Deadinthewater Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) The success of others has very little relevance to my own success/failure. So if there are 25 admits to your #1 top-choice school, and you were 26th on the list, you don't think other people's success would be relevant to your (hypothetical) failure? I think it's nice how positive everyone on this forum is, and I intend to be positive as well, but I also don't think anyone here could possibly be 100% happy with an anonymous admit's acceptance to a school where they also applied. Pure and honest 100% neighborly bliss—I mean, I'm not going to decline an offer to any school just so my anonymous brethren can jump in off the waiting list, even if I claim it makes me 100% happy. ETA: I don't know why I'm arguing this because I don't actually care. Edited January 30, 2013 by Deadinthewater Two Espressos and lisajay 2
1Q84 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Honestly, do we really feel good for anonymous admits? Why would we have any reason to sympathize with their good news? Don't we secretly feel envious and angry that it wasn't us being admitted? Let's be real people Don't hate. ProfLorax, obrera, Sursie and 1 other 3 1
practical cat Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 So if there are 25 admits to your #1 top-choice school, and you were 26th on the list, you don't think other people's success would be relevant to your (hypothetical) failure? I think it's nice how positive everyone on this forum is, and I intend to be positive as well, but I also don't think anyone here could possibly be 100% happy with an anonymous admit's acceptance to a school where they also applied. Pure and honest 100% neighborly bliss—I mean, I'm not going to decline an offer to any school just so my anonymous brethren to jump in off the waiting list, even if I claim it makes me 100% happy. ETA: I don't know why I'm arguing this because I don't actually care. It is my responsibility to make sure my application is top 25 material. I don't find it personally productive to root for or count on someone else's failure. Being happy for someone else's success and sacrificing my own for theirs are very different things. One need not be ecstatic or self-sacrificing in order to be happy.
DontHate Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Is it weird that I'm so competitive that even on grad cafe I compete with people in my head for upvotes and page views and star ratings and shit? That's just how I am. Therefore I assume other people are a bit more competitive than they let on. But hey, maybe you guys aren't. Good on ya! lisajay, justkeepswimming, Phil Sparrow and 1 other 2 2
asleepawake Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 If there were 25 spots and I was number 26 I would wish the school had more funding before I'd wish ill of the other applicants. I might hope they turn down their spots, or wish that my application had been stronger or that it had clicked better with the committee, but my regret doesn't fall on those people admitted. I even want you to get in, DontHate!
practical cat Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 The problem with getting up at 6 is that I am out of up votes by noon. Get it, Cady Heron. asleepawake and sebastiansteddy 2
waparys Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 It is my responsibility to make sure my application is top 25 material. I don't find it personally productive to root for or count on someone else's failure. Being happy for someone else's success and sacrificing my own for theirs are very different things. One need not be ecstatic or self-sacrificing in order to be happy. Exactly this. You can't control other people's applications. You can only make yours the best that it can be. If it isn't and that makes you mad at the people who got in, then you're only misdirecting your anger. Yeah you'll feel bad and wish it had been you, but if you're hoping that person gets hit by a bus just so you can move up the list--you have a problem. t1racyjacks and Laokoon 2
slvitale Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Regarding this apparent debate of academic altruism vs self preservation, let me throw this out there: karma! Buddhism says that our actions have consequences; let's assume that "good" actions have good consequences.
Deadinthewater Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I probably won't resort to running anyone over, I'm only saying that a little bitterness (especially in a subjective selection process) makes sense to me. And "calling" everyone in the world stupid won't make you smarter, but if everyone in the world actually is stupid (or if an admissions committee deems them to be stupid), then I think this really does, on an empirical level, make you smarter. On the other hand, I guess you have all proved to me that the world isn't as cynical of a place as I thought, so that's heartening or whatever.
