 

I attributed to the curatorial approach of "El Prado" and the strong teaching emphasis of the Museum, but I've never been

in Paris, so I can't really compare it..

 

(I just got my first acceptance... yay!)

 

Congratulations on your first acceptance.  That's truly awesome!

[runaway]

asdf123: I didn't mean to sound facile and oversimplify what, in fact, is a much richer and deeply layered subject.  It was certainly not my intention to propose any sort of dialectical resolution either.  I understand that my rhetoric sounded very much like "half-empty-glass," and I guess, in hindsight, it was supposed to sound that way, since I merely meant to express my feelings and wondered if anyone felt the same way.  Perhaps I am a romantic, or simply crazy, but museums and libraries are sort of sanctuaries for me.  I think that everyone should genuflect at the entrance of these places, and immediately adopt a posture of absolute respect, religiosity and devotion to the content inside.  Thus, anytime I am confronted with the opposite I am often dismayed and annoyed.  --- honestly, just a personal thing ---  I am constantly criticizing myself for being so uptight and tough on people, but believe me, I am equally harder, in fact, a lot harder on myself.

 

I'd be lying if I said I haven't grumbled at tourists getting in my way at museums, sometimes, brazilianbuddy, but I have to say I disagree with you completely.

 

One of my favorite fun facts about the Met is that, in the early 20th century, you could not visit wearing overalls. This sounds funny but was actually a strictly class-based policy. I think we've come a long way, though we still have a long way to go. Your vision of museums is completely counter to my own, which is first and foremost about access.

 

As for your concept of museums as a place of worship, it made me think of this passage from Berger's Ways of Seeing:

 

 

(As a side note, I'd love to see updated, 2013 versions of similar data.) The more the museum is treated like a place of worship, the more likely it is that only the ordained attend. Is that really what you want?

[barbrastreisandy]

Dear UPenn admit,

 

Are you somewhere here? Who's your advisor?

 

 

[fullofpink]

I'd be lying if I said I haven't grumbled at tourists getting in my way at museums, sometimes, brazilianbuddy, but I have to say I disagree with you completely.

 

One of my favorite fun facts about the Met is that, in the early 20th century, you could not visit wearing overalls. This sounds funny but was actually a strictly class-based policy. I think we've come a long way, though we still have a long way to go. Your vision of museums is completely counter to my own, which is first and foremost about access.

 

 

Tourists in the museum is a great thing - I love it! 

 

Also, re: the Met, the overall policy wasn't just class-warfare, it was also an instruction exercise. Half the Met's board was against opening to the public, so the half that wanted to open its door saw this policy as a happy medium - it was in their best interest to "educate" the masses not only in art but also in propriety. 

[BuddingScholar]

I'd be lying if I said I haven't grumbled at tourists getting in my way at museums, sometimes, brazilianbuddy, but I have to say I disagree with you completely.

 

One of my favorite fun facts about the Met is that, in the early 20th century, you could not visit wearing overalls. This sounds funny but was actually a strictly class-based policy. I think we've come a long way, though we still have a long way to go. Your vision of museums is completely counter to my own, which is first and foremost about access.

 

As for your concept of museums as a place of worship, it made me think of this passage from Berger's Ways of Seeing:

 

 

(As a side note, I'd love to see updated, 2013 versions of similar data.) The more the museum is treated like a place of worship, the more likely it is that only the ordained attend. Is that really what you want?

 

I think it is a great thing that people go to Museums, and I honestly wish more people went.  I know it sounds contradictory to what I have said before, but my issue has really to do with those (rich or poor, educated or uneducated, well-dressed or not) who are disrespectful of the works and the other patrons there.  In fact, I am a lot more upset with those who are supposedly "educated," and yet, behave inappropriately in these places.  I do believe that there is a proper way of behaving in a museum though.

 

The data you shared is very interesting.  I'd also be curious to see an updated version of it, though I fear it hasn't changed substantially, if at all.  By the way, ooohh noo... I don't want only the "ordained" to be granted access to Museums.  I do think that the "ordained" should work towards getting more converts though, which is why [especially for first timers] the museum experience should be mediated.  Yet, I know how unfeasible and unrealistic my proposal is.  In the end, I think I just have to get over myself and stop being so elitist and uptight. 

 

Let me ask you though, what do you think is the value of spending 3/4 seconds in front of an artwork? If I am not mistaken, this is the amount of time, on average, people spend "appreciating" a work of art in Museums; and that's accounting for those spending an hour/piece.

[Hegel's Bagels]

 

I do believe that there is a proper way of behaving in a museum though.

And I'm guessing this isn't it...(in your opinion at least. I may or may not be on this website)

http://jumpinginartmuseums.blogspot.com/

Edited January 31, 2013 by artofdescribing

[Guest lefilsdhomme]

Now that acceptances have started to trickle in and the flood will come soon I would really like to talk about finances and funding. I'm frankly in the dark about it. I have a laundry list of questions that perhaps some of the more senior members here can speak to.

 

1. I know I have to fill out FAFSA, but when? How do I do so when I don't know where I will be going?

2. (provided one has more than one acceptance) How does one negotiate initial funding offers with universities?

3. When can an incoming graduate student start applying for external fellowships? (provided these fellowships don't replace the university's funding package)

 

Help? o.o

[fullofpink]

Now that acceptances have started to trickle in and the flood will come soon I would really like to talk about finances and funding. I'm frankly in the dark about it. I have a laundry list of questions that perhaps some of the more senior members here can speak to.

 

1. I know I have to fill out FAFSA, but when? How do I do so when I don't know where I will be going?

2. (provided one has more than one acceptance) How does one negotiate initial funding offers with universities?

3. When can an incoming graduate student start applying for external fellowships? (provided these fellowships don't replace the university's funding package)

 

Help? o.o

 

1. You need to first apply for a pin. Since this is your first time applying for one, I'm guessing, they have to snail mail it to you. Expect to receive this in 2-3 weeks. Once you get your pin, you can sign into FAFSA and submit your report. It's only asking you to verify your W-2 information, but if you haven't submitted your income tax return, that's ok - they just need an estimate. They'll confirm the figures once it is finally submitted. 

You can ask for FAFSA profiles from all the schools you apply to. They will send you your estimated family contribution (EFC) which is based on what you have saved up and what you make yearly - which is what FAFSA assumes you should contribute to your studies that year (if you are going to a school that costs 50,000 and you make 100$/month, your EFC might be like $1000, etc. Random and not accurate example). Your SAR (student aid report) will list what they expect your tuition to cost and how much you might expect from the government. 

As an undergraduate, FAFSA is exceptional because of the plethora of need-based grants and work-study opportunities if you qualified. Mostly for grad schools it will be subsidized and unsubsidized loans, but honestly, they are cheaper in APR than private loans, if you need it. 

 

It doesn't hurt to apply. However, the sooner you apply, the more money you get. Really, do it today. 

 

2. I would highly suggest picking up "Getting What you Came For" - there's a good chapter on this. Also, you might want to look at theprofessorisin.com, she talks about how to negotiate these TT tracks and a few other things. I've been using her interview techniques and travel tips. 

 

3. As soon as available. In fact, some scholarships, like the Ford Foundation, you can apply even if you haven't applied yet. The funding is contingent if you get in or not. 

[raisinbrancusi]

FAFSA has been baffling me, in some small way, for a little while. i applied for 2012-13, which i assumed would be what was required for aid for the programs i applied to. but about a week ago i got an email prompting me to submit a form for 2013-14. do i need to fill everything out again and essentially send a second FAFSA to my schools? or does the first suffice? i should probably ask someone from the [real, bureaucratic] powers that be, but i'd love any insight some of you, maybe with a bit more experience or savvy, could share

[Hegel's Bagels]

3. When can an incoming graduate student start applying for external fellowships? (provided these fellowships don't replace the university's funding package)

 

Help? o.o

Fullofpink addressed #1 well and #2 is really something you should discuss with your current adviser. Unless anyone else here has some good advice on that.

For #3: You should absolutely not apply for any external fellowships until you have discussed all the nitty gritty financial details with the department you decide on. Most external fellowships WILL...I REPEAT WILL...cancel your department funding for the year. For many schools, this funding cannot be deferred. It varies from school to school, but in general, expect to apply for external fellowships once your department funding runs out (usually fourth or fifth year). Your department probably does not want you applying anyway for these fellowships until you're at least ABD.

I would definitely advise cornering a couple of the current grad students in your prospective programs to find out the dirt on your department's financing of students. They are not always completely up front in their funding letters. It took me about three to four months into my first semester at my PhD program to totally understand the funding situation.

[fullofpink]

FAFSA has been baffling me, in some small way, for a little while. i applied for 2012-13, which i assumed would be what was required for aid for the programs i applied to. but about a week ago i got an email prompting me to submit a form for 2013-14. do i need to fill everything out again and essentially send a second FAFSA to my schools? or does the first suffice? i should probably ask someone from the [real, bureaucratic] powers that be, but i'd love any insight some of you, maybe with a bit more experience or savvy, could share

 

You must submit a FAFSA for each year you are in school. Your income can easily change from year to year which alters the awards you receive. 

[fullofpink]

Fullofpink addressed #1 well and #2 is really something you should discuss with your current adviser. Unless anyone else here has some good advice on that.

For #3: You should absolutely not apply for any external fellowships until you have discussed all the nitty gritty financial details with the department you decide on. Most external fellowships WILL...I REPEAT WILL...cancel your department funding for the year. For many schools, this funding cannot be deferred. It varies from school to school, but in general, expect to apply for external fellowships once your department funding runs out (usually fourth or fifth year). Your department probably does not want you applying anyway for these fellowships until you're at least ABD.

I would definitely advise cornering a couple of the current grad students in your prospective programs to find out the dirt on your department's financing of students. They are not always completely up front in their funding letters. It took me about three to four months into my first semester at my PhD program to totally understand the funding situation.

 

Yes, listen to this advice. 

 

Also note that some funding packages you receive will only be receive when you are enrolled as a student, once you reach candidacy, sometimes you MUST seek out external funding - it will def. be in your interest to apply then. 

[apotheosis]

Regarding #2:

 

My thesis advisor recently told me about a student of his who applied to grad school in Chinese art history several years ago. She got offers from Princeton, Chicago, and Harvard. My thesis advisor helped her negotiate for more benefits which basically started a bidding war between these rich schools. The student finally decided on Harvard with $10,000 more per year than her initial offer! Ridiculous!

 

So I guess moral of the story is make sure you have a savvy prof to help you thorugh the process. And also that if you're an awesome student in a minority field, you'll be treated like royalty (i.e. above poverty level stipends)!

[kunstgeschichtedude]

ACCEPTED AT MISSOURI-COLUMBIA MA PROGRAM WITH UNIVERSITY FELLOWSHIP NOMINATION AND ASSISTANTSHIP!

[Lamantin]

Congrats! That's great news. 

[BuddingScholar]

ACCEPTED AT MISSOURI-COLUMBIA MA PROGRAM WITH UNIVERSITY FELLOWSHIP NOMINATION AND ASSISTANTSHIP!

Congratulations!!!!!