NowMoreSerious Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 It's a dawg eat dawg world. Each acceptance someone else gets is one you didn't get. It's good to be happy, but I'm not sure it's healthy to be 100% happy.The world may be dog eat dog, but that doesn't mean I have to buy into it, and I don't. Even if I am #26 out of 25, that is no reason for me to be angry or envious. I am happy that #25 worked hard and got in, and I see it as an opportunity to try to improve myself and my work. 1Q84 1
DontHate Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 That's not what I'm saying. The point of being competitive isn't wishing other people will fail, it's wanting to be BETTER than other people. That means pushing yourself and feeling badly when you don't measure up. It means striving for excellence and not being satisfied with mediocrity. It means that if someone else gets into a place that you don't get into, you feel envious of them because YOU WANT TO BE BETTER, not because you want them to be worse. I'm pretty sure you have to have that kind of drive to make it in academia. At the very least, it really helps. Troppman and Two Espressos 2
Deadinthewater Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) The world may be dog eat dog, but that doesn't mean I have to buy into it, and I don't. Even if I am #26 out of 25, that is no reason for me to be angry or envious. I am happy that #25 worked hard and got in, and I see it as an opportunity to try to improve myself and my work. I don't know, man. I have a buddy who is a top-ranked chess player. I asked him if, during tournaments, when his opponent loses because he/she makes an absolutely stupid mistake, or because he/she simply runs out of time, does he feel like the win is devalued because it is more of his opponent losing than him winning. He said no, absolutely not, because he has lost enough via his own harebrained mistakes to know that the loss, any loss, is real, and a win, any win is real. Perhaps a loss/win conception of grad school acceptance is not the appropriate way to be thinking about this. But perhaps it is. Once again, I don't really care. And if I don't get in anywhere, I'm not going to blame the people who "outperformed" me. I hope everyone gets into every program they applied to. I hope we all see each other at UC Berkeley next semester! GRAD ACCEPTANCE CLASS OF 2013 LET'S DO THIS SH*T Edited January 30, 2013 by Deadinthewater wreckofthehope and sfh09 1 1
damequixote Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 WOOOOOOTTTTT!!!! I'm in at UW Madison!!!! This is my first acceptance and I really can't contain my happiness. I have no idea how I will resist the urge to cancel my classes and go on with my day! :):):):) ProfLorax, beet-nik, HHEoS and 2 others 5
waparys Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) WOOOOOOTTTTT!!!! I'm in at UW Madison!!!! This is my first acceptance and I really can't contain my happiness. I have no idea how I will resist the urge to cancel my classes and go on with my day! :) :) :) :) Congrats! Go celebrate!! Edit: I didn't apply, but I'm sure the people who did have many questions for you: what's your area of specialty, how did you find out, etc.? Edited January 30, 2013 by waparys
JeremiahParadise Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 WOOOOOOTTTTT!!!! I'm in at UW Madison!!!! This is my first acceptance and I really can't contain my happiness. I have no idea how I will resist the urge to cancel my classes and go on with my day! :):):):) Hey, congrats!! Now, to pry: did you hear from the department (admin, coord, etc) or a POI? And congrats again!
mostlytoasty Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) In at UW-Madison as well! 2 down 12 more to go! 2nd time is a charm! Edited January 30, 2013 by mostlytoasty beet-nik, Conscia Fati and HHEoS 3
asleepawake Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Congrats damequixote and mostlytoasty! Edited January 30, 2013 by asleepawake
damequixote Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Congrats! Go celebrate!! Edit: I didn't apply, but I'm sure the people who did have many questions for you: what's your area of specialty, how did you find out, etc.? Ah, of course! I got a little too excited there. (Also, congrats mostlytoasty! and thanks everybody!). I'm in rhetoric and composition and got an email from the Director or Grad studies. Details on funding and official offer to come soon.
obrera Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Ah, of course! I got a little too excited there. (Also, congrats mostlytoasty! and thanks everybody!). I'm in rhetoric and composition and got an email from the Director or Grad studies. Details on funding and official offer to come soon. Was the email from earlier this morning, or did you just get it?
Swagato Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 It is my responsibility to make sure my application is top 25 material. I don't find it personally productive to root for or count on someone else's failure. Being happy for someone else's success and sacrificing my own for theirs are very different things. One need not be ecstatic or self-sacrificing in order to be happy. Except that you don't, you can never, know who you are up against. Your application may well be "top 25 material"--in a year that you simply get edged out by a particularly good pool of applicants. This is not a process wholly within our control--we can only try and ensure that we're doing our best to fit what (we think) department X may deem worthwhile, while ensuring a natural research fit, etc. If I'm confronted with a situation where I am indeed the 26th person on a list of 25 (absolute) admits, then yes, I will feel rather put out. Conscia Fati 1
Troppman Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) That's not what I'm saying. The point of being competitive isn't wishing other people will fail, it's wanting to be BETTER than other people. That means pushing yourself and feeling badly when you don't measure up. It means striving for excellence and not being satisfied with mediocrity. It means that if someone else gets into a place that you don't get into, you feel envious of them because YOU WANT TO BE BETTER, not because you want them to be worse. I'm pretty sure you have to have that kind of drive to make it in academia. At the very least, it really helps. This. Mechanisms of altruism and aggression are linked to similar narcissistic identification processes. This conversation reminds me of the last piece of pizza dilemma: A:"no, no, you have it, I insist!" B:"Please, it's yours!" A: "ok, thanks!" B: [thinking] "that son of a bitch..." Anyway, congrats to the recent admits. Of course I'm jealous, and of course i'm concurrently happy for you! Edited January 30, 2013 by StephanieDelacour
DontHate Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 If I'm confronted with a situation where I am indeed the 26th person on a list of 25 (absolute) admits, then yes, I will feel rather put out. Maybe girl who wears glasses is an enlightened zen master, incapable of such banal feelings as being "put out" or "envious." Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks! practical cat, Deadinthewater and Troppman 2 1
damequixote Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Was the email from earlier this morning, or did you just get it? Just got it an hour ago.
obrera Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Just got it an hour ago. Congrats. To follow the current conversation in the thread, I am very happy for your success, but also really jealous that I haven't received that email.
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